Very dissapointed with the bus transportation from BWV.

[erikthewise]

Unfortunately our experience was very much like that reported by jennymouse. On our first full day at BCV, we caught a 7:30 bus at BC (for 8:00 early entry at MK) that already had passengers from YC on board. There was a delay in loading the bus, but eventually we were ready to roll with a full bus -- a handful were standing in the aisle. MK here we come!

But it was not to be! The bus continued on to Boardwalk, where a considerable number of passengers were waiting. Clearly they should have had their own bus and ours should have gone directly to MK. Instead we crammed as many of the BW passengers into the aisle as we could. People were holding children on their laps who previously had their own seats, including ours. With the bus stuffed to the gills and everyone uncomfortable, we still left at least half of the BW passengers behind. I thought that BWI and BWV guests must be very disappointed to think that staying at a first-class resort resulted in second-class bus service.

That was the last time we took the bus. From then on we drove our rental car to the parks. I'm in no position to assign blame even if I wanted to, but it seems that this type of experience is not at all unusual at Epcot resorts.

 

[hightown]

Last year was our first experience with Epcot resorts (we always use WDW tranportation). It was a slow time, 11/12-16. Nothing stands out as major time delays but we often stood and it was difficult for my DM (70) to get a seat at times which she really needed. Aside from just expecting to stand, I would take this grouping of bus stops over going from W/L to Ft Wilderness anyday. That was really irritating.

Seems to me like bus sharing between SD, YC, BC, BWI may have been ok at one time but with additions of BCV and BWV maybe it's just too much now and Disney needs to break this down into two permanent groupings, ie SD/BWI and YC/BC.

Sharon

 

[jennymouse]

Originally posted by Chip 'n Dale Express
ARGH! I had a detailed, well thought out, lucid reply all written out. And then the power went out. ARGH! Let me see if I can redo it.

That statement is not quite true... it's complicated to explain, but I will try to explain it the best that I can. It's not so much that a resort pays for a specific number of buses... they pay for a level of service. That level of service allows for shared buses as needed to maximize efficiency.

For morning MOD (Magic On Demand) operations, buses are dispatched in 15 minute intervals along preset routes:

Swan -> Dolphin -> Boardwalk
Yacht -> Beach -> Boardwalk
Swan -> Dolphin -> Yacht -> Beach -> Boardwalk

The demand part comes in when buses start to fill up. When buses start to fill up prematurely, and leave folks behind, that's when the "Cleaner" buses are dispatched. These buses are dispatched along non-standard routes. For example, they could go to the Boardwalk first, and then do Yacht/Beach. Or they could just do the Boardwalk alone.

In order to maximize efficiency and keep our costs down, our goal is to prevent buses from running half empty, when they could be more productive, so to speak.

For example... say there are 20 people waiting for the MK at Yacht, Beach and Boardwalk. Each bus can handle 72 people. It's more cost effective to have one bus handle those 60 people, than having 3 buses handle it.

By having dedicated buses for each of the resorts all of the time, you're going to have buses that run at least half empty all morning.

The bottom line:
Splitting the resorts, and giving them dedicated buses would be 40-60% more expensive, and you'd be running buses at 25-50% of thier capacity.



Okay, so it's not half of what I wrote earlier. But I hope it explains how it all works a bit better.

I'm just now getting back to my post. Tyler, I appreciate you and love you much, but whatever & whoever is doing the bus transportation at the Epcot resorts needs to know...it is NOT working. They can split the hairs however many times they want, do the numbers until they turn green, but the bottom line is still...it is NOT working.

As far as cost effectiveness goes, after what all I witnessed this trip, I will never again worry about Disney making ends meet. I saw Disney close shops in MK at 7pm on a night when the park didn't close until 10pm and there was cheek to cheek people who couldn't ride because of lines and wanted to shop. Pool bars closing at 6pm with the pool full of folks wanting snacks & drinks. I know this statement is off topic, but hey, this is extra income they could've used to run the buses!

Seriously, guests don't want to hear excuses, they want service.



Oh, and no one was rude to the drivers that I saw.

 

[PatriciaH]

Very interesting jennymouse! Any resort we have stayed at so far has had their own bus system (when I stayed at WL in 94 we used a car.) The busses at AKL and CSR are wonderful! We go to dinner/lunch quite often at the Epcot resorts and GF, CR, Poly and I was always shocked at how many people they were squeezing on the busses and leaving behind! This is one of the reasons we have not stayed at any of the Epcot resorts yet.

 

[BCVNovember]

Tyler - When you say a bus is full at 72 people, what does this mean? Are there seats for 72 people, or is it full when the aisle is full of standers from the back to the bus driver?

Thanks!

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by jennymouse
They can split the hairs however many times they want, do the numbers until they turn green, but the bottom line is still...it is NOT working.

It seemed to work today. I was at the Studios this morning, so I did a few runs through the Epcot Resorts. I myself never had a standing load. I did hear a few Signal 72's... but they were responded to quickly.

*shrug*

Originally posted by jennymouse
Seriously, guests don't want to hear excuses, they want service.

I agree with that statement 100%.

 

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by Chip 'n Dale Express
ARGH!. It's not so much that a resort pays for a specific number of buses... they pay for a level of service. That level of service allows for shared buses as needed to maximize efficiency.

.

Do different resorts pay for different level of services? People seem to think the All Stars have the best services and the EPCOT resorts seem to have the most complaints. Are the Allstars paying for BETTER service. Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by BCVNovember
Tyler - When you say a bus is full at 72 people, what does this mean? Are there seats for 72 people, or is it full when the aisle is full of standers from the back to the bus driver?

Thanks!

A 40 foot RTS has approx 45 seats, depending on the wheelchair seat configuration (Newer retrofit lift buses have 41). Figure in approx 27 standees, and you have a realtime count of 67-72 passengers.

A 40 foot Nova LFS (low-floor) bus has 35 seats, and room for 35 to stand. A realtime count of about 70 passengers.

Add in strollers, wheelchairs, and people who won't move back, and the number reduces.

 

[Maxwell]

Far fewer EPCOT resort guests utilize the bus service to MGM. We have the boat and we can walk. The BIG problem is with MK and AK not the Studios.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by Lewisc
Do different resorts pay for different level of services? People seem to think the All Stars have the best services and the EPCOT resorts seem to have the most complaints. Are the Allstars paying for BETTER service. Doesn't make any sense to me.

The All-Stars are not paying for "better" service... they are paying for service that matches the amount of guests they have staying at the resorts.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by Maxwell
Far fewer EPCOT resort guests utilize the bus service to MGM. We have the boat and we can walk. The BIG problem is with MK and AK not the Studios.

Right... *BUT* here's the thing. MOD operation for the Epcot Resorts is based out of the Studios in the morning. So even though the bus is headed to the MK or AK, it's a Zone 4 (Studios) bus.

So this morning, I was based out of the Studios, but I did runs from the Epcot Resorts to MK and BB/AK.

 

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by Chip 'n Dale Express
The All-Stars are not paying for "better" service... they are paying for service that matches the amount of guests they have staying at the resorts.

I didn't phrase my question properly. You stated:

It's not so much that a resort pays for a specific number of buses... they pay for a level of service

DTD hotels used to use Disney buses but swtiched because they wanted to pay less for less service.

Are all Disney resorts paying for the SAME LEVEL OF SERVICE or are some resorts paying more (relative to the number of guests) for better service?

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by Lewisc
DTD hotels used to use Disney buses but swtiched because they wanted to pay less for less service.

Are all Disney resorts paying for the SAME LEVEL OF SERVICE or are some resorts paying more (relative to the number of guests) for better service?

They are paying for the same level of service based on occupancy.

 

[crisi]

The logistics here are facinating.

Tyler, I'd imagine there are days where the bus drivers look at each other for the first MK run and wonder where everyone is. A hotel full of people sleeping in, the early morning folks headed to other parks, and a run on rental cars could make for empty buses. The next morning, it might seem like everyone in the Epcot resort area woke up early with the same plan to get a jump on the MK and leave the car behind.

With a single bus holding only 72 people, it doesn't take a whole lot of people to throw the whole scheme out of whack and make for full buses.

And while you guys can reroute the buses pretty much on the fly, you can only do it if you have buses and drivers that aren't handling guests going to and coming from other destinations.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by crisi
The logistics here are facinating.

Tyler, I'd imagine there are days where the bus drivers look at each other for the first MK run and wonder where everyone is. A hotel full of people sleeping in, the early morning folks headed to other parks, and a run on rental cars could make for empty buses. The next morning, it might seem like everyone in the Epcot resort area woke up early with the same plan to get a jump on the MK and leave the car behind.

With a single bus holding only 72 people, it doesn't take a whole lot of people to throw the whole scheme out of whack and make for full buses.

And while you guys can reroute the buses pretty much on the fly, you can only do it if you have buses and drivers that aren't handling guests going to and coming from other destinations.

Indeed... logisics are fascinating. And a nightmare as well. LOL

Although we can predict traffic flow based on past statistics, there's always that randomness that makes our job tougher. We dispatch buses to cover the anticipated demand. If the actual numbers are greater than our anticipated demand, buses will go signal 72. Thats when the drivers call our dispatchers, and the dispatchers send out additional units. The only problem is that it will take time for those units to actually get from the staging area TO the areas they're needed at. No way to get around it. We can't over-dispatch... if you do that, you end up sending out all your units too quickly, and then you're stuck an hour later, with dispatches to give out, and no buses have returned yet.

 

[jordanyosh]

Thank you Tyler and to all your fellow CMs who do their best to serve the guests in an efficient and friendly manner.

We personally have never had a problem with the bus transportation even at the BWV. We understand the ebbs and flows of the system and have had a few instances where the bus was full and had to wait an additional 15 minutes for the next bus. Oh well.....that's the breaks. It happens with an ever-changing system.

Sorry to all those who have had bad experiences with the system. Hard to shake it off when you've been waiting for a long time.

Thanks again Tyler to you and your fellow drivers.

 

[freediverdude]

I'm sorry, I know this is just my opinion, and I'll probably get flamed to death by a lot of people for this, but..... the people who stay at those Epcot resorts and monorail resorts are paying QUITE a bit more there than at the other resorts, and should get better service because of that. Most of those guests (myself not included, because I cannot afford it, the Beach Club Villas in my signature is by renting points) are paying $300 to $400 per night or even more for their rooms, and I think those people at least deserve better than being crammed onto a bus like sardines, and/or having to wait 15 more minutes for another bus, and/or making 3 or 4 more stops before continuing on to the theme park. If you want to argue that I shouldn't get that kind of service because I didn't pay that much, then fine I'll agree to get on a crowded bus myself, but for those people who are paying those megabucks, that isn't acceptable. For a $400 a night hotel room, someone should expect to get a seat pretty much every time on one of those buses, and it should go directly to the theme park- in other words, dedicated buses. Those people are paying WAY more than the All-Stars, and so shouldn't get the same service based on the number of guests, they should get much more. I guess people are going to argue that they're paying more for the nicer hotel and location, and that's true, but the nicer services and amenities should extend to the buses as well. Who wants to walk out of their wonderful relaxing room at the wonderful relaxing resort, to face this packed bus type situation, and have to decide whether to try to hold on for dear life smelling the next person's armpit, or wait for the next packed bus. I'm not saying every time the bus goes around it's like that, but it shouldn't ever be like that at those resorts- it's not good guest experience for the resorts claiming to be the ultimate in Disney elegance and service. There, I've said my peace....flame away I guess...

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by freediverdude
I'm sorry, I know this is just my opinion, and I'll probably get flamed to death by a lot of people for this, but..... the people who stay at those Epcot resorts and monorail resorts are paying QUITE a bit more there than at the other resorts, and should get better service because of that. Most of those guests (myself not included, because I cannot afford it, the Beach Club Villas in my signature is by renting points) are paying $300 to $400 per night or even more for their rooms, and I think those people at least deserve better than being crammed onto a bus like sardines, and/or having to wait 15 more minutes for another bus, and/or making 3 or 4 more stops before continuing on to the theme park. If you want to argue that I shouldn't get that kind of service because I didn't pay that much, then fine I'll agree to get on a crowded bus myself, but for those people who are paying those megabucks, that isn't acceptable. For a $400 a night hotel room, someone should expect to get a seat pretty much every time on one of those buses, and it should go directly to the theme park- in other words, dedicated buses. Those people are paying WAY more than the All-Stars, and so shouldn't get the same service based on the number of guests, they should get much more. I guess people are going to argue that they're paying more for the nicer hotel and location, and that's true, but the nicer services and amenities should extend to the buses as well. Who wants to walk out of their wonderful relaxing room at the wonderful relaxing resort, to face this packed bus type situation, and have to decide whether to try to hold on for dear life smelling the next person's armpit, or wait for the next packed bus. I'm not saying every time the bus goes around it's like that, but it shouldn't ever be like that at those resorts- it's not good guest experience for the resorts claiming to be the ultimate in Disney elegance and service. There, I've said my peace....flame away I guess...

No flaming. I actually agree with you.

How many times have we read or heard that the monorail resorts are expensive because they are so convenient to the monorail (and MK too, of course)??

 

[freediverdude]

Yes, Beattyfamily, thank you for that extra bolster to my argument!

 

[~Sparkly~Zoe]

I too agree with you! I think we had better bus service at CS than we did at the BWI! WE didn't share it with any other resorts. The deluxes share it with a lot! Swan,Dolphin, YC/BC and the BWI!