Verizon striking

[luvestodizz]

This thread really highlights the ME mentality that is so prevalent today. No one cares what is happening to others unless it happens to them too. Union, non union, public, or private- a job in America should continue to mean good wages and benefits. How can a country sustain itself with a disappearing middle class? Do you think 45,000 unemployed workers, or underemployed workers will contribute to the economy? Or will it mean more people depending on social programs, an increase in bankruptcies, foreclosures, all the good stuff that is killing our economy? Will the top tier money makers increase their tax contributions so education and public health programs can be funded? I don't think so. Our society will become more polarized with the rich and then the poor. Those with children and grandchildren think what their future will look like.
They can't count on working for an auto maker, or a utility company, or even the USPS. As a matter of fact, jobs such as laborers, landscapers, painters, etc will be grabbed by the illegals, as they are being done now. What will be left- outsourcing themselves to the Phillipines or Guatamala and send the measly paycheck back home to the good old USA? Gee- I wonder if the earnings will be tax free then?
All I have left to say is fight for your standard of living now while we still have a chance.

 

[sam_gordon]

1- Vz was matching our 401k to 6% and now they want to stop!
2-The pension does not increase laterally. You get virtually nothing until 25 years and then it’s still low. It increases exponentially in the last 5 years.
3-Vz employees get sick days as needed. It sounds like a lot, but we also work dangerous jobs and do get hurt and are exposed to illness. We did not put that one in place, the company did.
4-We have 11 holidays and they want to drop us to 8
5-My understanding is that they want us to pay up to $600 a month for an inferior health coverage plan than we have now, which we do not pay into.
6-Of course the union put up many counter offers. Anyone who is naive enough to believe that the big bad union is trying to bully the poor innocent company might want to do a little research before insulting the 45k middle class workers who are not exactly on the high end of the financial spectrum to begin with, and who are just trying to hold on to what they have.

And to answer your question, I am not actually part of this board, my wife is. She told me about this thread and I wanted to read it for myself. I skimmed through, read a few views, and appreciated the support from some, was disappointed by some, and was out right offended by several. A friend of mine emailed this letter to me, and since I felt that it was written better than I probably could have done, I figured that I would post it to answer the many questions that I feel are far too personal, completely unsympathetic, and many offensive.

Thank you.
As I said, someone also sent me answers via PM. It's funny, but the answers aren't the same between what you posted and what was sent to me.

Oh, and BTW, on 'sick days'... if you get injured or sick because of your job, you should be covered under workmans comp, NOT 'sick time'. My understanding of sick time is if you get a cold or flu, stomach virus, etc and can't go into work.

I also suggest finding out exactly what health care premiums they want you to pay. I have a hard time believing the 'up to $600/month'. Also, what about the health plan is "inferior"? I'm guessing you've gotten those 'facts' from your union leaders (after all, who else would you get them from), but they just don't sound right. 'Trust but verify'.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

This thread really highlights the ME mentality that is so prevalent today. No one cares what is happening to others unless it happens to them too. Union, non union, public, or private- a job in America should continue to mean good wages and benefits. How can a country sustain itself with a disappearing middle class? Do you think 45,000 unemployed workers, or underemployed workers will contribute to the economy? Or will it mean more people depending on social programs, an increase in bankruptcies, foreclosures, all the good stuff that is killing our economy? Will the top tier money makers increase their tax contributions so education and public health programs can be funded? I don't think so. Our society will become more polarized with the rich and then the poor. Those with children and grandchildren think what their future will look like.
They can't count on working for an auto maker, or a utility company, or even the USPS. As a matter of fact, jobs such as laborers, landscapers, painters, etc will be grabbed by the illegals, as they are being done now. What will be left- outsourcing themselves to the Phillipines or Guatamala and send the measly paycheck back home to the good old USA? Gee- I wonder if the earnings will be tax free then?
All I have left to say is fight for your standard of living now while we still have a chance.

Exactly.

 

[lisaross]

This thread really highlights the ME mentality that is so prevalent today. No one cares what is happening to others unless it happens to them too. Union, non union, public, or private- a job in America should continue to mean good wages and benefits. How can a country sustain itself with a disappearing middle class? Do you think 45,000 unemployed workers, or underemployed workers will contribute to the economy? Or will it mean more people depending on social programs, an increase in bankruptcies, foreclosures, all the good stuff that is killing our economy? Will the top tier money makers increase their tax contributions so education and public health programs can be funded? I don't think so. Our society will become more polarized with the rich and then the poor. Those with children and grandchildren think what their future will look like.
They can't count on working for an auto maker, or a utility company, or even the USPS. As a matter of fact, jobs such as laborers, landscapers, painters, etc will be grabbed by the illegals, as they are being done now. What will be left- outsourcing themselves to the Phillipines or Guatamala and send the measly paycheck back home to the good old USA? Gee- I wonder if the earnings will be tax free then?
All I have left to say is fight for your standard of living now while we still have a chance.

Very nicely said.

 

[sam_gordon]

I don't understand why people who might not be happy with their situations actually wish other people's situations to worsen. I teach my kids, my scout den, and my kid's soccer team to always be happy for other people, and never stand in the way of other people's happiness or glory. Anyone who does... let's just say that my opinion of them as a person should be left unsaid. It makes me sad.

Can you please explain your thoughts to what I bolded? I don't think anyone WISHES others suffer. I think it's more "that's a shame." To me, there's a big difference between the two.

 

[lisaross]

Thank you.
As I said, someone also sent me answers via PM. It's funny, but the answers aren't the same between what you posted and what was sent to me.

Oh, and BTW, on 'sick days'... if you get injured or sick because of your job, you should be covered under workmans comp, NOT 'sick time'. My understanding of sick time is if you get a cold or flu, stomach virus, etc and can't go into work.

I also suggest finding out exactly what health care premiums they want you to pay. I have a hard time believing the 'up to $600/month'. Also, what about the health plan is "inferior"? I'm guessing you've gotten those 'facts' from your union leaders (after all, who else would you get them from), but they just don't sound right. 'Trust but verify'.

What the company was initially asking for was $150 a week, that adds up to $600 a month. If the union, didn't object, that's what it would be. Inferior health coverage means higher deductables, and copays.

Although workman's comp does come into play, very often you don't want to take that route. Although it's illegal to penelize anyone for getting hurt or sick, the company has subtle ways of doing it.

I am not saying that a union is always necessary, I am saying that sometimes it is. And in this particular case, it would be nice to know that the American public would be on our side, and not want to see us give up our standard of living simply because it's us and not them. Someone complained about our customer service. Do you expect it to get better with someone from India promising that an untrained contractor with no promise of a future will give you better service? The contractor will have no benefits, and therefore be too cautious to do their job adequately, and then sue the CUSTOMER if they get hurt.

 

[lisaross]

Can you please explain your thoughts to what I bolded? I don't think anyone WISHES others suffer. I think it's more "that's a shame." To me, there's a big difference between the two.

I have read quote after quote that unfortunate people have lost their jobs, or they make less than us, or they don't have quite as many benefits as us. I feel bad for them and wish that they could do better. I don't feel that people who are more successful than me should do worse, or lose what they have because they have more than me. That’s both small minded and selfish. Several posts have said that I should take the extreme decline in my income and time off and thank the company for doing it simply because I have a job. HOW PATHETIC! I am a hard working American, I make a decent living and have an awesome life. I help other people whenever I can. I can’t understand that lowly defeatist attitude that is bringing this country down.

 

[sam_gordon]

What the company was initially asking for was $150 a week, that adds up to $600 a month. If the union, didn't object, that's what it would be. Inferior health coverage means higher deductables, and copays.

Just curious... I don't know if you get paid per week or biweekly, but is it possible the $150/week is per paycheck? $300 a month is more reasonable to me (I pay ~$200/month for a family plan).

Although workman's comp does come into play, very often you don't want to take that route. Although it's illegal to penelize anyone for getting hurt or sick, the company has subtle ways of doing it.

THIS is where a union should come into play.

I am not saying that a union is always necessary, I am saying that sometimes it is. And in this particular case, it would be nice to know that the American public would be on our side, and not want to see us give up our standard of living simply because it's us and not them. Someone complained about our customer service. Do you expect it to get better with someone from India promising that an untrained contractor with no promise of a future will give you better service? The contractor will have no benefits, and therefore be too cautious to do their job adequately, and then sue the CUSTOMER if they get hurt.

The problem, IMO, is the way the union has presented their case. I, for one, don't automatically side with someone just because they are 'workers' and not 'management' for example. Give us some facts (here's a hint: saying simply "we want what we've always gotten" isn't the kind of fact I'm looking for) and you might get some more people on your side. For example... for the first 20+ pages of this thread it was "VZ wants to freeze our pensions!" NOW it comes out that the company, while offering a 401K, won't provide any kind of match. It was "VZ wants us to pay a portion of our healthcare", now it's "It will cost us $600 a month". Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

I still go back to though, that these are all BENEFITS. Does it suck that VZ (or any company) wants to cut back on benefits? Yes. If you weren't in a union you would have the option of finding a new job (do you have that option while a union member?). Unfortunately, at this point in time, companies do have more "power" when it comes to jobs. I don't know any way around that.

 

[sam_gordon]

I have read quote after quote that unfortunate people have lost their jobs, or they make less than us, or they don't have quite as many benefits as us. I feel bad for them and wish that they could do better. I don't feel that people who are more successful than me should do worse, or lose what they have because they have more than me. That’s both small minded and selfish. Several posts have said that I should take the extreme decline in my income and time off and thank the company for doing it simply because I have a job. HOW PATHETIC! I am a hard working American, I make a decent living and have an awesome life. I help other people whenever I can. I can’t understand that lowly defeatist attitude that is bringing this country down.

It may not have been you, but union workers have said the CEO should cut his pay, that he gets paid too much.

Personally, I have not read that you should just take whatever the company offers you. I feel it's more because the generalizations handed out didn't sound as bad as union members were trying to make them sound.

 

[undertheradar]

Again there is conflicting information posted by the same posters. Is it 2 holidays or 3 that are being eliminated? Is it $100.00 per month($1200.00 per year), $3000.00 per year, $4500.00 per year, or $600.00 per month($7200.00 per year) for medical premiums? Perhaps the differences are due to 2 different union contracts involved? The new revelation that the 401K 6% match, not mentioned in the over 20+ pages of this thread(or I missed it), being either eliminated or dropped. That pensions take 20 - 25 years to get and are very low, only gaining value in the final 5 years. If the pension is so low, what is the purpose of fighting for it? As for inferior medical, what plan do you all have and what out of pocket costs make it so inferior? You would be surprised at how many plans have in-network deductibles and co-pays, seperate out of network deductibles and co-pays, in addition to annual deductibles before coverage kicks in. As for the worries of personal info, your unions have the earnings range of the striking employees posted on union websites.

 

[NMW]

This is exactly how it is! It truly is survival mode right now with jobs and the economy. I have never been a union member, nor do I desire to. I'd be in serious trouble if I was. Because when push comes to shove...I would NEVER choose to let my family starve just to stay in the brother/sisterhood and walk the picket lines. Forget that. My FAMILY comes first.

The union people just come across as so "entitled". Like someone "owes" them this job...because they "fought for it". I don't consider extortion fighting for anything. The mentality appears to be "give me my job or we all walk"...and if YOU won't pay me, then I'm going to file for unemployment, and if THAT doesn't work...I'll go file for welfare because SOMEONE needs to pay me because I used to work. Ignore the fact that I walked off the job with thousands of my friends. That's irrelevant, pay me because I can't feed my family.

I know you are saying that you would cross the picket line for your family and that is great. However, you may not realize that after the strike is over the union can and most certainly WILL come after you for the money that you made while you crossed?? I worked for Verizon in PA and in NJ. I saw them do this to a woman that had crossed the picket lines. A widow with 3 kids no less. If you sign that union card and cross the picket lines, the CWA will come after you for the money. She was losing her house because of the union. It wasn't the company doing this to her, it was the CWA. I had only been working there 2 weeks when I heard about this. I had already signed the card before finding out about this. I was horrified.

I quit Verizon when I moved to another state. Six month later I got hired by Verizon in my new state. This time when the union steward came into our training class with her little union cards I told her "NO WAY" and why. I still had dues deducted from my pay because it is a closed shop, but I was not a union member. I still think about what the union did to that poor woman and her children all those years ago.

So, if they signed their union card, they may not be able to keep the money they earned if they cross.

 

[ccgirl]

I don't understand why people who might not be happy with their situations actually wish other people's situations to worsen. I teach my kids, my scout den, and my kid's soccer team to always be happy for other people, and never stand in the way of other people's happiness or glory. Anyone who does... let's just say that my opinion of them as a person should be left unsaid. It makes me sad.

I am not wishing other people's situations to worsen at all. What I am "hoping" is that the price of healthcare etc is rising and at some point, employees should contribute. Why should the employer's keep taking the hit on these rising costs all the while giving the employees a raise year after year despite poor performance? I think you may have misread my post. I am not unhappy with my situation at all. I think I receive a very fair salary and compensation package for what I do. I am happy for other people and I don't think I'm standing in the way of other people's happiness or glory. Just because I don't agree with the union demands doesn't mean I don't want you happy. Sorry, but I think people should get raises based on performance. I think that employees should contribute something to their healthcare. I don't see anything wrong with companies decreasing their match in a 401K. Nor, do I see 8 holidays as opposed to 11 a travesty. What I see is a union saying, I don't care if the economy is tanking, I don't care if all these benefits cost my employer more and more year after year. I want what I have always gotten, I don't want to make concessions and that's that.

 

[sam_gordon]

I am not wishing other people's situations to worsen at all. What I am "hoping" is that the price of healthcare etc is rising and at some point, employees should contribute. Why should the employer's keep taking the hit on these rising costs all the while giving the employees a raise year after year despite poor performance? I think you may have misread my post. I am not unhappy with my situation at all. I think I receive a very fair salary and compensation package for what I do. I am happy for other people and I don't think I'm standing in the way of other people's happiness or glory. Just because I don't agree with the union demands doesn't mean I don't want you happy. Sorry, but I think people should get raises based on performance. I think that employees should contribute something to their healthcare. I don't see anything wrong with companies decreasing their match in a 401K. Nor, do I see 8 holidays as opposed to 11 a travesty. What I see is a union saying, I don't care if the economy is tanking, I don't care if all these benefits cost my employer more and more year after year. I want what I have always gotten, I don't want to make concessions and that's that.

Well said!

 

[ilovemk76]

I don't understand why people who might not be happy with their situations actually wish other people's situations to worsen. I teach my kids, my scout den, and my kid's soccer team to always be happy for other people, and never stand in the way of other people's happiness or glory. Anyone who does... let's just say that my opinion of them as a person should be left unsaid. It makes me sad.

Nobody is doing that. Many of us are pointing out the reality. I am far more skilled than a call center person or a lineman. My skill set has been send overseas. As a result I been laid off and had to learn new skills to stay employed. I and others are pointing out that this is reality. We have learned that you have to plan for yourself and not hope for a cradle to grave job anymore. A union cannot keep a job here if the company does not want it to stay here. A union can negotiate with the company to make the costs to the company more inline with what it would be else where. This is what we are pointing out.

When somebody gets a new job or a pay raise I am happy for them. If they were to tell me they will get a pay raise every year, then I will show them how that may not happen. That does not mean I am not happy they got this raise, but that I am pointing out the fallacy in their statement. That is what many are doing here but it seems the Verizon union members have their heads in the sand.

 

[ilovemk76]

What the company was initially asking for was $150 a week, that adds up to $600 a month. If the union, didn't object, that's what it would be. Inferior health coverage means higher deductables, and copays.

Although workman's comp does come into play, very often you don't want to take that route. Although it's illegal to penelize anyone for getting hurt or sick, the company has subtle ways of doing it.

I am not saying that a union is always necessary, I am saying that sometimes it is. And in this particular case, it would be nice to know that the American public would be on our side, and not want to see us give up our standard of living simply because it's us and not them. Someone complained about our customer service. Do you expect it to get better with someone from India promising that an untrained contractor with no promise of a future will give you better service? The contractor will have no benefits, and therefore be too cautious to do their job adequately, and then sue the CUSTOMER if they get hurt.

We have never been a Verizon customer since FIOS is not in our area and when we got our cell phone only AT&T was in our area.

Bold - We were a customer of Comcast (now we have DirecTV). We had them over and over and over again and did they listen to me NO. Finally that conractor with no benefits showed up and they did what we asked and all was well. Those highly skilled Comcast employees with benefits incompetance gave us free cable for more than half a year.

 

[SHAYMARAYSMOM]

My husband ia a Verizon Employee. We are in NYC and he is on strike - not a a good thing - the Company cut talks - not good.....

I am sorry your husband is on strike. Being in a union I feel your pain.

people saying they have seen what they union wants are most likely not telling you the whole truth.
What people need to think about is what happened in the past to make it so workers had to form a union.

 

[NMW]

I would hardly call it a "glorified temp job" when there are people working there with well over 30-40 years of service to the company.

What your friend has "through September or October" IS a temp job. And a lousy one at that, crossing picket lines every day.

And unfortunately for a bunch of the managers, they will essentially be out of a job come October as well. Because you see, right before the "work stoppage" they were told that in October, another big RIF is coming (that's a nice way to say you're fired in VZ speak). Tell them that, then make them work 12 hour days for you, 7 days a week, with no overtime, just some comp time that they'll never get to use cause they'll be out of a job.

Yes, but its not just people crossing the picket lines. Verizon has been training outside vendors for a couple of years now to do residential and business sales rep jobs. There are A LOT of them in states with no strong union presence. My mother, brother and sister-in-law are all upper level management in Verizon. Two of my mom's friends were hired out of retirement JUST to train these outside vendors in prep for this strike.

 

[NMW]

I totally agree that the paid FMLA is abused. But instead of trying to control the people who abuse it constantly,(and it is the same people all the time) the rest of the employees would now suffer instead.

Verizon has created their own problem with the absence issue. I'll give you an example: I am very rarely "out sick". But yet, when I had strep throat, was seen by the dr, and put on antibiotics, and had to send in the paperwork to see if the company would "approve" my absence (meaning it is not "counted against you") they denied it because I did not stay out for more than 3 days! They actually said I would have had to stay out 4 or more.

So, for the conscientious worker, there has been no real incentive to stay out less than 4 days if they want their absence "approved". Completely ridiculous.

I completely agree with you about the FMLA. Some people are major abusers of this benefit. I should clarify that I stopped working for Verizon in 1997, so I really can only speak about my experience prior to that.

When I was sick I came back after one day and the union steward actually told me I was making other union employees look bad and sat there and explained "occurances" to me and how if you are "Out for one, your out for 5" works. I just smiled and nodded. I certainly did not agree with her. Why on earth should someone stay out of work 5 days if they are better after 1? I think that kind of thinking has given all union members a bad rap.

 

[undertheradar]

I am sorry your husband is on strike. Being in a union I feel your pain.

people saying they have seen what they union wants are most likely not telling you the whole truth.
What people need to think about is what happened in the past to make it so workers had to form a union.

Exactly which past are you implying? The recent expired contract past or the roughly 8 decades ago where unions started to gain prominence? These are two very different pasts.

 

[undertheradar]

I completely agree with you about the FMLA. Some people are major abusers of this benefit. I should clarify that I stopped working for Verizon in 1997, so I really can only speak about my experience prior to that.

When I was sick I came back after one day and the union steward actually told me I was making other union employees look bad and sat there and explained "occurances" to me and how if you are "Out for one, your out for 5" works. I just smiled and nodded. I certainly did not agree with her. Why on earth should someone stay out of work 5 days if they are better after 1? I think that kind of thinking has given all union members a bad rap.

It results in employers reducing or eliminating those benefits and priveledges for all, it doesn't just get abused by union employees, non union employees abuse these things as well.