Venting about school policy on Disney trip absences!!!

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Okay back OT for OP post. I live in Texas too. Texas is the worst place to get your kids out of school for a vacation. I refuse to go to Disney at peak crowds and peak heat--get enough of that here in Texas. I have a freshman and a 7th grader, 2 little ones not in school yet. So I just take them and send in an excuse later--they were sick. That way my kids get to make up their work. We have block scheduling in high school. That means 1 day (A) 4 classes and next day B (other 4 classes) so my oldest can only miss up to 4 "A" days and/or 4 "B" days. Its kinda of hard to plan your childrens illness to fall on the correct days. Otherwise they have to make up each 1 1/2 hr class for each day over the 4 they have missed.
I dont mind taking them out for a 2, maybe 3 days max but the school system makes it impossible to miss anymore than that. My kids make good grades and participate in extracurricular activities.
 
Originally posted by Captain Bram


And I really don't see anything credible with the "Disney Is Educational" shtick. PULLLLEASE keep that argument in the recycle bin - we all know you went on a vacation, and your kids were probably not tutored...

But hey, relish in the fact that you likely had a good time!!! So what that your children's princiPAL doesn't approve??? Are you the type who looks for love in all the wrong places??? :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth:

All in fun...

Since I was one who said that Disney World can be educational I'd like to ask (all in fun on my side too Captain Bram)...You don't find Epcot educational? I said WDW CAN be educational not necessarily will be. It depends on what you do. We found both Future World and the World Showcase educational. Our kids loved going to the different countries, meeting cast members from all over the world and talking with them and learning about different cultures.
 
OK, well I am a home school mom want to be but this plan has not been the best one for my family. My DS is in public school, I teach in a private school and I do take my DS out for vacations including week long trips to WDW. We look at the situation each year and like MOST parents try to make the best choices for our son and our family. I still belive that most parents want to do what is best for thier children,

My issue has to do also with WDW being educational. Our family strongly belives that life provides educational experences everyday in everyway.
I have no idea how anyone could ever dispute Epcot and AK being filled with educational exposure. We have learned about dinosaurs, growing food, sea life, birds and many many more things. We will never visit many other countries , but we have a peak at them at WS.We however have also found many learn something times at MK and even MGM. Small world opens the window for great discussions on different countries and traditions, swiss family tree house is a science lesson as DS questions how gravity and water flow works. sure there are lots of just fun stuff and I can't figure out how ToT is educational, but thats ok too. What a sad dull world our children would live in if we limited "educaton" to just "school" whether Home, public or private.

Love your kids, educate your kids and make the decissions that you know are right for your family and them respect others who differ.


Jordan's mom
 
I have to comment on the educational bit because we find WDW VERY educational. We spend 2 days in Epcot and a day and a half to 2 days at AK. Our first trip to Epcot we spent an entire day just in Future World. We had to go back the next day to do the countries! We encourage our kids to do as much hands on as they can and to ask questions. We do research before we go to find out what our children could learn. We prefaced All About Me (is that the name the show on reproduction?) with information on childbirth and reproduction (which my children already know alot about since I volunteer in that field LOL!) We knew that there were lots of other hands on activities. We ask questions after some of the shows and rides (like in the Land and Ellen's Energy, etc.) to see what our kids picked up or what went totally over their heads.

Education/Learning doesn't have to be classroom instruction. Learning happens all the time. I can't tell you the number of "voila moments" that have happened in the middle of the grogery store. "Ah-ha! So that's how precentages work" "Wow, the price of coffee really is effected by rainforest destruction" etc. If you don't believe that your kids are gaining anything from going to Epcot or AK then ask them questions based on the information that YOU heard. I bet they picked up more than you did. And *that* is education! You don't need a chalk board and a handful of useless worksheets to get an education!!!

Yes; I realize that there are probably A LOT of families that go to WDW to ride the rides and see the entertainment. And, hey, that's fine. But please credit that there are still quite a few of us that see WDW as a grand "Field Trip" or Unit Study" So, PULEEEEAAASSSE realize that when some of us say that we go to WDW and our kids have an educational experience, we mean it!

Oh, and Jordan's Mom, ToT is a great place to prove some of Newton's principles of physics. An object in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. What goes up, must come down. LOL!! Go ahead, challenge me a little harder than that! I can even justify RnR ;)

:earsgirl:
 

I am a public school teacher and a mom and a Disney nut. I generally don't respond to posts that I think have wandered far from the subject and that have included personal grudge matches, but some things have been said here that I wish to respond to.
First of all, I believe strongly in the need for public education in America. Democracy requires an educated populace. I choose not to homeschool my child though I am extremely qualified to do so. (I am a Nationally Board Certified teacher with more than 15 years in my field, the field I chose because of my love for children and my love for language.) I have many friends who have chosen to homeschool. I respect their opinions and their choices. I do not deride their abilities or their children's educations.
Far too often, however, I find that the first thing homeschooling parents feel the need to do is deride MY choice (not to mention, my profession). Some of the statements I have heard (about the profession that I have dedicated my life to)? "Public school teachers could care less what happens to their students." "They don't have the foggiest idea of how to teach." "Most teachers in the public schools are just there for the money and the vacations." (That's my personal favorite.)
As I have read through this thread, I have found similar comments, and I have been disturbed. My personal least favorite quote was from the person who questioned a teacher's right to make a decision because, I believe the quote was something like, "Who does she think is paying her salary?" When a doctor makes a recommendation about a patient (who IS, indeed, paying for the services provided), few patients would exclaim, "Who does she think is paying her salary?" and then ignore the doctor. Teachers, principals, and counselors are, for the most part, meticulously trained and spend long days (and sometimes late nights) making painful and difficult decisions. Their decisions should no more be dictated by "the people who are paying their salaries" than a doctor's should be.

The other point that I wished to discuss was the question of whether to take a child out for a trip (to Disney or to anywhere else, for that matter). I don't think that as a teacher I would have any problem with a kindergartener (or first or second grader) taking a week off to go on a family trip -- of any kind. I do not personally take my 2nd grader out of school for trips, but then again, since I am a teacher, I don't go on many trips during the school year. However, I am not sure that I would take a child who is much older than that out for more than a few days. So much goes on in the typical school day. I teach ninth grade English. Last week, we read the entire play, The Miracle Worker, wrote a composition (drafted and redrafted numerous times), discussed the usage of strong verbs and learned how to correct verb tense errors in our own writing. Since we are on a block schedule, my students spent a total of 8 hours in my classroom. I did have one student who was out most of the week with an illness. Her make-up file is quite thick, and she will need to spend a great deal of after school time with just me in order to complete it. (I cannot "send home" the extensive one-on-one time that I spend with my students. I cannot "send home" tests and quizzes. There is much that can be made up at home, but there is still a good deal of material that I must be with my students in order to present.) Then, she will also have to spend time with her other teachers.
Yes, I believe a trip to Disney (or a trip to almost anywhere else in the world) is educational. My son had us take his picture in front of every country in "the World" while we were at Epcot last month. He is now organizing those pictures into a wonderful report that he is doing for his class. (We went during the winter break.) I believe that almost any trip that a child could take would be educational in some way, but I also believe that it is important to consider the individual child. Will the trip be worth the "after trip" experience? (At our school, we have a Saturday school program for students who travel with their parents. Many students beg their parents not to plan trips during the school year so that they will not have to do make up work at Saturday school.) How old is the child? How much material will be covered in the classroom while you are away? And, what is the school's policy?
Sorry for rambling on. This thread struck a nerve, I guess.
 
Originally posted by JulieWent
I Some of the statements I have heard (about the profession that I have dedicated my life to)? "Public school teachers could care less what happens to their students." "They don't have the foggiest idea of how to teach." "Most teachers in the public schools are just there for the money and the vacations." (That's my personal favorite.)

The last one I find funny. I live in Mobile, Alabama. We have made national news lately because not only is our school system going bankrupt, it also has the most failing schools in any one system. We happen to live in one of the only 3 elementary schools that is (barely) passing. Prior to pulling my children out of school (at different years) I volunteered at the school all the time. I knew the teachers and staff. I knew who could teach and who was there to babysit and draw a paycheck. Believe me, there are more in that one school babysitting than teaching. I could go on for hours about how horrid these teachers are. What astounds me is that parents put up with it! My oldest dd had a wonderful Kindie/1st teacher and an excellent 2nd grade teacher. If all teachers taught like they did and understood children like they did then very few people would homeschool for educational reasons. They cared about *every* student. They *loved* teaching.

I will presume by your reaction that you are one that cares about your students and loves teaching. Your students are fortunate and will benefit from it. Unfortunately, not all teachers are like that. I believe strongly in parental accountability. A parent has the responsibility to account for their children. For their health, well-being and education. This means that if a parent decides to take their child out of school for a week (or longer) then the parent needs to be accountable to the school and the teacher to assure that their child does the work requested of the teacher and can keep up with their class. Schools have set these restrictions on vacations because parents aren't being accountable for their children anymore.

More of my 2¢ worth (I think I'm up to a dime by now :p )

:earsgirl:
 
Indeed, CatWho. One of my best friends lives in a district not far from ours that is one of our state's poorest. After struggling with her options for more than a year, she made the decision to homeschool her children. She works constantly, and she does an excellent job.

I believe that there are more teachers who work hard than there are those who "just draw paychecks." But I will not argue that ALL teachers are qualified.

On the same note, I would say that most parents who homeschool do so for good (or at least valid) reasons, but there are a few who do not and who do not do a good job. I believe that when people imply that homeschooled children are not well-educated, they refer to those parents. (One who lives near me has completely neglected her child's math skills. She said, "I just wasn't any good at math, and I'm doing okay." Argggg.)
 
Originally posted by EpcotGal8

Since I was one who said that Disney World can be educational I'd like to ask (all in fun on my side too Captain Bram)...You don't find Epcot educational?

Well, let me put it to you this way, if I was a student and was preparing to take an exam in Linear Equations, and was given the choice to either study the curriculum in Linear Equations or take an "educational" trip to Epcot, you can rest assured that my priorities would make studying the curriculum a nonsequator...

But then, that is me, and you can do whatever you would like. Like I said, they are YOUR kids, and YOU are responsible. Why should you care about anything else???

;)
 
I didn't post my opinion on missing days from school earlier because I usually gt blasted for it. Oh well, since it seems a few that agree with me are here now (which is unusual) I'll say it. The truth is I am against it. I don't balme schools for setting such strick policies. Sure it wouldn't be any trouble to get a week of lesson ready for your kid every other yr or so. However if one kids does it and the school bends over backwards, then next thing you know there will be 5 or 6 kids every yr missing a week or more (yes some here at the DIS brag about taking their kids out of school for 2 - 2 1/2 weeks every yr). This is highly disruptive to the flow of the classroom. Sure your taxes pay that teacher, but they pay for police too. Should you be entitled to an officer gaurding your home 24/7?
Yes disney is educational, and it is still eductional when the kids are not suppose to be in school. Sure family time is important, but it can (usually) be done when your child isn't suppose to be in school. My favorite is "just don't tell the school, then write a note telling the school the child was sick". OK so lets teach our children that fun comes before education and comitment, and tell them it is ok to lie to get away with it.

I don't blame all (or even most) teachers for the problems in our district, or with the problems the schools face in this country. Sure DS had a couple of horrible teacher, he also had several very good ones, and a couple of exceptional ones. The problems in schools are much bigger than who is teaching the classroom. Part of the problem is parents who expect individualized education, a babysitter, a councelor,a nurse etc from a teacher teaching 30 students (or at higher grades, over a hundred students a day). Other problems are county commisions who don't see a link between them passing huge residential developments and the over crowdeing of the schools. I actually had a friend who was told in a board meeting that the schools weren't their concern (the neighborhood was protesting a huge subdivision that was aproved in a district where the shcool was already over capacity). I won't go into the rest of the problems, since they are completely off topic.

JulieWent ... Certainly there are HS parents who will feel the need to deride you as a teacher. However while a minorty of them do so because they truly feel all teachers are evil, many do it as a defense. So often I have been jumped (verbally) by educators for underminding their profession, for thinking I can do 1/2 the job they could etc. It gets to the point where you expect someone in public education (from teachers, to aids, adminstration etc) to jump you, so you jump first.
 
Originally posted by Captain Bram
Originally posted by EpcotGal8



Well, let me put it to you this way, if I was a student and was preparing to take an exam in Linear Equations, and was given the choice to either study the curriculum in Linear Equations or take an "educational" trip to Epcot, you can rest assured that my priorities would make studying the curriculum a nonsequator...

But then, that is me, and you can do whatever you would like. Like I said, they are YOUR kids, and YOU are responsible. Why should you care about anything else???

;)

No offense but I think you may be mistakingly mixing posts that you have read. I DID say I think a trip to WDW has educational value but the rest of your response does not apply to me. My oldest was in the second grade when I took her out for 3 days. I didn't have to worry about her having a test on Linear Equations. I think as students get older, the decision gets harder and therefore we have gone at Spring Break when rates and crowds were high and so last year <gasp> the kids missed the last day of school when their grades and books had already been turned in. They missed watching movies and extra recess. Even their end of school class parties had already been held. When I first replied to this thread people were talking about being worried about taking their children who are in kindergarten and elementary school out of school for a few days. But what I knew and have re-learned from reading these posts which all have valid points is that your are ultimately right. Each of us are responsible for our own kids and WE have to make the decisions we feel best. Whether the issue is to take the kids out of school or not, or homeschool or not, etc. it should be the parents decision. And for the record on the public school vs. homeschool issue....my three children are in public schools and I work in a public school and have always been very happy with our experiences but that's what's right for US. If there were reasons we felt homeschool was necessary I would do it. So I respect those that homeschool your decision to do so.
 
Hi EpcotGal!

I appreciate your level-headed response! Thanks!!:) But the OPer spoke about a 4th Grade child & a Kindergartner . The OPer was challenging the decision from the Principal that her child could not earn any higher grade than a 70, because the Principal considered the absence unexcused (meaning the vacation is NOT VALID for absence), and the OPer thought that was unfair. The OPer THEN went on to say:

Originally posted by walllo:
Maybe I should of explained what all is at Disney...

This is where I took exception. To imply that the Principal can't evaluate whether a vacation is educationally identical to a school's curriculum sounds like a bad case of sour lemons. Take responsibility and accept the principal's decision to NOT accept the Disney Is Educational, Therefore I Am Justified To Remove My Kids From School At Any Time So That I Can Vacation Without Guilt Or Responsibility For My Actions
.

So, I appreciate very much your words (and I really do!) but at the same time, I hear some resistance from the OPer about this issue.

Take the consequences like an adult!!! Your children were not in school for reasons that are not considered lawful (therefore, unexcused) so just accept it. Be a good example for them!

Maybe we should discuss the dilemma in our society how EVERYONE is not responsible for their behavior - this seems to be an early example of it...
 
I live in Texas and formally taught school here. We had a family that had to go to Mexico because of a family emergency. They were told to disenroll the student since the student would be out over 2 weeks or that the family would be turned into the authorities!

My son's school gives us a difficult time when taking students out for any appointment. I even know someone (high school student) that was out for grandmother's funeral and then got mono. She had to do make up time on Saturdays. She had already completed ALL her work. She said they played tic tac to and other games. What a waste.

I have heard that Texas is a nightmare about allowing students to go on any family trips.
 
Try to present to the principal some examples of the educational opportunities at WDW. Maybe your kids could do a journal or a special report that incorporated the trip for extra credit ?
If she is not willing to budge I would talk to the individual teachers about the matter. If worst happens, you might want to tell a fib and have your parents call in sick for the kids. I know lying isn't ethical,blah blah.., but a couple 70's can really kill your child's grade!! JMHO ;)
 
Disnee Dad Says............................. Not gonna take sides here ,it wouldn't be prudent! As far as the kinder goes, how much harm is it to miss three days of coloring and pasteing?
I would take my DD out of school if I needed to for a vacation but it never came up as she goes to year round school. No long summer vacation. She off July, November and March.
Now that she is in seventh grade and taking Algebra, I don't think I would take her out more than a day.
 
Well I guess it is time to say something..... I am very sorry to the orig. poster that you are getting so much greef for taking your kids on a WDW vacation. I guess you will have to let it slide and go anyway! Mabie you can change schools in the fall if you think this will be an every year problem. Well as for the HS V's PS pr PS debate... I do both...... My son is HS 7yo who needed alot of help! The IEP was not suffecent and they were passing him to first grade without even counting to 20 or doing the ABC song!!!! I had to step in. We could not afford private school for all of our kids and the private schools here did not have special ed service. Now on the other hand our 6yo DD is in PS in K. and loves it! She is outgoing and is doing well. I think it has to be done on a Kid by Kid basis. I have a degree but not in ED. I am using a Acc. Corr. and love it. Our son was just tested by the P.school in Oct and has made great progress....I was worried that he was not progressing and was thinking about putting him back in. They ran every test they had on the little guy! we even had PHD's out to the house 3 times! When we pulled him out he was considered PDD and ADHD... The school wanted him on ridlyn ( I took him off the day after we pulled him out). He just got an above av. score on everything but speech! He is doing so great that the teachers could not beleive it!He is not considered ADHD or PDD anymore... They said he did not fit on the spectrum at all! He is going to the school for speech 2 times a week but is HS all the other subjects....I think that all teachers do a great job. I think things are tuff on teachers and schools in general...LOw pay... Hi They have to have kids in school to get the funds to do the job... They have to teach the kids to pass all the stand. tests that they must do well on in order to get funds to make the school run and even get raises. Alot is left out of the tests..... So alot is left out of the cor. I think that everyone must do what they think is best for their family.Most of all I think it is silly to hurt each other when we all are trying to acheive the same end..... Great kids who are smart enuff to be great adults! :D
 
I did the same thing last year, Merryweather's Twin. (Cute name, I resemble that as well LOL!) Anyway, last year I pulled my (then) 3rd grader out because of a poor teacher and the school has a "no change policy" (they actually told me that they believe that all their teachers are equal) I left my (then) kindie in school because she was thriving well and doing so well with the teacher that she had. I pulled her out this year because she got the worse 1st grade teacher ever. Our son will not enter the ps system here. He has mild autism and I have heard too many horror stories of parents dealing with the special needs educators in this county and in our school district.

HSing is a personal decision. If you feel your child is thriving in the school s/he is in then GREAT, but if not then, fortunately, we have the option of changing that. Whether it is changing schools or homeschooling.

:earsgirl:
 
Wow, what a long thread. I was considering taking my DD out of Kindergarten for a few days but she didn't want to miss a single day. Even for WDW. She loves school so although I would love to go in Feb. I will take her over Spring Break in March. I hope it won't be too crowded but at least we'll be there. If my dd would have felt good about missing a few days then I would have done it. But I don't want to make her nervous about our trip and missing anything while we're gone.
 
PS

My dd went to private school for the 1st 6 weeks of school, I took her out because it costs soooooo much and then I homeschooled her until the public school in our area opened up a space after the Christmas Break. She would have had to go to another nearby public school and I checked it out 3 times and didn't like the depressing atmosphere. The first day after the holidays, I called the school I wanted her to go to and there was an opening. She was sooooo excited and loves the truely Kindergarten atmosphere that her wonderful teacher creates. The private school also took the Kinder part away and focused too much on academics. Anyway, my point being, everybody has different reasons for doing what they do with their children. Not all schools within a public school system are equal and not all teachers in the one school are good/bad. I taught for 6 years in public schools and sometimes I wouldn't want my dd in my class because it is just so hard to deal with 22 to 28 students and meet all their individual needs.
I am rambling and I hope everyone goes to WDW when they want to and not worry about what another family would do.
WDW is my favorite place on Earth!:Pinkbounc
 
We too have had a problem with our kid's principal. We took our boys out of first grade for a family vacation to Disney. It's "unexcused." Luckily they have a really cool teacher and she worked around the rules a little so their grades were not affected.

I don't understand it. Family time is the most important thing in a child's life. Period.

We will continue to take our kids out of school for vacations if we need to. My husband's job makes it very difficult to take off during the Summer and Spring months. As for traveling during the Christmas break - no way. It's twice as expensive and 4 times as crowded.

Thanks for letting me vent too. :D
 
4 yrs ago we took our kids out of school to go to WDW. We didnt have any problems as their teachers said to keep a daily journal. Since that time we have taken them out of school again with no problems.
Do like we did this year, start homeschooling and go whenever you want. That wasnt a serious factor in our decision to homeschool but a fringe benefit, our DS needed one on one attention instead.
 
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