Vent - job postings *UPDATE POST 57*

[disneystacy]

So I went for a interview last night with a Skin Care place (botox, acne treatments etc). So it was a " meet and greet". We had 3 days and 3 times to choose from. So I picked last night.

Anyhoo, get to the "meet and greet" and its just me and one other lady. OK thats strange but whatever. The office manager takes us on a tour of the facility and then speaks to us individually. The other lady went first. She went in the back for maybe 10 min. then I went back. I was in the back for almost a hour, met the owner and some of the other girls. Looks like a good sign.

Then comes the kicker. The manager says they are going to narrow it down to 3 people and then bring them back in for a more formal interview and then they will make there decision. This is for a part time job. Oh and they won't discuss salary or hours until the next interview. WHAT!!!

Why is this stuff such a secret? The owner did say that we get free treatments. Big deal, that doen't mean squat. Show me the money.
I hate having to jump through hoops when you have no idea what you are jumping through hoops for.

 

[twinklebug]

So I went for a interview last night with a Skin Care place (botox, acne treatments etc). So it was a " meet and greet". We had 3 days and 3 times to choose from. So I picked last night.

Anyhoo, get to the "meet and greet" and its just me and one other lady. OK thats strange but whatever. The office manager takes us on a tour of the facility and then speaks to us individually. The other lady went first. She went in the back for maybe 10 min. then I went back. I was in the back for almost a hour, met the owner and some of the other girls. Looks like a good sign.

Then comes the kicker. The manager says they are going to narrow it down to 3 people and then bring them back in for a more formal interview and then they will make there decision. This is for a part time job. Oh and they won't discuss salary or hours until the next interview. WHAT!!!

Why is this stuff such a secret? The owner did say that we get free treatments. Big deal, that doen't mean squat. Show me the money.
I hate having to jump through hoops when you have no idea what you are jumping through hoops for.

Aw, I hate when they run drag-along interviews: The "We're still interviewing and we'll bring back the ones we like" bit has never worked out well for me in the past. Particularly if I'm one of the first interviews (my new opinion is that they're setting up a baseline and looking for others to exceed it).

Call back within the next couple days so they don't forget you and to reiterate your thanks for their time in speaking with you - when social skills are important in the position, showing that you have some is never a mistake.

 

[WDSearcher]

"I have applied for many jobs on Craigslist"

And therein lies your problem. Applying for a job on Craigslist is like trying to buy diamonds at a flea market. They look great until you get them under the microscope. Craigslist is, IMO, the world's lowest common denominator. Better to start online, researching companies you want to work for and checking the listings on their site. You'll get all the info up front and won't waste your time.

 

[Angelhalo]

Yes I have looked other places besides Craigslist, but no one hardly posts the salary range. Crazy.

hang in there OP, I found my job on Craigslist and it definitely pays more than minimum wage. In fact it pays more than my last job and is one of the best jobs I have ever had!!! I had been looking on Monster and Careerbuilder for ages and had come up with nothing, then one day my current job showed up in an ad on CL. I called and we made an appt for that very afternoon, and the next day I got the job.

It's so frustrating, but keep your chin up!

 

[Angelhalo]

Honestly, I would just put "Negotiable" in the salary field. That gives them some room to go higher than the $20 you have listed.

Have you tried using www.dice.com to find a developer's job? I'm not a programmer, but I'm in IT. Dice has a ton of developer jobs listed. While some might be contract jobs, it doesn't hurt to take one of those because you may get hired in the long run by the firm that contracted you.

I've also found that by updating my resume every now and then on Dice, I get calls from recruiters who wouldn't have looked at my resume because it got old online.

DH uses Dice a lot. I'm curious why any programmer would be making only $12-$20 an hour. But, maybe it's different in different areas.

 

[WDSearcher]

So I went for a interview last night with a Skin Care place (botox, acne treatments etc). So it was a " meet and greet". We had 3 days and 3 times to choose from. So I picked last night.

Anyhoo, get to the "meet and greet" and its just me and one other lady. OK thats strange but whatever.

Not really. If there were 3 days and 3 times to choose from, sounds like you just happened to pick the least popular time. There might have been a dozen people at each other meet & greet.

The office manager takes us on a tour of the facility and then speaks to us individually. The other lady went first. She went in the back for maybe 10 min. then I went back. I was in the back for almost a hour, met the owner and some of the other girls. Looks like a good sign.

Then comes the kicker. The manager says they are going to narrow it down to 3 people and then bring them back in for a more formal interview and then they will make there decision. This is for a part time job.

Not unusual, particularly in this job market. Did you expect them to hire you on the spot? I don't think anyone does that any more!

Oh and they won't discuss salary or hours until the next interview. WHAT!!!

Again ... not unusual. I'm sure they're weighing options and checking references and doing all the other stuff that employers do prior to making an offer. This wasn't billed as an interview, after all, it was billed as a "meet & greet". And depending on what they're looking for in the way of skills or attitude or whatever, the salary may change. Someone they like a lot -- with good skills or an attitude that will fit in with the place, may command a higher rate than someone else. Chances are, they don't have a standard rate for the job and will decide based on who they choose.

Why is this stuff such a secret?

It's not. But clearly they weren't going to be making offers at a "meet & greet", and they said that they'd call the top 3 candidates back for full interviews -- interviews that WILL include a salary discussion, as is appropriate. Not sure why this seems so "off" to you.

The owner did say that we get free treatments. Big deal, that doen't mean squat. Show me the money.
I hate having to jump through hoops when you have no idea what you are jumping through hoops for.

Doesn't sound to me like you've "jumped through hoops." You went to an initial meet & greet. What hoops did you jump through? It sounds like money is your primary (and only) motivator right now, so ... don't go to any job interview where you don't know up front at least a ballpark figure of what the job will pay. Then you won't be wasting your time (or the time of potential employers) by applying for or interviewing for a job that won't pay you enough. Some people base their job search on finding a "right fit" job that they will enjoy. Some people try to strike a balance between "great job" and "good pay". Some people only want to see the money. You seem to be a "show me the money" type person first, and a "I hope I really enjoy this job" second. So design your job search that way. If the potential employer won't divulge the starting salary, don't apply. It'll save a lot of frustration.

 

[Angelhalo]

Doesn't sound to me like you've "jumped through hoops." You went to an initial meet & greet. What hoops did you jump through? It sounds like money is your primary (and only) motivator right now, so ... don't go to any job interview where you don't know up front at least a ballpark figure of what the job will pay. Then you won't be wasting your time (or the time of potential employers) by applying for or interviewing for a job that won't pay you enough. Some people base their job search on finding a "right fit" job that they will enjoy. Some people try to strike a balance between "great job" and "good pay". Some people only want to see the money. You seem to be a "show me the money" type person first, and a "I hope I really enjoy this job" second. So design your job search that way. If the potential employer won't divulge the starting salary, don't apply. It'll save a lot of frustration.

That sounds great in theory. The problem is that no one seems to be divulging their pay rates. So the OP keeps having to "jump through hoops" by showing up for multiple interviews with these companies that aren't paying diddly squat. Unfortunately, she doesn't find out they're not paying squat until she's wasted hours of her time going through interviews and meet and greets etc. Her frustration seems pretty understandable to me.

 

[twinklebug]

DH uses Dice a lot. I'm curious why any programmer would be making only $12-$20 an hour. But, maybe it's different in different areas.

RUDisney was replying to my post in which I was speaking of the OP's situation and then compared it to my experience in finding a job as a developer. Somewhere the two got mixed together. As a developer/dba I do make more than the $12-$20 listed, however, there are companies out there who would certainly try to get me for that amt. I do make it clear what ballpark salary I'm looking for right up front so that we don't waste each other's time. Contract is a bit trickier since it pays more on paper, but sometimes less after taxes and benes.

 

[WDSearcher]

That sounds great in theory. The problem is that no one seems to be divulging their pay rates. So the OP keeps having to "jump through hoops" by showing up for multiple interviews with these companies that aren't paying diddly squat. Unfortunately, she doesn't find out they're not paying squat until she's wasted hours of her time going through interviews and meet and greets etc. Her frustration seems pretty understandable to me.

I guess maybe it depends on what it is she wants to do, but every time I've looked for jobs on a company's website or via a job fair or other such method, salary ranges are ALWAYS listed. If she's looking for part-time work or basically "unskilled" work (not to say the OP is unskilled ... I'm talking from a job classification standpoint), then it's highly likely that the salaries offered are either minimum wage or based on experience. And the employers won't know what they're paying until they meet the people who want to work there. They don't want to risk not getting a good employee by stating a salary that is too low when they might just be willing to pay a little more if the right person comes along. But it's the employer's job to get the best possible person for the least possible money. Always has been.

I just don't see how the OP is jumping through hoops. She's job hunting ... it's how it works. Maybe she needs to start every phone call, interview or meeting with, "Will we be discussing salary today? Because if we're not, I cannot continue this interview." That should ease her frustration.

 

[Angelhalo]

RUDisney was replying to my post in which I was speaking of the OP's situation and then compared it to my experience in finding a job as a developer. Somewhere the two got mixed together. As a developer/dba I do make more than the $12-$20 listed, however, there are companies out there who would certainly try to get me for that amt. I do make it clear what ballpark salary I'm looking for right up front so that we don't waste each other's time. Contract is a bit trickier since it pays more on paper, but sometimes less after taxes and benes.

Phew!!! Thank heavens! I was like this poster needs to move STAT! LOL!

I totally hear ya on the lowballers. DH has all kinds of companies try to recruit him for RIDICULOUS pay! I mean just laughable!

 

[bdoyledimou]

speaking of jumping through hoops..

I know a person who started an interview process with a company in September, and is still going through the process.

They have had 4 interviews in person, and two interviews over the phone. They may have two more interviews before an offer is even considered.

The thing is, they love the company, the job is great, and the money is worth their wait. But three months and 6 interviews? THAT is jumping through hoops.

 

[twinklebug]

Phew!!! Thank heavens! I was like this poster needs to move STAT! LOL!

I totally hear ya on the lowballers. DH has all kinds of companies try to recruit him for RIDICULOUS pay! I mean just laughable!

Is he a programmer? I ask becuase more of the large companies are off shoring their work and it's muddying the numbers. For a domestic US employee, the value is 3 to 4 times that of an off shore worker. Reasons are many including better communication, control, education, flexibility and ability to work outside the box. But, still, some companies think they can get a programmer for say 20K becuase "that's what HP or Xerox is doing".

speaking of jumping through hoops..

I know a person who started an interview process with a company in September, and is still going through the process.

They have had 4 interviews in person, and two interviews over the phone. They may have two more interviews before an offer is even considered.

The thing is, they love the company, the job is great, and the money is worth their wait. But three months and 6 interviews? THAT is jumping through hoops.

Despite how much she likes the job and company, I think it's time she lit a fire under them and forces a decision. She should at least call and say I have an offer on the table from another company, but I really want to work with you... If they say she should take the other company's offer that shows they're not serious about her at all. I know it's a lie and I abhor such tactics, but the time they're taking is ridiculous and not healthy for her to hang on like that. (I've been in her shoes twice before... it really kills one's self worth to allow this to go on.)

 

[Angelhalo]

Is he a programmer? I ask becuase more of the large companies are off shoring their work and it's muddying the numbers. For a domestic US employee, the value is 3 to 4 times that of an off shore worker. Reasons are many including better communication, control, education, flexibility and ability to work outside the box. But, still, some companies think they can get a programmer for say 20K becuase "that's what HP or Xerox is doing".

He's a programmer as well as a little bit of database stuff and some team lead experience. Basically he does SQL, C#, asp.net, vb.net, etc.

 

[Angelhalo]

but the time they're taking is ridiculous

Sadly a month or more is fairly standard here especially for larger companies.

 

[twinklebug]

He's a programmer as well as a little bit of database stuff and some team lead experience. Basically he does SQL, C#, asp.net, vb.net, etc.

His experience sounds a bit like me - I was a jack of all trades. The danger here is of being diverted into tech support roles which are underpaid, overworked and more easily outsourced than management or high tech roles. This is the reason why in my last position I chose to specialize and really got into database development & admin.

For IT, Monster's been working well for me and I've been getting calls almost daily. There's no exaggeration in saying finding a new job IS a full time job... plus some. It'll pay off - tell him to stick with it, the perfect company is looking for him, although they might not know it yet

 

[twinklebug]

Sadly a month or more is fairly standard here especially for larger companies.

While companies certainly can pick and choose now days, it's not in their best interest to keep a great candidate hanging on for a month. When they play this game it is usually becuase of one of three things:

• They're looking for something better;
• They're working on the legal paperwork to show they have followed proper procedure to make a case to hire someone who needs a green card sponsor; or
• They just don't have the job req open and are fighting for another person to be added (my division did interviews all the time without corporate OK, only to be shot down when they requested to hire.)

I still believe it's bad for one's mental health to be strung along. I won't subject myself to it anymore. In fact I have one of these type interviews hanging over my left shoulder as I type - all went well, I love the company etc, but they're still interviewing. I've written them off. If they come back to me in time and ask me to re-interview I will of course do so. But if they continue the game I'll lay down my rules. They wouldn't want an indecisive employee and the employee should expect he same from the company.

 

[Hannathy]

Despite how much she likes the job and company, I think it's time she lit a fire under them and forces a decision. She should at least call and say I have an offer on the table from another company, but I really want to work with you... If they say she should take the other company's offer that shows they're not serious about her at all. I know it's a lie and I abhor such tactics, but the time they're taking is ridiculous and not healthy for her to hang on like that. (I've been in her shoes twice before... it really kills one's self worth to allow this to go on.)

Have you been in the job market very recently and I mean within the last year?

I would not be any hurry to "light a fire under them" unless she doesn't mind not getting the job. My DH very recently went back to work and the company he is with took over 4 months from first contact till he was given a written offer. The other company he had an offer with took about the same amount of time. The company he was hired with he had 3 phone interviews, a day long session with interviews by 6 peop0le and was called back in twice. the other company had 1 less phone interview and i believe 1 less go back interview.

His friend who recently went back also had an equal amount of interviews. and an only slightly shorter time period.

That is the way it is now and if you like the job I would not be pushing them unless I could deal with then "no thank you" from them.

 

[Robinrs]

Oh man I feel for you OP. I'm dealing with this as well and CL is the place to go for job listings. No one is filing with the papers anymore since CL is free.

There is a fee to file a job posting on Craigslist. It's how they make money.

 

[Angelhalo]

His experience sounds a bit like me - I was a jack of all trades. The danger here is of being diverted into tech support roles which are underpaid, overworked and more easily outsourced than management or high tech roles. This is the reason why in my last position I chose to specialize and really got into database development & admin.

For IT, Monster's been working well for me and I've been getting calls almost daily. There's no exaggeration in saying finding a new job IS a full time job... plus some. It'll pay off - tell him to stick with it, the perfect company is looking for him, although they might not know it yet

Oh! No no, he has a job right now. Full time! I was just speaking about his experience in the past. he does tend to keep his Dice account updated though because you never know when something bigger and better will come along.

 

[WDSearcher]

The thing is, they love the company, the job is great, and the money is worth their wait. But three months and 6 interviews? THAT is jumping through hoops.

Agreed!