vbs daycare problem no more solved..

[disykat]

That, plus disagreement with the OP = she's a terrible horrible person who shouldn't be watching children.

Like anyone said or even implied it.

Actually, there's only been one poster who was nasty and yes, she definitely implied that the OP was a terrible horrible person. Capitol letters (yelling), eye rolling, accusing her of living in an alternate universe and leaving a two year old without daycare options. I'd say that was very accusatory.

The OP has been very calm. She didn't yage, remove or change posts, or tell anyone they couldn't post. She simply asked the mods to close a thread. Something she is well within her rights to do.

 

[greenpea89]

Unfortunately, the elements involved here are a little difficult to follow but, to me, this situation is slightly different from a nanny or day care provider taking children on an outing, to practices, or on a field trip. In those instances the caregiver is still focused on the child(ren) and they are not working another job (paid or otherwise). It would be like a daycare provider coaching t-ball for her child and two of the four children she cares for while the other two are left at on site daycare.

I don't think the parents would have had a problem if the OP had offered VBS as an option for the children in her care - what they are objecting to is the fact that she is not caring for their child. It also sounds as if the 12 year old isn't usually in her care but the 2 year old is and they obviously were not on board with the situation as they made other arrangements for their 2 year old during the hours the OP was teaching VBS.

OP, you have stated that you charge $2- an hour ($1- per child) and your daily rate is $20- a day. Given the confusing elements of this situation, I would either not charge them if they chose to find alternate care for their 2 year old or I would simply charge them for the actual hours that I cared for their child. I would consider it a lesson learned - not a slippery slope to exceptions to your usual policies. I would probably even put something in writing to give to both of the families you are employed by explaining the exception and outlining your policy going forward at the same time assuring families that you will not be volunteering in this capacity in the future without advance written agreements from the families whose children you care for during the day.

We have a live in nanny so I completely understand the concept of blurred lines but it's very important from this point forward to decide where you want your relationship with this family to go . It sounds as if this situation works well for both of you the majority of the time but this one situation has caused bad feelings on both sides. My advice would be to create clearer boundary lines and put things in writing. This doesn't in any way impede on the friendship that you have established. In fact, it will probably create a more comfortable situation for both of you as things are clear and upfront. Hope this helps.

 

[dicar123]

Well, I only read the thread because I figured there was a great big fight!

My 2 cents...in business, don't do people a favor (undercharging) and then expect that to mean favors in return (go along with VBS plans). It just causes trouble.

Says the mother who accompanies even her 11 YO on school field trips.

 

[Mermaid02]

And, I say bull-malarky....

A week of VBS is not a little trip the library, park, .....
And we are talking about two year old and a preschooler.

I very highly doubt that either of these parents were begging her to sign their kids up for VBS.... It is very clear that this is NOT the case....
In fact, it is very obvious that the opposite is true.

She obviously presented it to the parents as 'what she was wanting to go ahead and do'. (she 'told' them.... she 'reminded' them... etc...)

She left the parents of a two year old seeking other arrangements for their child for the week.....
THIS, SHE NEVER NEVER SHOULD HAVE DONE.

She still expects them to pay....

And, they are making HER mad.

Sometimes I wonder what alternate universe people are living in.

My daycare provider takes 3 weeks off every summer and I still pay her. Her daycare- her rules- if I don't like it I can take my son some place else. The OP gave the parents notice- it was their decision not hers.

 

[jax677]

Exactly what Mermaid02 said. OP, you did everything right and should rightly get paid. I can't understand why at the last minute you should drop everything for them. They had more than enough time to choose, but waited until the last minute to do it. Why should the OP have to lose money because of that? Would this mom have like it if the OP decided not to sit at the last minute? Nope. I think this mom will realize how great she has it once she looks around at other options in daycare.

 

[boltfans]

But the OP isn't changing her plans. The parents told her from the beginning that the 2yo would not be going to VBS, he's staying with his grandparent. So since she knew this from the beginning, why should she expect to get paid now? It's not like they changed their minds at the last minute, their 2yo was never going to VBS with her.

 

[disneyjunkie]

From everything the OP has posted though, it doesn't sound like the parents were EVER okay with having their 2 year old at VBS, which is why they made arrangements for the grandparent to watch her. And for those parents, that's a valid concern. They aren't paying the OP for their child to be watched by strangers in a nursery.

What if the OP were volunteering at a soup kitchen in the city for two hours a day and there was a nursery there to watch kids? Would any parents be okay with that scenario? The principal is the same. The parents are paying the OP for childcare, there will be part of the day the OP isn't actually watching the 2 year old, the church nursery is, and the parents don't want that or want to pay for it.

This whole thing could be flipped around from the parent's perspective:

"We're friends with our childcare provider. She's great and gives us a great rate on childcare. She wanted to volunteer for VBS this year. We're not really comfortable with her leaving her house with our kids but we're getting a good deal and our 12 year old might enjoy it and we said okay. Now we find out our 2 year old will be watched by strangers in a nursery and we're concerned about it and not okay with it. We approached the daycare provider about it and told her we made other arrangements to for daycare for the 2 year old and now she's telling we still have to pay for services we're not going to use while she's volunteering."

OP - no one is saying you are a horrible person or a horrible childcare provider. And I agree with many others that daycare outings are probably nice for the kids as opposed to being stuck in a house all day. But a 2 year old being watched by strangers is a different story. It doesn't matter if they're people from church, it doesn't matter if they've had background checks. To the parents, they're strangers who are watching their child for two hours a day. As a daycare provider and a parent, I'm sure that you can understand their concerns. It's unfair to ask them to pay for that.

And I'm sure that there are childcare providers out there who get taken advantage of every day by parents. No doubt it's a hard and thankless job. But it is still a job that you are being paid to do. The parents are still the customers (at whatever price YOU agreed to) and there is a level of service that is (or should be) agreed upon and upheld from the outset. If the level of service changes, then the price should be adjusted.

If they can't agree or compromise then they should part ways and the parents should find daycare services that they are comfortable with and can afford and the OP can fill the spots with people who want the service she provides.

You can't mix business and friendship and have BOTH parties graying those boundaries whenever it becomes convenient for either of them without expecting problems like this to come up.

The OP wants to follow the rule of business when it comes to payment but not when it comes to volunteering during business hours. The parents want the cheaper daycare rate but strict guidelines.

Neither of them can have it both ways.

OP if you are friends with these people you need to ask yourself whether arguing over less than a hundred bucks a week is an argument worth ending a friendship over. They made a mistake here and so did you.

I would be so happy for someone to take my kids to VBS, this was a real treat for my kids growing up, these parents don't know what their kids are missing out on.

How do you know they are missing out? I never heard of attending VBS during the day until I came to the DIS. In my area
VBS is always held at night. Why? Because that's when the kids and parents are free. During the day kids are in camp or attending summer school and parents are working.

I'm sure the OP's church isn't the only one in town offering VBS. For all you know the kids may be attending an evening VBS at another church.

Actually, there's only been one poster who was nasty and yes, she definitely implied that the OP was a terrible horrible person. Capitol letters (yelling), eye rolling, accusing her of living in an alternate universe and leaving a two year old without daycare options. I'd say that was very accusatory.

Then why not just report those posts? Why stop everyone else from discussing the issue?

 

[Mermaid02]

But the OP isn't changing her plans. The parents told her from the beginning that the 2yo would not be going to VBS, he's staying with his grandparent. So since she knew this from the beginning, why should she expect to get paid now? It's not like they changed their minds at the last minute, their 2yo was never going to VBS with her.

If it were me (and I did daycare for a while) I would not expect to be paid when a child isn't there- but it was my "fun" money not our "income" Every daycare I know of- expects to be paid EVERY week (just like I do at my job) even if the kids aren't there. Vacations- holidays- etc.

 

[ajk912]

I have no opinion actually. Didn't even read through the thing. Saw the changed title and saw it wasn't quoted so I did.

I am trying to find the update. Did I miss the update? I think that's a DIS rule, too. You have to come back and either defend yourself again or say that everyone else is right, and you see what they were thinking.

Ugh, I hate when people don't follow the rules. Nine pages and no update. Ugh. What a travesty.

 

[happygirl]

ok first off the original plan was for the 2 yr old to stay at the grandparents while the 12 yr old went to VBS with me. then I would pick up the 2 yr old and leave the 12 yr old and she would spend the rest of the day with grandpa.

Secondly I told them if the 12 yr old wasnt gonna go that we have a clas for 2 and 3 yr olds, with crafts, bible study,recreation, snacks ect.. just like a regular VBS.

Thirdly ALL of the teachers and anyone who works with children at our church has had a extensive background check, we have security procedures, walkie talkie and door alarms. it is a safe place for any child and alot of fun.

the most important thing is I am a great daycare provider and I resent people saying I am not. I didnt ask to be put down and made to look like a horrible person. I am sought after for all the fun things we do.. library outing, museums, swimming ect. I also teach kids using hooked on phonics, flash cards homework help ect. I run my daycare from 6:30-5:30 and everyday I watch the #2 parents later to accomidate her. I run her kids to ball games cause they start before she gets here, I fix them dinner if she is gonna be late and I dont get paid any extra. I do it because I love the kids and what I do. Times are tough right now and i depend on my money so asking for 2 week notice if a parent goes on vacation or in this case decides to get someone to watch them for this week is not uncommon. If I let this parent slide then it will happen again or with another family. I already give her a discount since her pay got cut at work but wont do it again since my kind things come back to bite me in the butt.

My husband said he would watch them tues and friday morning and the dad will be home on monday before he gets called out to take a load up north so it is 2 days they will need to find someone or let them go with me. They will be talking about it and getting back with me but I will charge them full time drop in rates for the 2 days they will be here so I will only lose out on 40 bucks.

Thank you to everyone who stood up for me. This is the kids first summer here and now I have to decide what to do this summer since I will have to stay home. I think I will have them tell me if the decide to keep the kids at home(which happens once a week or so) then I will take the other ones on a field trip that day

Why do you want your own thread closed I don't think anyone is being mean or hateful to you. People just don't agree with you. that is all

 

[Mermaid02]

Why do you want your own thread closed I don't think anyone is being mean or hateful to you. People just don't agree with you. that is all

I agree with her. Her daycare- her rules.

 

[happygirl]

I agree with her. Her daycare- her rules.

That is up to you

 

[Mermaid02]

I just wanted to point out that some people DO agree with her.

I know around here good home daycare is hard to find. NOBODY is going to parent (and daycare is like a temporary parent) your kids EXACTLY like you would- you find someone and then decide if the differences are slight enough for you to live with. If they aren't- you keep looking. It's much easier to find kids to babysit than it is to find someone to babysit on a full time basis.

 

[ajk912]

Happygirl, thanks for quoting the update. I didn't catch it the first time.

OP, it does sound like you are a GREAT daycare provider and really care for the kids, and you really love them. I see that, so I am sure the parents do, too.

BUT..you have to think longterm. Yes, this month may suck losing out on pay. But if the parents are ticked off enough (and I know I would be thinking that) they might take their business elsewhere. So lose out on a week, or risk losing two kids permanently? I know what I would pick.

Yes, it will hurt your budget. But remember, it hurts THEIR budget too, to have to pay YOU no matter what, and have to find (and probably pay) for someone else to watch their kid(s). You aren't the only one affected.

I TOTALLY TOTALLY see how it will hurt your budget. I get that and feel really bad for you. But I think it would mean a LOT as a good faith gesture, and to keep them as happy customers/clients, if you went to them and said, "Hey, I thought about our situation and I want to keep you as happy clients since I love you guys and I love your daughter. If you decide to have someone else watch her on VBS week, I changed my mind and won't charge you after all."

Customer service is really important nowadays, the economy is hurting and that also means that as a daycare provider..you have to be lucky for the kids you have. Look on craigslist, call just about any daycare place. No one is full. I just would hate for you to lose a family over something so petty.

 

[disneyjunkie]

If it were me (and I did daycare for a while) I would not expect to be paid when a child isn't there- but it was my "fun" money not our "income" Every daycare I know of- expects to be paid EVERY week (just like I do at my job) even if the kids aren't there. Vacations- holidays- etc.

It doesn't work that way in NYC city funded day care centers. Parents only pay for the weeks their child attends. If they are only there for one day, they pay for the whole week. If they stay out for the whole week, the parents don't pay.

Starting next fall, the city( Agency for Children Services and the Health Department) will do the same. In the past they paid a set price each month based on the number of children enrolled. Now the monthly payment will be based on attendance.

ACS and the health department also over see home based centers, so I believe they will have to following the payment system.

 

[Mermaid02]

It doesn't work that way in NYC city funded day care centers. Parents only pay for the weeks their child attends. If they are only there for one day, they pay for the whole week. If they stay out for the whole week, the parents don't pay.

Starting next fall, the city( Agency for Children Services and the Health Department) will do the same. In the past they paid a set price each month based on the number of children enrolled. Now the monthly payment will be based on attendance.

ACS and the health department also over see home based centers, so I believe they will have to following the payment system.

Interesting.... Definately a benefit to the parents (or does funded mean the parents don't pay and the state does?)

 

[happygirl]

I just wanted to point out that some people DO agree with her.

I know around here good home daycare is hard to find. NOBODY is going to parent (and daycare is like a temporary parent) your kids EXACTLY like you would- you find someone and then decide if the differences are slight enough for you to live with. If they aren't- you keep looking. It's much easier to find kids to babysit than it is to find someone to babysit on a full time basis.

There are alot of people who agree with her. I just don't see why she wants the thread closed. For me it's not a about parenting exactly like I do, I think when someone pays you to watch there kids that is all you should do. I don't think you should go places run errands. I take my kids to a state licensed daycare. If they are closed for whatever reason we don't pay for that.

 

[Imzadi]

Then why not just report those posts? Why stop everyone else from discussing the issue?

Why do you want your own thread closed I don't think anyone is being mean or hateful to you. People just don't agree with you. that is all

I just wanted to point out that some people DO agree with her.

I think that's why the thread wasn't closed even though the OP requested it. Only one person was allegedly rude. Others just disagreed. That's not enough to close a thread - just because you don't like the way your own thread went.

Heck, if that was the case, none of these threads would get past 5 posts.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Interesting.... Definately a benefit to the parents (or does funded mean the parents don't pay and the state does?)

Both - the city pays not the state

Some families pay market rate which I think is $175.00 per week. Some only pay $5.00 a week and some are free. The city will pay the balance for those who aren't paying market rate.

The city also pays the rent(our building is $500,000.00 per year)utilities, salaries, insurance, supplies and food.

Oh, the fee is a family fee not per child. If your fee is $80.00 per week, you would pay that for 1 child or 5. The fee is the same regardless of age.

This only applies to city funded centers.

 

[justhat]

If it were me (and I did daycare for a while) I would not expect to be paid when a child isn't there- but it was my "fun" money not our "income" Every daycare I know of- expects to be paid EVERY week (just like I do at my job) even if the kids aren't there. Vacations- holidays- etc.

That I get, and I think most people do too. If they just chose not to send their 2yo that week, and she was open, running the normal daycare at home, then they would have to pay. But she, the daycare provider, is choosing to do a personal activity during the hours that she normally watches the kids. When she presented the situation to the parents, she must have given the parents the option of sending the kids or not as the parents of the 2yo opted to leave him home with grandma that week. That was agreed upon when the OP brought up the VBS to the parents, as she said those were the original plans.

I don't know of any daycare that will effectively close for 3 hours a day, for an entire week, but still require the parents to pay their full fee. Actually, I've never heard of one closing at all like that. Field trips? Yes, of course. Activities like the tball mentioned? Great, so long as all the kids are involved. But this is different. It's not like the OP will be sitting and staring at the kids playing tball, or taking them on a guided tour of a museum. She'll be dropping them off at various classrooms, and this isn't really an option for the parents. it's either "send your kid to VBS or find them alternate care." Not like she's just taking the older kids to VBS and staying home with the 2yo who doesn't qualify for any class other than the nursery. He would be babysat by someone else. His parents were aware of this, made alternate plans for him for that week, so why is this an issue now with the OP and expecting payment?


ETA: If they are planning to keep the 2yo home the entire week, but the OP is willing to pick him up after VBS to watch him the rest of the day, then I can see charging a prorated fee in that case. But to charge for the hours that she would not be watching him anyway is what I can't understand.

Just like my kids' daycamp charges a prorated fee for the 4th of July week-they are closed Friday so they don't charge the full week. Because THEY chose to close down. If I pull my kid out a random Friday, I still have to pay for the full week because that is my choice. In this case though, the OP is choosing to effectively shut down her daycare for part of that week, so she needs to incur the lost money, not deflect it onto the parents.