vbs daycare problem no more solved..

[Traveliz]

I only take care of my brothers friends or a few close friends children and have for years (and years).

I do the Bible School thing every year and if fact I teach the 3 year old class and then the next year the 4 year old class so I have "my" kids with me - that way I know what kind of supervision they are getting. Under 3 they go to the nursery -- over they go to their age group.

I am not licensed but am legal. Everyone still pays me the complete amount -as I am still responsible. I am getting them to the activity, to their rooms, and if they would get sick or hurt I would be the one who would be called during that time to check on them or take them home.

That said I have made it very clear from day one of babysitting that we are goers and doers. We have field trip Friday every week in the summer, we have pool passes (if the ages are right for watching etc), and we go and do so if you don't want that type of care for your child you will know I am not the babysitter for you.

Liz

 

[torinsmom]

Ok here is the scoop. I watch 4 daycarekids. 2 sets of siblings

my oldest are 5 and 10
the next set are 2 and 5

well we have had VBS set up for over a month, have asked both sets of parents about going and even told them I would be teaching the 4 and 5 yr old class so I would have 2 out of 4 kids with me plus my own son in my class.

well for the past 2 weeks I have reminding them about it and everything has been fine.....

Today I was talking to my set#2 parents about wether the 2 yr old was going or if they were gonna find someone to watch him so their older duaghter who is 12 could go.. he tells me that he doesnt want me to commute with them and wants me to stay home to watch them

I told him I had to go and that they have known about it for about 6 weeks and said it was fine before I told the people at church I could teach the class. Bear in mind I take the older 2 kids to church on some sunday nights and occasionally meet their mom at her work place if I need to be somewhere or she needs to do something after work.

I also told them that if he decided to get someone to watch them next week he would still have to pay me my fee.. Am I being out of line for telling them that??

I feel like you gave six weeks notice about this plan, and the parents should have told you that it didn't work for them from the get-go. My gut tells me that they found someone to keep their kids for free or cheaper than you that week, and this is their way of getting out of paying you. I don't know if you have any recourse to get your money. Do you have a contract? Did you have them sign something special regarding this "field trip"?(That probably would have been a good idea to cover your bases)

Of course, maybe they are bluffing and think you will back out of teaching VBS if they refuse to let their kids go/pay you.(I wouldn't back down) Maybe they can find someone to keep their kids for the 3 hours of VBS and you can pick them up after that? Then you could charge them for the hours you have them.

If these are friends, as well as clients, you need to sit down with both parents and discuss your policies. If they don't agree, give them few weeks to find another caregiver, find someone else who needs childcare and stick to your policies from day one.

Funny that it is okay if you "commute" with the kids when it is to the parents' benefits(driving them to their mom's work if she has something to do)

BTW, no parent would be telling me what to do at my own home. I kept 1-2 families kids for 5 years. I always did outings to the mall, park, museums, etc. The parents had a copy of my insurance papers, which showed I had a great driving record and they installed car seats in my car to their satisfaction. Do they not take their kids outdoors when it is hot? You have your own child with you, so obviously, you have the common sense to limit the time in the heat, apply sunscreen and also to go out in the morning. Kids need to get sunlight.

Sounds like they need to hire a personal nanny, so they can dictate the rules and regulations they want her to abide by. That's not how it works in daycare homes. It is more of a cooperative effort.

Marsha

 

[Wishing on a star]

Sorry, but while these parents may not have really gotten the message about VBS.... I feel that you are out of line.

It really was up to you to make sure, even in writing, that these parents DID understand.

If you are just now, at the last minute, asking about the two year old (as stated in your original post)..... Then apparently, this whole plan had NOT been okayed.
I think you have been going on wishful thinking. It is obvious that if you knew beforehand that everyone had agreed to this, you wouldn't still be 'asking' these parents at the 12th hour. It is not that they 'changed their mind'... It is that this was never set in stone to begin with.

Not all parents may want their children traveling all around with their sitter. I would expect my son to be in a set, familiar, environment. NO question about it.

I also don't buy the 'but you sometimes drop them off, etc...'. That is like saying just because your children may ride the school bus to and from school or daycare, the school should just be up and going wherever, whenever, with the children. Not appropriate. Schools and daycares know this, and they certainly will not let a child on a bus or in a vehicle unless there is signed permission from the parents.

Not all parents may want their kids to have to participate in VBS, for many many different reasons. That would be my take with my son... especially at two, and even at five. NO question about it.

I think you are out of line about expecting to be paid as well.
This situation is nothing like reserving a slot at a professional day care center. I can tell you that if my center up and told me that they were just choosing to shut down for a week, a week that I had expected them to provide child care.... I would not pay them. NO question about it.
IMHO, the day you said, we will spending a week doing Vacation Bible School... Your childcare shut down.... You changed the rules, the arrangments, and the parents, therefore, are under no obligation to pay.... It is not like the parents chose to not drop their children off because they were going on vacation. (in which case, I can see that you might need to be paid....) But, you notified the parents that you would not be providing the services that they expected.

Your JOB is to provide day care for these children.
I am assuming that these parents work, and depend on you.
NO way should you have accepted this other position, with giving these parents something in writing. Even just a note with all the dates, times, place, etc... And making DOUBLE sure what the arrangements for every one of these four children would be.

In any situation where an employer depends on you, you do not just take a week off for vacation bible school, a mission trip, vacation, or whatever, until you are sure that this time off is approved.

Sorry OP, but being 'friends' with the parents does not erase their needs and expectations regarding child-care for their children.

You should not mix business and pleasure.

 

[luvsmickeymouse]

My last experience with VBS was back when I was 12 so please forgive me if my memory is incorrect or things have changed.

Teachers at VBS are volunteers. They are mostly parents of kids attending or older teens from the church. So the OP does not have another "job" where she is going and getting paid to do something else while she ditches the kids with strangers.

VBS is designed to be a fun summer program for kids with a religious base. There are lots of craft projects, games, etc.

I went to VBS for three years. Those years I was with a babysitter (in home daycare provider) who watched kids ranging from age 2 up to my age (12 that last summer). There were normally 5 of us plus her own child. The babysitter did basically what the OP did. She asked all the parents if it would be okay with them if she taught taht year so all of us kids could attend VBS and participate. It was made clear that she would be driving us there and that she would be working with X age group while the rest of us were on our own age groupings. She let the parents know what the theme was, etc. Even my family which was not religious at all saw this as a good oppurtunity for me to get out and spend time with a wider group of kids and have some fun and a berak from the summer routine.

So long as the OP was clear in the begining about who would be wathcing the kids during VBS, what the content was (religious) and how they were getting there in the first place I cannot see that this is a problem. It is essentially a field trip. It is like if your child's class went to a museum on a field trip and during the trip kids were broken up into small groups for a project of 3 hours and each group had a different leader. Your child's teacher may be leading a different group--but she would be onsight if a problem came up and everyone is having a fun expeince.

As the children regularly attend church services and activities with the OP I do not think there is any reason to say that the parents are worried about the religious aspect as some have pointed out.

OP, next year send home a note with the details before you sign up and have the parents sign a permission slip.

This is how I see it as well. I also feel that you should be paid as well because you gave them plenty of time to decide. I think what I would do is put everything in writing if you aren't doing that already. I went to VBS as a kid, I loved it! My kids went too and they loved it. One more thing, raise your daycare prices, you deserve it and more!

 

[mjkacmom]

My younger kids attend 2 VBS's (around here you don't need to be members of the church, and they cost about $80 a week). However, dd12 and ds11 have never attended - they would rather poke their eyes out than have to go to VBS (and our church only charges for the first 3, so they'd go free). Maybe the 12 year old is refusing?

 

[RN4Babies]

IMO, if the OP wants to operate her daycare by the same "rules" as other daycares, where the parents pay whether your child is there or not, then she needs to be professional, and not schedule herself for volunteer work during the hours she normally takes care of children.

I take my dd8 along to a lot of the volunteer work I do, but I always need to make sure I'm scheduling it around my full time, paying job. That's my first obligation.

I would feel very put-on-the-spot and pressured if I had a sitter who wanted to take my child to VBS. My religious beliefs are very different than most people's, and I wouldn't feel comfortable with my child going to VBS. I really don't think it's fair to make the request in the first place.

 

[Wishing on a star]

IMO, if the OP wants to operate her daycare by the same "rules" as other daycares, where the parents pay whether your child is there or not, then she needs to be professional, and not schedule herself for volunteer work during the hours she normally takes care of children.

WELL SAID!!!!!!!

You said it all in one single sentence.

 

[OceanAnnie]

OP, I think your heart is in the right place. On the surface it looked like a win-win situation. You thought it was something the children would benefit from and it's a chance to get out for the summer. You kept the parents informed. Do you think the parents will change their mind? The bad thing is you are committed now. I hope you can find a satisfactory resolution for all involved.

In the future, I would not have a personal relationship (outside of watching the kids) with clients. Roles and boundaries can get blurry and it can quickly become a mess!

 

[golfgal]

IMO, if the OP wants to operate her daycare by the same "rules" as other daycares, where the parents pay whether your child is there or not, then she needs to be professional, and not schedule herself for volunteer work during the hours she normally takes care of children.

I take my dd8 along to a lot of the volunteer work I do, but I always need to make sure I'm scheduling it around my full time, paying job. That's my first obligation.

I would feel very put-on-the-spot and pressured if I had a sitter who wanted to take my child to VBS. My religious beliefs are very different than most people's, and I wouldn't feel comfortable with my child going to VBS. I really don't think it's fair to make the request in the first place.

I guess I see the OP as being professional. Her job it to take care of the kids, nurture them and basically be a parent to the kids while the kids' parents are working. I volunteered at VBS when my kids were that age, they were not in the same classroom that I was helping in, I took my kids to T-ball, swimming lessons, etc. and if I had to use daycare I would have been THRILLED that my kids were still able to do all of those activities vs being stuck at someone's house or in a day care center for 12 hours/day all summer long. I would see a day care provider as NOT being professional if they did not offer those opportunities to my child. ALL of the day care centers here take field trips, transport the kids to various city activities, sports practices, etc. It is common knowledge that you don't go to the local pools until after 2;30 or so because all of the day cares have their kids there and it is really crowded. How is doing this unprofessional???

 

[MrsPete]

I would feel very put-on-the-spot and pressured if I had a sitter who wanted to take my child to VBS. My religious beliefs are very different than most people's, and I wouldn't feel comfortable with my child going to VBS. I really don't think it's fair to make the request in the first place.

But that's an entirely different story. In this situation, the OP and the parents discussed it ahead of time and everyone was in agreement that VBS was a good idea -- it's just about the money now. If the parents involved were not amenable to visiting a Christian church, then they could've said up front, "Sorry, not for us." But in this situation, it's not about religion.

 

[MrsPete]

That said I have made it very clear from day one of babysitting that we are goers and doers. We have field trip Friday every week in the summer, we have pool passes (if the ages are right for watching etc), and we go and do so if you don't want that type of care for your child you will know I am not the babysitter for you.

When my kids were younger, we had a babysitter who did lots of things like this, and we loved it! They'd go bowling, to the movies, etc. They did trips to the fire department, the post office. I thought it was great for the kids. They didn't do something like this every day -- probably once a week -- but it was a great break from being in the same place everyday, all day.

At-home sitters vary widely, and you have to be sure that you're a goog match for the sitter you find.

I was fortunate to find one who matched my personality well. The only time we ever had a problem was once when she got huffy about me being late to pick up my two girls on a Friday. I paid her for full-time sitting, which was 'til 6:00, and for two whole years I picked my kids up 3:00-3:30 -- it was a good deal for her. My kids were literally never once there until "closing time".

Then one day my grandmother was having surgery and I went after school to see her; I'd told the sitter that I'd be there later than "my nomal" but before 6:00 . . . then when I walked out of the hospital, my car wouldn't start! I called her and told her that I'd have to go back into the hospital to borrow a car from another family member, and that would put me behind -- mainly because I'd have to transfer the car seats. She yelled at me, saying that it was already something like 5:45. I did think that was very unfair. Yeah, I was late -- but it was once . . . after two years of paying on time and picking up early . . . and I really had a broken-down car!

 

[Wishing on a star]

I guess I see the OP as being professional. Her job it to take care of the kids, nurture them and basically be a parent to the kids while the kids' parents are working. I volunteered at VBS when my kids were that age, they were not in the same classroom that I was helping in, I took my kids to T-ball, swimming lessons, etc. and if I had to use daycare I would have been THRILLED that my kids were still able to do all of those activities vs being stuck at someone's house or in a day care center for 12 hours/day all summer long. I would see a day care provider as NOT being professional if they did not offer those opportunities to my child. ALL of the day care centers here take field trips, transport the kids to various city activities, sports practices, etc. It is common knowledge that you don't go to the local pools until after 2;30 or so because all of the day cares have their kids there and it is really crowded. How is doing this unprofessional???

I still see this as apples and oranges....
I do not see the above post as being a valid example or analogy at all.

Enrolling a two year old in a full week vacation bible school is NOT 'a couple hours at the park or the pool'. It just isn't.

We are talking about a two year old. Not a school aged kid in enrolled in a summer program. (which the parents, obviously, sign off on agreement to the activities such as swimming when they go into the situation)

I have seen the daycare groups out during the summer as well... NEVER once have I seen two year olds with them.

While I agree that both the parents and the OP are at fault here, for not having this situation ironed out, in stone, weeks ago.... I fully believe that the OP felt that she was entitled to sign up for this... That the parents almost had to think it was okay.... That it was presented to the parents as 'this is the deal. This is what I am wanting/going to sign up for.' ... NOT, would you like to sign the kids up for VBS. I fully believe that this was not fully agreed to, as the OP started her original post by saying "I asked the parents of the second family about the two year old and the older sibling..."

I believe that there are definitely two sides to this situation.

Are the parents partially at fault... Probably so... But, it takes two to tango.

 

[disykat]

I thought the whole point of putting kids in a small home daycare was exactly so they could have these kinds of experiences? I'm really surprised anyone who would want their children in a more structured enviroment would choose this kind of care for their children.

I do think it's time for a change, but I don't think it's the OP who needs to be making it. She will have tons of people lining up to have this kind of summer experience for their child. I don't think it's really about the VBS. The parent didn't have a problem with the VBS originally. It's about the parent wanting to take their child to a daycare and have them stay there all day. That's not the kind of daycare experience OP is providing. It's no longer a match.

 

[powellrj]

I thought the whole point of putting kids in a small home daycare was exactly so they could have these kinds of experiences? I'm really surprised anyone who would want their children in a more structured enviroment would choose this kind of care for their children.

I do think it's time for a change, but I don't think it's the OP who needs to be making it. She will have tons of people lining up to have this kind of summer experience for their child. I don't think it's really about the VBS. The parent didn't have a problem with the VBS originally. It's about the parent wanting to take their child to a daycare and have them stay there all day. That's not the kind of daycare experience OP is providing. It's no longer a match.

I agree, I loved it when my kids went places with the daycare. My kids went to sports camps and swimming lessons and VBS and all kinds of thing the kids of non working parents do in the summer. I would be thrilled to have a provider who took the time to get them involved in other things.

The only time I ever had a problem was when my oldest DS had a provider that took him on errands and didn't use a car seat. Granted this was in 83 when it wasn't the law in our state, but I still was upset to learn he was out and about without one.

 

[mousey]

Just because someone runs a daycare out of their house doesn't mean they are not professional. My SIL is the most loving daycare provider that I know of that does it out of her house. If I ever needed someone to watch my kids, she would be the one. I can't believe the way some of these parents treat her. Showing up early, late, not showing at all. To me it sounds like the OP gave the families the option of attending VBS with 6 months notice--if the parents didn't want that, the parents should make other arrangements. Why should she give up something she likes doing because someone wants one on one contact with their kid or doesn't want them driving in their car. My daughter had a friend in school who's parents wouldn't let her ride the bus for field trips. Guess who sat in a classroom all day and missed out on the fun??

 

[heartsy77]

I can understand your frustration! I am a fellow provider; I always have a list of cleared substitutes ready for situations like yours. ( Here in NY substitutes have to be cleared through the Office of Children and Family services if you are licensed) I use my mom and DH.

I had a family of JW once that did not want kids to attend VBS, which I totally understood. In your situation if they already agreed than they should pay you!

I know very well how hard it is to become friends with your daycare families.. it is awkward when stuff like this happens!

I have not read all the posts but I know I work really hard, jump through all sorts of hoops to be licensed! Hours of trainings, CPR, meal, activity, and preschool program prep. If that doesn't make me a professional THEN WHAT DOES?

 

[disneyjunkie]

If your child is signed up for pre-school or daycare and you don't take them one day that they are scheduled to be there, you still pay. Just because the OP has the daycare in her home, the rules are the same.

You're right. However, preschool or day care teachers would not be able to volunteer at their church during the hours they are scheduled to work.

It seems that the parents and the OP only want to stick to the preschool/day care rules/expectations that will benefit them.

IMO, if the OP wants to operate her daycare by the same "rules" as other daycares, where the parents pay whether your child is there or not, then she needs to be professional, and not schedule herself for volunteer work during the hours she normally takes care of children.

If you're going to run a day care from say 7:30 - 6:00, then you shouldn't take on outside jobs during that time.

I wouldn't have a problem with a child care provider taking my child on a field trip. I would have a problem with her working(or volunteering) a second job during the time that I'm paying to watch my child.

 

[MushyMushy]

All this running around you guys are talking about just isn't done where I live. I don't think licensed providers are even allowed to do that here. I know I wouldn't have wanted my son hauled all over town while the provider ran errands and did all kinds of things. And I liked her in-home environment. They did crafts, had activities, took naps, even watched TV (oh the horrors! LOL). They were in a HOME environment. I wouldn't have appreciated them being in a car most of the day!

Plus my son didn't respond well to different situations. He needed to be in a structured environment, and this was perfect for him.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I would have to disagree with those who think that two year old toddlers and preshcoolers should be dragged around to sports camps, schools, swimming lesson's etc...

There is really only one older child in this scenario who would benefit from, and probably should be doing, these kinds of things. (Yes, perhaps this child's parents should have enrolled them at a summer daycare program that had more to offer than an at-home provider who had toddlers and preschoolers to tend to.... But, that is an entirely different thread.

The parent's who are not happy with this arrangement are the parents of the two year old. And, if it were my son at two years old... I would have some serious reservations as well.

I continue to believe that there was NO set agreement.
More like wishful thinking on the OP's part.
Otherwise she wouldn't be 'asking' at this point... 'What about the two year old and the older sibling".

 

[luvmy3]

Do you stay home 24/7? Personally I wouldn't want that for my kids. Getting out and doing things is a part of life. My kids loved running errands at that age. I applaud the OP for trying to get some variety in the kids' schedule and trying to do some fun extra things with the kids. Most parents would LOVE to have someone this concerned about their kids taking care of them. She isn't running all over the place, she is taking the kids to a fun activity that they will be learning new things, meeting new kids, what is wrong with that??

Those things should be done on your own time, not while you are *on the clock*. If the OP is a professional daycare provider and she wanted to volunteer for VBS she should not have done so during her work hours, regardless if she thought it be good for her daycare kids to get out for a while. I would have a problem with that, and would have said so from the beginning.
With regards to the OP's situation with the parents I do feel she is right and they should pay her. Since she did discuss her plans and they did agree and had no problems at the time then they should still be expected to abide by her 2 week notice policy. If they don't give 2 weeks, the they need to pay.