Vaccinations

[CEDmom]

That doesn't change the fact that myself and at least one other poster on this thread have had serious reactions in our family. We've expressed this. Yet we're still hearing how horrible non-vaxers are (do I get bonus points, since we vaxed prior to the reaction?) and we're basically causing the end of civilization. It's really getting old to have our experiences dismissed and continue to read how horrible we are.



Have you even read anything in here? I am not basing my decision on anything I've read on the internet. I'm basing on on the fact that my dd had a serious and scary reaction to the 4 month round of vaxes. I really don't think I can say anything else without risking points. I'm really getting upset at the attitude that I should just off my dd for the greater good.

I honestly don't know why you're getting upset when people (myself included) have said that given your situation we'd definitely question whether further immunizations would be a wise decision. You're not who we're speaking about.

It's parent who says I'm not immunizing because I heard my neighbor's cousin's friend's son has autism and his parents are sure it's from an immunization he got that concern us.

 

[jodifla]

Have you even read anything in here? I am not basing my decision on anything I've read on the internet. I'm basing on on the fact that my dd had a serious and scary reaction to the 4 month round of vaxes. I really don't think I can say anything else without risking points. I'm really getting upset at the attitude that I should just off my dd for the greater good.

I've read it. And if anybody would get an exemption, I would assume it would be someone such as your family, who have serious medical concerns and actual doctor's advice to back them up.

But the majority of non-vaxers AREN"T in your shoes. They are simply deciding to play doctor on their own.

I may have missed it, but I'm wondering what you plan to do when your kids are older. Will you send them out to college totally unvaccinated? Or do the doctors feel your children could better handle vaccines once they are older?

There are risks with vaccines....with any drugs in fact. Too many parents these days want 100 percent no risk of any kind. You just don't get that in this life.

 

[LadyShiva]

There are risks with vaccines....with any drugs in fact. Too many parents these days want 100 percent no risk of any kind. You just don't get that in this life.

Why do you say this? Would you mind explaining this part? I'd like to know where you're coming from with this assertion.

Thanks in advance!
Brandie

 

[Nikel]

I may have missed it, but I'm wondering what you plan to do when your kids are older. Will you send them out to college totally unvaccinated? Or do the doctors feel your children could better handle vaccines once they are older?

We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. We've got quite a ways to worry about that. We're not sure which caused it. There were no different vaxes that the 2 month set, which she only had a mild reaction to (just a pea sized lump at the injection site, which comparatively, is nothing) and a low grade fever. She wasn't fussy or lethagric or anything though. Maybe it was a bad batch? I don't know, but at this point, I'm not willing to risk it. By the time the would go to college, if they choose to go, they would be old enough to make the decision for themselves. (And yes, I reported it to vaers, years ago shortly after it happened, in fact.)

 

[LadyShiva]

We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. We've got quite a ways to worry about that. We're not sure which caused it. There were no different vaxes that the 2 month set, which she only had a mild reaction to (just a pea sized lump at the injection site, which comparatively, is nothing) and a low grade fever. She wasn't fussy or lethagric or anything though. Maybe it was a bad batch? I don't know, but at this point, I'm not willing to risk it. By the time the would go to college, if they choose to go, they would be old enough to make the decision for themselves. (And yes, I reported it to vaers, years ago shortly after it happened, in fact.)

Good to hear about the report.

Ok, so I'll go look up the "2 month set" of vaxes... Maybe there's an additive allergy you could do a RAST test (Blood test for allergies) on and see if that was the cause... But I would think if it is an allergy to eggs (most anaphylactic reactions to vaxes are from the fact the vaccines are grown in chicken eggs), I would HOPE you would have already caught that!!!

I have a supposed allergy to eggs, determined by a skin test. I admit it, I ignore it because it is a mild allergy. *hanging head in shame* I refuse to give up eating ice cream! I've got milk, egg, baker's yeast, and dust mites. None cause anaphylactic shock (like DH's milk and peanut allergies) and I've had them my whole life--I'm not freaking out now. So THERE. *plbttt*

Brandie

ETA: Are these the shots your munchkin had the reaction on?
Diphtheria, tetanus and acellular pertussis (DTaP) — dose two of five
Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) — dose two of four
Inactivated poliovirus (IPV) — dose two of four
Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV) — dose two of four
Rotavirus vaccine — dose two of three

 

[Nikel]

Oh, definately not allergic to eggs. As far as I know, no allergies at all. And no family history of allergies either.

 

[Crankyshank]

Whenever people point out diseases that aren't life threatening as a reason they don't vaccinate, I wonder about those diseases that are. Many people seems to feel measles, mumps and chicken pox are childhood diseases and not necessarily a disaster to contract. But what about polio, diphtheria, menengitis and hepatitis? These are diseases that have been virtually eradicated in the US due to mass vaccinations. These diseases are often fatal. They aren't something to be dismissed. I am truly curious about this because it's the first thing people bring up when they talk about not vaccinating. Rationale such as whooping cough isn't so bad.....kids get measles, mumps and chicken pox without fatalities. But let's talk about the big diseases, the ones that can and have been fatal. Those diseases are the ones that I'm truly worried about in this age of "do your own thing with vaccinations".

This isn't meant to be inflammatory but I truly can't wrap my head around it.

Polio and diptheria are also on the rise in countries such as India. With the increasingly globalized society we live in, you don't have to travel overseas to be exposed to those diseases. The recent outbreak of measles in Boston was caused by a legal Indian alien working in Boston who was not vaccinated.
As an adult, my last booster was in 1992 and insurance doesn't cover additional boosters for adults. It definitely makes me go to think how easily I can be exposed to a devastating illness that was previously eradicated in this country. I can't imagine not vaccinating a child against those illnesses. Chicken pox, hpv- those I can understand even if I may or may not agree with.
As far as not understanding why people want their children to be exposed to chicken pox. The idea is that if you expose them at a younger age, it's less of a risk. Even the vaccine doesn't completely absolve you of possible contraction. My Mother really wanted me to get it over and done with in 3rd grade with everyone else. At 32, if I contract chicken pox, it will be much worse and life threatening if I had it at 7.

 

[3jsmommy]

For those of you who aren't vaccinating, enjoy your "choice" while it lasts.

Because with the first pandemic, your "choice" will be out the window, as quick as we can say "Gitmo."

And, expect to be personally blamed for your choice in allowing terrible diseases to find their way back into the daily lives of America's children. All because you read a bunch of conspiracy theory Web sites.

Did you read my post about how drug companies handle things, I am not some jump on the band wagon conspiracy theroy idiot!
I personally know 4 people who have autistic children, I am doing vacc.'s my own way. If there is a "pandemic it will not be my fault. If anything you can blame science, drug companies & vacc.'s for that.

 

[Wonderlandmom]

At 32, if I contract chicken pox, it will be much worse and life threatening if I had it at 7.

Actually my friends 7 yr old DD almost died from CP. She was in the hospital several weeks with a severe staph infection that started in a pox. And the sad thing was this mother purposely exposed her DD to CP to "get it over with". She had a hard time dealing with that. Her DD has lifelong injuries to her arm from the massive amounts of tissue and muscle they had to remove to save her life.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

BUT the risk of getting the disease AND having it be a "serious" or "deadly" case of it... is LOWER than the risk of having a reaction to the immunization!

Those of us who have drawn this (statistically correct) conclusion are just ignorant, bad parents who believe anything we read/hear and don't care about our kids or anyone else, don't ya know??

Meanwhile, I will pit my son's lifetime health record against anyone's. Proof's in the pudding, folks! At what age will you accept that my decision was sound? When he doesn't infect your children with anything? When he's 100 and has never contracted one of these universally "deadly" diseases? When they publish the breaking news that vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases they were intended to prevent (which I will bet my own life is coming down the pike in a few decades)? Never?

I find it INCREDIBLE that anyone could reply to the PP I quoted above with, "I don't believe that," or anything similar. Why not FIND OUT instead of just "believing" whatever conventional wisdom or a few conversations with one doctor tells you? Isn't that precisely what people have accused us non-vaxers of doing? The information is out there, but those of us who have researched it in-depth are the ignorant ones? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...but then again, I am not allowed to make that assertion since I am in the misguided, clueless minority.

Another point: those of you saying you would never let your kids play with mine due to his vaccine status...how would you know? It's not something I discuss with strangers! I don't alert everyone that my son is not vaxed! If someone asked me, I'd tell them...but it's not even something I think about. I know there is nothing irresponsible or unsafe about the choice we've made, so I don't dwell on it. I never think about it unless these threads come up (and they always do). It's simply a choice we made based on thorough research regarding our child's health care. So in the interest of enabling you to carry out your plans, I would say you need to directly ask the parents of every child your kids encounter if that child is fully vaccinated according to schedule. Don't be shocked that you will likely never find out if there is an unvaxed child in your child's classroom, as it is illegal for that to be discussed with other parents. And don't be surprised if some of the parents you ask say it's none of your business, or lie to you. I wouldn't, but many would! They fear persecution the likes of what we've seen on this thread.

I don't bother other people about their decisions to vax, even though I consider it to be a huge risk and quite often feel the parents are uneducated as to what that risk entails (not always, though). Hysteria over my child possibly starting an outbreak (which is not going to happen) dictates that I will never be afforded the same courtesy.

 

[LadyShiva]

Ok, I've crawled all over http://www.unitedstatesvisas.gov/visapolicy/faq.html and the http://www.unitedstatesvisas.gov/ website and even into the forms--there's no requirement to prove immunization for a non-immigrant visa. I know I got a ton of recommended shots to go to India, but they were all recommended, and I didn't have to prove my immunization status to get a visa. In addition, my shots weren't 100%, and were taken without enough time to take effect (had 2 weeks to prepare, Hep A&B shots are done in a series).

I found this:
http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/contentVaccinations.aspx
"Required Vaccinations

The only vaccine required by International Health Regulations is yellow fever vaccination for travel to certain countries in sub-Saharan Africa and tropical South America. Meningococcal vaccination is required by the government of Saudi Arabia for annual travel during the Hajj."

Can anyone share a link to prove that someone coming to the US has to prove their immunization status?

Brandie

 

[Hannathy]

Those of us who have drawn this (statistically correct) conclusion are just ignorant, bad parents who believe anything we read/hear and don't care about our kids or anyone else, don't ya know??

So where are your numbers and the source? If it is so easily proved let's see them.

 

[LadyShiva]

Those of us who have drawn this (statistically correct) conclusion are just ignorant, bad parents who believe anything we read/hear and don't care about our kids or anyone else, don't ya know??
......

I don't bother other people about their decisions to vax, even though I consider it to be a huge risk and quite often feel the parents are uneducated as to what that risk entails (not always, though). Hysteria over my child possibly starting an outbreak (which is not going to happen) dictates that I will never be afforded the same courtesy.

You frequently crow about your child's health. I don't think there's been a thread you've discussed on that you haven't mentioned the fact he's unvaxed. While you think you never mention it, I feel like the Scotty dog on "Lady & the Tramp": "You've mentioned him. Frequently."

For my day care, you have to provide proof that your child is vaccinated. I'm sure the same is true for any opt-in activity or business involving child care.

While you are comfortable with your choice on the basis of your research, you also can't repudiate the fact that a LOT of medical professionals disagree with your personal research. There are studies posted on this thread that prove there is no link between thimerosol and methyl mercury, so no link between thimerosol and autism. We've explained how vaccines work, and why challenges to an immune system result in a partial immunity to the disease. We've pointed out the breakdown in vaccination rates statistically lead to more break-outs of the diseases we vaccinate against.

Despite all evidence to the contrary, you believe your child will never encounter and contract any life-threatening disease. Your kid is what... FIVE? SIX? And you've made a decision that will affect the rest of his life on the basis that he's been well for those years, and he will never want to leave this country.

Most of those who have a more than adequate grasp of the scientific protocol call your decisions emotional, versus rational. You believe your decisions to be scientific-based, despite all the evidence out there, and the compromise to space out vaccinations. Despite a lack of any evidence that vaccinations will personally hurt your child, you'd rather gamble on them possibly hurting your child, and therefore avoid them.

That's my argument against your decision. Do not see this as an insult to your mothering, but a argument against your decisions.

Your "personal choice" does affect others, with the proof being the picture in your signature. You have no desire to quarantine your child for the rest of his life. If he contracts a disease from socializing with others from around the world, so be it, and if he doesn't show symptoms before you notice and isolate him, he will pass on the disease. Those are the results of what you see as a "personal choice."

Brandie

 

[Hannathy]

Meanwhile, I will pit my son's lifetime health record against anyone's. Proof's in the pudding, folks! At what age will you accept that my decision was sound? When he doesn't infect your children with anything?

Don't be shocked that you will likely never find out if there is an unvaxed child in your child's classroom, as it is illegal for that to be discussed with other parents.

Hysteria over my child possibly starting an outbreak (which is not going to happen) dictates that I will never be afforded the same courtesy.

Are you talking about the 3 yr old, I would hardly 3 yrs a "lifetime". Possibly when he is 25 or so and has been thru school and on a foreign trip without catching anything.

And why is this? Why is it illegal,I actually think it should have to be available. If you wish to put your child at risk, fine but when you put my child at risk it is my business. Everyone should be made aware that there is an immunized child sitting next to there child everyday, why does this need to be hid, after all most people assume it is a rule and expect there child not to be exposed unnecessarily.

You can not say that, you can not guarantee that. do you think Typhoid Mary's Mom thought she'd cause an outbreak when she was 3?

Part of living in a society and receiving the benefits of living in a society is accepting some things are done based on the general good of the society versus the individual need. If you aren't willing to participate in this duty then don't reap the benefits.

 

[mickeyboat]

TM - your son is not even 3, yet. He does not attend regular day care, he is not enrolled in school. He has not yet been exposed to the army of germs that trudge through schools yearly. Vaxed or not, he is eventually going to get sick.

Heck, my girls are vaxed per schedule, and they are incredibly healthy. I don't think you can contribute your son's apparent good health to his lack of vaccinations.

And what Brandie said.

Denae

 

[BelleBoo&AmisMum]

For those of you who aren't vaccinating, enjoy your "choice" while it lasts.

Because with the first pandemic, your "choice" will be out the window, as quick as we can say "Gitmo."

And, expect to be personally blamed for your choice in allowing terrible diseases to find their way back into the daily lives of America's children. All because you read a bunch of conspiracy theory Web sites.

Why does everything have to be such a drama with you? Seriously.

You can't have a discussion without flipping out over everything. Perhaps it's time to get off the computer and finish work on that bomb/terrorist attack/worldwide pandemic of a billion diseases shelter I'm sure you're working on.

 

[Crankyshank]

Actually my friends 7 yr old DD almost died from CP. She was in the hospital several weeks with a severe staph infection that started in a pox. And the sad thing was this mother purposely exposed her DD to CP to "get it over with". She had a hard time dealing with that. Her DD has lifelong injuries to her arm from the massive amounts of tissue and muscle they had to remove to save her life.

I never said a child couldn't. I know someone who died from CP at the age of 11. Still doesn't discount my statement which was that getting chicken pox at 32 would be much worse and life threatening if I had it at 7.

 

[CathrynRose]

I don't bother other people about their decisions to vax, even though I consider it to be a huge risk and quite often feel the parents are uneducated as to what that risk entails (not always, though). Hysteria over my child possibly starting an outbreak (which is not going to happen) dictates that I will never be afforded the same courtesy.

Youre absolutely right. ESPECIALLY around here.

BTW - Your posts have been incredibly informative. I have a VAX'd 16 y/o and an UN-VAX'd 12 y/o. (who got Chicken Pox last school year in a classfull of VAX'd children. Weird, right? - now MY son has 100% immunity! )

Part of living in a society and receiving the benefits of living in a society is accepting some things are done based on the general good of the society versus the individual need. .

And part of being a responsible parent is making decisions which are best for your child.

Again - weighing the good vs the bad shouldnt be condemnded, but rather applauded WHATEVER your decision may be.

 

[Nikel]

Perhaps I should get it tattooed on my dd's forehead.

 

[Crankyshank]

Ok, I've crawled all over http://www.unitedstatesvisas.gov/visapolicy/faq.html and the http://www.unitedstatesvisas.gov/ website and even into the forms--there's no requirement to prove immunization for a non-immigrant visa. I know I got a ton of recommended shots to go to India, but they were all recommended, and I didn't have to prove my immunization status to get a visa. In addition, my shots weren't 100%, and were taken without enough time to take effect (had 2 weeks to prepare, Hep A&B shots are done in a series).

I found this:
http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/contentVaccinations.aspx
"Required Vaccinations

The only vaccine required by International Health Regulations is yellow fever vaccination for travel to certain countries in sub-Saharan Africa and tropical South America. Meningococcal vaccination is required by the government of Saudi Arabia for annual travel during the Hajj."

Can anyone share a link to prove that someone coming to the US has to prove their immunization status?

Brandie

Like I said earlier, the measles outbreak in Boston recently was due to a non vaccinated legal alien from India on a work visa. He did not have to show proof of immunization. I work at a University with a lot of visiting international researchers and as far as I am aware, there in no requirement for them either.