Vaccinations

[badblackpug]

It is common for children to develop a "small outbreak" of chicken pox or measeals lesions after immunization. They are not contagious, it is just a "reaction" to the vaccine. Although the chicken pox vaccine will not give your child "blanket immunity" from the pox, any case he might get later in life will be mild. This is MUCH safer than full blown pox. Although rare some complications from pox can lead to brain injury.
As for immunizations I am all for them...all of them Children unknowingly spread diseases. Case in point Hep A is usually spread through fecal contamination...you cannot assure that children are using good handwashing after using the bathroom...maybe yours are, but not everyone in school.
There has been a lot of immunization bashing in recent years. Some link immunizations, or the preservative in immunizations, to things such as autism and learning disorders. This has never been proven, and if it were true this risk of this is minimal compared to the risk of long term complications or death from the illnesses for which your children are being vaccinated. In our area we have had a resurgance of pertussis (whooping cough) due to lack of vaccination. Living in Philadelphia I am also aware of the incidences of polio. In the 1990's it was measels.
It is normal for a child who 1st starts daycare to catch everything that comes down the road. Because they have been at home, and not exposed, they have no immunity. This will level off as the child develops immunity.

 

[noodleknitter]

Some link immunizations, or the preservative in immunizations, to things such as autism and learning disorders. This has never been proven, and if it were true this risk of this is minimal compared to the risk of long term complications or death from the illnesses for which your children are being vaccinated.

It is only "minimal" if it is not your child, I guess... My grandfather was an "Agent Orange" victim. It was a loooooong time before it was proven or at least admitted. Were the government to admit that these issues were connected to vaccines they would be open to having to compensate, as they do for other vaccine issues.

As I stated earlier, I have a niece who died, and my husband has a cousin who is deaf due to vaccines. They are not a "minimal" risk in our family.

 

[Dina]

My son also had a mild case of chickenpox after receiving the vaccine, and I was also told by my pediatrician that they were not contagious. As long as he had under 50 pox (he had 15), they're not contagious -- although they said it would still be a good idea to stay away from anyone with an auto immune disorder (I kept him in anyway, because I wasn't given this information until he was almost done with his chickenpox outbreak, so I didn't realize they weren't contagious. I actually started calling all of the parents of kids in his playgroup etc.)

 

[2Princes2Princesses]

It is only "minimal" if it is not your child, I guess... My grandfather was an "Agent Orange" victim. <snip>

I immunize all my kids. We have had the outbreak of pertussis up here in NY, too. I used to work in the pediatric ER. I have seen a child practically suffocating from pertussis. It is not pretty. Whooping cough sounds like it is no big deal....it is a HUGE deal and a horrible thing to suffer through.

Two years ago, I found out one of the kids my 13 yr old plays with was not immunized. She was banned from our house and playing with my daughter until my youngest has received all his immunizations, since I was concerned my immunized daughter could carry pertussis or anything home to the baby.

I understand you might have issues with immunization, but should I have to watch my child suffer and die from something like pertussis because YOU chose not to immunize?? My husband has Gulf War Syndrome and is on chronic steroids, so that puts him at risk, too.

The neurological problems with the DTaP have been somewhat linked to thimerosal, a preservative, which is no longer in the vaccination.

ANd OP-you followed the instructions and information given to you. While I would probably be worried if I knew another child in daycare had a rash from the measles shot and was allowed to play with the kids, you did nothing wrong. And giving 1 or 2 per visit, rather than all of the vaccines at once? That is fine as far as I am concerned.

I personally do them all at once and my kids have mega-immune systems, not sure if it is from getting so many shots, but out of 4 kids, we have had 2 ear infections, 1 case of strep, and my 2 oldest had chicken pox once each, and pneumonia once each when they were smaller. We could just be lucky, I guess.

We get the flu shot every year, too!

 

[noodleknitter]

Guess so. Your child or mine? They are tough choices.

If your sister lost her first baby on the 3rd set of DTPs (after doing just fine for the first 2) you might have some concerns, too.

The Government says Gulf War Syndrome doesn't exist either. Guess there's nothing really wrong with your husband... Feels pretty crappy to know something that isn't acknowledged, doesn't it?

 

[Bird-Mom]

Two years ago, I found out one of the kids my 13 yr old plays with was not immunized. She was banned from our house and playing with my daughter until my youngest has received all his immunizations, since I was concerned my immunized daughter could carry pertussis or anything home to the baby.

I understand you might have issues with immunization, but should I have to watch my child suffer and die from something like pertussis because YOU chose not to immunize?? My husband has Gulf War Syndrome and is on chronic steroids, so that puts him at risk, too.

The neurological problems with the DTaP have been somewhat linked to thimerosal, a preservative, which is no longer in the vaccination.

So, if you are afraid that your immunized child will carry a disease, then you are afraid that the vax doesn't work. If you believe in the immunization, then you shouldn't be afraid of your child playing with an unimmunized child.

I'm with Noodleknitter-my responsibility is to my children.

The problems with the DTaP is not thimerisol-it is the pertussis componet. When it was the DTP, the P part was causing a huge number of reactions. It made it much more unsafe than the actual disease. Consequently, they changed it to acellular pertussis, hence the change to aP. However, this vaccination is a joke. It has a 73% convergeance rate which means that there is more than a 1 in 4 chance that you will not show immunity to pertussis. In order to get "approved," it needs a 70% convergeance rate. It is barely valid.

As I stated in the flu shot thread, there IS still thimerisol in vaccinations. However, the pHARMaceutical companies lobbied the government, and they are allowed to exclude it from the list of ingredients as long as it is below a certain percentage.

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason for Gulf War Syndrome is all the poisons from mandatory military vax.

 

[tacomaranch]

This should not become a huge debate, we all do what we feel is best for our children.

My DS did not have the vaccines because I was worried about the link to Autism. Guess what? My son has Autism so what I was worried about happen anyways.

We live in a very very small town and other than travel to Disney we don't leave our community.

He doesn't go to daycare and I will most likely homeschool.

It is up to each parent to do what is right for them. Who are we to judge?

 

[Bird-Mom]

Although the chicken pox vaccine will not give your child "blanket immunity" from the pox, any case he might get later in life will be mild. This is MUCH safer than full blown pox. Although rare some complications from pox can lead to brain injury.

As for immunizations I am all for them...all of them Children unknowingly spread diseases. Case in point Hep A is usually spread through fecal contamination...you cannot assure that children are using good handwashing after using the bathroom...maybe yours are, but not everyone in school.


There has been a lot of immunization bashing in recent years. Some link immunizations, or the preservative in immunizations, to things such as autism and learning disorders. This has never been proven, and if it were true this risk of this is minimal compared to the risk of long term complications or death from the illnesses for which your children are being vaccinated.

In our area we have had a resurgance of pertussis (whooping cough) due to lack of vaccination. Living in Philadelphia I am also aware of the incidences of polio. In the 1990's it was measels.
It is normal for a child who 1st starts daycare to catch everything that comes down the road. Because they have been at home, and not exposed, they have no immunity. This will level off as the child develops immunity.

I just wanted to make a couple of points here. The chicken pox is rarely dangerous. Most severe complications happen in children who are at risk due to a suppressed immune system.

Adults spread disease too. My dh refuses to touch the bathroom door handle at his work because the bathroom is so filthy. Hep A is not life threatening. Does it merit a vaccine? Wouldn't it be safer to teach good hygeine? At my dd's school, the children are between age 2.5 and 7, and when it is time for food, they automatically run to the bathroom. Coming in from recess, going potty, snack...you don't even need to tell them.

I have thoroughly researched every disease for which there is a vaccination. None of them are scary to me. My older dd had rubella. Not scary at all. IMO, for my family, the risk of the vax is higher than that of the disease. I have an autoimmune disease caused either by a DT vax or a soccer injury. Most likely, it is the vax.

I do not think there are outbreaks due to lack of vaccination. As I said earlier, the pertussis vax doesn't always give immunity. Immunity wears off. The mumps outbreak in the midwest last year was amongst the vaccinated.

I do agree with you that little ones get sick frequently when they start school or daycare. However, when my dd started school, *I* was sick for 4 months. She brought me all kinds of germs. Guess what...she was never sick. She has the immune system of a horse. She is not vaccinated.

Anecdotally, 90% of my friends do not vax. Our children are healthier than the 10% who are vaccinated.

 

[noodleknitter]

I was just thinking during the night about the banning of a non vac. child. How does that translate to real life? Are the children allowed around older people who were not vaccinated, or around infants who ar not yet? Or did one poor kid get all of your wrath?

The only person I now that got polio, got it from the vaccine.

I don't live my life fearful of germs. I think bodies were made to fight them, if you don't screw them up.

 

[emh1129]

To the OP, there are some great books out there on vaccinations. This probably isn't a good spot to find useful info.. unfortunately, many people don't take the initiative to do their own research and just trust other people to make decisions for them.

 

[badblackpug]

Please don't take words out of context. My point was that the incidence of complications from vaccines are far less frequent than the incidence of complications, such as brain injury, from the disease itself. I am not saying that the complications from the vaccines are, themselves, minor. I am saying that they are rarer. ...and, yes, in this area and in my practice, the children we are seeing who are contracting these diseases (polio, mumps, rubella, pertussis) are NOT vaccinated. These diseases still exist, and adults and children still die of them. They are not irradicated. We had a woman die of tetanus (lockjaw) as she wasn't vaccinated. There are less than 5 cases of tetanus seen in the U.S. per year.
In our public school system children are not permitted to attend if they do not have all the "required" vaccines.
I think the reasons that MD's give so many vaccines at once are twofold:
1) Compliance is always an issue. The parent who is not so scrupulous about well baby care is more likely to attend 6 "well baby" visits as apposed to 12
2) I think it is to spare the little ones some. 6 shots, with 6 occurances of "after effects" just seems kinder than 12.

 

[emh1129]

In our public school system children are not permitted to attend if they do not have all the "required" vaccines.

I believe that in every state, there are religious or philosophical (or both) exemptions available, so that's not true.

ETA: You're in PA? I just double checked, and yes, exemptions are available. It looks to be one of the more lenient states actually, because it includes options for being morally and philosophically opposed.

 

[noodleknitter]

You have your opinion, and I have mine, and they have little to do with the OP. I do find if offensive, when the medical field and the government (using schools to coerce submission) decide for the people what is "best" for the people. There is no best for everyone. Choice is a good thing. Research is a good thing. And calling the tragedies of others minimal, because they don't fit into your world view, is just plain sad.

OP, I apologize for jumping the track with your thread. I hope your wee one improves in health, and that you get a break! Being a mom, and making the necessary decisions is much harder than I ever would have guessed.

I do agree with you about the massive offence on a poor little things body with the multitudes of immunizations. And with that, I will bow out.

 

[tacomaranch]

We have a waiver and actually reported a daycare and had the license pulled because the owner told the parents our son was not vaccinated. It is against the law to do so.

We have a waiver and it is proof for the public and private school system.

 

[kribit]

My twins had all the required shots and it wasn't fun to watch. The only one they had reaction to was the MMR (both significantly high fever and rash 5 days post shot). They just had their 4yo boosters and I put the MMR booster off until next year because of their reaction the first time (I thought 5 needles in the arm was a bit too much for one day). As long as they have the booster between 4-6 it is acceptable.

I highly agree with vaccinating and that it should be required to enter school. That's a whole different subject though.

 

[pigget74]

Again, I did not mean to sart a debate thread. It has been proven here that no one is going to agree on the vaccinations issue. To be honest if it was not for daycare and school we would not have vaccinated him with all that we have so far. We would have waited longer in between the vaccines and broken them down even more. IF you want to call me a bad parent for that fine. I know these diseases still exist. I believe that there are some vaccines that our kiddos do not need at that young of age. I think that there little bodies face to much in the first year of life. The whole point of this thread was to see if other parents felt the same about the kids being bombarded with so many vaccines at once. How are we to know which ones they had a reaction to. I also understand that some parents do not take kids to well baby checkups like they should, but should my child be forced into something, just because of another parent! Around here there are not to many options for breaking down shots. I know at my peds. office if you break down shots--it isn't persay being able to seperate individual shots, but getting only 1 shot (which may have 3 things in it) then going to health department later on and getting the other ones. My health department is not close at all and the peole are just rude, so we did it once and that was it. You can't go to my peds for several shots on different visits other than your normal well baby visit--do I agree with this no, but I love our doctor.

Just one more thought--we have chicken pox going around our younger elementary--guess who are the ones getting them--the vaccinated kids and it is not the mild case.

My little man is doing better--his appetite is now better than ever, but we still have 3 more days of meds. His pox are now scabbing over, luckily he does not realize they are there.

 

[badblackpug]

I believe that in every state, there are religious or philosophical (or both) exemptions available, so that's not true.

ETA: You're in PA? I just double checked, and yes, exemptions are available. It looks to be one of the more lenient states actually, because it includes options for being morally and philosophically opposed.

Yes, certainly, because of our large Amish population. Most Amish attend their own schools rather than public, so it is not really too much of an issue.

 

[mcraft17]

My question is.... If vaccinations cause so many problems like autism, why is autism on the rise and not so many cases years ago when vaccinations probably included alot more than they do now? I had all my vaccinations and I am ok as well as my sisters and my father through the military. But I don't go into debate about it because I feel I do what is best for my child and you do what you feel is best for yours. Although I did vaccinate my daughter my sister does not vaccinate her son. Do I argue with her? No I may think it is not what I would do but it is not my child. Just remember that only you can make the decision for your child don't let anyone else tell you what to do, and OP I feel you do have the right to say when you want to get the shots done. It is not like you are saying no to the vaccinations just how and when they are given. Good luck and I hope your little guy feels better soon!

 

[kaysmommie]

I just wanted to make a couple of points here. The chicken pox is rarely dangerous. Most severe complications happen in children who are at risk due to a suppressed immune system.

Adults spread disease too. My dh refuses to touch the bathroom door handle at his work because the bathroom is so filthy. Hep A is not life threatening. Does it merit a vaccine? Wouldn't it be safer to teach good hygeine? At my dd's school, the children are between age 2.5 and 7, and when it is time for food, they automatically run to the bathroom. Coming in from recess, going potty, snack...you don't even need to tell them.

I have thoroughly researched every disease for which there is a vaccination. None of them are scary to me. My older dd had rubella. Not scary at all. IMO, for my family, the risk of the vax is higher than that of the disease. I have an autoimmune disease caused either by a DT vax or a soccer injury. Most likely, it is the vax.

I do not think there are outbreaks due to lack of vaccination. As I said earlier, the pertussis vax doesn't always give immunity. Immunity wears off. The mumps outbreak in the midwest last year was amongst the vaccinated.

I do agree with you that little ones get sick frequently when they start school or daycare. However, when my dd started school, *I* was sick for 4 months. She brought me all kinds of germs. Guess what...she was never sick. She has the immune system of a horse. She is not vaccinated.

Anecdotally, 90% of my friends do not vax. Our children are healthier than the 10% who are vaccinated.

Your DD and mine sound like they have similar immune systems. DD6 started Kindergarten last year and most of the year DS and I were sick. She has excellent hygiene and washes her hands alot and usues Hand Sanitizer when she gets in the car but we still got sick. As of now I'm passing on the Vaccines and Flu mist this year. Even though the school sent home a paper all about a Flu Pandemic!! Kind of freaks me out.

 

[ekball]

pHARMaceutical QUOTE]