Using DDP knowing you won't get value?

[Nancyg56]

Off to find a thread discussing how I'm wasting money staying at a Deluxe!

I'm right there with you, I waste money on Deluxe and will often book CL so I can waste even more of my money! LOL! Go figure!

 

[Ratzo]

Ratzo has been very clear about anyone who is saving on the dining plan is either purposely misleading people or doing the math wrong. Ratzo has pointed to my honest details about only saving money on the first half of the trip using the dining plan because we do get the refillable mugs. That does not change the fact all three of us will indeed get the mugs, but whatever. What Ratzo has never mentioned was my post regarding the second half of our trip when we will save over $500 using the deluxe plan. Clearly there is an agenda to prove that the dining plan will never save anyone money.

Are you referring to this post?


I don't see where you broke down the second half of the trip. Please enlighten us with the details.

 

[Ratzo]

Off to find a thread discussing how I'm wasting money staying at a Deluxe!

Oh, I see you've heard about Disney's new Deluxe Lodging Plan. For a lump sum of $16,500, you get 7 nights in ANY available room at ANY Disney resort. It might save you some money if you get the most expensive room at the most expensive resorts for your entire stay. Exclusions apply, like the room in Cinderella's castle, etc. and there are blackout dates. Nevertheless, it gives you the peace of mind that...well, I don't know, but somebody will buy it.

 

[eeyoresmom]

Please explain. A deluxe credit, assuming NO value for the refillable mug and $4 snack credits is valued around $30. I'm getting a beverage, appetizer, entree and dessert at Tuttu Italia for that $30 credit. Other 1 credit ADR's planned are 'Ohana, Raglan Road and Whispering Canyon Cafe. Which of these meals am I losing money on?

Still waiting

 

[maxiesmom]

It boggles my mind that people will willingly spend more money on something than they need to. Would you go into a grocery store and fork over two hundred dollars if the bill was $150? Would you pay $300 for a $39.85 pair of pant? Why pay more for food than you need to?

I would equate it to paying $600 for a month's worth of groceries ahead of time, and being able to go into that store the whole month and grab whatever I want off of the shelves.

I know when I ran the numbers for my last trip, it was pretty much a toss up on if I would save money or not. So I got the plan. For me being able to eat whatever I wanted without fussing and having to keep a running total in my head was worth whatever small amount I may have overpaid.

People place value on different things. You may not value the peace of mind of not having to count every penny as it is being spent, but I do. Whatever works for each of us.

 

[MrInfinity]

But ratzo has indeed asked you for your math on how you saved, which would naturally include that stuff! So really the question that you've stated you aren't going to answer was asking the questions you now want him to ask. Confusing.

Several people answered him on the math. DDP and the DxDP. He just declares the math invalid or irrational and discounts it. One shouldn't ask people for their wisdom, and then when given, just write it off. That's why he's not getting the responses. If people will explain it to you but you'll just plug your ears and go "lalalalala DDP is bad you're irrational" then people won't get value out of talking to you or trying to find common ground.

There are those who naturally eat in such a way that the plan makes sense.

Sure. It will work for some, not others.

There are those who create a meal plan that helps the plan make sense.

I won't disagree here either. Once you know you're paying on points to it's easy to start picking more expensive places or entrees. Places you've always wanted to eat at but never did because of the cost.

If that works without feeling sick the whole time then that's awesome.

I don't understand the glutton aspect. If you are on the DDP or cash, and you eat at any of the buffet or family-style places, you're subject to exactly the same overeating. 1 TS and 1 QS is not encouraging of overeating. I personally never liked the DxDP because it would be too much food for me... so I'm sure to some, even the DDP is too much food. So then you don't get it!

And that sort of thing is where I tilt my head like a confused puppy.

Well ok, sure. If you look at the extreme cases and regard them as the norm, I could see being confused. But for most guests... They don't leave with 40 rice krispie treats, they don't overeat, they get what they want, they splurge a little because it's vacation, and the DDP is within 10% + or - of what they'd have paid cash.

I could not separate the parts of my mind like that and it mystifies me that some can.

Understandable. If one's mind works one way, it's often hard to think that other people could work another way.

But no doubt someone will be offended that I can't figure out how that works psychologically.

I suppose every thing out there has a person that can be offended by it. But that's not really relevant.

Isn't contact lens solution a medical liquid and you can bring full sized bottles?

Where people talk about travel sizes, I think it's more about volume and weight. Sure you can bring this stuff. We drive so we don't even have to worry about TSA rules. But still with 6 people in a car you gotta figure out your packing. If you bring 5-10 chemicals full size, you're wasting a good cubic foot of car space. I'm with them on the travel size stuff.

And I believe the post you replied to said "a majority", which would go along with your 2/3 vs 1/3.

So-- are you agreeing with me? I'm fine w agreeing on a DDP being financially advantageous to 1/3 of guests and disadvantageous to 2/3 of guests.

Because if you use them at one credit restaurants you've devastated a lot of the financial value of the deluxe plan.

Not sure I'm following you here. Some 1-credit restaurants are actually the best value on the DDP. It generally goes... 1-credit entertainment and character meals, 2-credit specialty events, 1-credit TS meals, 2-credit TS meals, and last, most breakfasts that do not fit into one of the previous groups.

EDIT: Somehow I got files attached and can't seem to get rid of them.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

Hang on a sec...and I'm being serious... You load a prepaid credit card with the EXACT amount of the DDP plus tax. I know you can use it for non-dining, but let's say you judiciously use it just for dining and snacks only. It's "worry-free" and gives "peace of mind" since the dining is still prepaid. Remember, the DDP isn't all you can eat/use it as many times as you like. You still have a fixed number of TS/QS/snacks, so there's still tracking and planning to be done. You can end up paying out of pocket for things not covered and lose things you already paid for (like snacks and mug refills) on the DDP.

Here's what I propose: Plan your restaurants and meals as if you were going to do the DDP, but don't buy the DDP. Buy the Ratzo DDP instead. I'll bet the majority of times this is done, you'll have money left over on my plan with less compromises.

not true for us. The majority of the time, we would run out of money. NOT FUN!

And you never answered my question: Does the Ratso plan come with a guarantee that if I go over you spot me the rest?

 

[MrInfinity]

Oh, I see you've heard about Disney's new Deluxe Lodging Plan. For a lump sum of $16,500, you get 7 nights in ANY available room at ANY Disney resort. It might save you some money if you get the most expensive room at the most expensive resorts for your entire stay. Exclusions apply, like the room in Cinderella's castle, etc. and there are blackout dates. Nevertheless, it gives you the peace of mind that...well, I don't know, but somebody will buy it.

You must absolutely hate DVC!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Where people talk about travel sizes, I think it's more about volume and weight. Sure you can bring this stuff. We drive so we don't even have to worry about TSA rules. But still with 6 people in a car you gotta figure out your packing. If, of the 5-10 chemicals you need you bring full size, you're wasting a good cubic foot of car space. I'm with them on the travel size stuff.
In fact we're debating getting a storagelocker. (dot com). Because our next 4 trips will be: drive-fly-fly-drive, it would work out well to use the two drives to prep for the 2 flys.

It's both not wanting to deal with the hassle with TSA at least at this time (ask me again if I travel with children in the future which could change things lol) and size constraint. Space tends to be a premium in a suitcase or in the case of flying with the liquids a premium in your carry-ons so taking smaller quantities is more desirable. But I got what bumbershoot what saying and I get what you are saying as well .

My examples were just serving a purpose of understanding that sometimes we favor convenience (and I understand convenience isn't the only reason one chooses the Dining Plans) over cost effectiveness or we don't even consider cost.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

Several people answered him on the math. DDP and the DxDP. He just declares the math invalid or irrational and discounts it. One shouldn't ask people for their wisdom, and then when given, just write it off. That's why he's not getting the responses. If people will explain it to you but you'll just plug your ears and go "lalalalala DDP is bad you're irrational" then people won't get value out of talking to you or trying to find common ground.

.

This exactly. You cannot discuss something with someone unwilling to consider another point of view.


I definitely don't feel the dining plan is for everyone. It doesn't work for a lot of people. It is however 100% ridiculous to claim no one can possibly find value in it, or that the only value worth considering is monetary.

 

[cdh]

For those who want to see the math,

Here are my numbers and dining options for a six night trip. I've said this before.....I make two separate reservations. One for a room/tickets/deluxe dining for five nights and a second for room only for the sixth night. The first reservation allows us to have dining from day one through six because you have the plan from the time you check in until midnight on the day that you check out. We don't have a dining plan for the seventh morning. We check in late on the first day at Disney and only need one meal for that day. We leave early morning on the last day and do not eat breakfast at Disney.

My dining plan for five nights is $515 and the total for the meals that I have listed is $593. With the $593 calculation I have never used a refillable mug and I haven't included a single snack. Truth is, I won't fill the mug but we will have a few snacks. I don't like buffets but my daughter likes to see the characters. We eat almost nothing at the character buffets. I don't want to stand in numerous lines outside in the heat to have an autograph book signed so, character meals it is. It grosses me out when parents let their small kids with the sniffles go get their own food. It wouldn't be unusual to leave a character meal and go have a snack. When I order an appetizer, an entrée, and a dessert, I take a few bites of each and that's it. I eat enough to get full but not enough to be miserable. So, $593 minus $515 is a $78 savings per person (we all eat almost the same things), multiply $78 times 3 people and we have saved $234 using the deluxe plan (without even counting the addition of a few snacks and the refillable mug).

This plan wouldn't work for all families...but it works for families with young kids, who want to see lots of characters without waiting in lines. On our second trip each year, I skip the character meals and I don't buy the dining plan. So, we have gone to Disney using the plan and we have also gone and paid OOP. I'm not going to defend my dining choices but I will share them for those who may be interested.

Day 1 Check-in
Chef Mickeys (6pm) $48 1 credit

Day 2
Ohana breakfast (10am) $35 1 credit
California Grill (7pm) Kazan roll, filet of beef, choc pudding cake $89 2 credits

Day 3
Tusker House (10am) $35 1 credit
Be Our Guest (6pm) salad, chicken breast, choc cream puff $41 1 credit

Day 4
Akershus (8am) $38 1 credit
Garden Grill (1pm) $48 1 credit
Le Cellier (7pm) soup, rib-eye, nanaimo pie $76 2 credits

Day 5
1900 Park Fare (8am) $32 1 credit
The Plaza (2pm) loaded fries, cheese steak sandwich, apple pie $34 1 credit
Chef Mickeys (9pm) $48 1 credit

Day 6 (Go to the desk and check out of package reservation and into room only reservation.....takes five minutes)
Nine Dragons (11am) pot stickers, s&s pork, rice pudding $31 1 credit
Yak and Yeti (5pm) egg rolls, s&s chicken, fried wontons $38 1 credit

Total $593 15 credits

Some may say that I am having too many appetizers and desserts. If I skipped every appetizer and dessert that I mentioned above, then that would save $128. The cost of the deluxe dining plan was $515. If I just include the cost of entrees listed above then the total is $465 which is $50 less than the deluxe dining plan BUT I would still need to add snacks and drinks so, at worst, with no appetizers and no desserts (but with snacks and drinks in the park) we would break even.

If we maximized the plan and you consider the mug being worth $20 and $10 in snacks per day that's an extra $70 per person for the trip, $210 for the three of us. Add $210 to the $234 we were already saving if we had the meals that I mentioned above and we have saved $444 using the deluxe plan, we have eaten everything we wanted, and we haven't thought of the cost of food while on vacation.

 

[Nancyg56]

For those who want to see the math,



If we maximized the plan and you consider the mug being worth $20 and $10 in snacks per day that's an extra $70 per person for the trip, $210 for the three of us. Add $210 to the $234 we were already saving if we had the meals that I mentioned above and we have saved $444 using the deluxe plan, we have eaten everything we wanted, and we haven't thought of the cost of food while on vacation.

Right about now is when you may hear "And what about tips????? You spend more on tips because you have to order more than you normally would or will order a more expensive entrée?"

I know that some folks get blindsided, but I don't know how that happens. WE took the little family down the street with us, stayed at the Grand CL, paid for DxDDP. All she was responsible for was her alcohol and the gratuities. Somehow she managed to rack up a bill over 8 days, she said it was $700.00, which was conceivable, but I confess I did not keep track of anyone's spending. My daughter did that for me. What was not conceivable was that is was all gratuities, which is what she insisted occurred. I did explain that pool cocktails, wine and cocktails with dinner, and the extras at the spato accompany the massages that my DH bought for all the girls add up fast. 700.00 in tips for one adult and 2 children? I don't know.

 

[DisBuckMan]

Some of y'all really care about this way too much, or you just like to argue.

 

[Ratzo]

Several people answered him on the math. DDP and the DxDP. He just declares the math invalid or irrational and discounts it. One shouldn't ask people for their wisdom, and then when given, just write it off. That's why he's not getting the responses. If people will explain it to you but you'll just plug your ears and go "lalalalala DDP is bad you're irrational" then people won't get value out of talking to you or trying to find common ground.

Wrong. I don't say the MATH is invalid. The problem is a LACK of math. The non-math reasons for the dining plan is what's irrational. Please do try to keep up.

And you never answered my question: Does the Ratso plan come with a guarantee that if I go over you spot me the rest?

Of course not. Neither does the Disney plan. But unlike the Disney plan, you don't lose if you change plans, eat less, choose less expensive items, don't use up all your snack credits, etc.

This exactly. You cannot discuss something with someone unwilling to consider another point of view.

Please copy and paste the part in this thread where I said such a thing.

For those who want to see the math...

BRAVO! This is what I'm talking about. DETAILS. This can be replicated with a little bit of planning. The only proviso not mentioned is that this assumes that every person in the group will be eating at the same restaurant during each meal and the entire group's eating habits are reflected rather than any one person in the group. (Everyone in the part always gets an appetizer, entree, and dessert with the exception of a buffet, etc..) Nevertheless, this looks like a GOOD example of how you can save money on the Deluxe plan and didn't even use the mugs to make it work! I like the trick of making two reservations to undercut the total number of nights on the DxDDP. To answer eeyoresmom, if cdh didn't do that, Disney would have forced them into a 6 day package and there would have been leftover unused credits. That's why 1 credit restaurants on the DxDDP can be disastrous; they don't use up credits fast enough. Also keep in mind the net benefit assumes purchasing 10 snacks for each person over the six days on top of those meals. Again, this is something you have to ask yourself if you're going to want. If you do, then you should try cdh's trick!

 

[eeyoreandtink]

Of course not. Neither does the Disney plan. But unlike the Disney plan, you don't lose if you change plans, eat less, choose less expensive items, don't use up all your snack credits, etc.

You can't go over on the Disney plan. You are guaranteed 2 meals and a snack per day. Not so on your plan, so its not what I am looking for.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

Please copy and paste the part in this thread where I said such a thing.


!

Every time someone presents their reasons for why the dining plan works for them, shows you examples of how it saves the money, and you discount them as wrong. OVER and OVER. Pretty much every post you have made here.

 

[eeyoresmom]

But you didn't answer me at all. I gave my ADR's and what the cost of each DxDDP credit is and asked you, or anyone, to show me where I was losing money.

 

[Ratzo]

You can't go over on the Disney plan. You are guaranteed 2 meals and a snack per day. Not so on your plan, so its not what I am looking for.

Go to 2 point restaurants and you will go over.

Every time someone presents their reasons for why the dining plan works for them, shows you examples of how it saves the money, and you discount them as wrong. OVER and OVER. Pretty much every post you have made here.

So no examples then?

But you didn't answer me at all. I gave my ADR's and what the cost of each DxDDP credit is and asked you, or anyone, to show me where I was losing money.

I thought you questioned why avoiding 1 point restaurants was important on the DxDDP? I don't see your post where you gave all the ADR's. You also "gamed" the DxDDP, right? You were the one who shared the points within a large group? In other words, the DxDDP was a BAD deal for EVERYONE to get, so you found a way to cut back on the points by applying it to only a few and shared it among more people than intended. Brilliant work, but you need to be clear if you're going to recommend the plan to others.

BTW, another caveat to these examples is all dining on DxDDP must be TS; No QS meals. Granted, you probably won't be getting the DxDDP unless you want all TS, but it's a good idea to let people know upfront what their strategy should be.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

I truly believe your numbers are off or you're calculating what you intended to do vs. what actually happened. But, I admit I could be wrong. Since you say you already calculated all this precisely for you last trip without using averages, you should create a thread and post your numbers as an example how you did it for other people to follow.

Gave you numbers, but they were "off"

The only thing the DDP does is provide a psychological trick that benefits Disney, not the consumer. On the other hand, you DO have to limit your dining choices to even hope to break-even using the dining plan.

Called what they perceived as benefit a psychological trick

You're actually agreeing with me. People have said in this thread that it's simply a matter of adding up meal costs. It is not! The fact so many people who claim they saved money cannot see this is a red flag that they probably didn't know what they were doing. This is why you have to show your work. People will take their advice thinking it's a good deal, but they won't have the same view of what's valuable.

Apparently people who claim to save don't know what they are doing and cannot add.

Not quite. I do assume most (not all) don't really know if they're overpaying. A lot of people in this thread think they are doing better with the DDP and claim to have done the math, but almost none can back that up with evidence. I never said the DDP is never going to provide a financial benefit. For example, if it's given for free during off-peak times, it could definitely work out better than OOP.





This is a psychological problem, not a money problem. The "I want the all-inclusive prepaid experience" is served equally well with a prepaid card as with the DDP. Neither are unlimited, but the prepaid card is less restrictive and actually ends up saving money of the DDP the majority of the time. Obviously neither option is truly all-inclusive, so it's no different than using your magic band and charging your room, but I'm trying to give people baby-steps.

People don't understand that they are overpaying, when they have shown they aren't

and perceiving benefit beyond the monetary is a psychological problem.

It's simple to share your spreadsheet for everyone's benefit. You don't have to explain it in detail since "it's just simple arithmetic," right? What if I told you I saved $1,000 paying OOP over the DDP? Do you believe me? If you asked for me to tell you exactly how I did it, would it be reasonable for me to say "no" even though I claim the answer is on my hard drive, a few clicks-away? Perhaps there's something else going on?



On the other-hand, paying extra for the SAME Disney steak because you need to delude yourself into feeling less guilty when on an expensive vacation is irrational.



Off the "appeal to emotion" logical fallacy and onto the "tu quoque" logical fallacy. Not really an improvement.



.

People who save are
Lying

deluding themselves

or
engaging in logical fallacy



All of these are instances where you discount people's math or justification for their reasons with disparaging remarks.

 

[eeyoresmom]

I thought you questioned why avoiding 1 point restaurants was important on the DxDDP? I don't see your post where you gave all the ADR's. You also "gamed" the DxDDP, right? You were the one who shared the points within a large group? In other words, the DxDDP was a BAD deal for EVERYONE to get, so you found a way to cut back on the points by applying it to only a few and shared it among more people than intended. Brilliant work, but you need to be clear if you're going to recommend the plan to others.

BTW, another caveat to these examples is all dining on DxDDP must be TS; No QS meals. Granted, you probably won't be getting the DxDDP unless you want all TS, but it's a good idea to let people know upfront what their strategy should be

You are putting wods in my mouth to defend your position. I never recommended it to others. I gave an example of how it could be beneficial without making a blanket statement that any DDP is good value or bad value, OR insulting others intelligence for using it.