Updated ADA rules posted today

[Justin Jett]

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=37553103

 

[KPeveler]

OK, there was a lot of legal jargon, but my understanding is that a Segway is NOT classified as a wheelchair by the government, but it is called an "other mobility device" or something like that. In addition, the "other wheelchair" designation does NOT get the same access as wheelchairs? Businesses have the right to not allow them in? Can someone translate these for me?

 

[KPeveler]

Ok, something I read about this said this is an opinion, but not law yet... And that Segways would be allowed where pedestrians are, but that people get to ask whether it is needed for a disability and how it helps with their disability (like with service dogs), and that they can set a speed limit... I bet it is not allowed in ANY line, and it wouldnt have to be, just like they can keep ECVs out of lines if they feel they cannot be safely maneuvered through it and stored at the exit...

This is just going to make things more of a mess...

 

[Justin Jett]

OK, there was a lot of legal jargon, but my understanding is that a Segway is NOT classified as a wheelchair by the government, but it is called an "other mobility device" or something like that. In addition, the "other wheelchair" designation does NOT get the same access as wheelchairs? Businesses have the right to not allow them in? Can someone translate these for me?

The rule adopts a two-tiered approach to mobility devices, drawing distinctions between wheelchairs and "other power-driven mobility devices." "Other power-driven mobility devices" include a range of devices not designed for individuals with mobility impairments, such as the Segway® PT, but which are often used by individuals with disabilities as their mobility device of choice. Wheelchairs (and other devices designed for use by people with mobility impairments) must be permitted in all areas open to pedestrian use. "Other power-driven mobility devices" must be permitted to be used unless the covered entity can demonstrate that such use would fundamentally alter its programs, services, or activities, create a direct threat, or create a safety hazard. The rule also lists factors to consider in making this determination. This approach accommodates both the legitimate business interest in the safe operation of a facility and the growing use of the Segway® PT as a mobility device by returning veterans and others who are using the Segway® PT as their mobility aid of choice.

Basically, if a business is able to prove that the Segway is a hazard, they can deni access.

 

[Justin Jett]

Ok, something I read about this said this is an opinion, but not law yet...

According to the ADA website, these new rules become effective six months from today.

 

[Justin Jett]

Can someone translate these for me?

I have E-Mailed Jack (board name "jcb") for a translation.

 

[KPeveler]

What this sounds like will happen is that we will end up with a lawsuit about what is "open pedestrian areas." Technically they can claim that disney is not open pedestrian areas because people pay to get in there... and queues are DEFINITELY not open pedestrian areas... I forsee another lawsuit...

 

[Justin Jett]

What this sounds like will happen is that we will end up with a lawsuit about what is "open pedestrian areas." Technically they can claim that disney is not open pedestrian areas because people pay to get in there... and queues are DEFINITELY not open pedestrian areas... I forsee another lawsuit...

Oh yes, unfortunatly, that will most likely happen. However, I will always be very vocal against Segways in theme parks.

 

[KPeveler]

Oh yes, unfortunatly, that will most likely happen. However, I will always be very vocal against Segways in theme parks.

Me too! I can just see people saying they need them all the way to the theatre door, and then parking them in the wheelchair spots and sitting in the seats... the first time I see an empty Segway blocking me from making it into a show I was waiting for, I am going to lose it!

 

[Justin Jett]

Ok, something I read about this said this is an opinion, but not law yet.

On July 26, 2010, the Department will publish four advance notices of proposed rulemaking (ANPRMs) in the Federal Register seeking public comment on the topics addressed by these fact sheets. Comments will be accepted for 180 days.

 

[dclfun]

Oh yes, unfortunatly, that will most likely happen. However, I will always be very vocal against Segways in theme parks.

I'm with you 100%. I don't think they should be allowed at Disney. I have enough trouble stopping my chair when people dart in front of me, there are often huge crowds with small children, and there is no way for a CM to determine someone's driving ability and whether or not they can operate a Segway safely in such a crowd with unpredictable foot traffic. I can't even imagine someone who might have impaired judgement, vision, etc. possibly driving a Segway that goes up to 12 MPH. What might be good for a few guests who would want to use one is not a good idea for all the other guests in the park.---Kathy

 

[Justin Jett]

However, I will always be very vocal against Segways in theme parks.

I posted this in another thread, but it is worth repeating:

It is very important to speak out against this lawsuit, so that Disney knows how much their efforts mean to so many disabled people, even when they may disappoint a very select few.

Life changes as my disability changes. However, the one constant in my life has been Walt Disney World! Walt Disney World remains in my life because of the care and effort Disney puts forth for disabled guests.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=34529857&postcount=44

 

[jcb]

I have E-Mailed Jack (board name "jcb") for a translation.

Thanks Skip, I think.

This documenthave almost 107,000 words. While it will take a long time to digest the regulations and explanatory materials, I think I can explain the procedures.

This is a "final rule." Some part of this document (see below) will have the same force and effect that any other federal law will have only this "law" (more formally called a "regulation") was not passed by Congress. Congress delegated to the Justice Department the authority to fill in the gaps in the law (the ADA) congress actually passed (in 1990). Like any law, it can be challenged. The most common challenge to a regulation is that it exceeded the agency's authority under the authorizing statute. This can happen but it is rare.

The section that will become law appears after (in this version) the words "PART 36--NONDISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF DISABILITY BY PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS AND IN COMMERCIAL FACILITIES " and before "SECTION-BY-SECTION ANALYSIS AND RESPONSE TO PUBLIC COMMENTS."

It is common for an agency, when issuing a "final rule," to explain why it wrote the regulation the way it did. This is, I think, what the pp referred to as "opinion." It isn't really "opinion" but is it does not have the same legal force as the actual regulation. It is often helpful when attempting to understand the regulation.

Hope this helps.

 

[Justin Jett]

I am unclear as to whether the new rules were actually adopted today, or just posted for public comment today.

A link to the full text of the "Final Rule" has been added to the thread I started on the podcast board tonight. (Link in original post above)

LOL I wrote this before I saw Jack's post.

 

[Justin Jett]

Thanks Skip, I think.

Hey Man,

You know I speak from the heart. It's up to you to speak from a law book.

 

[jcb]

I am unclear as to whether the new rules were actually adopted today, or just posted for public comment today.

A link to the full text of the "Final Rule" has been added to the thread I started on the podcast board tonight. (Link in original post above)

The rules were released today. Other being the 20th anniversary of the ADA, today is of no significance.

The justice department rules take effect six months after they are officially published in the federal register. It usually takes about a week or two to get something like this published in the federal register. These are so long, it might take a little more time.

These should not be confused with the proposed ADA regulations that were published in the federal register today.

 

[LockShockBarrel]

People already climb on unattended wheelchairs and ECVs....I can already sense problems when someone tries to use one or knocks it over.

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks for letting us know and for calling in a legal expert for us

I deal with a lot of the same kind of rules/guideline/opinions in health care that are actually the full force of law. Similar things.

Some of the stuff sounds quite reasonable in the ADA explanation until you get to thinking about it. For example, it may seem like a small thing to get rid of the definition of “common wheelchair” that was in the law that designated a size and weight for the “common wheelchair” until you realize that no matter what the definition says, the wheelchair lifts on buses can only hold a device of a certain size, that the lift can only hold a maximum of 600 pounds and that the ramps are only designed for up to 800 pounds. The new definition doesn’t change the equipment, but makes buses need to accommodate wheelchairs (to the new definition) whatever size of weight they are. With no actual definition to measure against, it also makes if difficult for bus drivers to deal with guests with devices that are larger than the equipment can handle.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

I'm with you 100%. I don't think they should be allowed at Disney. I have enough trouble stopping my chair when people dart in front of me, there are often huge crowds with small children, and there is no way for a CM to determine someone's driving ability and whether or not they can operate a Segway safely in such a crowd with unpredictable foot traffic. I can't even imagine someone who might have impaired judgement, vision, etc. possibly driving a Segway that goes up to 12 MPH. What might be good for a few guests who would want to use one is not a good idea for all the other guests in the park.---Kathy

A CM determining someones driving abilities? The only full force run-into situation I've been it at The World has been with a Segway. Being driven by a CM that drives it as part of the job. With me seeing him coming, seeing how his driving 'capacities' were, stopping a long distance away, with an almost totally open walkway in World Showcase and the CM still somehow having the talent of running into me full speed.

Yeah, no, I'm not somebody that'll advocate Segway usage in these kind of places.

 

[Justin Jett]

A CM determining someones driving abilities?

Jack posted an interesting role-playing question on the podcast board:

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=37556218&postcount=5

The role-playing question helps further explain the rule in plain English.