Universal Handles Accommodation MUCH Better Than Disney

[JLTraveling]

MODERATOR NOTE: I removed the name of the CM that was mentioned here.
Since PI is now closed, no one is going to running into the same situation/same person there. Having the name is important for the OP to be able to report their experiences, but not pertinent for any other reason. I have removed the name (a common first name, but the way), just so people don't begin to look for people with that first name.

OK, I know I'm going to get flamed here. But I think the folks on this board have a right to know of our experiences this evening.

As I'm sure you know, tonight was the last night of operations for Pleasure Island. As we were there on opening night in 1989, it seemed appropriate to be there for the last night. Our party of two consisted of myself and my chronically ill father. Without getting into too many details on his conditions, he uses an ECV and has a prescription stating that he requires a companion to assist with his care.

We knew that it would be a madhouse, but expected to receive reasonable accommodation nonetheless. We arrived at the Adventurer's Club at approximately 6:30 pm for a 7:00 pm opening. There was a line of people waiting on the steps.

The disabled entrance is on the left as you face the building, so we went to that entrance. A Cast Member soon approached us and asked if the rest of our party was waiting in line. We explained that we were a party of two, and that Dad could not be left alone. We were told that it would be unfair to the other guests in line for us to receive immediate entry. We expressed that we were perfectly willing to wait our turn (we do have a GAC for the parks, but we understand that it doesn't work at PI). However, I would be unable to leave Dad in order to go wait in line (his illness is volatile and unpredictable, and he sometimes takes a rather sudden turn for the worse).

The Cast Member told us to wait while he worked something out for us. A few minutes later, we were approached by S.[name removed], who introduced himself as the Operations Manager for PI. "Goon" would be more accurate.

Adopting threatening body language and a smug, dismissive tone, S.[name removed] informed us that our only option was for me to leave Dad sitting on the ramp and go stand in line. He also said that the wait would be several hours, possibly all night. When I reiterated to S.[name removed] that we were willing to wait, but that I could not leave Dad alone for that time frame, he told Dad that if he needed anything he could wave down a Cast Member to go get me! He told me straight out that this wasn't Disney policy, it was his policy, and that it would be enforced at the Comedy Warehouse as well. Honestly, would you leave your own father alone, at the mercy of S.[name removed] and his goon squad? What would have happened if Dad was in a wheelchair and required a "pusher?" What would S.[name removed] have done if someone in a wheelchair had arrived solo? Regardless, there was a finality in S.[name removed] tone that made us realize it was pointless to argue.

We had enough. We told S.[name removed] we wanted our money back, and he was all too eager to escort us out of the park. The apologetic guy at Guest Relations gave me the email address for higher management, whom I plan to contact.

In the meantime, rather than waste the evening, we decided to head over to Universal for Halloween Horror Nights. Our first stop was Guest Services to pick up our GAP passes (equivalent of a GAC). I also put in a positive comment for the way that disabilities are handled at Universal, and explained the situation we had just encountered at Disney. The process was simple and quick, and the team members were as terrific and friendly as could be.

Throughout the evening, we were treated outstandingly by everyone from attractions attendants to custodial staff. In addition, the Guest Services Manager sought us out in the park. She had heard about our experiences, and wanted to make sure that we were having a good time. I was highly impressed, and have never had any sort of experience like that at Disney. Nor have I ever had such a horrid experience at Universal.

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I have worked for both parks. We have been annual passholders to both parks for years, though our Disney passes are expired and we're now seriously questioning whether to renew. We've had our share of run-ins and difficulties with employees at both parks, and we understand a bad day.

What made this different, and so serious, in our minds is that S.[name removed] is an Operations Manager. He's the last word at PI before upper management. When we have had problems before, it has been with a lower level employee and management has entered the situation with the intent to resolve. S.[name removed] entered the situation with the intent to bully and intimidate.

Go ahead, flame away. *Dons flame-proof suit*

 

[bookwormde]

Sounds like you just ran into a really bad apple. Please take the time to write management and follow up about this person with his full name attached (if not his position should help anyway). With the closing he is loosing his current position anyway, but hopefully this will keep him from inflicting this type of inappropriate authority at WDW in the future.

With the Universal facilities having been built after 1992 they probably have better structural accommodations built into them than PI had. What ever is built in place should be “state of the art” in disability accommodations.

bookwormde

 

[dclfun]

I don't see any reason why someone would flame you for reporting your experience at PI. I'd heard that they weren't accommodating "regular" guests who normally use backdoor entrance due to disabilities at CW but this sounds like a really poor response since you stated several times you were willing to wait, but needed to wait with your father. I'm glad the evening turned out well at Universal- we also had a really positive experience with their GS although I still couldn't experience many attractions in their parks. A caring and understanding attitude and the willingness to work with a guest to make a positive experience goes a long way IMO.---Kathy

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I have known people who were actually Security who would introduce themselves as Operations Managers.

Years ago at MK when it was announced that Mr. Toad would be closing and there were quiet protests there were always some people observing who, when asked, said they were operations managers for Fantasyland.

It is unfortunate but you probably got a Security Officer who was out of his element and not an actual manager. And at the time was probably under a lot of pressure. But sending a letter to Disney with name, date, time and location would probably lead to his being counseled.

 

[mechurchlady]

What is sad is that they wanted a disabled person to set alone off away from the crowd to wait. What if the person was in a wheelchair and had to be pushed? It is very upsetting when people are treated as second class people who are put in a corner alone. I wonder if any laws or Disney rules were broken. Kongaloosh

 

[SueM in MN]

I agree with Cheshire Figment; what you probably got was a Security person saying he was in charge. And, he may have been telling the truth - he may have been a manager for Security.
As the others said, that doesn't excuse his actions and a good description along with date and time should get results. There are other ways they could have done things that would have been appropriate - for example, figuring out somehow where you would be in the regular line and putting some kind of 'marker' that would alert the CMs letting people in that you were in a sort of 'alternate line' and should be called. It would not take a lot of creativity to come up with a solution that would be a reasonable accommodation for the needs. Or writing up some type of return time pass (kind of like a Fastpass); they have done that for attractions, so I can't see why it would not work. I'm sure that being the last night did not help matters, but that was their problem to deal with, not yours.

As for Universal, as someone pointed out, since that park was built much after PI, MK or Epcot, they do have better ability to provide accommodations. I do know though, that there are people who have had bad experiences at Universal too, our family included.
Our experiences were a long time ago, but left a bad enough set of feelings that we have not been back to Universal. My DD uses a wheelchair because she can't walk, but she has additional needs that make waiting in line difficult. We were not asking to be let right in and would have even had part of our party wait in line and part wait with her if they could give an alternate place to wait outside of the line, or at least out of the sun. The answer we got over and over was "Our lines are wheelchair accessible and meet the ADA guidelines for accessibility. We are not obligated to provide anything more than that."
I do know that they have added "family waiting rooms" for some attractions since then, and that people since our experience have reported some good experiences there. Maybe some day we will return, but since most attractions there are not accessible/appropriate to her needs anyway, we have no overwhelming interest in going back.

 

[Hook's Girl]

Actually the person you spoke with is in fact in charge of all operations at Downtown Disney. I'm sorry you had a bad encounter with him.

On the flip side my encounters with this Cast Member have been nothing but positive and he has actually helped further my career at Disney. I have never felt intimidated and he always smiles at me. He is a very experienced Cast Member who has been working for the themepark division (in both California and Florida) for many years. He will be in upper management one day. This was certainly not a Security host.

 

[AJKMOM]

Actually the person you spoke with is in fact in charge of all operations at Downtown Disney. I'm sorry you had a bad encounter with him.

On the flip side my encounters with this Cast Member have been nothing but positive and he has actually helped further my career at Disney. I have never felt intimidated and he always smiles at me. He is a very experienced Cast Member who has been working for the themepark division (in both California and Florida) for many years. He will be in upper management one day. This was certainly not a Security host.

Sounds like he wasn't a very good representative of Disney hospitallity, either! In all our trips to WDW with our autistic son, we have never encountered rudeness of any kind, that's why we keep going back. I'm glad I was never a fan of PI, because I would have hated running into S. He sounds like someone I would make sure to complain about. If he is, in fact, headed up the Disney management ladder, I hope he gets counseling to understand there are all kinds of people that pay money to vacation with Disney, even those with disabilities.

 

[BillSears]

I'm very sorry to hear that you didn't get to see the AC on it's final night. It would have been wonderful for you to attend both the first and last nights and it's a shame that it didn't work out for you.

It's a little late but I would have handled it this way...I would have gotten in line with my Father and then when the line reached the bottom of the steps he could have used the ramp while you walked up the steps. Or if needed you could talk to those around you and asked for them to hold your place in line while you both used the ramp.

I'm sure last night was a very emotional night for the guests and the CMs at Pleasure Island. This combination probably caused many instances where people bounced raw emotions off of each other creating both good and bad experiences. I'm sorry that your experience turned into one of the bad ones.

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm very sorry to hear that you didn't get to see the AC on it's final night. It would have been wonderful for you to attend both the first and last nights and it's a shame that it didn't work out for you.

It's a little late but I would have handled it this way...I would have gotten in line with my Father and then when the line reached the bottom of the steps he could have used the ramp while you walked up the steps. Or if needed you could talk to those around you and asked for them to hold your place in line while you both used the ramp.

I'm sure last night was a very emotional night for the guests and the CMs at Pleasure Island. This combination probably caused many instances where people bounced raw emotions off of each other creating both good and bad experiences. I'm sorry that your experience turned into one of the bad ones.

That would seem to be a very reasonable accommodation.
Sorry things did not work out for the OP.

I do think you are right with the emotions getting the better of people.

 

[merryweather20]

Actually the person you spoke with is in fact in charge of all operations at Downtown Disney. I'm sorry you had a bad encounter with him.

On the flip side my encounters with this Cast Member have been nothing but positive and he has actually helped further my career at Disney. I have never felt intimidated and he always smiles at me. He is a very experienced Cast Member who has been working for the themepark division (in both California and Florida) for many years. He will be in upper management one day. This was certainly not a Security host.

I'm not sure where you are seeing the upper management potential here. Beyond the obvious customer service problem, S took on a rather substantial liability in saying that a CM would be availabe, to grab his son in the event of an emergency. Such a risky person would not last long in my business thats for sure.

 

[JLTraveling]

I'm very sorry to hear that you didn't get to see the AC on it's final night. It would have been wonderful for you to attend both the first and last nights and it's a shame that it didn't work out for you.

It's a little late but I would have handled it this way...I would have gotten in line with my Father and then when the line reached the bottom of the steps he could have used the ramp while you walked up the steps. Or if needed you could talk to those around you and asked for them to hold your place in line while you both used the ramp.

I'm sure last night was a very emotional night for the guests and the CMs at Pleasure Island. This combination probably caused many instances where people bounced raw emotions off of each other creating both good and bad experiences. I'm sorry that your experience turned into one of the bad ones.

That certainly would have been an option, and it's too bad we didn't think of it on the spot. We did come up with several solutions, including the written Fastpass-style document, as well as handing the last person in line some sort of marker (you know those wait time things they send through the attraction queues? Something like that), so that the CMs would know when to send us in. S. was not amenable to anything like that.

Part of the problem was that the line was ON the steps. Had there been a line TO the steps, we could have waited together. But they were letting in one or two people at a time, and those on the steps were literally waiting for hours (we had watched the process on Wednesday night, when we were there for a movie, and decided not to go then).

To Hook's Girl: I'm glad this person helped out your career, but he leaves a LOT to be desired in guest service. I think he may have slipped through the cracks with that attitude, and as someone else pointed out, he's a liability issue waiting to happen. The first time something serious happens to someone on his watch, that fast track to upper management is going to end. Just my opinion, of course.

Thanks to all for the support. I will be composing my letter to Disney this evening, and I will let you know if I get any results.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Follow - up

Today I was at a convention planning meeting and one of the other people at the meeting went to AC last night. He told us he got in line at 8:45 and did not get into the club until 12:45am, a four hour wait. He said they finally threw everyone out at 2:00.

 

[Talking Hands]

I knew that the last weekend would be a madhouse and it is precisely why I went for my last time 2 weeks before. Since I use a wheelchair and require sign language interpreting I was not going to even try to go the last weekend. They were absolutely marvelous to me and I was treated like a queen by both the PI manager and managers at CW and AC.
Btw it was so crowded at AC that I waited upstairs and watched the goings on from the balcony and several of the club members came up and said hi.

 

[dclfun]

I have a dear friend who visits CW every time she's at WDW which is at least 6 times or more a year along with a local guest who had always used the back door access due to a disability that isn't apparent. They both visited CW on the last night, arriving separately. They were also separated in line with the one guest having to sit and wait on a park bench while the other stood in the line. It worked out okay for them but it sounds like the "line" situations which were quite long and stressful were being handled the same way at both clubs. Apparently due to the crowds, backdoor access ( which used to let disabled guests in first due to the stairs) was done away with a few weeks ago. Those who were waiting for the next show at CW in the "accessible" area were supposed to be let in first since they'd been waiting just as long as others...only they were waiting on a bench or in a special area. I guess there's no real "legal" problem with separating adults although when there's a medical issue involved, it seems like for the OP there should've been a different solution.---Kathy

 

[bookwormde]

Accommodations that separate disabled individuals from family, caregivers or friends for other than brief periods have never been acceptable under ADA interpretations since it is not an equivalent experience to other guests not to mention hazardous for those who need monitoring or assistance. When there is a larger group, splitting has been acceptable where practicality limits the ability for the group to stay together but the disabled individual is never isolated.

Who ever made up this procedure obviously was not properly trained to do so and did not have it reviewed by the department at WDW, which handles these issues. If this was not a “rouge” activity it is just really poor management.

bookwormde

 

[JLTraveling]

Follow Up: I received a brief email from Guest Communications this morning, requesting my phone number. Dad and I will be talking to them on speaker phone, and I will let you know what happens.

Thanks for all the support!!

 

[Hook's Girl]

Follow - up

Today I was at a convention planning meeting and one of the other people at the meeting went to AC last night. He told us he got in line at 8:45 and did not get into the club until 12:45am, a four hour wait. He said they finally threw everyone out at 2:00.

People were lining up at 8:00 in the morning!! Wow!

 

[kaytieeldr]

I am not defending Disney or arguing with the OP, but last weekend WAS "unique" at Pleasure Island.

Yes, the first Guest for Adventurers Club Saturday was in line at 7:55 AM. When I got to Guest Relations about 6:45 that night to buy my ticket (which, by the way, has a disclaimer on the back indicating it is not valid on 12/31, nothing about all the nights between now and then), Adventurers Club was already at capacity. I didn't even try to enter - understandable, since my ultimate goal was to see the VERY last Comedy Warehouse show, the same goal as one of the friends Kathy describes.

Anyway, we did go Friday night. One friend and I were allowed to use the ramp before the first show. We made sure to note who we would have been behind in the regular/stair line - but there were probably only thirty people in line at the time. Keeping track this was would have likely been close to impossible for the OP and his dad, and there's no guarantee that the people they would be 'virtually' behind would remember. The line would have been SO long, nobody joining afterwards would be aware there was technically another party ahead of them.

We left to meet some people at a restaurant, and got back to Pleasure Island around 10. Two of them went to one of the dance clubs, and the other three of us were back in line by 10:25. This time, all on our own, without any input from any CM, we split up - me up the ramp, them in line, so there was NO question when it would be my turn to enter.

The Cast Members were updating the crowd count every fifteen minutes - it's just that nobody was leaving, and this wasn't even the last night. We finally got into the building and downstairs, after the third-to-last show had started - and got in to the next-to-last show on the next-to-last night.

One big problem is, the AC used to exit Guests to the outside and require you to come back in through the front entrance to see another show. At some point this was changed, and Guests could simply exit into the hallway by the restrooms then go right back into the bar and get in for the next show. With few people leaving the building, an equal few could be allowed to enter.

While it's good that the OP is so positively impressed with Universal's treatment and concern, it's not really a valid comparison. It's sort of like comparing apples and pears. Pleasure Island wasn't a theme park. Disney's theme parks are, for the most part (certain CMs excepted) wonderful to otherly-abled Guests. And comparing PI to CityWalk also wouldn't be accurate, given that CityWalk isn't the same set-up that PI was. A more reasonable comparison would be Pleasure Island and Church Street Station.

 

[merryweather20]

I am not defending Disney or arguing with the OP, but last weekend WAS "unique" at Pleasure Island.

Yes, the first Guest for Adventurers Club Saturday was in line at 7:55 AM. When I got to Guest Relations about 6:45 that night to buy my ticket (which, by the way, has a disclaimer on the back indicating it is not valid on 12/31, nothing about all the nights between now and then), Adventurers Club was already at capacity. I didn't even try to enter - understandable, since my ultimate goal was to see the VERY last Comedy Warehouse show, the same goal as one of the friends Kathy describes.

Anyway, we did go Friday night. One friend and I were allowed to use the ramp before the first show. We made sure to note who we would have been behind in the regular/stair line - but there were probably only thirty people in line at the time. Keeping track this was would have likely been close to impossible for the OP and his dad, and there's no guarantee that the people they would be 'virtually' behind would remember. The line would have been SO long, nobody joining afterwards would be aware there was technically another party ahead of them.

We left to meet some people at a restaurant, and got back to Pleasure Island around 10. Two of them went to one of the dance clubs, and the other three of us were back in line by 10:25. This time, all on our own, without any input from any CM, we split up - me up the ramp, them in line, so there was NO question when it would be my turn to enter.

The Cast Members were updating the crowd count every fifteen minutes - it's just that nobody was leaving, and this wasn't even the last night. We finally got into the building and downstairs, after the third-to-last show had started - and got in to the next-to-last show on the next-to-last night.

One big problem is, the AC used to exit Guests to the outside and require you to come back in through the front entrance to see another show. At some point this was changed, and Guests could simply exit into the hallway by the restrooms then go right back into the bar and get in for the next show. With few people leaving the building, an equal few could be allowed to enter.

While it's good that the OP is so positively impressed with Universal's treatment and concern, it's not really a valid comparison. It's sort of like comparing apples and pears. Pleasure Island wasn't a theme park. Disney's theme parks are, for the most part (certain CMs excepted) wonderful to otherly-abled Guests. And comparing PI to CityWalk also wouldn't be accurate, given that CityWalk isn't the same set-up that PI was. A more reasonable comparison would be Pleasure Island and Church Street Station.

Maybe you misunderstood the OP's post he simply wanted to wait with his Dad... nothing fancy. There's no reason someone should have to wait in line by themselves just because they use a wheel-chair, even without a safety concern (like the OP had).