United plane diverted to ORD after scuffle over use of "Knee Defender"

[robinb]

Two passengers got into an argument when one used a "Knee Defender" to stop the passenger in front of him from reclining her seat. The plane was diverted to Chicago and both passengers were ejected from the plane.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/today...fender-fight-united-flight-diverted/14609109/

http://www.businessinsider.com/knee-defender-2014-8

What do we think of this? Should passengers be allowed to use the Knee Defender? Would the courtesy card work if someone behind you used one?

I do recline, but I try to recline as little as possible as slowly as possible.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Crazy!

I never recline - it is a small space - why would I want to encroach and make another passenger's space even smaller??

But who in their right mind thinks throwing a glass of water on someone because they are using a knee defender is proper behavior I think both pax are wrong - the guy should have listened to the flight attendant. Perhaps if he asked nicely of the woman in front of him to not recline, she would have said ok.

 

[Chief Powhatan]

I did not think these things were still around.

I confess that if someone reclines in front of me, they are going to get the back of their seat "accidentally" kicked the entire flight.

 

[Tuffcookie]

It's not even like you recline that much.

TC

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

Knee Defenders were banned from United at least 10 years ago and I believe aren't allowed on any airline, so any discussion of this non-issue would be moot. I don't know why they are still being sold.

The woman who was not able to recline should not have behaved like a 3 year old. She should have let UA handle the situation and walked away with some nice compensation. Now she'll probably be banned from flying UA.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

I did not think these things were still around.

I confess that if someone reclines in front of me, they are going to get the back of their seat "accidentally" kicked the entire flight.

Wow - that is extremely rude. Passengers have a right to recline (although I rarely do) and you can bet if you tried these childish antics with me, I would be up talking with a flight attendant ASAP.

Did it ever occur you to act like an adult and politely ask the person in front of you not to recline so much?

 

[LilyWDW]

I did not think these things were still around.

I confess that if someone reclines in front of me, they are going to get the back of their seat "accidentally" kicked the entire flight.

It is really sad that you would react like that. I recline. Not all the way, but I do a bit. Why? Because I can't physically sit in that seat with it all the way up and not end up with back and hip issues. So, once I am allowed to, I do push it back a little bit to take the pressure off.

If you kicked me, I would be getting an FA to deal with you.

I think people need to EXPECT others to recline. The seats recline so it only makes sense that some will use that ability. Expecting them not to is just silly and setting yourself up for a bad time.

 

[robinb]

Knee Defenders were banned from United at least 10 years ago and I believe aren't allowed on any airline, so any discussion of this non-issue would be moot. I don't know why they are still being sold.

The woman who was not able to recline should not have behaved like a 3 year old. She should have let UA handle the situation and walked away with some nice compensation. Now she'll probably be banned from flying UA.

Do you think she would have been compensated? I'm not so sure. She certainly shouldn't have thrown water in his face but I can understand her frustration and anger. The passenger using the device was asked by the FA to remove it and he refused. That may have pushed even the most laid back passenger over the edge, especially if they argued about it prior to bringing the FA into it.

How long do you think it's going to be before she's on one of the morning TV shows?

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

Do you think she would have been compensated? I'm not so sure. She certainly shouldn't have thrown water in his face but I can understand her frustration and anger. The passenger using the device was asked by the FA to remove it and he refused. That may have pushed even the most laid back passenger over the edge, especially if they argued about it prior to bringing the FA into it.

How long do you think it's going to be before she's on one of the morning TV shows?

I'm a UA 1K and am very familiar with their policies and I can assure you that if she sent an email complaint to UA, she would have been offered some miles or an ecertificate.

I don't care how frustrated she was, she should have let UA handle the situation.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

The man bought the "$21.95 gadget called a Knee Defender" wasted his money and is a jerk for buying the product. Of course, the woman should not have thrown the glass of water.

A few other comments...

"Knee Defender" is a stupid, inaccurate product name. Most airplane seats are hinged around knee level. When a seat is reclined, the knee room for the passenger behind that seat does not change by any appreciable amount. However, the "air space" at face and chest level is decreased. It can be very hard or impossible to use a laptop computer on the tray table when the seat in front is declined -- but knee room really isn't the issue. (I'm 6' 2" and appreciate every bit of knee room I can get. However, when the seat in front of me is reclined, my knees do not suffer any more than they already do from the tightly packed rows of seats.)

Airplane seats are designed to recline. Airlines invite passengers to "sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight." I tend not to recline my seat during daytime flights because the upright position is better for working on my laptop. But at night, I recline my seat, and the passenger in front of me and behind me usually does too.

The new economy seats on American have an ingenious design. They recline in a completely different way. The top of the seat-back does not move back into the space of the passenger sitting behind it. Instead, the seat and the bottom of the seat-back move forward, leaving the top of the seat-back more-or-less where it was before the seat was reclined. Passengers reclining their seats reduce their own space (their own knee room and legroom) instead of reclining into the space of the passengers behind them. You'll find this economy seat on new 737 jets, but American still has a lot of older planes without these new seats.

 

[n2mm]

I did not think these things were still around. I confess that if someone reclines in front of me, they are going to get the back of their seat "accidentally" kicked the entire flight.

Wow, really? I recline my seat slightly and slowly. After back surgery a few years ago it get uncomfortable sitting straight up for an extended period. I'm respectful to the person behind me, but won't make myself miserable either.

 

[goofy4tink]

My dh is 6'4". His legs are very long, with an average torso. There was the time we flew when the woman in front of him, in the aisle seat, reclined her seat as soon as humanly possible. Well, the seat didn't recline as far as she thought it would. Why? It was up against my dh's knees. So, she brought it up and promptly reclined it again, very forcefully. This happened two more times. My dh leaned over, to the side, and informed her that her seat wasn't going back any further unless he 1. Changed his seat, or 2. Chopped his legs off.....neither of which was happening. She was not amused and asked the FA if she could change seats. Nothing available that met her needs......aisle, forward if her current seat.

I seldom recline. Just about the only time I do is if the person in front if me fully reclines. I tend to feel very claustrophobic when the seat in front if me is fully reclined.

I usually will look behind me first to see who is behind me. If it's a child or short person, then I recline a bit. A taller person? Usually not.

 

[DebbieB]

If the FA told him to remove them and he didn't, I don't understand why he wasn't arrested for the not listening to the flight crew.

They were both in Economy Plus, which is 4 extra inches of leg room, why would she be reclining into his knees?

I know Delta advertises their Economy Comfort as having extra recline space.

 

[bumbershoot]

It's not even like you recline that much.

TC

Ooh, I have to disagree with that. On some planes I find myself way too close to the top of the recliner's head. And I'm not even tall in any sense of the word, but the recliner's head is just RIGHT there in my face when they fully recline.

That's very interesting.

 

[pigletto]

My husband is 6ft 2 and has had to endure plenty of flights with the chair in front of him squishing his knees. We've always felt that was just the price of flying and not paying for extra legroom (which we also do when we can). I try to be courteous and not put my seat back and I encourage the kids not too either. But ultimately, they are designed to go back and you can't count on someone not reclining.

 

[sympatico]

The new economy seats on American have an ingenious design. They recline in a completely different way. The top of the seat-back does not move back into the space of the passenger sitting behind it. Instead, the seat and the bottom of the seat-back move forward, leaving the top of the seat-back more-or-less where it was before the seat was reclined. Passengers reclining their seats reduce their own space (their own knee room and legroom) instead of reclining into the space of the passengers behind them. You'll find this economy seat on new 737 jets, but American still has a lot of older planes without these new seats.

That's a good idea. I don't find my legroom decreases but it sure decreases your space when the seat ahead of you is fully reclined. You can't do anything on your tray table and the tv on the seatback is about 8 inches from you eyes. It's kind of hard to focus when it's that close.

 

[North of Mouse]

I confess that if someone reclines in front of me, they are going to get the back of their seat "accidentally" kicked the entire flight.

Well, you would have a 'spastic' foot by the time we landed if I were in front of you! How childish! I don't recline UNLESS the passenger in front of me does, then it's almost necessary because of the limited space. I would have the 'restraint' though not to throw water at you! I would just let the FA deal with you, and I'd stay out of it.

The first passenger was wrong to 'forcibly' keep the passenger in front of him from reclining, the second passenger was wrong for reciprocating in such a provocative way. She should have left that in the hands of the attendants. So, they were both wrong for something that began as 'petty' for both of them.

Bet they're both having a little cooling off time now though!

It's really ridiculous how close the seats are, but 'each' passenger is entirely within their rights to recline - a couple inches. But that 'does' give you a little extra breathing room if the seat in front of you reclines - it's like the domino effect!!

 

[rlduvall]

I always turn around and ask the individual behind me if they mind if I recline my seat. Sure I don't have to, but it's a nice gesture which is meant to let them know I want them to be comfortable, too - it's not just about me. I honestly have never been told no yet.

As for this situation, I think the knee defender guy was an unbelievable jerk, but throwing a glass of water on him was absolutely ridiculous.

 

[natfrac]

I never recline my seat because I do not feel right encroaching on other people's space. With airline seats being so tight, I know how annoying it is to have someone else take up part of my very limited personal space and I'm not about to do that to someone else. I wouldn't resort to seat kicking, but I understand the temptation.

 

[keishashadow]

If the FA told him to remove them and he didn't, I don't understand why he wasn't arrested for the not listening to the flight crew.

They were both in Economy Plus, which is 4 extra inches of leg room, why would she be reclining into his knees?

I know Delta advertises their Economy Comfort as having extra recline space.

Chicago police & TSA collectively determined it was a non-criminal incident.

my thought is what about the rest of the passengers who very may have missed a connection?

It is supposedly banned on most major airlines but after this widely reported incident

http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2014-08-27/reclaim-your-knees-on-planes-with-the-knee-defender

traffic to the device's website crashed.