United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

I understand the things they could do if they wanted.
What I wonder is if someone say took them to court over it, whether it would it hold, given that they haven't taken action against others who have broken the policy by taking and sharing videos of the crew (look at our tube on all the safety demonstration videos etc)
I know this is very different (and a different country) but here in NZ if an employer allows a behaviour (such as sharing inappropriate photos via staff email addresses or being late) by not taking disciplinary action then you cannot discipline them later (even if the behaviour is ongoing) so you either need to a) talk to someone from the first time they are late and keep a record-even if it is 1 time 5 minutes late you need to talk with them and advise it is unacceptable or b) send out a company wide message that advises that the company has allowed x behaviours to slide and that they will no longer be tolerated then act the next time an employee does so.

My point being it would seem that United can't cry these videos break our policy when they haven't to other videos

No, they can. Lots of times companies don't pursue someone breaking policies until the person steps over the line or someone makes a big deal over violation (admittedly I'm thinking of mostly copyright laws. Authors and TV/film companies generally pretend fan fic or fan items don't exist until the fans are either making significant bank or someone brings something particularly offensive to their attention). They'll sue that individual accordingly. It may or may not spread to others. They probably won't, though, for the same reason the above companies often don't prosecute. They don't want their loyal fan base to think they are dicks.
 


His own wife reported him for the drug misuse and gay sex with a patient. Wow. I'm just at a loss for words. I don't know if I'm more surprised that she didn't divorce him or that he didn't divorce her...

The reconstructive surgery and the bit about Vietnam are both a bit...Hyperbolic. But this is going to be painful for united for sure. This guy is not going to just fade away. I don't like him any more than I did before, but I sure will enjoy watching him make Chicago and the airline squirm.
 
And now a statement from the United Pilot's Union:

FULL STATEMENT FROM UNITED AIRLINES PILOTS UNION

'As the story of United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic Airline, continues to virally circulate in the news and on social media, your United Master Executive Council (MEC) has intentionally withheld judgment because of the rapid pace at which information, both accurate and inaccurate, has been released and manipulated. The safety and well-being of our passengers is the highest priority for United pilots, and this should not have escalated into a violent encounter.

United pilots are infuriated by this event. This occurred on one of our contracted Express carriers, separately owned and operated by Republic Airline, and was ultimately caused by the grossly inappropriate response by the Chicago Department of Aviation.

'It is important to review these baseline facts:

'1. This violent incident should never have happened and was a result of gross excessive force by Chicago Department of Aviation personnel.

'2. No United employees were involved in the physical altercation.

'3. Social media ire should properly be directed at the Chicago Aviation Department.

'4. This occurred on an Express flight operated by Republic Airline, as such, the flight crew and cabin crew of Flight 3411 are employees of Republic Airline, not United Airlines.

'5. United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz has apologized for United Airlines, the actions of the Chicago Department of Aviation, and the actions of our Express partner, Republic Airline.

'On April 9, 2017, United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic, was preparing to depart Chicago O’Hare (ORD) to Louisville (SDF). Republic Airline made the decision to assign four of their crewmembers to deadhead on Flight 3411 within minutes of the scheduled departure. Although four passengers would have to be removed from this flight to accommodate the Republic crew, the goal was to get the other 70 passengers on their way to SDF and ensure a flight crew needed the next day would also be in place. By all reports, the Republic flight crew was courteous and calm throughout the event, and three passengers left the flight voluntarily for compensation. After repeatedly asking the fourth passenger to give up his seat to no avail, the gate agent requested the assistance of law enforcement.

'For reasons unknown to us, instead of trained Chicago Police Department officers being dispatched to the scene, Chicago Department of Aviation personnel responded. At this point, without direction and outside the control of United Airlines or the Republic crew, the Chicago Department of Aviation forcibly removed the passenger.

'Members of local airport law enforcement are normally important security partners who assist aircrews in ensuring the safety of everyone on the airplane. This event was an anomaly and is not how United or the police are expected to treat passengers when there is no security threat.

'United pilots have always been the true leaders of this company, and our fellow employees count on us to continue to do what we do best—deliver a world class product and safely transport our passengers around the world. We cannot let this huge distraction affect our ability to do our jobs. We have successfully flown through more turbulent times, and we will weather this storm as well.

'Ultimately, United must be measured by more than this one incident on a single United Express flight; this airline is comprised of more than 82,000 employees, including over 12,500 pilots, working every day to safely fly around the globe. For 91 years, United has earned the trust of millions of passengers, and we will continue earning their trust, despite the incident on this United Express flight. The United Airlines MEC is confident that the steps we are taking as a company will ensure this type of inexcusable event never happens again.'
 

His own wife reported him for the drug misuse and gay sex with a patient. Wow. I'm just at a loss for words. I don't know if I'm more surprised that she didn't divorce him or that he didn't divorce her...

The reconstructive surgery and the bit about Vietnam are both a bit...Hyperbolic. But this is going to be painful for united for sure. This guy is not going to just fade away. I don't like him any more than I did before, but I sure will enjoy watching him make Chicago and the airline squirm.

What does his past have to do with what happened? I'm glad United's smear campaign again him isn't working.
His statements could very well be true. He needs his teeth repaired and who knows how bad his broken nose is. He could very well need surgery to repair something correctly.
We don't know what his experience leaving Vietnam was so maybe this was worse.
You can't judge how being assaulted impacts someone. He was assaulted by officers and dragged off a plane full of people. It was recorded, has gone viral and has become a huge issue. His past has been brought up for people to also pick apart. How do you know all of this isn't worse than his experience leaving Vietnam?
 
And now a statement from the United Pilot's Union:

FULL STATEMENT FROM UNITED AIRLINES PILOTS UNION

'As the story of United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic Airline, continues to virally circulate in the news and on social media, your United Master Executive Council (MEC) has intentionally withheld judgment because of the rapid pace at which information, both accurate and inaccurate, has been released and manipulated. The safety and well-being of our passengers is the highest priority for United pilots, and this should not have escalated into a violent encounter.

United pilots are infuriated by this event. This occurred on one of our contracted Express carriers, separately owned and operated by Republic Airline, and was ultimately caused by the grossly inappropriate response by the Chicago Department of Aviation.

'It is important to review these baseline facts:

'1. This violent incident should never have happened and was a result of gross excessive force by Chicago Department of Aviation personnel.

'2. No United employees were involved in the physical altercation.

'3. Social media ire should properly be directed at the Chicago Aviation Department.

'4. This occurred on an Express flight operated by Republic Airline, as such, the flight crew and cabin crew of Flight 3411 are employees of Republic Airline, not United Airlines.

'5. United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz has apologized for United Airlines, the actions of the Chicago Department of Aviation, and the actions of our Express partner, Republic Airline.

'On April 9, 2017, United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic, was preparing to depart Chicago O’Hare (ORD) to Louisville (SDF). Republic Airline made the decision to assign four of their crewmembers to deadhead on Flight 3411 within minutes of the scheduled departure. Although four passengers would have to be removed from this flight to accommodate the Republic crew, the goal was to get the other 70 passengers on their way to SDF and ensure a flight crew needed the next day would also be in place. By all reports, the Republic flight crew was courteous and calm throughout the event, and three passengers left the flight voluntarily for compensation. After repeatedly asking the fourth passenger to give up his seat to no avail, the gate agent requested the assistance of law enforcement.

'For reasons unknown to us, instead of trained Chicago Police Department officers being dispatched to the scene, Chicago Department of Aviation personnel responded. At this point, without direction and outside the control of United Airlines or the Republic crew, the Chicago Department of Aviation forcibly removed the passenger.

'Members of local airport law enforcement are normally important security partners who assist aircrews in ensuring the safety of everyone on the airplane. This event was an anomaly and is not how United or the police are expected to treat passengers when there is no security threat.

'United pilots have always been the true leaders of this company, and our fellow employees count on us to continue to do what we do best—deliver a world class product and safely transport our passengers around the world. We cannot let this huge distraction affect our ability to do our jobs. We have successfully flown through more turbulent times, and we will weather this storm as well.

'Ultimately, United must be measured by more than this one incident on a single United Express flight; this airline is comprised of more than 82,000 employees, including over 12,500 pilots, working every day to safely fly around the globe. For 91 years, United has earned the trust of millions of passengers, and we will continue earning their trust, despite the incident on this United Express flight. The United Airlines MEC is confident that the steps we are taking as a company will ensure this type of inexcusable event never happens again.'
I don't believe anyone faulted the United pilots, did they?? But there is NO WAY I would absolve United here. They set all of this in motion with their nonsense, inflexible policies and absolute mismanagement of employee movements, etc.

"United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz has apologized for United Airlines" -- you mean AFTER he said they did nothing wrong and the passenger was belligerent?? Way too much defense of United in this statement by the pilots.

There is clearly blame to be shared with "Chicago Department of Aviation personnel". But there is NO WAY that United is innocent here.
 
Totally agree. If United had done what they needed to get volunteers they could have avoided the entire incident. Glad to see that passenger rights have been discussed so that the policy of involuntary bumping can hopefully come to an end.
 
I don't believe anyone faulted the United pilots, did they?? But there is NO WAY I would absolve United here. They set all of this in motion with their nonsense, inflexible policies and absolute mismanagement of employee movements, etc.

"United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz has apologized for United Airlines" -- you mean AFTER he said they did nothing wrong and the passenger was belligerent?? Way too much defense of United in this statement by the pilots.

There is clearly blame to be shared with "Chicago Department of Aviation personnel". But there is NO WAY that United is innocent here.

I know, right? They just brushed aside the whole issue that it is United's crap customer service and and management policies that have people outraged. They chose to deplane him. They chose to call security. The guy shares some of the blame and the security shares some of the blame, but the fact United is having a PR crisis? They brought it on themselves.
 
What does his past have to do with what happened? I'm glad United's smear campaign again him isn't working.
His statements could very well be true. He needs his teeth repaired and who knows how bad his broken nose is. He could very well need surgery to repair something correctly.
We don't know what his experience leaving Vietnam was so maybe this was worse.
You can't judge how being assaulted impacts someone. He was assaulted by officers and dragged off a plane full of people. It was recorded, has gone viral and has become a huge issue. His past has been brought up for people to also pick apart. How do you know all of this isn't worse than his experience leaving Vietnam?

He may need surgery but it's all in the language when comes to a statement like this. Come on. 2 teeth and a broken nose? That's pretty minor surgery and not what I would have considered "reconstructive". And yes, I've had dental surgery. I don't go around telling folks it was "reconstructive surgery".

And I don't know if it was worse than fleeing Vietnam, but in that case, presumably he was a political refugee fleeing because the alternative was death or imprisonment. The alternative here was standing up and walking off that flight. If he had acted like an adult, he would NOT have gotten hurt. He may have gotten home 1 day late. Oh, the horror.

(The other bit- I agree that his past doesn't apply here but it confirms for me, at least, that he's got some kind of judgment issues. I don't like him. But I do hope he takes United to the cleaners).
 
And now a statement from the United Pilot's Union:

FULL STATEMENT FROM UNITED AIRLINES PILOTS UNION

'As the story of United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic Airline, continues to virally circulate in the news and on social media, your United Master Executive Council (MEC) has intentionally withheld judgment because of the rapid pace at which information, both accurate and inaccurate, has been released and manipulated. The safety and well-being of our passengers is the highest priority for United pilots, and this should not have escalated into a violent encounter.

United pilots are infuriated by this event. This occurred on one of our contracted Express carriers, separately owned and operated by Republic Airline, and was ultimately caused by the grossly inappropriate response by the Chicago Department of Aviation.

'It is important to review these baseline facts:

'1. This violent incident should never have happened and was a result of gross excessive force by Chicago Department of Aviation personnel.

'2. No United employees were involved in the physical altercation.

'3. Social media ire should properly be directed at the Chicago Aviation Department.

'4. This occurred on an Express flight operated by Republic Airline, as such, the flight crew and cabin crew of Flight 3411 are employees of Republic Airline, not United Airlines.

'5. United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz has apologized for United Airlines, the actions of the Chicago Department of Aviation, and the actions of our Express partner, Republic Airline.

'On April 9, 2017, United Express Flight 3411, operated by Republic, was preparing to depart Chicago O’Hare (ORD) to Louisville (SDF). Republic Airline made the decision to assign four of their crewmembers to deadhead on Flight 3411 within minutes of the scheduled departure. Although four passengers would have to be removed from this flight to accommodate the Republic crew, the goal was to get the other 70 passengers on their way to SDF and ensure a flight crew needed the next day would also be in place. By all reports, the Republic flight crew was courteous and calm throughout the event, and three passengers left the flight voluntarily for compensation. After repeatedly asking the fourth passenger to give up his seat to no avail, the gate agent requested the assistance of law enforcement.

'For reasons unknown to us, instead of trained Chicago Police Department officers being dispatched to the scene, Chicago Department of Aviation personnel responded. At this point, without direction and outside the control of United Airlines or the Republic crew, the Chicago Department of Aviation forcibly removed the passenger.

'Members of local airport law enforcement are normally important security partners who assist aircrews in ensuring the safety of everyone on the airplane. This event was an anomaly and is not how United or the police are expected to treat passengers when there is no security threat.

'United pilots have always been the true leaders of this company, and our fellow employees count on us to continue to do what we do best—deliver a world class product and safely transport our passengers around the world. We cannot let this huge distraction affect our ability to do our jobs. We have successfully flown through more turbulent times, and we will weather this storm as well.

'Ultimately, United must be measured by more than this one incident on a single United Express flight; this airline is comprised of more than 82,000 employees, including over 12,500 pilots, working every day to safely fly around the globe. For 91 years, United has earned the trust of millions of passengers, and we will continue earning their trust, despite the incident on this United Express flight. The United Airlines MEC is confident that the steps we are taking as a company will ensure this type of inexcusable event never happens again.'
Kinda interesting that in one moment they are pointing the finger at Republic Airline stating the flight crew and whatnot were not United employees and then they switch at the end to speaking in regards to United....but then they ultimately blame Chicago's Department of Aviation.....yeah ok what I'm still not seeing is (unless I missed it other than what United's CEO stated) acknowledgement of what even led up to the events. Of course people are outraged at the violent interaction..but it didn't jump to a violent interaction by the Chicago Department of Aviation ya know..there were events that led up to it;namely the bumping of the passengers to begin with and then the compensation tactic issues.

It may just be me but it sounds like a whole lot of "not me" "not me" "not me" going around. Facts are great to have but when each party has their hand in the cookie jar it doesn't mean they just get to pass around the blame.
 
He may need surgery but it's all in the language when comes to a statement like this. Come on. 2 teeth and a broken nose? That's pretty minor surgery and not what I would have considered "reconstructive". And yes, I've had dental surgery. I don't go around telling folks it was "reconstructive surgery".

And I don't know if it was worse than fleeing Vietnam, but in that case, presumably he was a political refugee fleeing because the alternative was death or imprisonment. The alternative here was standing up and walking off that flight. If he had acted like an adult, he would NOT have gotten hurt. He may have gotten home 1 day late. Oh, the horror.

(The other bit- I agree that his past doesn't apply here but it confirms for me, at least, that he's got some kind of judgment issues. I don't like him. But I do hope he takes United to the cleaners).

Sometimes acting like an adult means sticking up for yourself. What a sad world it would be if acting like an adult meant immediately and quietly just doing as you are told.
 
In fact, that's exactly what happened to my mother a few years back, and she never did get to use the vouchers (they were useless - too many restrictions). When she got bumped, it sure wasn't "voluntary", but they strongly implied that if she didn't sign, she wouldn't get anything at all. No one told her about her right to a cash equivalent!

I think regulations only get followed if the passenger knows their rights (limited as they may be).

One good thing that may come out of this, is that many more people will be demanding their cash equivalencies!

What happened to your mother is clearly a violation of regulations. For IDB, passengers are supposed to be GIVEN a written form, or have explained to them, the airline's criteria for choosing such passengers, and the criteria for determining the amount of compensation, including the right to request it in cash. The bumped passengers can still accept vouchers if they choose to.

Yes, hopefully now most bumped passengers will know the policy.


I'm curious what happened to the other three passengers. Did they take that flight the next afternoon? And did they insist on cash? Far upthread it was reported that at least one passenger actually received $1000 in cash or vouchers.
 
Sometimes acting like an adult means sticking up for yourself. What a sad world it would be if acting like an adult meant immediately and quietly just doing as you are told.

i don't buy that argument. Do you argue if a policeman stops you and asks you to show license and registration? Being an adult isn't always about whether or not the world is fair. It's about choosing the right way to react to a given solution. Arguing with security and refusing to move was not a mature choice.
 
He may need surgery but it's all in the language when comes to a statement like this. Come on. 2 teeth and a broken nose? That's pretty minor surgery and not what I would have considered "reconstructive". And yes, I've had dental surgery. I don't go around telling folks it was "reconstructive surgery".

And I don't know if it was worse than fleeing Vietnam, but in that case, presumably he was a political refugee fleeing because the alternative was death or imprisonment. The alternative here was standing up and walking off that flight. If he had acted like an adult, he would NOT have gotten hurt. He may have gotten home 1 day late. Oh, the horror.

(The other bit- I agree that his past doesn't apply here but it confirms for me, at least, that he's got some kind of judgment issues. I don't like him. But I do hope he takes United to the cleaners).

A broken nose can sometimes require reconstructive surgery, it isn't always minor.
 
i don't buy that argument. Do you argue if a policeman stops you and asks you to show license and registration? Being an adult isn't always about whether or not the world is fair. It's about choosing the right way to react to a given solution. Arguing with security and refusing to move was not a mature choice.
Yes I would argue. Does that police officer have cause? Just because someone is in a position of authority does not mean I have to blindly follow when he or she says so.
 
Yes I would argue. Does that police officer have cause? Just because someone is in a position of authority does not mean I have to blindly follow when he or she says so.
Absolutely true. But refusal to provide them with your license and registration, refusal to keep both hands in sight, results in being dragged out of your car and arrested. So I suppose there is some kind of self righteousness in refusing but cooperating means a ticket you can contest later and continuing on your way. Refusal means arrest, probably a search of your car, and almost certainly a more expensive ticket. Which one makes more sense?
 
i don't buy that argument. Do you argue if a policeman stops you and asks you to show license and registration? Being an adult isn't always about whether or not the world is fair. It's about choosing the right way to react to a given solution. Arguing with security and refusing to move was not a mature choice.

To the bolded, my post said nothing of the sort. I'm not sure how you can turn "sometimes acting like an adult means sticking up for yourself" into " being an adult isn't always about whether or not the world is fair"
Of course the world isn't always fair. That doesn't change the fact that sometimes acting like an adult means standing up for yourself.
The police question is very vague and really not relevant. It's clearly meant as a "gotcha" question but it actually has little to do with "sometimes adult behavior is to stick up for yourself". I didn't say adults need to * always* stick up for themselves and *always* question what is asked of them.
 
i don't buy that argument. Do you argue if a policeman stops you and asks you to show license and registration? Being an adult isn't always about whether or not the world is fair. It's about choosing the right way to react to a given solution. Arguing with security and refusing to move was not a mature choice.

Depends. if I am pulled over while driving he has the right to request that.
if he stops me on the street and asks to see my license, I will refuse.

Just because a person is in uniform doesn't mean they have carte blanche to use full force in every situation. Nor does it mean I must obey every command without question. And I'm willing to accept consequences that might befall me when I stand up for what I believe to be right.
 
Yes I would argue. Does that police officer have cause? Just because someone is in a position of authority does not mean I have to blindly follow when he or she says so.

Depends. if I am pulled over while driving he has the right to request that.
if he stops me on the street and asks to see my license, I will refuse.

Just because a person is in uniform doesn't mean they have carte blanche to use full force in every situation. Nor does it mean I must obey every command without question. And I'm willing to accept consequences that might befall me when I stand up for what I believe to be right.

It's so sad to me that so many people will not only put up with abuses of power but then paint the victim as a loud mouth, troublemaker, someone looking to sue.
Giving someone authority over others and having them abuse that authority should be inexcusable. Too many people have an the mentality that "is what happens when you don't listen" " that's what you get for taking back" "next time just do what you're told".
 












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