United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

This thread is jammed packed full of speculation, things like I "heard" but can't verify, arm chair lawyers, horrible thing said about the airline pilots wife that wrote the blog, misunderstanding and some silly scenarios to promote opinions. At this point, I think we all should will do the adult thing and base our opinions off fact and not what is written here.
 
I wouldn't. I haven't. Although I'm sure there probably have been some who did. HOWEVER, I think there's a big difference between asking to have *your* seat be reassigned (for whatever reason) and asking for *the other person's* seat to be reassigned to suit your preferences.

An airline accommodating a discriminatory request is something that seems well beyond anything reasonable. Requesting a meal to fit religious/cultural beliefs is one thing, but asking an airline employee to discriminate against someone in a protected class is something else. They chose to fly in a plane with a general population that mostly doesn't follow your beliefs.

Still, I've heard of cases where passengers complained about a solo passenger, and to avoid an incident they offered the solo passenger an upgrade to business or first.
 
This thread is jammed packed full of speculation, things like I "heard" but can't verify, arm chair lawyers, horrible thing said about the airline pilots wife that wrote the blog, misunderstanding and some silly scenarios to promote opinions. At this point, I think we all should will do the adult thing and base our opinions off fact and not what is written here.
.....o_O

Normally I'm all for not taking speculation in the crazy way (probably the thread I did that the most was the Schlitterbahn one) but for reals....in this situation there is a lot more information that has been out there whereas the Schlitterbahn one there was a whole lotta nothing to go off of (and they still don't know what happened for that one).

I'm trying to understand if this is more of a "people don't see things the way I see them" issue you have with the thread or something else.

No offense meant here it just seemed coming from (Edited: word) far left field all strong type post after 47 pages through the thread.
 
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.....o_O

Normally I'm all for not taking speculation in the crazy way (probably the thread I did that the most was the Schlitterbahn one) but for reals....in this situation there is a lot more information that has been out there whereas the Schlitterbahn one there was a whole lotta nothing to go off of (and they still don't know what happened for that one).

I'm trying to understand if this is more of a "people don't see things the way I see them" issue you have with the thread or something else.

No offense meant here it just seemed coming from from left field all strong type post after 47 pages through the thread.

Absolutely no offense taken. I think what I disagree with the most is that United has been sentenced by the public without a fair trial and all the evidence taken into consideration. We don't do that with a criminal. Why do it to a corporation? It's only 4 days into it. Maybe I worked too many years in the Court system and DA's office. Who knows.

At this point in time. I feel the need to bow out of this conversation.
 

Absolutely no offense taken. I think what I disagree with the most is that United has been sentenced by the public without a fair trial and all the evidence taken into consideration. We don't do that with a criminal. Why do it to a corporation? It's only 4 days into it. Maybe I worked too many years in the Court system and DA's office. Who knows.

At this point in time. I feel the need to bow out of this conversation.

LOL, I may not like it, but the court of public opinion treats criminals that way too ;)

IMHO, the most damning evidence has come directly from the mouthpiece of United, so is hardly speculation.
 
Absolutely no offense taken. I think what I disagree with the most is that United has been sentenced by the public without a fair trial and all the evidence taken into consideration. We don't do that with a criminal. Why do it to a corporation? It's only 4 days into it. Maybe I worked too many years in the Court system and DA's office. Who knows.

At this point in time. I feel the need to bow out of this conversation.
Ok I understand your viewpoint a bit more and I can respect your feelings on the matter and your desire to exit the conversation at this time.
 
What makes you think the removal was "illegal." Their contract of carriage pretty much gives them the LEGAL right to remove anyone for any reason. Now, if could have been morally wrong, and otherwise ill-advised, but it was not "illegal" if their contract gives them that right.

Many of the legal opinions discussing it have suggested that since he had boarded he could be denied boarding this the contract opt out didn't apply.

I don't think their contract of carriage really covered this scenario and it may take the court case to get a ruling.

My limit would be the hokey pokey. I always liked the chicken dance.
But really, aside from the hyperbole, I have no issues with complying if the request is reasonable.

But here's the thing: who decides what is reasonable. That was my point with the would you take your pants off (a clearly unlikely and ridiculous request), sure everyone can agree that that is unreasonable but I can easily see the argument that asking a person to exit the seat they occupy and have paid for, to wait u til the next afternoon so someone else can use it instead as an unreasonable request.

Oh, that's a winner in the stupid reasons to change someone's flight accommodations for sure. I can understand cultural beliefs preventing the two men from wanting to sit near her & rub elbows with her. (Hey, who am I to judge. My religion puts chocolate eggs in Easter baskets, LOL.) However, the proper thing to do would to be to tell the two men that they knowingly booked those seats on a public flight, knowing that anyone including a woman could be seated in their row. Their options would be 1) They can move rows, and there may be none available that would suit them, or 2) better yet, book an entire isle to themselves on another flight.

Following from #2 above, if a flight is full and someone has booked and paid for an extra seat for any number of reasons (size, assistance dog, space), does the flight crew have the right to take that seat away?

So yes I believe that if someone doesn't want to sit next to another "type" of person for cultural beliefs they should purchase 2 extra seats, but I don't think the flight crew should change their roles, if he doesn't want a female crew to serve him them I guess he isn't getting a drink on this flight.

I don't think his religious beliefs entitle him to to anything that will negatively effect others. Ordering a suitable inflight meal, cool, ordering where other passengers can sit, or how the crew can do their jobs, nope.
What if he had been a KKK member who was asking not to sit next to an African American because of his beliefs? We would be horrified, and we wouldn't allow it-so I don't see why these men's reasons deserve anymore consideration.

As far as can they take their seat, again I think if you have paid for it it's yours and it should be treated no different than if it was occupied, if you have bought something you should get it.
there are many reasons why someone may be willing to double or triple (if getting one for each side) their cost, and if they have had the foresight to make preparations they shouldn't be left without because airlines are greedy.

I don't think United is responsible for his injuries. If it is found that the police did not follow protocol in their removal, that is their fault.
United may be guilty of breaching the contract of carriage, depending on how denial of boarding is defined. United is absolutely guilty of poor policies that created this situation, but I agree that may not rise to the point of legal culpability. Damage has been done to their brand regardless.

I am sure he could sue them for pain and suffering though.

This thread is jammed packed full of speculation, things like I "heard" but can't verify, arm chair lawyers, horrible thing said about the airline pilots wife that wrote the blog, misunderstanding and some silly scenarios to promote opinions. At this point, I think we all should will do the adult thing and base our opinions off fact and not what is written here.

OMG learn to take a joke, nothing horrible was said about the pilots wife.
 
Absolutely no offense taken. I think what I disagree with the most is that United has been sentenced by the public without a fair trial and all the evidence taken into consideration. We don't do that with a criminal. Why do it to a corporation? It's only 4 days into it. Maybe I worked too many years in the Court system and DA's office. Who knows.

At this point in time. I feel the need to bow out of this conversation.

I think, for me, it comes down to the simple fact that I don't ever want to see another human being treated the way the man in the video was being treated. Especially with the second video showing that - at most - he was passively resisting and refusing to follow orders (framed as "requests").

It's that, and it's the surprise of learning that even if I've successfully managed to get all the way onto the plane and into my seat, I can still be asked to get off, for any reason. I can randomly find my trip home delayed by a day, and the only compensation I might get are coupons I might very well never be able to use. If I want anything more by way of compensation, I'll have to fight for it. It really does give me pause. And it makes me feel like I'm not valued in any way as a customer of the airline.
 
I think, for me, it comes down to the simple fact that I don't ever want to see another human being treated the way the man in the video was being treated. Especially with the second video showing that - at most - he was passively resisting and refusing to follow orders (framed as "requests").

It's that, and it's the surprise of learning that even if I've successfully managed to get all the way onto the plane and into my seat, I can still be asked to get off, for any reason. I can randomly find my trip home delayed by a day, and the only compensation I might get are coupons I might very well never be able to use. If I want anything more by way of compensation, I'll have to fight for it. It really does give me pause. And it makes me feel like I'm not valued in any way as a customer of the airline.

By regulation, any involuntary bump requires a payout in some sort of cash equivalent, on top of having to transport the passenger to the destination on a later flight.
 
By regulation, any involuntary bump requires a payout in some sort of cash equivalent, on top of having to transport the passenger to the destination on a later flight.

Yes, but I'm reading that a lot of people didn't know that before this incident. So, they'd get bumped, sign a paper that said it was "voluntary", and end up with nothing but vouchers.

In fact, that's exactly what happened to my mother a few years back, and she never did get to use the vouchers (they were useless - too many restrictions). When she got bumped, it sure wasn't "voluntary", but they strongly implied that if she didn't sign, she wouldn't get anything at all. No one told her about her right to a cash equivalent!

I think regulations only get followed if the passenger knows their rights (limited as they may be).

One good thing that may come out of this, is that many more people will be demanding their cash equivalencies!
 
Now UAL is trying to buy off the witnesses. It just keeps getting worse. So, I guess being a passenger on that flight and merely witnessing it give you a case to sue. Why else would they want you signing something saying you wouldn't sue?

"A United (UAL) email provided to CNN by a passenger on the flight says customers are eligible for vouchers toward future flights if they "release" the airline from lawsuits."


http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/13/new...nger-vouchers0722PMVODtopLink&linkId=36494018
 
Absolutely no offense taken. I think what I disagree with the most is that United has been sentenced by the public without a fair trial and all the evidence taken into consideration. We don't do that with a criminal. Why do it to a corporation? It's only 4 days into it. Maybe I worked too many years in the Court system and DA's office. Who knows.

At this point in time. I feel the need to bow out of this conversation.

Why shouldn't the public get to decide how they feel about United? It is United's response as much as the incident itself which has the public so outraged. People have every right to decide if they want to support a company or not. This is where the whole thing about the difference being legally right and doing the right thing comes in. It doesn't take a trial and analysis of the rules and regulations for me (and clearly many others) to not agree with how United handled this. I can look at their response, disagree with it and decide that's a company I do not want to do business with. I don't need to scrutinize the fine print and read up on all the laws and regulations, find technicalities to make United in the right, or look into the victims past.
 
Why shouldn't the public get to decide how they feel about United? It is United's response as much as the incident itself which has the public so outraged. People have every right to decide if they want to support a company or not. This is where the whole thing about the difference being legally right and doing the right thing comes in. It doesn't take a trial and analysis of the rules and regulations for me (and clearly many others) to not agree with how United handled this. I can look at their response, disagree with it and decide that's a company I do not want to do business with. I don't need to scrutinize the fine print and read up on all the laws and regulations, find technicalities to make United in the right, or look into the victims past.

I agree. Unless they did that to this man because he was assaulting another passenger (and he wasn't ), there is nothing that will make me agree that this is okay to do to another human being.
 
Yes, but I'm reading that a lot of people didn't know that before this incident. So, they'd get bumped, sign a paper that said it was "voluntary", and end up with nothing but vouchers.

In fact, that's exactly what happened to my mother a few years back, and she never did get to use the vouchers (they were useless - too many restrictions). When she got bumped, it sure wasn't "voluntary", but they strongly implied that if she didn't sign, she wouldn't get anything at all. No one told her about her right to a cash equivalent!

I think regulations only get followed if the passenger knows their rights (limited as they may be).

One good thing that may come out of this, is that many more people will be demanding their cash equivalencies!

I'm sure that happens often. There's lot of people who are afraid of making waves, especially with anything to do with the airport. There's an intimidation factor that comes into play.
 
I'm sure that happens often. There's lot of people who are afraid of making waves, especially with anything to do with the airport. There's an intimidation factor that comes into play.

True, and no wonder. First you go through security with your hands up like you are a criminal, then if that doesn't satisfy them you get frisked thoroughly. Then, once on the plane you risk getting violently dragged off. i'm glad he didn't have children or grandchildren with him to see it.
 
This thread is jammed packed full of speculation, things like I "heard" but can't verify, arm chair lawyers, horrible thing said about the airline pilots wife that wrote the blog, misunderstanding and some silly scenarios to promote opinions. At this point, I think we all should will do the adult thing and base our opinions off fact and not what is written here.

Aw, but that policy would kill all of the train wreck threads on disboards. And I do love me some train wreckpopcorn:::happytv:

Seriously, though...the way I see it is that all of the "news" based threads or "bad park experience" threads or all of the "someone I know" threads are 99% speculation anyway. No way to know if the poster has her/his facts straight. No way to know if the media has THEIR facts straight. No way to know if there is stuff going on behind the scenes either- like the court case threads which I personally avoid because I find 'em to depressing. No way to know if people are just trolling...although we've got a lot of repeat offenders here.

If the mods ban all those, what do we have left? It's like you think this is a forum about planning trips to visit the Mouse. Oh wait....:lmao:
 
Also a significant concussion. I'm suprised about the broken nose. It didn't appear hurt in the footage but who knows what all they did to him.

Just occurred to me that we have only seen the 1st time he was removed where his head was bashed into the armrest in full view of other pssanera and filming cameras, after he reboarded, they said they removed everyone else then stretchered him off-who knows what that altercation looked like and what injuries he sustained without independent witnesees present
 
Just occurred to me that we have only seen the 1st time he was removed where his head was bashed into the armrest in full view of other pssanera and filming cameras, after he reboarded, they said they removed everyone else then stretchered him off-who knows what that altercation looked like and what injuries he sustained without independent witnesees present

We now know that he broke his nose, sustained a concussion and lost 2 teeth! That's pretty heavy handed.
 
We now know that he broke his nose, sustained a concussion and lost 2 teeth! That's pretty heavy handed.

From the video it looked like he was knocked out cold while he was dragged out limp. All of his injuries could have easily happened in the initial slam into the armrest.
 












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