Under-achievers....

[marcyinPA]

I've posted before about my DS15 who is a freshman in HS. He had a rough year. Between hormones, and the changes that go on between middle school and HS, he went from being a consistent A/B student to a "sometimes B, mostly C, sometimes F" student.

Our school district is on block scheduling, so this semester, he had Algebra, Biology and French as his three academic classes. He also had gym and band.

All semester long, I had to literally nag him to do well. I was on the "parent portal" (online grade system) constantly. I made him do his homework in the dining room. I was in contact with teachers. It was EXHAUSTING. He did great the third quarter, all A's and B's, and made honor roll. BUT, it was because of my DH and I riding his behind CONSTANTLY.

Finally, this fourth quarter, I thought, "there is no way that a 15 year old should need this kind of control from their parents". I remember reading a response to a post on here about giving up the control and the fighting, and just let the chips lay where they may fall. Natural consequences. So, I did not look on the parent portal all of fourth quarter.

He took his last final yesterday. All quarter long, I asked him how he was doing in his classes. His answer was always "Great!". Last night, I casually asked him if I was going to be in for a shock when report cards come in the mail. He flipped out. It finally came out that he failed algebra this quarter. He went from a B last quarter to an F. His grades for the semester are C, F, B, F. If he doesn't pass the final, he's screwed. Summer School probably.

I'm disappointed. But I think the worst thing right now is that I don't like him. I'm having a hard time looking at him and feeling proud. I'm feeling guilty for feeling this way. I love the kid, and he IS a good kid (no drugs, or trouble...and this I know for sure). His teachers love him despite his grades. His biology teacher told him that he's the kind of kid that makes teachers want to teach. How do I get through this summer and stop feeling what I feel about my son? I look at other kids, who work hard and WANT to work hard, and it just makes me so sad that my son is SO smart but refuses to use what he has.

Sigh....

 

[TaraPA]

Marcy - I could have written your exact post about my DS13. He used to be in enrichment classes, now has to stay for "remediation" 2-3 days a week just to re-take failed or missed assignments. The constant nagging has worn us all down. Every time he gets the grades up to where everyone is happy, he fails something miserably. Just last nght, while on the online grade system, I saw he didn't hand in a map project that was due on Tuesday. He says "he forgot." That could have bene an easy A and he FORGOT?!?!? I do check his assignment book (which like you, I feel that by 7th grade I shouldn't have to be doing this anymore), and there wasn't even anything written about the map project.

I know we live near each other - I think we need some mom ice cream or venting or something! Maybe if we put our heads together we can figure out how to get these boys to apply themselves & care about their grades! As of today he's not failing anything, I hate to say it but I almost wish he were - a good dose of summer school might make him see the light. Isn't that awful to wish upon your own child?? I just think he needs a different consequence then the ones we give him for bad grades & lack of effort (no TV, computer, cell, grounded from doing things with friends, etc.) Summer school might be the consequence he needs. Right now he has 3 C's and 2 B's...which is fine, but considering he was pulling A's in enrichment classes I KNOW he can do better. The teachers say the same thing - "has the ability, does not apply himself."

I want to pull my hair out!

 

[MineMail]

I can sympathize and empathize with you. I have a female version of your DS. She's still trying to buy a clue, but she hasn't dropped out/flunked out of college yet, so hang in there.

Her big thing is that, if she doesn't like the teacher, she won't do the work. It's pure procrastination and bias - the work she never did/turned in is what lowers her grade, time and again. (That, plus latenesses/absences.) She spent two or three of her high-school summers in summer school, which prevented us from going on vacation for those years. (Due to family circumstances, we couldn't ask someone else to stay with her and there was no way she was staying home alone.) She didn't care that everyone had to suffer for her screwup.

This has interfered with her getting jobs as well, which it should. Show up late for your shift more than once and you're on the chopping block. She needs to learn that lesson and get over her snotty "Everyone hates me." attitude. It'll happen soon, I hope.

After many years of counseling, I concluded that it's her psychotic way of being in power. She controls when and if she wants to go to class. She controls whether or not this assignment deserves her efforts. If she fails the class, that somehow reflects on the teacher, in her opinion. At one point, my DD thought her failure to thrive would get a long-standing and well-respected teacher fired, lol.

A wise person once said that parents learn with their oldest child and thrive with their younger kids. We resolved to let our younger kids just do it themselves and take it on the chin. Better for them to learn about failing in middle school than later on in life, right? There's no way in h-e-double hockey sticks we're going to play this game again. My middle one wants to go to an Ivy-League college; that won't happen if she doesn't learn to work hard in school.

I'll remark "Hey - the calendar says you have a report due tomorrow" if I truly see that note, but I won't nag them every day or force them to do it. It's their responsibility and if they fail, they fail.

I think the most important thing to realize is that it does not reflect on you. My DH and I are overachievers, well-organized and we pull out all the stops for everything we attempt. At one point, a close family member said "What happened to her? Did work ethic skip a generation?" That's when I realized that we've set the example, we've given her a great education, mental health care, and a good working environment. Her attitude is HER cross to bear, not ours.

Good luck - hope all works out sooner, rather than later.

 

[Christine]

This is my daughter (who is now almost 19 and just completed her first year of college). My younger child is not this way. Thank God because, if he was that way too, I'd be totally miserable with myself and convinced I had failed at being a parent.

My daughter was also an A/B student up through middle school. She had some struggles here and there, but overall good. High school was the beginning of a disaster. What I learned is that some kids need a thumb on them constantly. In trying to "let the chips fall where they may" I spent too much time "removing my thumb" with disastrous results. So much so she failed chemistry her Junior year (summer school) and did not get accepted to any in-state college she applied for. She appealed, through the help of an alumni of one school, and got her file looked at again (there was an ommision in the GPA calcuation) and was admitted into a school out of state. Oh, the promises of how well she would do. She didn't and I've made the decision to take her out. She will now attend community college and, at age 19, her mommy will probably put the thumb on her again until she decides what she wants to do with her life.

In hindsight, I wish I would have been on her more and I wish I had done/paid for her school to provide her with monitoring (they do that). A woman I work with has a son who is going to the high school that my DD attended. They have an academic support program ($$$$$$) and he has done super with it. I wish now that I had paid for that. But, in the end, it really does come down to your child and what drives/motivates him or her. It has to come from within, unless you are certain that there are no learning impediments.

I know EXACTLY how you are feeling now. My daughter hasn't given me a reason to be proud in a long time and I feel AWFUL about that. I do get little glimmers of something now and again. She has a great personality, everyone likes her, she works well with the public, and she tends to be a very good, reliable employee when she is at a job. So, there's that...

 

[MineMail]

It's really not a question of parenting or schooling in some cases. My oldest went to an excellent schools that provided learning support and study skills training, plus we put her in other programs as well. I don't think your paying for the assistance would have helped if it just wasn't in your daughter. That hand-holding would have artificially raised her grades because someone else was nagging her. As soon as the support ended, so would the good performance.

I think the most frustrating thing for me was to see other kids juggling school, activities, and even work with ease. I knew my daughter was capable of doing that, but she just wasn't willing to strive.

Promises are just wishes and as Mary Poppins says "like cookies - easily made, easily broken." Unless some specific plan of action is put into place, a child saying that s/he will "do better" won't make it happen.

 

[momof5boys]

As you can see in my siggy I have lots of boys to deal with. I am in the same boat with DSS 15, he failed Biology and is now trying to talk us out of summer school, saying he can double up on science next year. So what happens if he fails both sciences next year?! Guess he graduates a year later with his step brother! We have stopped fighting with him as well, I just ask everyday if he has homework(the answer is always no!) My DS15 gets his work done, he struggled through honors chemistry this year, but got extra help on his own when he needed it and did well. So no grey hairs from that one! My DS13 just had an IEP developed, he is smart and does well on standardized tests and tests in general, but doesn't do the classwork or homework. He suffers from anxiety and it greatly affects the way he functions in class. We has to do alot of last minute pushing to get him to pass without summer school, but the school came through! They worked great with him and it really helped that the person developing his IEP worked with him in homework club and could see how he functioned. Now going into high school we have alot of modifications for him(he needs to be allowed to move in class, stood for most of math class this year!, he will also be in regular classes but they will have 2 teachers per class so he always has a support person to go to for help without interupting the regular teacher!) I hope all of this will help make it easier for him to succeed! DSS19 graduated last night and he also had his ups and downs, we stopped pushing him his freshman year and he did ok, not to his ability I think but he passed with good grades! Good luck, I wish there was some magic powder we could sprinkle on them to make them realize that they need to function on their own, mommy and daddy aren't going to follow them to the workplace and make them work, but oh well....

 

[Liberty Belle]

I've posted before about my DS15 who is a freshman in HS. He had a rough year. Between hormones, and the changes that go on between middle school and HS, he went from being a consistent A/B student to a "sometimes B, mostly C, sometimes F" student.

Our school district is on block scheduling, so this semester, he had Algebra, Biology and French as his three academic classes. He also had gym and band.

All semester long, I had to literally nag him to do well. I was on the "parent portal" (online grade system) constantly. I made him do his homework in the dining room. I was in contact with teachers. It was EXHAUSTING. He did great the third quarter, all A's and B's, and made honor roll. BUT, it was because of my DH and I riding his behind CONSTANTLY.

Finally, this fourth quarter, I thought, "there is no way that a 15 year old should need this kind of control from their parents". I remember reading a response to a post on here about giving up the control and the fighting, and just let the chips lay where they may fall. Natural consequences. So, I did not look on the parent portal all of fourth quarter.

He took his last final yesterday. All quarter long, I asked him how he was doing in his classes. His answer was always "Great!". Last night, I casually asked him if I was going to be in for a shock when report cards come in the mail. He flipped out. It finally came out that he failed algebra this quarter. He went from a B last quarter to an F. His grades for the semester are C, F, B, F. If he doesn't pass the final, he's screwed. Summer School probably.

I'm disappointed. But I think the worst thing right now is that I don't like him. I'm having a hard time looking at him and feeling proud. I'm feeling guilty for feeling this way. I love the kid, and he IS a good kid (no drugs, or trouble...and this I know for sure). His teachers love him despite his grades. His biology teacher told him that he's the kind of kid that makes teachers want to teach. How do I get through this summer and stop feeling what I feel about my son? I look at other kids, who work hard and WANT to work hard, and it just makes me so sad that my son is SO smart but refuses to use what he has.

Sigh....

I have an underacheiver, as well. He's so smart, but just does not want to do his work. Now, he's learned tons of things on his own - he loves to learn.

But...you need to stop thinking about him that way. He sounds like a wonderful kid with one problem. Dislike the problem, not your son. He is still a child, struggling to grow. Think of him that way. He probably hates it just as much as you do, but doesn't really know how to make himself stop the behavior.

 

[Christine]

It's really not a question of parenting or schooling in some cases. My oldest went to an excellent schools that provided learning support and study skills training, plus we put her in other programs as well. I don't think your paying for the assistance would have helped if it just wasn't in your daughter. That hand-holding would have artificially raised her grades because someone else was nagging her. As soon as the support ended, so would the good performance.

This is definitely true; however, my hope was that once she actually succeeded a few times, she might try more the next time. My daughter is of average intelligence (not gifted, not below average). She has some problems with distraction and drifting off and, when we had her tested, she had some "processing" issues which rear their ugly traits in math and chemistry where there are formulas. If my daughter starts out in her courses strong, with good grades, it motivates her and she can do very well. If she falters, she immediately loses confidences, gets down on herself, gives up TOTALLY and blames everyone around her. She always has shown up for class and turned in her work. But the minute that she put forth effort yet failed, she gave up. This was why, in her particular case, I think the academic support may have been a benefit to her. I could be totally wrong, of course, and you always think that maybe the path you *didn't* take would have been the better one. I'll never know. What I do know is that she acts like she doesn't care when she fails but, man, when she does well, she's just beaming so I know it is important to her on some level.

 

[agnes!]

OP -

Sounds like your DS will be in Summer School this summer. I hope he knows that Summer School is usually even more concentrated than the regular school-year and that depending on your school-system if he misses more than two days of school?... He'll probably be withdrawn and will not be able to graduate with his present class.

agnes!

 

[bluesaturn]

My sister was like this at 15/16. Sophomore year was BAD. But my mom kept nagging her, checking the parent portal, constant communication with teachers, etc. At that point my sister wouldn't have cared if she failed the entire year. She had no ability to think ahead to the future. But my mom knew that failing would have become a major regret for my sister, so she kept pushing.

She did much better junior year, and very well senior year. Two things helped tremendously. She had to go to summer school (failed math), and she got a job. Her very entry level job was full of people who didn't further their education AND didn't have motivation, and she realized very quickly that she didn't want to have their lives in 5 or 10 years. It was a huge wake up call.

 

[MineMail]

I agree - working does put a better perspective on life and make teens think about where you want to be in five or ten years. Unfortunately, summer jobs for teens are few and far between these days. Hopefully, some thoughtful business people will start to think about hiring a teen or two so that they can gain the perspective that a job provides.

But the minute that she put forth effort yet failed, she gave up. This was why, in her particular case, I think the academic support may have been a benefit to her. I could be totally wrong, of course, and you always think that maybe the path you *didn't* take would have been the better one. I'll never know. What I do know is that she acts like she doesn't care when she fails but, man, when she does well, she's just beaming so I know it is important to her on some level.

Ask her if it would have made a difference. It might resolve your angst and lead to a valuable discussion. Do you know if your DD would have been accepted for the support program, just because you were willing to pay for it? We had a hard time just getting a behavioral assessment through the school. Without doing any formal evaluations, the counselor came to the same conclusion of "underachiever." We pushed and pushed, but the end assessment came back as "no support needed."

Either way, it is water under the bridge though, so don't keep beating yourself up over "coulda, woulda, shoulda." The paths she takes in the future are the only thing that matter now.

 

[marcyinPA]

It's really not a question of parenting or schooling in some cases. My oldest went to an excellent schools that provided learning support and study skills training, plus we put her in other programs as well. I don't think your paying for the assistance would have helped if it just wasn't in your daughter. That hand-holding would have artificially raised her grades because someone else was nagging her. As soon as the support ended, so would the good performance.

I think the most frustrating thing for me was to see other kids juggling school, activities, and even work with ease. I knew my daughter was capable of doing that, but she just wasn't willing to strive.

Promises are just wishes and as Mary Poppins says "like cookies - easily made, easily broken." Unless some specific plan of action is put into place, a child saying that s/he will "do better" won't make it happen.

This is what I feel about my DS.

I have to say, he did his homework most of the time. He'd lose it from home to school. He'd shove it in the backpack, to be lost forever. He has folders. He has binders. He never used his locker, so his entire life was in one backpack. He only had two or three classes at a time to keep organized in. He still couldn't make it work.

He also didn't study, or didn't study effectively. He never had to before. This year, he did, and he refused to believe it. You'd think after failing miserably a few times, he'd get with the program.

We tried positive reinforcement (money, etc.), negative (removing privileges), etc. Nothing worked, aside from me controlling all of the school work. I just don't feel like this is normal for high school!!!

He has never NOT wanted to go to school. He LOVES the social aspect of it, and was only absent once due to illness. He has friends, all of whom are in honors classes...I once thought that maybe this was the problem, as he is in regular academic classes. But I also thought that he'd work harder in order to test into honors to be with his friends. I was wrong on that one. He is very connected through our church, and is very active there. He's a bright kid and does good things, but school performance is his one area that he just can not pull together. I am really worried about his future.

 

[Magpie]

I WAS your son! My mother and my teachers were constantly pulling their hair out over me.

Please don't dislike your son, or be ashamed of him, over something as pointless as grades - he's still the same great kid he was before.

Honestly, I thought school was deadly boring. I just wasn't interested and didn't see the point. I also really enjoyed summer school - the compacted lessons and smaller classes really made things more fun. So there was really no reason for me to hand in any assignments.

I didn't apply myself until grade 11 when they dangled an interesting carrot in front of me. If I worked hard and earned enough credits on my own time, by correspondence and during the summer, I would be allowed to skip grade 12 and graduate a year early! Woo-hoo! Finally, the end was in sight! I threw myself into the project, and graduated with the highest grade point average in my class. No one could believe it. At graduation several different teachers came up to my mother and said, "We didn't think she was college material."

My point is, you and your son need to find a reason for high school. Check into the alternatives, like co-op placements and working for credit. Look into the possibilities of a technical high school, with hands on classes that might interest him more. Find out what he wants to do with his life, what kind of career goals he has, and help him to organize his classes so that he can get to where he wants to go. And if he fails to get there - no problem. He'll know it was his own choice, and he'll find something else to do.

There are SO many paths to getting an education these days, including options for older students, that I really don't see any point to getting stuck on just one model. He's not a failure if high school isn't his thing, and neither are you.

His ethics and morals and common sense and kind heart are FAR more important than his grades. I've said from the beginning that my children could work retail their whole life, just so long as they were happy and GOOD.

 

[ckay87]

I am another been-there-done-that and you had my sympathy up to the part where you stated you "don't like him." I'd watch that, it's not good. The last person who should be judging him so harshly is is mother. I'm sure many here will argue, but I firmly do not believe that the grades we receive in high school define who we are as people. They are very important, to be sure, but there is just more to life. Seriously, I hated school and was a lousy student (just getting by). I grew up to get a great job, great income, have a great family, contribute to my community, bla bla bla. And I think that's just because I was an ok person overall, if that makes any sense.

Ok, so what helped my son was the GOD-send that is vo-tech. He was lucky enough to find a field that interests him greatly (IT Networking) which will lead to many opportunities which include going to college. I think many people write off vo-tech as an option for their student, but it is astounding how much better a kid performs when every school day actually stimulates and interests him.

Someone made an interesting point to us one time. They said that the only time in your whole life that you'll be expected to excel at everything is during high school. How true is that? I just say this so that perhaps you won't view your son with such animosity just because of his grades.

 

[marcyinPA]

I just looked at our district website regarding summer school. It runs from June 21 to July 30, every day. It costs $200. I just showed my son the webpage. If he has to go, he'll be paying for the class with his own money. He is officially FLIPPING out. He just screamed "What have I done???"....

Wake up call maybe???

 

[zigzagzerr]

Looks like many of us are in the boat (frantically bailing the water out )

My DD14 is just finishing her first year of high school and it is been VERY rough. I'm still not convinced that she is "getting it" yet. I was a self starter in high school, so I don't understand the mindset of not doing your best, putting in the effort, and self correcting if something goes wrong.

So I guess I'm saying, OP, that I totally understand. It's very frustrating. Hang in there.

 

[MineMail]

I think vocational/technical schools are wonderful options. I have a nephew who has been forced into an elite college-bound high school. His mother does his homework for him so he doesn't flunk out and she's hell-bent on his going to college. She has an associate's and never went back for continuing education, so I don't get it.

I've seen this kid put together plumbing in a kitchen without a second thought. It just came to him as if it was part of his nature. (We were helping someone finish their kitchen.)

He would do so well as a plumber, but his mother won't let go of the college dream.

Other avenues, like distance learning or homeschooling, different schools or programs are all viable solutions. However, I will say that my oldest INSISTED that she wanted to go to the schools she chose. I think part of that was our helping her evaluate the options - she wanted the elite school and the tech program, but she didn't really want to do the work required. She wouldn't change her mind until we were asked to transfer her out because of her grades and attitude. Very embarrassing, but again, not our fault.

 

[lovesmurfs]

DS16 (sophomore) is your son a year later! My mantra all year has been, "Just pass." I'm not sure how he'll do, and it really concerns me how he'll handle work and life. He does extremely well in what HE likes (health occupations, auto shop) but English and algebra? Nope. He's repeating last year's Geometry next year, and he's really close to having to repeat algebra as well.

I totally understand your frustration when you know, if he applied himself, he would be a straight-A student. I've stopped nagging him about grades per se ("JUST PASS"), but told him that I'm weary and that at some point, it has to be important to HIM, not me.

Hang in there.

 

[punkin]

I think vocational/technical schools are wonderful options. I have a nephew who has been forced into an elite college-bound high school. His mother does his homework for him so he doesn't flunk out and she's hell-bent on his going to college. She has an associate's and never went back for continuing education, so I don't get it.

I've seen this kid put together plumbing in a kitchen without a second thought. It just came to him as if it was part of his nature. (We were helping someone finish their kitchen.)

He would do so well as a plumber, but his mother won't let go of the college dream.

Other avenues, like distance learning or homeschooling, different schools or programs are all viable solutions. However, I will say that my oldest INSISTED that she wanted to go to the schools she chose. I think part of that was our helping her evaluate the options - she wanted the elite school and the tech program, but she didn't really want to do the work required. She wouldn't change her mind until we were asked to transfer her out because of her grades and attitude. Very embarrassing, but again, not our fault.

That is so sad...a good, profitable, respectable profession being thrown out the window for no good reason.

 

[MineMail]

I understand what the OP is saying about not liking the DSS, but she really means his behavior. I'm sure she loves him just as much, but loving someone is different from liking how they act. (((OP)))


I'm not trying to start a fight here, but I'm really intrigued by the people who posted from the school-hater side of the fence. You've said that you found your niche and are doing well, but do you think you've become achievers? Do your families think that you've turned around? Or have you just kept your low standards and your families have accepted it because it's unchangeable?

I ask because I went to school with a cousin in just this situation, except that he transferred to my school after he failed several courses at an elite high school. He goofed off throughout high school, did some community college work and is a journeyman. He's happy, but he's never really ACHIEVED anything other than satisfying himself and getting by without really screwing up. Don't get me wrong: I love him, but I do feel that he's capable of much more. Whenever his name comes up, there's an air of regret, of lost opportunity, that surfaces. He's sort of "dismissed" with a "Hey, he's not on drugs, he's never been arrested, he works here and there, and he isn't hurting anyone."

I often think of a former coworker who had a law degree, a masters in business technology, and an insurance license. She worked in the IT department of a major insurance firm, handling the contract-development projects. That's a real niche, with achievement on top.