Un-Disney-like Behavior

[fey_spirit]

Funny the most selfish posts I see on Dis are from parents talking about how they need to force their kids to face their fears despite the screaming and wailing in line for 45 minutes, and it's for their kids own good and they always end up being glad they went. Yeah and to the adults that had to listen to it for 45 minutes and are now in desperate search of tylenol - too bad... it was what was best for their kids who cares about anyone else.

Cursing is a fully excpeted part of some sectors of society - and I'm sorry if you can't accept it, but you're little corner of society isn't the only one that matters.

Don't want your kids picking up on anything that adults do? Leave em at home. You're dang right I feel entitled - it's called the first amendment. Have a problem with it? Appeal the constitution. You're kids aren't my responsability - if I wanted kids I would have had them... I don't. I am a huge proponent that even when I don't like what people have to say - they have the right to say it... should I honor myself any less?

That said perhaps I should be very, very clear.
I don't curse like a sailor - never have, never will. But once in a while (a stroller runs over your foot, you see a father slap a kid across the face with a camera etc) I'm gonna curse... it's just the only word strong enough.
I don't curse like a sailor because if you curse like a salior those words lose their impact.

This is perhaps one of the most selfish posts I've ever read on DIS. Cursing is NOT an fully accepted part of this society.

Kids are kids and they will have melt downs and tantrums and it's up to the adults to deal with it appropriatly. YOU are an adult and can control your impluses INCLUDING swearing in front of my kids in a place for FAMILIES.

Just another example of someone with an entitlement issue. Can't control a foul mouth in front of kids because gosh darn it, I'm entitled to use words not appropriate for children. And isn't it JUST adorable to hear a three year old repeat the "f bomb" he hears from someone just like you to the next person he/she sees. Get real. Kids are still maturing and will understandably have melt downs. You are "suppose" to be mature enough to curb your foul mouth for a few hours.

I'll tell you what...I'll respect you and take my kids out of the park if they are having issues and you save your dirty mouth for the bar.

 

[fey_spirit]

First I'm not a gentleman, I'm a woman but I'll grant you I'm no lady - thank god. You know what it's not my responsability - your children are not my responsability. I realize they're part of my nation and my country - duh. However you're part of my nation and country too, that doesn't make me responsable for you. I do think it's a sad statement of our times when you realize that grown adults decide to have kids then expect everyone else to help take care of them. If you can't rear your own kids without needing complete strangers to help support you in the process, maybe you weren't ready.

BTW why does everyone think they're family is the only real type of family? Why does everyone think that their family values should be everybody's family values? My family happens to value free speech...

As to the gentleman who thinks swearing is ok. Its a definite statement of the quality of our society. Stating: I'm an adult, and in this society...its not my responsibility to provide an example to children about how to behave. I dont care about those children ....they are not a part of my country nation ....are not a part of my culture.....lets just promote the complete disintegration of family values....Your very fortunate to have not grown up in such a society....I shudder when I think the world my children will grow up in.....How very very sad.

 

[pampam]

You know every time I've heard someone complain about screaming, wailing, crying kids I hear the parents come back with "Well it's Disney - you have to expect the kids and just deal with it."

You know what? They have a point.

Guess what? Disney isn't just for kids, and the adults are just as welcome. Guess whta else? Cursing is a part of our society - like it or not. Don't like for your kids to hear this kind of thing? Keep them at home.

Why should I have to put up with someone's wailing screaming kid peircing my eardrums but then be expected to curb my language? I don't have a problem with my language (in fact I think that cursing is a perfectly natural expression - and to paraphrase the great Mark Twain often offers a release and satisfaction that at times even prayer can not provide.) the people I travel with don't have a problem with my language... so I'll tell you what, I'll deal with the fact that I'm in public with screaming, whineing kids, and keep my thoughts to myself if you'll accept that fact that you have your kids in public and sometimes they're gonna hear things you don't want them to and keep your thoughts to yourself. Then we'll all have peace in the Kingdom.

I hope this doesn't turn into a swearing debate. However, I feel I must add my 2 cents worth. Is swearing allowed in school? How about church? Perhapes it is allowed in court? I don't think so. Yes, people swear. Sometimes it's young ones trying to look older, or draw attention to themselves. Sometimes it's used by someone who lacks certain language skills, and sometimes it's used because it seems that word is the only one that fits. But there are times when swearing is completely socially unacceptable. We try not to swear in front of people we respect. When children are around, I feel it is unacceptable. However, if a stroller hurts someone, or you are in sudden pain, or something else causes you to swear suddenly, and impulsively, appologies help to soften the words. You cannot take back words once they are out of your mouth, but you don't have entitlement to use these words whenever you feel like. Self control is a learned behaviour.

 

[nurseypoo5]

Well said to those who are trying so eloquently to state the obvious. Swearing around children is poor behavior. If you werent brought up to behave with socially acceptable behavior than, there isnt much any of us could do about it, not that we try.

To curse infront of a child haphazzardly is just rude and crude. Why would any normal person think that lighting up a ciggerette (and i smoke), curse around (and i too curse), or engage in public lewdness (including butt grabbing etc) around a child is "ok" and there right? Its also that childs right to NOT hear, see or smell those things. Just because you breath the same air as them doesnt mean that you shouldn't RESPECT them.

Its my right to pick my nose and eat what i find during dinner at le cellier, but that little voice from inside myself reminds me that it might be socially UNACCEPTABLE.

Take a hint. So what if you curse, who cares. What people expect is that you try TRY to refrain in public around children. if you arent able to do this then there is something wrong with your impulse control.

You state that your friends do not have aproblem with your mouth. But have you asked those "strangers" around you if it bothers them? Please don't be one of those visitors to the world that thinks the Magic Kingdom belongs only to them and that they are the most important visitors that day.

On a side note. While eating one day my foot caught on the strap of my 1,500.00 camera and sent it SCREAMING to the concrete below us. I let out a very naughty expletive and was MORTIFIED at myself when I looked up and saw a little boy clasp his hands over his ears and look at me like i was the she devil from hell.

I profusely apologized. Mom stated it was ok and she probably would have done it also. Made me feel less white trash to apologize for my socially unacceptable behavior at that time.

My 2 cents. Yes its a right that you have free speech, doesnt mean its socially acceptable to utilize that right at all times.

 

[DebbieinWA]

Okay - I didn't read all the posts, but I have to comment about cursing in public. I am an adult, and quite frankly, I don't think there's ever an appropriate time to use a four-letter word that basically means the physical act required to create children. Do people even think about the meaning of words anymore? The only four-letter word I can think of that should be used with extreme frequency is love -- as in "I love you" to family, kids, friends, etc. WDW is supposed to be a place filled with magic, awe and wonder -- somehow cursing/vulgar language just doesn't fit in at the happiest place on earth. Maybe I'm just naive.......but I hope I stay that way...
"Pollyanna" signing off now

 

[NC State]

Okay - I didn't read all the posts, but I have to comment about cursing in public. I am an adult, and quite frankly, I don't think there's ever an appropriate time to use a four-letter word that basically means the physical act required to create children. Do people even think about the meaning of words anymore? The only four-letter word I can think of that should be used with extreme frequency is love -- as in "I love you" to family, kids, friends, etc. WDW is supposed to be a place filled with magic, awe and wonder -- somehow cursing/vulgar language just doesn't fit in at the happiest place on earth. Maybe I'm just naive.......but I hope I stay that way...
"Pollyanna" signing off now

I "love" the way you think!

 

[flortlebap]

People, have you not noticed a common reoccuring theme in fey_spirit's posts on this site? They're nearly all argumentative, trolling posts, even from her first one. Don't feed the troll.

 

[Fitswimmer]

If you run over my foot with your double wide stroller, you will probably hear some inappropriate language. Unless I'm convinced you did it on purpose, I'll apologize for it, but it's going to happen.

Having children at WDW does not entitle you to any treatment above and beyond what any other guest receives. If you demand seats on a bus or the front spot at the parades because "we have children!" don't be surprised when you're met with a less than Disney response. Many people come to WDW without kids, for a variety of reasons. They are just as entitled to have a magical experience as you and your children are.

 

[fey_spirit]

And you know that's very sweet... (No, I'm not being sarcastic)
But I'm not you - I can't be you, anymore then you can be me. I will never belive that any person in this country should have to conform to following the values and beleifs of another person, so long as they are not breaking the law or harming anyone.

People have the right not to want to hear it, I have the right not to want to hear a host of screaming kids. But the fact of the matter is that both sides are going to have to accept that whether we want to hear it or not - it happens, and the only way either side can completely cut it out is to stay out of the public scene. Because from time to time in a public scenerio, you're going to hear someone curse - and I'm going to hear kids breaking my eardrums. (litterly, I don't harp on it because it's annoying, I harp on it because 90% of them manage to hit just the right deciblie to cause me phyisical pain... litteral physical pain. Like a needle through my eardrums.)

Okay - I didn't read all the posts, but I have to comment about cursing in public. I am an adult, and quite frankly, I don't think there's ever an appropriate time to use a four-letter word that basically means the physical act required to create children. Do people even think about the meaning of words anymore? The only four-letter word I can think of that should be used with extreme frequency is love -- as in "I love you" to family, kids, friends, etc. WDW is supposed to be a place filled with magic, awe and wonder -- somehow cursing/vulgar language just doesn't fit in at the happiest place on earth. Maybe I'm just naive.......but I hope I stay that way...
"Pollyanna" signing off now

 

[fey_spirit]

You know a few points.

1.) I was actually afraid I might come off that way, mostly because most of my posts came about in one thread where I didn't agree with the large Christan following here. And because I tend to speak when I see something that I belive needs to be said, but nobody else has said. I don't feel the need to jump up and down and join the "me too masses". If I agree - I don't post unless I have something diffrent to add. I don't post unless I have something to say that hasn't been said. Which means that often when I post I end up playing devil's advocate.

2.) If you bothered to read "every one" of my posts you would realize that most of them were asking for help for my first trip. Heck I even posted one heads up from an ALL Ears newsletter in hopes of spareing folks any trouble with shipping fees. I don't feel like I can contribute; thoughts, facts, or opinions on anything specifically Disney just yet seeing as how I have no first hand knowlodge. That will change when I return from my first trip.

3.) Why is it that if someone doesn't agree with you, if someone has a firm beleif and opinion they must be a troll? Can't I have a passionate opinion that goes against the mainstream without my sole purpose being to cause trouble? Or does everyone have to conform to Big Brother to be valid?

4.) My first post, was in defense of my right to even exist as a homosexual... oooooh big troll. My first post was a direct quote from the finest fictional president I have ever had the pleasure of watching - Jed Bartlet from West Wing. About how snooty Christans pick and choose the parts of the Bible they will and wont follow so that they can use it as a weapon and force of hate while still not inconveincing themselves. How they seem to have gotten past a whole lot in the book because "these are modern times", but still choose to use it to hold onto prejudice and hate. God I'm evil for defending my right to exist with an such an intelligent quoted speech. Somebody, shoot me dead.

People, have you not noticed a common reoccuring theme in fey_spirit's posts on this site? They're nearly all argumentative, trolling posts, even from her first one. Don't feed the troll.

 

[fey_spirit]

I'm sorry if you don't like my behavior, I don't much like the behavior of a lot of folks I see around me... but so long as they aren't breaking any laws or doing anyone physical harm I'll fight to the death for their right to do it. I don't follow social morays - why should I? Even when I tried society rejected me, I tried so hard to be someone else and they rejected me as the phony I was. Now? I recognize that I don't fit in. I recognize that I don't belong and I don't regret it anymore. And I wont try to be somebody else anymore.

I would rather be someone who occasionally lets loose with an appropriatly placed curse, then someone who watches a child being abused and walks away saying I can't do anything about it as so many people here have posted about. I would rather let loose with the occasional curse, then be the kind of person who belives that I have the right to tell others what words should come out of their mouths or how to live their lives.

I was taught socially acceptable behavior, heck my parents were a lot stricter then 90% of this board. But thank you for making assumptions about me without any facts except your preconcived assumptions about what someone who isn't ashamed of the full use of the English language should be like.

Again? Why is it acceptable for a child to annoy me or causee me physical pain with their screams (yeah I know it's a kid - but it's still socially acceptable for the parent to let it continue, and the rest of us are just supposed to understand.) But the occasional curse word makes me the boogy man?

Yep, it's you're right to pick your nose... and eat it if ya want.
It's my right to be offended (but I wouldn't be... hey it's your mouth - your right... not sure why you'd want to do it, but more power to you!.)
It's my right to curse - and you're right to be offended.

There is nothing wron with my impulse control, and I do try to curtail my language when around the public in general. I don't see kids as special little people deserving of special little privlages. However this all started when I adressed a woman who said that if she heard someone "slip" she would get in their face. I am not advocating a wholesale explosian of explatives, what I am saying is that dude I'm an adult and if I slip I don't expect another adult to get in my face about it.

I don't care what strangers around me have a problem with - why should I? They never gave a hang about what bothered me. You really want to know who taught me inappropriate social behavior? Society taught me. It taught me that because I was diffrent they didn't care about what offended me at all, so long as they didn't offend the moral majority. They don't care about offending me, I don't care about offending them - and we all just find a way to co-exist or we don't.

Well said to those who are trying so eloquently to state the obvious. Swearing around children is poor behavior. If you werent brought up to behave with socially acceptable behavior than, there isnt much any of us could do about it, not that we try.

Its my right to pick my nose and eat what i find during dinner at le cellier, but that little voice from inside myself reminds me that it might be socially UNACCEPTABLE.

Take a hint. So what if you curse, who cares. What people expect is that you try TRY to refrain in public around children. if you arent able to do this then there is something wrong with your impulse control.

You state that your friends do not have aproblem with your mouth. But have you asked those "strangers" around you if it bothers them? Please don't be one of those visitors to the world that thinks the Magic Kingdom belongs only to them and that they are the most important visitors that day.

On a side note. While eating one day my foot caught on the strap of my 1,500.00 camera and sent it SCREAMING to the concrete below us. I let out a very naughty expletive and was MORTIFIED at myself when I looked up and saw a little boy clasp his hands over his ears and look at me like i was the she devil from hell.

I profusely apologized. Mom stated it was ok and she probably would have done it also. Made me feel less white trash to apologize for my socially unacceptable behavior at that time.

My 2 cents. Yes its a right that you have free speech, doesnt mean its socially acceptable to utilize that right at all times.

 

[fey_spirit]

Swearing is not allowed in any of those places. On the other hand those places are places where our rights as citizens of America are extemly limited anyway. I also can't chew gum in school, walk around as I see fit, talk about anything other then what the teacher tells me I can talk about. I wouldn't know about church - don't go, never will... on the other hand if I try to carry myself like I'm in chruch I would be confining myself to the moral beleifs of others and that I wont do for anyone. And as for court? Well - see where I talked about school? Disney World is private property, if my cursing is extreme enough that a CM asks me to stop - then I will. But it's not anyone else's place to tell me how I may and may not speak or behave. But Disney World is not a place where my rights are as heavily curtailed as the places you listed above.

YES I do have the entitlement to use those words whenver I please at Disney World - so long as no CM stops me. It's in the constitution. Do they have a posted rule that says "no cursing" if so - I wont (because despite what people here choose to belive, if I choose not to - I don't have to.) and I will respect the rules of the people who own the house.

Heck I wont even do that much cursing anyway, heck I probably wont curse at all. Everyone seems to belive that because I defend the constitutional right to use those words, I must use them every other sentence. I don't - I go whole weeks without cursing. I'm just trying to say that I don't really care much what society thinks about me - and I will defend my right to express myself as I see fit within legal parameters.

The whole thing didn't start as a "I'll curse where I want, when I want" debate. It started out as my saying that I thought it was a little rude to get into the face of a grown person who chose to use one swear word.

No you try not to curse around people you respect, I respect people that don't freak out when they hear a well placed explative. I respect people who value freedom of expression.

I hope this doesn't turn into a swearing debate. However, I feel I must add my 2 cents worth. Is swearing allowed in school? How about church? Perhapes it is allowed in court? I don't think so. Yes, people swear. Sometimes it's young ones trying to look older, or draw attention to themselves. Sometimes it's used by someone who lacks certain language skills, and sometimes it's used because it seems that word is the only one that fits. But there are times when swearing is completely socially unacceptable. We try not to swear in front of people we respect. When children are around, I feel it is unacceptable. However, if a stroller hurts someone, or you are in sudden pain, or something else causes you to swear suddenly, and impulsively, appologies help to soften the words. You cannot take back words once they are out of your mouth, but you don't have entitlement to use these words whenever you feel like. Self control is a learned behaviour.

 

[mikkiwikki]

First I'm not a gentleman, I'm a woman but I'll grant you I'm no lady - thank god. You know what it's not my responsability - your children are not my responsability. I realize they're part of my nation and my country - duh. However you're part of my nation and country too, that doesn't make me responsable for you. I do think it's a sad statement of our times when you realize that grown adults decide to have kids then expect everyone else to help take care of them. If you can't rear your own kids without needing complete strangers to help support you in the process, maybe you weren't ready.

BTW why does everyone think they're family is the only real type of family? Why does everyone think that their family values should be everybody's family values? My family happens to value free speech...

As an adult in this society there comes with that role certain responsibilities, whether you like it or not. Crude and lascivious conduct should not be tolerated. Further, I certainly would never entrust my children in your care. If you take issue with the fact that acting like an imbecile should be accepted........I can only conclude there is no arguing with the lack of intellect here. Might I suggest you pick up a dictionary...Me thinks this 'female' - who "aint no lady" needs a bit of education...or maybe fey would spell this as "educashun"...

 

[Kellyscrapbooks]

In response to "who breeds these things"

Wolves.

What a mean thing to say about wolves!

 

[BamaTigger]

If you run over my foot with your double wide stroller, you will probably hear some inappropriate language. Unless I'm convinced you did it on purpose, I'll apologize for it, but it's going to happen.

Having children at WDW does not entitle you to any treatment above and beyond what any other guest receives. If you demand seats on a bus or the front spot at the parades because "we have children!" don't be surprised when you're met with a less than Disney response. Many people come to WDW without kids, for a variety of reasons. They are just as entitled to have a magical experience as you and your children are.

ITA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jeast]

Where is the argument here? Fey, you have the right to cuss up a storm, if you want (which, I understand, is not your intent).

Here is my point. I completely support the right of people to burn the flag (using another controversial social phenomenon). I COMPLETELY support their right to do so.

However, I certainly make judgements about their decisions to do so. It takes any validity out of their complaint to me and makes me decide to tune out their message. To me, their decision shows a complete lack of respect and judgement, so it actually LESSENS their message.

I still support their right to do it, the dumb---es.

Same thing here. Use your right to cuss. It is your right, but that type of behavior certainly brings about judgement from those around you. Tough.

By the way, Fey. You sound pretty angry about your situation and the way society treated you regarding your homosexuality. I would like to say two things, since you brought it up.

First, most of us don't give a hoot if you're gay or not. There's an outspoken group out there that give homosexuals a hard time. Therefore let me stand for the rest of us in supporting your right to be who you are.

Second, it wasn't that long ago that a HUGE majority of Americans were against interracial marriage, as well. Don't worry. As tolerance and understanding spread, the old guard gets louder for a while. Nowadays there are many interracial couples sitting in the pews of those same churches that didn't like it 50 yrs ago.

Back to topic, I think we all agree we have the right to speak as we choose, wherevere we are. I think most of us feel it's inappropriate to cuss in front of children. No win discussion. Can we move on?

 

[fey_spirit]

Ah my grammer and spelling need work - darn it.
Never mind that I was smart enough to get into Phi Theta Kappa, nor that I maintain a 4.0 GPA... a slight learning disability in one area makes me a moron.

I have certain social responsablities to society, if I choose to accept myself as a member of society... I don't. It's tolerable for a person to watch a child being bashed in the face with a camera and walk away because you don't interfere with other people's kids, and you don't get involved. However, one swear word not even directed at a child in Disney is grounds for "crude and lascivious" behavior. See? This is why I don't accept myself as part of society... I think society's standards, expctations, and priorites are just a little, ok a lot, messed up.

But then again maybe I'm just a moron because I don't agree with you and the narrow minded people just like you. And because you can turn the tricks society expects of you, and have trained your mind not to be able to think outside the box or see any point of view not your own... you must be a rocket sceintist.

As an adult in this society there comes with that role certain responsibilities, whether you like it or not. Crude and lascivious conduct should not be tolerated. Further, I certainly would never entrust my children in your care. If you take issue with the fact that acting like an imbecile should be accepted........I can only conclude there is no arguing with the lack of intellect here. Might I suggest you pick up a dictionary...Me thinks this 'female' - who "aint no lady" needs a bit of education...or maybe fey would spell this as "educashun"...

 

[BamaTigger]

Ever heard the American Indian saying -
"Before I judge a man, let me first walk a mile in his moccasins."

Bama - if you dont have kids - you dont know - so pretending to know is insulting to others. One can only hope after you have a two kids, you will be enlightened.

Well, thanks for the input mikki--but as for someone who CANT HAVE KIDS, I will never be enlightened, now will I?

 

[fey_spirit]

The argument is I got flat out personally attacked for advocating my right to express myself as I see fit, and have been defending myself since.
Ok, and I can respect your reaction to my choice of words... just like I will defend my right to use the, I will defend your right to ignore the person using them, and I will respect your opinion that it lessens my message. So far, so good.

Actually my anger with society started long before I knew I was gay. It started in Jr High when I had to walk through a gym every morning while the socially acceptable people threw books, and rocks, and pencils and everything else they could find at me. And while the teachers turned a blind eye. It happened when they mocked me, threw gum in my hair, tried to force me at knife point to crawl into a class room, and the only thing the teacher would do (because she was scared of them too), was not count me as tardy if I stood my ground and didn't get to come into the room until after the bell forced the kids to take their seats. Why? Becausee I was fat and ugly and didn't fit in.

My anger continued when the most socially acceptable person in my building decided to use my head like a basketball against the concrete parking lot because she found out I was a witch. Then continued when a couple of socially acceptable Christans tried to stone me because I was holding hands outside the church when they came out with a young woman who wasn't even my lover... just a freind going through a hard time.

My anger grew further when I realized that half of this country thinks it's perfectly acceptable to write discrimination against me into the constitution. When I realized that if I went against even the most petty rules or morals of the church - but that the church encouraged folks to use the Bible to support hatered of me, and people who were diffrent then them.

I gave up - I can't be like them...
I don't want to be like them...
I think that the things that they turn a blind eye to, the things that they activly support make them far worse then a handful of explitives could ever make me.

Where is the argument here? Fey, you have the right to cuss up a storm, if you want (which, I understand, is not your intent).

Here is my point. I completely support the right of people to burn the flag (using another controversial social phenomenon). I COMPLETELY support their right to do so.

However, I certainly make judgements about their decisions to do so. It takes any validity out of their complaint to me and makes me decide to tune out their message. To me, their decision shows a complete lack of respect and judgement, so it actually LESSENS their message.

I still support their right to do it, the dumb---es.

Same thing here. Use your right to cuss. It is your right, but that type of behavior certainly brings about judgement from those around you. Tough.

By the way, Fey. You sound pretty angry about your situation and the way society treated you regarding your homosexuality. I would like to say two things, since you brought it up.

First, most of us don't give a hoot if you're gay or not. There's an outspoken group out there that give homosexuals a hard time. Therefore let me stand for the rest of us in supporting your right to be who you are.

Second, it wasn't that long ago that a HUGE majority of Americans were against interracial marriage, as well. Don't worry. As tolerance and understanding spread, the old guard gets louder for a while. Nowadays there are many interracial couples sitting in the pews of those same churches that didn't like it 50 yrs ago.

Back to topic, I think we all agree we have the right to speak as we choose, wherevere we are. I think most of us feel it's inappropriate to cuss in front of children. No win discussion. Can we move on?

 

[Boncho]

It's supposed to be Un-Disney-like behavior, not a persons rights and freedoms isn't it?