Ultra Advice

[Baloo in MI]

I started in a zero-drop Altra, but my feet just never adjusted well. The Speedgoat II’s were a recommendation and I have stuck with them. I really like the cushioning, especially when getting out into the 6+ hour efforts. I have also felt like they still allow for good feel of the trail given the cushioning. I agree that trail running is very demanding, but I have really enjoyed the solitude, nature setting and challenge it has provided. That is if I can ever get this stupid boot off! Excited to hear how your process and the race ultimately goes.

 

[baxter24]

@dragitoff - Just go at back from visiting the inlaws in Dothan and was wondering if you run on the Forever Wild trails? We took the kids on a walk on one of the connector paths and it was really nice. I wish I had known about them before so I could have done my runs there instead of their neighborhood.

 

[dragitoff]

@dragitoff - Just go at back from visiting the inlaws in Dothan and was wondering if you run on the Forever Wild trails? We took the kids on a walk on one of the connector paths and it was really nice. I wish I had known about them before so I could have done my runs there instead of their neighborhood.

Yes! I run those trails all the time. They're really nice because it's over 10 miles of trails and it's almost all covered by forest canopy so it's slightly cooler. Some of the trails are quite technical and have some steep and challenging hills, but it's fun. Did a 12 miler there a few weeks ago and I felt like I'd run a hard marathon afterwards.

My go-to trails is the Westgate Trail. It's a 3.3 mile loop of hard pack (mostly) trails with a very small amount of asphalt. They're only 1.5 miles from my house so I can run to them and do a few laps on the trails before heading back. They're much wider than the Forever Wild Trails too.

Both are great trails. The Troy trails are not nearly as good. It's advertised as a 2.5 mile loop, but it's only 1.5 miles and it's not very good trails either. I didn't enjoy my 1 time running it.

 

[Baloo in MI]

Sorry to whine, but this seems a good thread to vent this. Today would have been my first 100. Due to a very stubborn injury (and a stubborn runner who waited way too long to go to the doctor) I am still healing and in no way ready. In fact I am going to ask to get my registration for Woodstock 100 (in September) deferred to 2019 because I will not be ready for that either. If all goes well I will be ready for the Don’t Croak 50K in December and then Dopey in January... Morale of this story, don’t try to run through an injury. If it feels wrong, it is, and have a specialist look at it. That was my second mistake.

The Forever Wild Trail sounds nice, my favorite in my area is the Potawatomi Trail which is about an 18 mile loop that similarly runs through lots of forested areas. It is beautiful and kicks my but at the same time!

 

[dragitoff]

Sorry to whine, but this seems a good thread to vent this. Today would have been my first 100. Due to a very stubborn injury (and a stubborn runner who waited way too long to go to the doctor) I am still healing and in no way ready. In fact I am going to ask to get my registration for Woodstock 100 (in September) deferred to 2019 because I will not be ready for that either. If all goes well I will be ready for the Don’t Croak 50K in December and then Dopey in January... Morale of this story, don’t try to run through an injury. If it feels wrong, it is, and have a specialist look at it. That was my second mistake.

The Forever Wild Trail sounds nice, my favorite in my area is the Potawatomi Trail which is about an 18 mile loop that similarly runs through lots of forested areas. It is beautiful and kicks my but at the same time!

Sorry to hear about that. My wife is currently battling a nagging injury on her foot. She only runs 3-4 miles per day at the most so she's not logging extremely long miles, but it's still frustrating for her nonetheless. We just moved so we don't have a good stable of doctors here that we know so she's not seen a specialist. She did at least go to a general practitioner who gave her some meds and therapy to help.

As for the trails, it's weird. I'd run exactly 1 trail race before we moved to Dothan, AL earlier this year. Since there are so many great trails within 3 miles of my house, I've really fallen in love with it. It's helped during those brutal southern summers too as the trails provide coverage against the summer sun. My ginger skin and lungs have appreciated it. The Forever Wild trails are absolutely gorgeous, but definitely challenging. I'm still familiarizing myself with them since some are so challenging you cannot run a normal stride up or down them due to the steep nature. I find the roller coaster hills to be my least favorite parts of the more technical trails though. That up and down motion is killer to your quads. Other than the canopy, the thing I love most about them is they're clearly marked with grades for how tough they are so you could realistically do loops on some of the easier trails and only venture into the tougher ones as desired. This makes it great for longer runs so you're not just killing yourself on ridiculous hills and unable to complete the mileage.

One thing to keep in mind should you ever try them is similar to most heavily wooded trails, GPS watches are not very accurate on them and Apple Watches are not either since your arm swinging may be impeded when compared to normal running motions due to climbing or descending hills or occasionally grabbing a tree branch as I had to do a few runs ago when I tripped going down a steep hill with a creek at the bottom. Each trail is marked with the distance so it's a good idea to gauge how far off your watch is. When I do longer runs, I find my watch gets significantly off since I'm fiddling more with water bottles, sweat rags, and/or looking at my watch.

 

[lilmc]

I’ve only run one 50k trail run (Dirty 30 in Golden, CO - great race btw!), so I’m definitely a novice, but I love, love real food on my runs (because eating is why I run). Check out Feed Zone Portables for recipes of super yummy food that easily packs into your run vest (huge fan of the Solomon vests, pricey, but worth it).

 

[dragitoff]

I just started training for my ultra this week so my mileage is still fairly low on the long runs. I maintain long runs of 10-13 miles year round even when I'm not training so I haven't exceeded that distance yet. Since I live in the south, the heat and humidity are rough and I've had major cramping issues in the past. I've been fueling with Tailwind exclusively up to this point, but I will be trying some solid foods in the near future to figure out what works best for me.

On a positive note, early in this thread there was discussion about Tailwind and I'd never used it. I ordered a few flavors and have been using it all summer. I haven't had ANY issues with cramping so it's helped me stay properly hydrated. I'm using it basically the same way I used my half-half water/powerade mixes in the past. Even if I have to rely more on other fueling methods, I've been thrilled to avoid the cramping I've experienced in the past.

 

[Baloo in MI]

Yeah Tailwind was a game changer for me when I started running longer distances. I am a big fan of Citrus and Lemon, not too sweet and very satisfying.

 

[dragitoff]

Yeah Tailwind was a game changer for me when I started running longer distances. I am a big fan of Citrus and Lemon, not too sweet and very satisfying.

That's both flavors I have

 

[garneska]

Wanted to resurrect this thread. @dragitoff i signed up for my first 50k trail race. It is at Cloudland Canyon State Park in feb. One month after Disney. I am actually pretty excited about it and yet at the same time terrified.

 

[BikeFan]

Wanted to resurrect this thread. @dragitoff i signed up for my first 50k trail race. It is at Cloudland Canyon State Park in feb. One month after Disney. I am actually pretty excited about it and yet at the same time terrified.

No need to be worried. From your signature, it looks like you've finished multiple marathons, so you should be fine. Are you doing the full at Disney? If so, you'll already have solid fitness heading into your 50K. If you haven't run on trails before, I'd try to do some training on those to get used to that. Otherwise, just start out slow and steady, and you should do great. Best of luck to you!

 

[garneska]

No need to be worried. From your signature, it looks like you've finished multiple marathons, so you should be fine. Are you doing the full at Disney? If so, you'll already have solid fitness heading into your 50K. If you haven't run on trails before, I'd try to do some training on those to get used to that. Otherwise, just start out slow and steady, and you should do great. Best of luck to you!

Yes am doing Chicago in Oct and then Disney 10k and Full. Yeah i am thinking the most important thing is to try and get on the trails. I am hiking a lot so i am used to trails but not trails and running. though i did a trail race last month (my first one ever). I am only planning one more hike, this Saturday and then will hold off a bit on the trails till after Chicago. My hope is Disney to be a fun race so after Chicago can train on trails and road. Hard to do trails during the week but will get on them for the weekends.

FYIl. i chatted with you before the 10K at Disney in 2018.

 

[Baloo in MI]

Wanted to resurrect this thread. @dragitoff i signed up for my first 50k trail race. It is at Cloudland Canyon State Park in feb. One month after Disney. I am actually pretty excited about it and yet at the same time terrified.

I agree with @BikeFan you have a very strong base with multiple marathons. The distance jump from marathon to 50k will be minimal. I think the real challenge in trail ultra’s is the terrain. Weekend runs on trails would be a great way to build trail running time. But I would encourage you to find trails that mimmic the terrain of your race. I would also advise thinking about shoes. My first 50k was on a hilly course and it rained for two days before and through the majority of the race (I was so slow that the weather had time to change before I finished) and I was in my Brooks Ghosts. I slid all over the place! It really impacted my pace and confidence. I loved the run, getting muddy, running in the woods, getting soaked and being challenged but it really slowed me down and scared me at a few points. This was pretty shocking to me because I had already run a few shorter trail races and the terrain had never been a problem. But that first 50k in the rain was a huge wake up for me. After that I started experimenting with different trail running shoes and eventually ended up with the Hoka Speedgoat 2’s. Honestly when you are flying down a steep trail and you can feel the grip of the shoe it is really reassuring and satisifying. Ay my local running shoe store they let me try out a number of shoes and return them until I landed with the Speedgoats.

Good luck with your first 50k I am sure you will tear it up!

 

[garneska]

Thanks @Baloo in MI I am heading to REI today to check on shoes and I have a local running store I will check with. Honestly that is. My biggest concern getting a pair of shoes I like for the trail. While I did that trail race in my road running shoes, I knew I was not dealing with sloppy conditions. This race is February so could be a lot worse. I really want to try the Salomon odyssey, based on what I read about it, but it’s all in the fit test. Am not ruling out Hoka. Am also considering an osprey hydration vest. I think it’s the dyna 6. This way I can carry water and a few things, like hats, gloves, extra socks. I figure that is not something I need right now. I finished GA on the AT. We did 5 miles out and back with 2700 ft of gain, all I kept thinking was how do I run on this (am assuming the answer is slowly).

 

[BikeFan]

Thanks @Baloo in MI I am heading to REI today to check on shoes and I have a local running store I will check with. Honestly that is. My biggest concern getting a pair of shoes I like for the trail. While I did that trail race in my road running shoes, I knew I was not dealing with sloppy conditions. This race is February so could be a lot worse. I really want to try the Salomon odyssey, based on what I read about it, but it’s all in the fit test. Am not ruling out Hoka. Am also considering an osprey hydration vest. I think it’s the dyna 6. This way I can carry water and a few things, like hats, gloves, extra socks. I figure that is not something I need right now. I finished GA on the AT. We did 5 miles out and back with 2700 ft of gain, all I kept thinking was how do I run on this (am assuming the answer is slowly).

@Baloo in MI brought up a great point re traction. Trails can get muddy and slippery, and having shoes with good grip is a life-saver. My one 50-miler was in snow/rain, and it was just a mess on the trail. I was so grateful my shoes were grippy and gave me confidence coming down the hills. As for how you're going to run on trails, you're definitely going to want to do some strategic walking. Run when you can, but anytime traction is iffy or the terrain is too steep, go as slow as you need to go to stay upright and uninjured. Everyone will be walking parts of the course, I'm sure.

I remember meeting so many great DISers over Marathon weekend! Glad to have met you as well!

 

[Baloo in MI]

I have not tried the Solomon Odyssey’s, but I have heard lots of good things about Solomon in general. I use the Nathan VaporAir Hydration Pack. I choose it because it has a good fit for a big guy and a lot of them did not. Lots of good storage and it was on sale... The vest has been so useful. Like shoes it is totally a fit thing but I will say what ever you go with, it will totally extend your runs and provide essential gear, etc. Man, this make we want to run!

 

[dragitoff]

Glad this thread has picked back up. I'm now hitting some decent mileage on my training as I'm scheduled to do a 16 miler this week. My mileage now is almost exclusively trails as I've only logged 10 miles in road shoes (and it was on a treadmill) in the past 60 days. I did Dopey this year in Hoka Cliftons and love the cushioning Hokas provided. My first Hoka trail shoes were the new Speedgoats. I loved them on long runs, but after a few nasty falls, I realized they were a little heavier and thicker than what I wanted for a trail shoe. I then tried On Cloudventures. They were the responsive shoes I wanted, but my feet seemed to hurt after runs longer than 8 miles. I've now logged nearly 100 miles on the Hoka Evo Jawz and love them. Perfect balance of Hoka cushioning, but with the responsiveness of minimalist type shoes. As for traction, I don't think there's a better trail shoe out there than these. They've got plenty of deep grips, but they're not so tight that every stick and rock gets trapped in them.

I can tell you though, I'm ready for cooler temps. These long runs in 95% humidity and near 80 degree temps pre-sunrise are brutal in the south!

 

[dragitoff]

Guess I should also mention, I'm still really enjoying fueling with Tailwind (which was a topic of discussion earlier in this thread). I'm going to start experimenting with some solid foods as I get closer to the 20 mile barrier to see how my stomach handles it. I had a thought on one food to try that I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere. I was thinking of taking saltines and putting a little peanut butter on them and making my own peanut butter crackers. I felt like that would give me some carbs and protein and even salt (to help when temps are higher which can be anytime of the year where I live), but not so harsh that I may have stomach issues. Since I'll be wearing a hydration vest, carrying them in a small, resealable hard plastic Tupperware type container should be easy enough and will keep them from breaking.

I also think the hardest thing of this training (other than the heat and humidity) has been making myself run slow enough to try to stay in an aerobic type pace rather than anaerobic which, to my understanding, depletes your glycogen quicker. That pace is about 1mm slower than what I ran this year for Dopey, which was slower than my individual race PR's by a substantial amount. I'm used to being a reasonably fast runner for my age and weight so slowing down that much goes against my natural desire, but seems to be helping me on my endurance but most importantly, on my recovery after each run.

 

[FFigawi]

Salted potatoes are a great way to get carbs & protein

 

[dragitoff]

Super quick add-on to the discussion on the Hoka Evo Jawz. The only complaint I've got with those shoes is they've bled blue dye on my feet. The first pair I bought I told my local running store about it and they got me another pair. Second pair had the same problem. Hoka let me keep both pairs. First pair has finally stopped bleeding blue dye on my feet after about 60 miles. hopefully the second one will soon. Apparently, there's something in the material that causes this and I'm hopeful they correct it before the next version comes out later this year.