Ugh Ugh Ugh

[wdwstar]

I think the debate here is not about how a 18 month old behaves, its about why the parents didnt take precautions or take charge of the problem, passing the child back and forth , sounds like it made the problem worse

 

[GEM]

Actually, I think there are 3 "debates" here.

1. Should lap babies be allowed on airplanes?
2. How should parents deal with a very young child in the midst of complete meltdown?
3. What is reasonable and expected behavior from a child that age?

 

[ducklite]

Originally posted by wdwstar
I think the debate here is not about how a 18 month old behaves, its about why the parents didnt take precautions or take charge of the problem, passing the child back and forth , sounds like it made the problem worse

Exactly. I am not blaming the kid, but the parents for poor parenting skills by not setting limits, and being ridiculous in not getting their active and too big to be a lap baby child his own seat.

I went back and reread my original post. I wasn't blaming the kid, but the parents. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough to begin with.

Anne

 

[GEM]

I don't think you were blaming the kid at all in your post. That happened later with other posters.

 

[maciec]

ducklite thanks for posting back about what the parents did to help control the situtation.

Obviously they do not read these boards or they would have known what to do and what not to do on an airplane.

I've come down off of the fence and now blame the parents for this scene.

From what you are describing it doesn't sound like there were any problems with the child other than it didn't want to sit in their momma or daddy's lap.
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And of course, when that situation happens in a show, restaurant, etc. you just get up and take the baby outside. You can't really do that on an airplane, can you? Sometimes all the humming, bouncing, singing, distracting, and cheerios , in the world just won't do the trick.
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Gem, I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. In this case I do believe that there was something that the parents could have done to get their child to quiet down because it sounds like they did nothing. You are right that you can't take the baby off of the plane to remove them from the situation. If you know your child and what makes them happy, IMHO, I think that you can get them to quiet down. I think that if the parents had been better prepared they could have stopped this situation before or shortly after it started.

I also believe that the parents should have apologized to the people that were sitting around them. I've apologized individually to a filled plane on a Dash 8 because dd cried for 15 minutes of a 1 hour flight because she banged her head on the inside of the plane. She was 15 months old at the time and very tired which made it worse.

 

[GEM]

You are right. It does sound like something could have been done in this situation. My point was that a screaming baby doesn't ALWAY mean that parents aren't doing anything to try and stop it. I've seen lots of frantic parents trying everything they can think of to no avail. That certainly isn't always the case, but sometimes it is.

Originally posted by maciec
If you know your child and what makes them happy, IMHO, I think that you can get them to quiet down.

If that were always true, no parent would ever walk the floor in the middle of the night with a screaming baby or leave a restaurant in humiliation in the middle of a meal because their two year old was having a meltdown.

 

[NotUrsula]

I've got to tell you, I'm not a person who's enamored of the miracle of babies. I love my child, but from the moment of his birth I've disdained the illusion that he's so adorable that he can't and won't make someone mad enough to kill him given the opportunity. (He looks like a Botticelli cherub, BTW; and believe me, he is fully aware of how much slack that will buy him with anyone other than his parents! Even Grandma is totally snowed.)

However, being an experienced travelling parent, I have to ask what was wrong with all the other parents of youngsters on that flight, that no one had enough pity on their fellow passengers to care enough to intervene? I agree that the child should have been in a carseat, but since that was water under the bridge at that point, the matter at hand was getting Junior to pipe down. What's the best way to do that? Food. Any travelling parent worth her salt carries a supply of non-messy treats, and I'm no exception. I would have been over there handing that kid animal cookies as soon as I realized that the parents were not equipped to handle the situation. In addition, I would have spoken directly to the child; there is great shock value for kids that age in being reprimanded by someone other than their parents. Eventually, something in my bags of tricks would have worked; I have enough experience to be sure of it.

I actually make a point of speaking to parents whose lap babies are acting up. I chat them up in a helpful and sympathetic manner while encouraging the idea of using a carseat next time. I also offer them Children's Dramamine, because after all that screaming, they will be really lucky if little Johnny doesn't end up urping all over them. (The fact that the Dramamine will probably make little Johnny sleep is a bonus.) Is it manipulative? Yes, it is, but I'm not above manipulating obviously clueless people in order to keep the peace and help make them aware that there are numerous advantages to using a carseat on board an aircraft.

I want to bring up a point here about parents who don't buy seats for their kids and use carseats in them. Six times out of ten, they don't do it because a travel agent or an airline reservations agent has actively discouraged them from doing it. In my early travel-with-kid days, I was given that advice constantly, and was told times past counting by these ground-based people that I was wasting my money and setting myself up for unnecessary hassle. You'll never catch a flight attendant handing out that load of c**p, but by the time the child is actually on the plane, it's too late. So do the travelling public a favor; when people you know mention plans to take small children on trips, tell them the truth about lap babies. Tell them why the carseat is worth the trouble. Spread the word whenever you get the chance, and maybe someone will be spared this ordeal. Every little bit of knowledge helps.

 

[GEM]

You bring up some great points, NotUrsula. However, I can definately say that there is NO WAY I would let my kid have cookies or medicine from somebody I didn't know on an airplane. All your other solutions sound great, though.

 

[NotUrsula]

I should perhaps have noted that the snacks and Dramamine I carry on trips are the individually packaged sort, still factory sealed. People usually take them gratefully when I offer.

 

[Goof]

Ducklite, thanks for the clarification on what really happened and what steps the parents "DID NOT" take. Sorry that you had such a miserable experience. I also, fully agree with the posts from DeeCees in defense of the child.

However, being an experienced travelling parent, I have to ask what was wrong with all the other parents of youngsters on that flight, that no one had enough pity on their fellow passengers to care enough to intervene? I agree that the child should have been in a carseat, but since that was water under the bridge at that point, the matter at hand was getting Junior to pipe down. What's the best way to do that? Food. Any travelling parent worth her salt carries a supply of non-messy treats, and I'm no exception. I would have been over there handing that kid animal cookies as soon as I realized that the parents were not equipped to handle the situation. In addition, I would have spoken directly to the child; there is great shock value for kids that age in being reprimanded by someone other than their parents. Eventually, something in my bags of tricks would have worked; I have enough experience to be sure of it.

NotUrsula, Your entire post made the most sense. Maybe if someone had intervened on a pleasant note, things could have possibly gotten better for the child and the parents.

The most irritating post i did read though, was from the person who so charmingly mentioned he (or she) would take it upon himself (or herself) to place a "Baby Muzzle" on the toddler. That contributed absolutely nothing to this topic whatsoever.

 

[GEM]

Originally posted by NotUrsula
I should perhaps have noted that the snacks and Dramamine I carry on trips are the individually packaged sort, still factory sealed. People usually take them gratefully when I offer.

Yeah. That makes a big difference. Thanks for clearing that up.

Sometimes, just a new, interesting person talking to the baby makes a huge difference!

We were on a flight to the Bahamas last year and this little guy in the row in front of us (maybe around 6 months old) was just wailing like crazy. They tried him in and out of his carseat and it didn't seem to matter. They tried snacks, toys, etc. Finally, this older man in the row in front of them turned around and started talking and palying Peek-a-boo with the baby. That seemed to do the trick. I guess it gave him someone new to investigate. I'm sure parents (and everyone else on the flight) wanted to kiss that old guy!

 

[Trekker]

I think if you all want to continue debating:

1. Who should fly - who should not fly
2. Kids with - without seats on the plane
3. Good parent - lousy parent
4. etc

You really should do that on the debate board - where if phrased properly good debates are encouraged - - -

Bye - Bye to this one!