UAW Concessions?

[whjoyjr]

Total compensation per hour for the big-three carmakers is $73.20. That's a 52 percent differential from Toyota's (Detroit South) $48 compensation (wages + health and retirement benefits). In fact, the oversized UAW-driven pay package for Detroit is 132 percent higher than that of the entire manufacturing sector of the U.S., which comes in at $31.59.

And then there's this:



http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2008/11/13/a-cancer-on-the-big-three/

A government bailout without concessions by the UAW and management would be insane. But we'll probably do it anyway.

It takes 2 to come to an agreement. Again, If the union needs to take concessions, then the management needs to pony up just as much. Including their healthcare (here is a hint, the CEO and his family get lifetime healthcare benefits) and pensions (hint, the CEO also gets a, gasp, lifetime pension).

 

[whjoyjr]

Yes, any company that is receiving Federal Funds should have limits placed upon their compensation structures for executive employees. Yes, if UAW auto workers want to keep their jobs, they are going to have to agree to major concessions.

Fine, If you want to take from the union retiree's, then you need to also levy the same cuts on retired / former CEO's, Presidents, Vice Presidents and Board of Director members.

Let's hear that call at the same level as "Crash the Union!"...

 

[loco4dis]

A bailout of GM without MAJOR concessions from the UAW would be an epic waste of taxpayer money, and an insult to those of us who pay taxes. The UAW is a corrupt organization, in bed with corrupt politicians that will allow it to continue its corruption unfettered (see Card Check legislation, for example). In fact, I have always been one of those "buy American" relics, trying to give my support to American car manufacturers. In this past election, though, the UAW's multi-million support of a certain socialist candidate for president sent me right around the bend. For the first time in my life, I am going to buy a foreign car, and frankly, I couldn't care less if GM goes belly up. The company deserves it for decades of bad management; the unions deserve it for decades of greed and corruption. Let them eat cake!

 

[whjoyjr]

A bailout of GM without MAJOR concessions from the UAW would be an epic waste of taxpayer money, and an insult to those of us who pay taxes. The UAW is a corrupt organization, in bed with corrupt politicians that will allow it to continue its corruption unfettered (see Card Check legislation, for example). In fact, I have always been one of those "buy American" relics, trying to give my support to American car manufacturers. In this past election, though, the UAW's multi-million support of a certain socialist candidate for president sent me right around the bend. For the first time in my life, I am going to buy a foreign car, and frankly, I couldn't care less if GM goes belly up. The company deserves it for decades of bad management; the unions deserve it for decades of greed and corruption. Let them eat cake!

Why not concessions from Management as well? Why only ask for the union to make concessions?

 

[loco4dis]

Why not concessions from Management as well? Why only ask for the union to make concessions?

Well of course management should make concessions, but while I know that this or that executive's salary sounds huge, it's still a drop in the bucket compared to what the union contracts cost the company. Moreover, all of the U.S. car companies have made huge cuts in their white collar workforces in recent years, eliminating entire divisions and layers of management. The Big 3 are not going bankrupt because of executive compensation; they are going bankrupt because of the luxurious UAW contracts and pension plans they have been bullied into year after year after year. With each new contract, the UAW comes closer and closer to whistling past the graveyard, and they do not care. The corrupt union leadership cares less than I do about the average worker and whether or not he/she loses a job. The wealthiest people associated with the car companies right now are the corrupt union bosses. If a GM president can figure out how to cut the union largesse and save the company, then I'd say he (or she) is worth anything the company wants to pay him or her.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Total compensation per hour for the big-three carmakers is $73.20. That's a 52 percent differential from Toyota's (Detroit South) $48 compensation (wages + health and retirement benefits). In fact, the oversized UAW-driven pay package for Detroit is 132 percent higher than that of the entire manufacturing sector of the U.S., which comes in at $31.59.

And then there's this:



http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2008/11/13/a-cancer-on-the-big-three/

A government bailout without concessions by the UAW and management would be insane. But we'll probably do it anyway.

Yes, the DEMS will help out the big three and give UAW everything they want without concessions. The dems owe the unions so now they will pay them back with our money. This really burns my belly because it will not solve the problem.

 

[Topper]

Yes, the DEMS will help out the big three and give UAW everything they want without concessions. The dems owe the unions so now they will pay them back with our money. This really burns my belly because it will not solve the problem.

Source??

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Source??

I'm saying it is going to happen, it hasn't happen, yet. Just wait. Monday is a big day.

 

[TCPluto]

Why not concessions from Management as well? Why only ask for the union to make concessions?

Absolutely, management should make concessions.

But the real probelm is the labor unions.

I had a neighbor who worked for GM. They closed his plant and instead of driving 30 miles to another plant, he chose to go into the Job Bank, the program previously mentioned. GM paid him 90% of his wages, plus benefits, to stay home. For over four years. There were thousands of employees doing this.

How can anyone say this is the right thing to do? How can this expense not decimate a company?

It's these things that the unions should be ashamed of.

 

[RitaE]

Fine, If you want to take from the union retiree's, then you need to also levy the same cuts on retired / former CEO's, Presidents, Vice Presidents and Board of Director members.

Let's hear that call at the same level as "Crash the Union!"...

Do you understand that when the company goes completely belly up and ceases to exist, nobody will be receiving their pensions, nobody will be receiving their health care, nobody will be receiving the paychecks?

Again, I have not heard one single person suggest that only the Union should make concessions, but this is not a Union vs Management battle. This is a "Can This Company Be Saved?" battle.

So which side of that battle do you want to be on?

 

[mickeysgal]

Do you understand that when the company goes completely belly up and ceases to exist, nobody will be receiving their pensions, nobody will be receiving their health care, nobody will be receiving the paychecks?

Again, I have not heard one single person suggest that only the Union should make concessions, but this is not a Union vs Management battle. This is a "Can This Company Be Saved?" battle.

So which side of that battle do you want to be on?

Right.

Unfortunately unions twist it so that the finger is always pointed at management and don't look to themselves as a root cause.

 

[RitaZ.]

Absolutely, management should make concessions.

But the real probelm is the labor unions.

I had a neighbor who worked for GM. They closed his plant and instead of driving 30 miles to another plant, he chose to go into the Job Bank, the program previously mentioned. GM paid him 90% of his wages, plus benefits, to stay home. For over four years. There were thousands of employees doing this.

How can anyone say this is the right thing to do? How can this expense not decimate a company?

It's these things that the unions should be ashamed of.

 

[minnie61650]

Just trying to understand which is preferable...a bankruptcy or a bailout? What is so horrible about declaring a bankruptcy?

From this article:

How Bankruptcy Would Wreck GM and Chrysler
August 22, 2008 11:06 AM ET | Rick Newman

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/8/22/how-bankruptcy-would-wreck-gm-and-chrysler.html

But for GM or Chrysler, declaring bankruptcy would be more like slashing their own tires. Customers would flee, consumers would be unsympathetic, and the government would probably do little to help. Here's why bankruptcy would be such a dire scenario for any one of the Detroit 3:

Buyers would bail. When airlines like United, Delta, and Northwest declared bankruptcy, most fliers stuck with them. That's because it was clear those airlines would stay in business at least long enough to honor their tickets. But it wouldn't work that way for an automaker. Most people who buy airline tickets plan to use them within weeks. But consumers spend way more on a car than an airline ticket, and commit to the product for years. It's kind of important that the company selling the product be around to make good on a 60,000-mile warranty, service the car, and supply parts.

Simply declaring bankruptcy would be a disaster for an automaker, even if the company seemed likely to ultimately survive. In a survey conducted by CNW Marketing Research, 80 percent of people close to buying a new car said they would abandon an automaker if it were to file for bankruptcy. Not surprisingly, the numbers were higher for the Detroit 3, and lower for most foreign makes. An automaker could forestall the doom somewhat by offering fire sale prices—but selling cars at a loss would only perpetuate underlying profitability problems. "In today's marketplace, bankruptcy for General Motors (or any major automaker) is a death knell," CNW concluded in a recent newsletter.

Bankruptcy wouldn't solve much. For airlines and other big companies that have successfully emerged from bankruptcy, Chapter 11 allowed them to cut costs and other expenses they were unable to address under normal operations. The airlines, for instance, were able to slash pensions and renegotiate rich labor contracts that were signed when the airlines were flush, but which they could no longer afford. That improved cash flow and helped them get back on their feet............

Bankruptcy might allow Chrysler or GM to offload some debt—but it wouldn't do anything to increase revenue, speed the arrival of must-have new products like slick compact cars and family-oriented crossovers, or fund technology breakthroughs like GM hopes the Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid will be..........

 

[TCPluto]

Do you understand that when the company goes completely belly up and ceases to exist, nobody will be receiving their pensions, nobody will be receiving their health care, nobody will be receiving the paychecks?

Again, I have not heard one single person suggest that only the Union should make concessions, but this is not a Union vs Management battle. This is a "Can This Company Be Saved?" battle.

So which side of that battle do you want to be on?

You've identified the problem. The union only cares about themselves,and only for the day. They are too short sighted to see that they are a huge factor in this problem and they will be the death of these companies.

Then they can all sit around (except they won't be getting paid to do so), and talk about "back in the day".

 

[S. C.]

Absolutely, management should make concessions.

But the real probelm is the labor unions.

I had a neighbor who worked for GM. They closed his plant and instead of driving 30 miles to another plant, he chose to go into the Job Bank, the program previously mentioned. GM paid him 90% of his wages, plus benefits, to stay home. For over four years. There were thousands of employees doing this.

How can anyone say this is the right thing to do? How can this expense not decimate a company?

It's these things that the unions should be ashamed of.

The real problem is the credit crunch and the economy.

I think your neighbor was pulling your leg on that one. If they offer a job within (i believe it is) 100 miles from their home plant then workers have to take it.

And if there were thousands of employees in the jobs bank that tells me there were no jobs to send most of them to! Some workers in jobs bank were sent to community work to help the poor and elderly while in jobs bank.

 

[TCPluto]

The real problem is the credit crunch and the economy.

I think your neighbor was pulling your leg on that one. If they offer a job within (i believe it is) 100 miles from their home plant then workers have to take it.

And if there were thousands of employees in the jobs bank that tells me there were no jobs to send most of them to! Some workers in jobs bank were sent to community work to help the poor and elderly while in jobs bank.

Nope, no pulling of the leg. It was the real, disgusting, deal brokered by the union.

He didn't work, he didn't do any community service, didn't go back for more education. Stayed home, Mr. Mom.

If you don't think there were thousands of these people in Metro Detroit, you're not being realistic. Now add in the rest of the country.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

The real problem is the credit crunch and the economy.

So you think the UAW and the CEOs are not the problem?

 

[loco4dis]

The real problem is the credit crunch and the economy.

I think your neighbor was pulling your leg on that one. If they offer a job within (i believe it is) 100 miles from their home plant then workers have to take it.

And if there were thousands of employees in the jobs bank that tells me there were no jobs to send most of them to! Some workers in jobs bank were sent to community work to help the poor and elderly while in jobs bank.

In a bad economy, people tighten belts and cut costs — except for the UAW. And if, as you say, UAW workers in job banks were sent somewhere to "help" the poor and elderly, it should be noted that they were being paid nearly $70 hour in wages and benefits for their altruistic "work." Most folks do that kind of thing for free, and they aren't "sent," they volunteer; few do it for $70 an hour.

 

[petrymom]

Why not concessions from Management as well? Why only ask for the union to make concessions?

I agree.... Isn't management usually NON-Union? Is this the case with the auto makers?

My other thought to the poster that mentioned that GM couldn't keep up with the foreign auto makers on small cars is why is that? Because they didn't stick any money to making more fuel efficient vehicles when they should have? I bought my first foreign vehicle this past year after being a devote "buy american" consumer. Ultimately, it came down to mileage. Mitsubishi made a 4 wheel drive (I live in a very rural area) that gets 30 miles to the gallon. NONE of the big three are even close.

 

[S. C.]

Nope, no pulling of the leg. It was the real, disgusting, deal brokered by the union.

He didn't work, he didn't do any community service, didn't go back for more education. Stayed home, Mr. Mom.

If you don't think there were thousands of these people in Metro Detroit, you're not being realistic. Now add in the rest of the country.

My point was I think he was pulling your leg about them offering him a job 30 miles away and him having a choice of working or being in jobs bank. I didn't say he wasn't in jobs bank.

When did I say there weren't thousands of people in Metro Detroit out of a job? I said if there were thousands of people out of jobs than I doubt they had jobs to offer.