Two Alligators Involved

[Lothlórien]

I haven't believed the story since it happened - i still think the parents had something to do with it - just fishy over all

I am not sure that there was foul play involved, but if there was, Disney has great lawyers and it will come out. There may have been some neglect, but truthfully we just don't know.

I will admit in the beginning, I was quick to blame the parents. I am not a perfect parent, but I do know I would have never had my 4-year-old in a pack and play while my 2-year-old was playing in the water where there is a no swimming sign......but then, I thought, "you know, these parents are in Disney. They probably feel like they are in the safest place they could be. What can go wrong?" I feel horrible for their family. It is a parent's worst nightmare to have to bury your baby. They will no doubt sue Disney, but no amount of money can bring their lovey back....and that poor daddy has to live with those images for the rest of his life. To me, if there was any neglect on his part, he will pay the dues for the rest of his life. May God bring him peace, because he needs it.

 

[disneyworldaddict]

I'm sorry I just don't see the significance in the number of gators. It's not as if they were planted by Disney to attack a child.

I'm from the northeast. When I've gone camping in national parks I've seen signs that warn not to feed wildlife, but that didn't stop me from running into bears, twice, while hiking with my young children. Once it was 2 bears, once it was one. Would it have mattered if they had gotten us???? Would it have been either parks' fault?

What that family experienced I can't even wrap my head around. And I certainly don't want to blame them in anyway. I've waded in those lakes and I'm very aware of alligators. I've taken pictures of alligators there, from a safe distance while zooming in. I know they are there. And yet I've put my feet in those waters. Of course I understand alligators don't just stay in the water, they do cross land and climb fences. Which is why Disney and all other businesses in Florida can't control them.

If it was my beloved little child I would most certainly be looking to blame someone. But as someone that can see it from a less emotional viewpoint it is a horrible tragedy, but one that really wasn't anyone's fault. Certainly not the family's, but not Disney's either. Alligators have been photographed in water on Disney rides! They get places we don't want them to be and someday again, in spite of all we do, something will happen again.

 

[LaidBackDad]

Yes. There seems to be the thought process that there are lifeguards ON the beach. There are not because you are not to enter the water. The lifeguard was over by the pool. By time he left his post and got down to the beach .... it was over.

Agree. Much of our family is living in Nebraska, we have been many times and swim in the water there. I've been to the family's town, know where they live. I spoke to our family, not knowing where they fell on this. Their answer - in Nebraska you would never enter the water or go on the banks of the waterways in the evenings as they too have many animals such as beavers, snakes etc that could be harmful. They would never let their children play in/near water after dark. They may live in the middle of the country but are very aware that alligators and other animals are wild in Florida and elsewhere. Also if you have seen that water, not a foot or so out (where they said he was) is long waving underwater plants, perfect home for snakes. I wouldn't put my feet a inch deep in that water just based on what it looks like, even if I knew nothing else.

THIS is an very interesting read by Danny Cevallos is a CNN legal analyst and a personal injury & criminal defense attorney. His comments are very specific to Florida law. I know there have been other cases such as this that the defendant was found not fully liable due to it being wildlife. I think the questionable nature of the outcome could mean out of court settlement.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/opinions/hotels-may-avoid-liability-alligator-attack-danny-cevallos/

I wish people would stop insisting that alligators on WDW property are inevitable and there is nothing they can do about it. That assumption is completely false. There are wildlife control measures that can be implemented relatively easily and fairly inexpensively that would all but eliminate any future possibilities of an attack. There is no place in WDW for alligators. They can post all the signs they want but unless they eradicate the real danger, another attack will always be a possibility. The quoted article is very interesting and the fantasy environment / ambiance WDW strives so hard to create does lend itself to special circumstances. People are simply whisked away from reality when on vacation at WDW and they forget reality, even if it is only momentarily. The biggest liability the corporate lawyers will have to overcome is how the company can work so hard at lulling guest into a false sense of security in a fantasy environment all the while knowing there were deadly predators lurking mere feet away from their guest.

During one of my visits to AK the path between Dinoland and the Finding Nemo theater was nearly blocked by a mob of about 40 or 50 guest gathered around a 4 foot water snake (harmless) as it slithered down the asphalt unfazed by the crowd. What amazed me was that variety of snake is often mistaken for a water moccasin (extremely venomous). People where letting their children almost touch the snake as they posed for pictures. There was not a cast member in sight and there is no way all those people knew the snake wasn't venomous. I even heard people in the crowd speculating that it wasn't a real snake or that the snake was tame and part of the ambiance of AK. The point is, if all those people weren't at WDW, there is no way that many people would have reacted the way they did to the snake. WDW creates a suspension of disbelief in its guest and needs to take stronger measures to protect its guest from hazardous wildlife.

 

[LSLS]

I wish people would stop insisting that alligators on WDW property are inevitable and there is nothing they can do about it. That assumption is completely false. There are wildlife control measures that can be implemented relatively easily and fairly inexpensively that would all but eliminate any future possibilities of an attack. There is no place in WDW for alligators. They can post all the signs they want but unless they irradiate the real danger, another attack will always be a possibility. The quoted article is very interesting and the fantasy environment / ambiance WDW strives so hard to create does lend itself to special circumstances. People are simply whisked away from reality when on vacation at WDW and they forget reality, even if it is only momentarily. The biggest liability the corporate lawyers will have to overcome is how the company can work so hard at lulling guest into a false sense of security in a fantasy environment all the while knowing there were deadly predators lurking mere feet away from their guest.

During one of my visits to AK the path between Dinoland and the Finding Nemo theater was nearly blocked by a mob of about 40 or 50 guest gathered around a 4 foot water snake (harmless) as it slithered down the asphalt unfazed by the crowd. What amazed me was that variety of snake is often mistaken for a water moccasin (extremely venomous). People where letting their children almost touch the snake as they posed for pictures. There was not a cast member in sight and there is no way all those people knew the snake wasn't venomous. I even heard people in the crowd speculating that it wasn't a real snake or that the snake was tame and part of the ambiance of AK. The point is, if all those people weren't at WDW, there is no way that many people would have reacted the way they did to the snake. WDW creates a suspension of disbelief in its guest and needs to take stronger measures to protect its guest from hazardous wildlife.

You aren't keeping them out. Gators don't just stay in one spot. And when they are on a breeding mission, they are not stopped by barriers. Fences don't work, and even if they did, are you proposing building a 40 mile fence? This isn't a neighborhood we are talking about, this is 40 square miles. Traps are your best bet. But if a gator under 4 feet enters the waters, IT CAN NOT BE REMOVED. And that gator will grow. So once it reaches over 4 feet, your goal becomes to find and kill it. But you absolutely can't just keep gators out of an area this size. They will find ways in. Argue they should be doing more all you want, but they can't just keep them permanently out.

 

[LaidBackDad]

You aren't keeping them out. Gators don't just stay in one spot. And when they are on a breeding mission, they are not stopped by barriers. Fences don't work, and even if they did, are you proposing building a 40 mile fence? This isn't a neighborhood we are talking about, this is 40 square miles. Traps are your best bet. But if a gator under 4 feet enters the waters, IT CAN NOT BE REMOVED. And that gator will grow. So once it reaches over 4 feet, your goal becomes to find and kill it. But you absolutely can't just keep gators out of an area this size. They will find ways in. Argue they should be doing more all you want, but they can't just keep them permanently out.

I can understand why you may think it's a daunting task; but, it really isn't that difficult or complicated. As you eluded, one of the first keys to controlling unwanted wildlife is to eliminate the resident / breeding population of the hazardous species. Yes, in this case it is a little more complicated because of the laws protecting alligators; but, as previously mentioned, WDW has special circumstances for which allowances can be made within the protected species guidelines. Once a breeding population is controlled, the migration of the wildlife is much less of a concern and population can be controlled with species specific control techniques. It really isn't that they can't eliminate alligators, it's not that hard. The sticky part for WDW would be dealing with the environmental wackos who care more about baby alligators than they do human children. If WDW took the necessary measures to remove the threat to guest, it would certainly be painted as a giant heartless corporation by the alligator lovers and it would have to deal with unreasonable protest and fallout from the powerful special interest groups. If there is any reason why alligators will never be removed, that is it. Physically controlling the population of hazardous species is the easy part.

 

[LSLS]

I can understand why you may think it's a daunting task; but, it really isn't that difficult or complicated. As you eluded, one of the first keys to controlling unwanted wildlife is to eliminate the resident / breeding population of the hazardous species. Yes, in this case it is a little more complicated because of the laws protecting alligators; but, as previously mentioned, WDW has special circumstances for which allowances can be made within the protected species guidelines. Once a breeding population is controlled, the migration of the wildlife is much less of a concern and population can be controlled with species specific control techniques. It really isn't that they can't eliminate alligators, it's not that hard. The sticky part for WDW would be dealing with the environmental wackos who care more about baby alligators than they do human children. If WDW took the necessary measures to remove the threat to guest, it would certainly be painted as a giant heartless corporation by the alligator lovers and it would have to deal with unreasonable protest and fallout from the powerful special interest groups. If there is any reason why alligators will never be removed, that is it. Physically controlling the population of hazardous species is the easy part.

Disney can not take out baby alligators. It is illegal, and they do not have a work around. And you are out of your mind about eliminating the breeding population. Once again, these animals are mobile. They will move into the area. You are talking like Disney can go take out all gators in central Florida. They can not. FYI, Walt Disney himself would paint them heartless, he is the one that wanted the wildlife preserves. You don't eliminate an entire species because of one attack. This is akin to saying we should get rid off all of the sharks in the ocean, all of the Florida Panthers, all bears, all of every other predator on the planet. It's ridiculous. People shouldn't be in the lakes anyways (gators or no), and if you aren't in the lake, the chances of a gator attack are probably at the bottom of the list of potential injuries at Disney. They should be taking out the ones over 4 feet. But it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep them from entering their lands. I stress, impossible. Your solution is for what to do once they enter the areas.

 

[LaidBackDad]

Disney can not take out baby alligators. It is illegal, and they do not have a work around. And you are out of your mind about eliminating the breeding population. Once again, these animals are mobile. They will move into the area. You are talking like Disney can go take out all gators in central Florida. They can not. FYI, Walt Disney himself would paint them heartless, he is the one that wanted the wildlife preserves. You don't eliminate an entire species because of one attack. This is akin to saying we should get rid off all of the sharks in the ocean, all of the Florida Panthers, all bears, all of every other predator on the planet. It's ridiculous. People shouldn't be in the lakes anyways (gators or no), and if you aren't in the lake, the chances of a gator attack are probably at the bottom of the list of potential injuries at Disney. They should be taking out the ones over 4 feet. But it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep them from entering their lands. I stress, impossible. Your solution is for what to do once they enter the areas.

All of WDW is a work around to normal laws, or have you forgotten about Reedy Creek? Yes, they could work around them if they wanted. Stubbornly insisting alligators can't be eliminated from WDW property is illogical as it can be easily done. Wildlife control is nothing new and is done in many areas around the world with any number of species, with no harmful effects to the species as a whole. You may not like wildlife control measures; but, that does not mean they aren't effective. There is no denying that they work. No one is suggesting eliminating any species from the planet, merely from a very small area where contact with humans is particularly dangerous. It is nothing like eliminating sharks from the ocean. That is the exact type of over-the-top propaganda the animal rights extremist would use against Disney. It's simply about safety. Alligators and humans are not meant to be in close contact with each other. Perhaps they should just close WDW and let the alligators have it since they were there first?

If you want Disney to hang more signs; how about? "If you see an alligator, please notify a cast member immediately". That way the dangerous predator can be dealt with appropriately and not allowed to grow and breed on WDW property.

You are probably right that alligators won't be eliminated from the property. But, it won't happen because of people irrationally ranting about the plight of the poor WDW gators and making up excuses or not understanding how wildlife control is managed. It won't have anything to do with not being able to eliminate the alligators if they wanted to.

 

[romitaz]

I can understand why you may think it's a daunting task; but, it really isn't that difficult or complicated. As you eluded, one of the first keys to controlling unwanted wildlife is to eliminate the resident / breeding population of the hazardous species. Yes, in this case it is a little more complicated because of the laws protecting alligators; but, as previously mentioned, WDW has special circumstances for which allowances can be made within the protected species guidelines. Once a breeding population is controlled, the migration of the wildlife is much less of a concern and population can be controlled with species specific control techniques. It really isn't that they can't eliminate alligators, it's not that hard. The sticky part for WDW would be dealing with the environmental wackos who care more about baby alligators than they do human children. If WDW took the necessary measures to remove the threat to guest, it would certainly be painted as a giant heartless corporation by the alligator lovers and it would have to deal with unreasonable protest and fallout from the powerful special interest groups. If there is any reason why alligators will never be removed, that is it. Physically controlling the population of hazardous species is the easy part.

So you are all for eradicating an apex species because you can. How about should we? Of course, you are the same person that stated this:

"The biggest thing you forget to mention is that we as human beings are also part of the ecological system of the planet and central Florida. We are the apex predators and are the only species that has the ability to control our environment. Alligators attacks happen in places like WDW because we allow them to happen. The reality is no one believed a tragedy like this would ever happen at WDW. Everyone knew it was a possibility; but, for entirely political reasons, people chose not to eliminate the danger."


Still beating that drum are we? " LET'S KILL EM ALL because we are man and that's what we do! It is our right to destroy whatever ecosystem we come across!!!"

I am sure that will go over real well with all of the Nature Conservancy efforts that Disney has helped fund over the years. Not only is it illegal, it is completely unethical.

Wow, I am genuinely afraid for our own species survival with attitudes like that floating around.

 

[rteetz]

All of WDW is a work around to normal laws, or have you forgotten about Reedy Creek? Yes, they could work around them if they wanted. Stubbornly insisting alligators can't be eliminated from WDW property is illogical as it can be easily done. Wildlife control is nothing new and is done in many areas around the world with any number of species, with no harmful effects to the species as a whole. You may not like wildlife control measures; but, that does not mean they aren't effective. There is no denying that they work. No one is suggesting eliminating any species from the planet, merely from a very small area where contact with humans is particularly dangerous. It is nothing like eliminating sharks from the ocean. That is the exact type of over-the-top propaganda the animal rights extremist would use against Disney. It's simply about safety. Alligators and humans are not meant to be in close contact with each other. Perhaps they should just close WDW and let the alligators have it since they were there first?

If you want Disney to hang more signs; how about? "If you see an alligator, please notify a cast member immediately". That way the dangerous predator can be dealt with appropriately and not allowed to grow and breed on WDW property.

You are probably right that alligators won't be eliminated from the property. But, it won't happen because of people irrationally ranting about the plight of the poor WDW gators and making up excuses or not understanding how wildlife control is managed. It won't have anything to do with not being able to eliminate the alligators if they wanted to.

If Alligators could be removed from WDW it would've been done already. Its nearly impossible to think they could be done. If it so easily can be done please share with us how.

Yes WDW is a work around normal laws in terms of reedy creek but Disney can't work around animal laws made at the state level. Disney can work around zoning laws and such but saying they can work around animal laws is just crazy.

Alligators will find a way back, they always have. Just look at the fact that 240 alligators have been removed from WDW property since 2009. Disney works with the Florida Wildlife Commission as well. The claim that they can be eliminated from Disney property is just not correct by any means.

 

[romitaz]

All of WDW is a work around to normal laws, or have you forgotten about Reedy Creek? Yes, they could work around them if they wanted. Stubbornly insisting alligators can't be eliminated from WDW property is illogical as it can be easily done. Wildlife control is nothing new and is done in many areas around the world with any number of species, with no harmful effects to the species as a whole. You may not like wildlife control measures; but, that does not mean they aren't effective. There is no denying that they work. No one is suggesting eliminating any species from the planet, merely from a very small area where contact with humans is particularly dangerous. It is nothing like eliminating sharks from the ocean. That is the exact type of over-the-top propaganda the animal rights extremist would use against Disney. It's simply about safety. Alligators and humans are not meant to be in close contact with each other. Perhaps they should just close WDW and let the alligators have it since they were there first?

If you want Disney to hang more signs; how about? "If you see an alligator, please notify a cast member immediately". That way the dangerous predator can be dealt with appropriately and not allowed to grow and breed on WDW property.

You are probably right that alligators won't be eliminated from the property. But, it won't happen because of people irrationally ranting about the plight of the poor WDW gators and making up excuses or not understanding how wildlife control is managed. It won't have anything to do with not being able to eliminate the alligators if they wanted to.

I wonder, are you an alligator hunter or a "pest control" person of some kind that has an agenda here? You keep go on about how easy it is to do. It sounds like you are angling for some work.

 

[saskdw]

It would be really great if we could lock this thread and move on to a different topic.

 

[kymom99]

At first I thought the parents were irresponsible in this heartbreaking event. UNTIL.....

I was looking through pictures from our last trip with my grandson. There was a picture, right there as plain as could be, of my 10 year old son on the edge of the water at CBR as the sun was going down! My heart sank into my stomach. Holy cow! It sure changed my thinking!

There could have been 2 alligators. Who knows. In fact if this is the area where people had been feeding them, then there probably were. Have you ever been to those places that keep alligators and let people feed them? As a PP said, they don't sit back and wait their turn

 

[LSLS]

All of WDW is a work around to normal laws, or have you forgotten about Reedy Creek? Yes, they could work around them if they wanted. Stubbornly insisting alligators can't be eliminated from WDW property is illogical as it can be easily done. Wildlife control is nothing new and is done in many areas around the world with any number of species, with no harmful effects to the species as a whole. You may not like wildlife control measures; but, that does not mean they aren't effective. There is no denying that they work. No one is suggesting eliminating any species from the planet, merely from a very small area where contact with humans is particularly dangerous. It is nothing like eliminating sharks from the ocean. That is the exact type of over-the-top propaganda the animal rights extremist would use against Disney. It's simply about safety. Alligators and humans are not meant to be in close contact with each other. Perhaps they should just close WDW and let the alligators have it since they were there first?

If you want Disney to hang more signs; how about? "If you see an alligator, please notify a cast member immediately". That way the dangerous predator can be dealt with appropriately and not allowed to grow and breed on WDW property.

You are probably right that alligators won't be eliminated from the property. But, it won't happen because of people irrationally ranting about the plight of the poor WDW gators and making up excuses or not understanding how wildlife control is managed. It won't have anything to do with not being able to eliminate the alligators if they wanted to.

Reedy Creek does not have the authority to trump the Florida Fish and Wildlife Service just as the city of Lakeland can not say a gator can be killed by a non-licensed trapper in their city limits. They do not have that power, it is not a city ordinance.

Gators and humans live in close contact all over the country. It happens. They are removed when it happens and they exceed a certain size. That is what Disney is doing now, and absolutely should be done. That IS the wildlife control. They can't be stopped from ever entering the water body. You have yet to put forward any idea for stopping this. The one idea you had was to violate state laws and eliminate all gators from the property. But that still means they are on property. So unless you are suggesting that Disney needs to eliminate gators in a buffer zone that is not their property as well, you still have not solved your issue. You say I am using over-the-top propaganda, so maybe I am misunderstanding you. You think all gators should be completely eradicated from Disney World (once again, we are suspending law here, but lets leave that be). What makes Disney different from say Daytona? Should Daytona Beach be eliminating every shark that comes within their coastline?

 

[LaidBackDad]

If Alligators could be removed from WDW it would've been done already. Its nearly impossible to think they could be done. If it so easily can be done please share with us how.

Yes WDW is a work around normal laws in terms of reedy creek but Disney can't work around animal laws made at the state level. Disney can work around zoning laws and such but saying they can work around animal laws is just crazy.

Alligators will find a way back, they always have. Just look at the fact that 240 alligators have been removed from WDW property since 2009. Disney works with the Florida Wildlife Commission as well. The claim that they can be eliminated from Disney property is just not correct by any means.

I don't hold Disney responsible for the tragedy. They are between a rock and a hard place. That doesn't mean I don't think they aren't liable. Just like you shouldn't confuse wanting to get rid of the alligators and actually being able to get rid of the alligators. Clearly, Disney doesn't want the alligators, that's why they removed the ones they did. They undoubtedly could have removed more if that had wanted to. They haven't removed more due to the same hysterical feedback I have been getting, and that would be bad for their image and their business. I consider myself a conservationist; but, human life trumps wildlife every time. I only chimed back in on this subject due to the interesting legal article on a hotels liability when it comes to hazardous wildlife. It would be interesting to see how may of the pro-alligator people would change their tune if they were held financially liable for demanding that the deadly predators be allowed to coexist with children at the resort. There would be a whole lot less opposition to more aggressive wildlife control measures if that was the case. Too bad Disney can't pass their liability to where it belongs.

 

[romitaz]

I don't hold Disney responsible for the tragedy. They are between a rock and a hard place. That doesn't mean I don't think they aren't liable. Just like you shouldn't confuse wanting to get rid of the alligators and actually being able to get rid of the alligators. Clearly, Disney doesn't want the alligators, that's why they removed the ones they did. They undoubtedly could have removed more if that had wanted to. They haven't removed more due to the same hysterical feedback I have been getting, and that would be bad for their image and their business. I consider myself a conservationist; but, human life trumps wildlife every time. I only chimed back in on this subject due to the interesting legal article on a hotels liability when it comes to hazardous wildlife. It would be interesting to see how may of the pro-alligator people would change their tune if they were held financially liable for demanding that the deadly predators be allowed to coexist with children at the resort. There would be a whole lot less opposition to more aggressive wildlife control measures if that was the case. Too bad Disney can't pass their liability to where it belongs.

Do you think we should eradicate the honey bee as well? The "deadly predator" honey bee kills way more people annually than any alligator. You talk about others talking in extremes yet you are just as far on the other side of the spectrum with your asinine views on eradicating a species from an ecosystem. All the while speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You keep talking all of these inexpensive means of eradicating the alligator from Central Florida, yet you have not given a single bit of evidence as to the ways and means of this. Many have repeatedly asked you about said means, yet you remain silent. So please, enlighten us on said method. Or is this a "trade secret"?

 

[LaidBackDad]

Reedy Creek does not have the authority to trump the Florida Fish and Wildlife Service just as the city of Lakeland can not say a gator can be killed by a non-licensed trapper in their city limits. They do not have that power, it is not a city ordinance.

Gators and humans live in close contact all over the country. It happens. They are removed when it happens and they exceed a certain size. That is what Disney is doing now, and absolutely should be done. That IS the wildlife control. They can't be stopped from ever entering the water body. You have yet to put forward any idea for stopping this. The one idea you had was to violate state laws and eliminate all gators from the property. But that still means they are on property. So unless you are suggesting that Disney needs to eliminate gators in a buffer zone that is not their property as well, you still have not solved your issue. You say I am using over-the-top propaganda, so maybe I am misunderstanding you. You think all gators should be completely eradicated from Disney World (once again, we are suspending law here, but lets leave that be). What makes Disney different from say Daytona? Should Daytona Beach be eliminating every shark that comes within their coastline?

If Daytona chose (maybe they have already, I've never been there), they could create shark free swimming areas along the beach with netting, chemical deterrents, decoys and other measures. WDW should be an alligator free zone. Eliminate the resident population (which can be done with multiple techniques), improve barriers at known access points, use of traps, decoys, and chemical measures. There really are too many different methods to talk about here. The only problem for some is that most all of them are more aggressive and would work too well so people wouldn't be able to feed the alligators on their vacation anymore.

 

[rteetz]

I don't hold Disney responsible for the tragedy. They are between a rock and a hard place. That doesn't mean I don't think they aren't liable. Just like you shouldn't confuse wanting to get rid of the alligators and actually being able to get rid of the alligators. Clearly, Disney doesn't want the alligators, that's why they removed the ones they did. They undoubtedly could have removed more if that had wanted to. They haven't removed more due to the same hysterical feedback I have been getting, and that would be bad for their image and their business. I consider myself a conservationist; but, human life trumps wildlife every time. I only chimed back in on this subject due to the interesting legal article on a hotels liability when it comes to hazardous wildlife. It would be interesting to see how may of the pro-alligator people would change their tune if they were held financially liable for demanding that the deadly predators be allowed to coexist with children at the resort. There would be a whole lot less opposition to more aggressive wildlife control measures if that was the case. Too bad Disney can't pass their liability to where it belongs.

I'm not pro alligator but there is only so much Disney can do because of Florida laws. You stated that Disney can remove all alligators from property and keep them off property but that simply is not true.

You say deadly predators shouldn't coexist with children at the resort. Well then you have to get rid of alligators, snakes, bears, vultures and whatever else. That simply is not possible. Children coexist with deadly predators in every day life at their homes, in parks, practically everywhere. Where I live we have coyotes that kill dogs, do we have warning signs and ways to keep coyotes out of the neighborhoods? No.

 

[rteetz]

If Daytona chose (maybe they have already, I've never been there), they could create shark free swimming areas along the beach with netting, chemical deterrents, decoys and other measures. WDW should be an alligator free zone. Eliminate the resident population (which can be done with multiple techniques), improve barriers at known access points, use of traps, decoys, and chemical measures. There really are too many different methods to talk about here. The only problem for some is that most all of them are more aggressive and would work too well so people wouldn't be able to feed the alligators on their vacation anymore.

WDW is not all theme parks. Some of the land Disney owns is designated as wildlife preserves, Disney isn't and doesn't need to eliminate the alligator because simply it's not possible. Wherever there is water in Florida expect a gator to be nearby.

 

[LSLS]

I don't hold Disney responsible for the tragedy. They are between a rock and a hard place. That doesn't mean I don't think they aren't liable. Just like you shouldn't confuse wanting to get rid of the alligators and actually being able to get rid of the alligators. Clearly, Disney doesn't want the alligators, that's why they removed the ones they did. They undoubtedly could have removed more if that had wanted to. They haven't removed more due to the same hysterical feedback I have been getting, and that would be bad for their image and their business. I consider myself a conservationist; but, human life trumps wildlife every time. I only chimed back in on this subject due to the interesting legal article on a hotels liability when it comes to hazardous wildlife. It would be interesting to see how may of the pro-alligator people would change their tune if they were held financially liable for demanding that the deadly predators be allowed to coexist with children at the resort. There would be a whole lot less opposition to more aggressive wildlife control measures if that was the case. Too bad Disney can't pass their liability to where it belongs.

I don't disagree they do have some liability in this. I stated like 2 hours ago that you could definitely have a debate if Disney should be doing more than they even currently are. I also for the last time will state I am for them getting rid of the gators as they catch them within the law. My entire issue has been with your assertion that Disney could keep them off property if they wanted to. That is not the case. They can not do that legally (due to the smaller than 4 foot rule), nor is there any way to keep them from entering the property (they eliminate once the gators enter the property). The only aggressive wildlife control I have seen you suggest is that they catch them as they enter the property, it does not solve the issue of them coming onto property. To be honest, I have no idea what the number of traps/hunters are on property at any given time so I can't really speak to if they should be doing more on that end. Now maybe CMs need better training on what to do when they see a larger gator (over 4 foot)/people near the lakes/people feeding the animals etc. I wouldn't disagree, which is where they do have some liability. So no, I'm not going to pay their financials (well, I'm going there in a few months so I guess in part I am), just as I wouldn't expect you to sit in jail on third degree felony charges if they started offing all gators under 4 foot. But, just don't lose sight of how many gators and humans live in close proximity of each other, and how incredibly rare attacks are. More can be done on Disney's end (at least previously), but people do not need to run in fear of being within 100 yards of water either.

If Daytona chose (maybe they have already, I've never been there), they could create shark free swimming areas along the beach with netting, chemical deterrents, decoys and other measures. WDW should be an alligator free zone. Eliminate the resident population (which can be done with multiple techniques), improve barriers at known access points, use of traps, decoys, and chemical measures. There really are too many different methods to talk about here. The only problem for some is that most all of them are more aggressive and would work too well so people wouldn't be able to feed the alligators on their vacation anymore.

And nets etc. are not a 100% guarantee either, there are countless examples of how that does not work (on top of all of the collateral damage). Gators do not adhere to barriers. They climb, they walk, they get over things if they want to. And the only population you can eliminate are over 4 foot. And Disney has been doing this to an extent. But you will not and can not eliminate gators from ever being on a property.

 

[LaidBackDad]

WDW is not all theme parks. Some of the land Disney owns is designated as wildlife preserves, Disney isn't and doesn't need to eliminate the alligator because simply it's not possible. Wherever there is water in Florida expect a gator to be nearby.

News articles have stated numerous times Disney works closely with Florida wildlife officials. Wildlife preserve boundaries change all the time. All of those legal thing can be changed with cooperation. If Disney went to the State and said it need to eliminate its gator problem, it's something that could be worked out. I can think of one body of water in Florida that I guarantee doesn't have alligators in it. It is the crocodile habitat on Kilimanjaro Safari's. Even if an alligator were to somehow get into the habitat it wouldn't last long. That is basically the same principal of wildlife control and, no you don't need to enclose all of WDW to have the the same effect. You just have to limit the population, restrict access, and remove rouge animals before the pose a threat. Don't get hung up on laws and illegal aspects. They can always be changed or exceptions can be made. We can only hope that a tragedy like can have some good and will help WDW get rid of the alligators (or any other dangerous predators from its property.