TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[mom2mickeyfan]

Disney wants:
(1) Happy Guests
(2) who spend money

Long waiting lines lead to unhappy guests, and when in line they are not spending money.

Original FP was announced (in a speech by Eisner) to get guests out of line and spending money. It was somewhat successful in meeting those goals, but there are still long lines of non spending guests.

FP did cause our family to spend more with Disney. Not in the stores but because of paper FPs, we made yearly trips. My DS is 8 years old and has been to Disney 9 times. We live within 3 hours of a Six Flags and 2 hours of a Carowinds. He has never been to those parks. I'm not sure I can say the same for FP+. Being able to do fewer rides will move us out of the parks to spend our money off-site. We would have many less ADRs. They run the risk of giving us to much free time and checking out the other parks in the area. And just maybe find that we like them just as well without all the hassle Disney has.

 

[faneuil]

Once Disney does go to a reservation-only system, they just need to consider a lot of implementation questions:
- How to distribute FPs throughout the day as rides have available capacity (phone, kiosks)
- How to charge for premium FPs packages (it has already started, folks)
- Whether to institute a small SB line, similar to the single rider lines of today
- How to make it simple. It is now complicated for so many people, to the point of overwhelming

- how to handle all the different types of guests they have
- how to handle guests who run into last minute situations out of their control (illness, delayed flights, etc)
- how to handle backlogs due to weather, etc
- the marketing will have to be better. I still hear ppl thinking they have to pay for it.

If they want guests to spend money, get better quality product in the stores. Maybe even lower the prices a tad.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Interesting theory, however they are building more DVC which would seem to be a focus on return customers. More than likely Disney feels they can be cheap for a while longer and it not affect the bottom line. I personally hope it blows up in there face and they do what universal is doing(building attractions)!

DVC sort of goes both ways. Once you get the signed contract, the sale of the accommodation is over for the next 40 years. But you do still have to try to get the DVCers into the parks though and spending.

Soarin', A&E, and TSMM are clear hints as to what's coming. If you think long standby lines are here to stay, you haven't been paying attention.

I agree unfortunately.

I'd love to see how those bands are going to convince my kids that they WOULD really like to watch O Canada & that Eco-nauseating Lion King movie, when what they really want is a third ride on Soarin. (DH works for GM so thankfully I *think* we still have FOTL for that...)

Kids have a funny way of seeing through stuff like this

 

[faneuil]

Kids have a funny way of seeing through stuff like this

I think there's some kids (heck adults) who would be amused for hours just tapping their band to a Mickey that changes colors all the time.
Sounds like something they'd put in Imagination.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I have been following this thread sporadically, but I haven't read all of the posts. If I am completely off here and it has been discussed extensively, please know I am sorry and if you direct me to the posts where the discussion started, I'll go read that and not take up more space discussing dead-horse topics.

Is it pretty much assumed at this point that Disney is seriously considering going to a FP+only system, at least for the major headliners? In other words, that there is going to come a time in the not-too-distant-future that if you don't have a FP+ for Soarin, Test Track, TSMM, Space Mountain, etc. that you aren't going to get to ride that ride during your trip? And if this is a common theory, do we believe that they are going to start giving people more fast passes at the beginning of their trip, or is it believed that everyone will still have just 3 per day with the possibility of a fourth after the initial three are used?

 

[lugnut33]

It is actually the reverse: return guests dislike change. (see: loss of Off-Kilter)First time guests don't know what to expect/don't know what they have missed/don't often plan well enough to see all of WDW.
.

That is not true and you only need look at Disneyland for proof.

 

[Angel Ariel]

That is not true and you only need look at Disneyland for proof.

The whole "we just dislike change" idea is getting rather old. I have no issues with changes. I've loved how they have updated and changed DLR, which TBH, is my favorite between it and WDW. If I.love the changes they have made at what is my more nostalgic/happy place of the two, then the generalization of just not liking change at all really doesn't apply.

I have no issue with change. I dislike *some* of the changes WDW has made. Disliking *some* change does not equal disliking *all* change.

 

[lugnut33]

The ultimate money maker for Disney would be to give all guests a schedule they have to follow, sort of like their suggested schedules in FP+ now. However, this would structure all guests complete day so that Disney could maximize ride capacity and CM resources. You wouldn't be able to enter the park without a schedule. Plus, there wouldn't be any headaches preplanning because you'd just be given a schedule. Don't like an attraction, skip it you have another one coming up in an hour. Get to the park late, you might start at step 3 for the day. It would be magical and make Disney tons of money because you'd be locked into the parks.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

The whole "we just dislike change" idea is getting rather old. I have no issues with changes. I've loved how they have updated and changed DLR, which TBH, is my favorite between it and WDW. If I.love the changes they have made at what is my more nostalgic/happy place of the two, then the generalization of just not liking change at all really doesn't apply.

I have no issue with change. I dislike *some* of the changes WDW has made. Disliking *some* change does not equal disliking *all* change.

Agreed. I love the changes they made to Haunted Mansion. I enjoyed the changes made to Pirates of the Caribbean. I even (controversial opinion alert) like that they changed Akershus to include the princesses. There are some changes I don't like, however. Off Kilter being replaced by the lumberjack show is one. I can't do Mission Space without getting sick, so I guess you can say I don't like that they changed Horizons. I weigh each change by itself. I don't like the FP+ change. Change in general, though, is not something I have a problem with.

 

[mare1203]

That is not true and you only need look at Disneyland for proof.

Actually, it is true of WDW.

Disneyland is an Annual Passholders park, while WDW is not. Through their research they have found that while Disneyland can handle changes, like the Haunted Mansion overlay, WDW guests rebel against it because there is still a much larger percentage of non-return guests who enter WDW and who want to experience the ride 'as it should be seen'. Should WDW move to being a more passholder dominated destination you might see it, but there is little thought that this will happen in the near to distant future.

 

[lugnut33]

Actually, it is true of WDW.

Disneyland is an Annual Passholders park, while WDW is not. Through their research they have found that while Disneyland can handle changes, like the Haunted Mansion overlay, WDW guests rebel against it because there is still a much larger percentage of non-return guests who enter WDW and who want to experience the ride 'as it should be seen'. Should WDW move to being a more passholder dominated destination you might see it, but there is little thought that this will happen in the near to distant future.

The point I was contesting was that return visitors don't like change and used Disneyland as example to prove that change needs to happen in order to draw repeat visitors. Disneyland's huge AP base makes change a necessity.

I wasn't contesting that first time guests don't know any better.

 

[faneuil]

The ultimate money maker for Disney would be to give all guests a schedule they have to follow, sort of like their suggested schedules in FP+ now. However, this would structure all guests complete day so that Disney could maximize ride capacity and CM resources. You wouldn't be able to enter the park without a schedule. Plus, there wouldn't be any headaches preplanning because you'd just be given a schedule. Don't like an attraction, skip it you have another one coming up in an hour. Get to the park late, you might start at step 3 for the day. It would be magical and make Disney tons of money because you'd be locked into the parks.

You can come late, but you can't leave early.

 

[lugnut33]

Agreed. I love the changes they made to Haunted Mansion. I enjoyed the changes made to Pirates of the Caribbean. I even (controversial opinion alert) like that they changed Akershus to include the princesses. There are some changes I don't like, however. Off Kilter being replaced by the lumberjack show is one. I can't do Mission Space without getting sick, so I guess you can say I don't like that they changed Horizons. I weigh each change by itself. I don't like the FP+ change. Change in general, though, is not something I have a problem with.

And quite honestly both DHS and Epcot feel stagnant at this point. Not much has happened in those parks for years to really plus them and expand capacity.

 

[Laketravis]

.....It would be magical and make Disney tons of money because you'd be locked into the parks.

"You can check out any time you'd like, but you can never leave....."

 

[faneuil]

"You can check out any time you'd like, but you can never leave....."

They'd have to pay royalties for that.

 

[grimley1968]

"You can check out any time you'd like, but you can never leave....."

And that cues up Joe Walsh and Don Felder for an endless duet loop in my head for the rest of the day. But I can think of worse songs to be rattling around in there for hours.

I'm seeing more and more posts assuming a FP-only ride system for many rides in the future. I won't assume that at this point. Such a step is unnecessary, IMHO, if more attractions are added, even if there is a delay of a few years for any future e-ticket attractions, or at least some fast-loading family rides of the omnimover variety.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

And that cues up Joe Walsh and Don Felder for an endless duet loop in my head for the rest of the day. But I can think of worse songs to be rattling around in there for hours.

I'm seeing more and more posts assuming a FP-only ride system for many rides in the future. I won't assume that at this point. Such a step is unnecessary, IMHO, if more attractions are added, even if there is a delay of a few years for any future e-ticket attractions, or at least some fast-loading family rides of the omnimover variety.

I don't know. I felt that moving to FP+ rather than FP was unnecessary, but the powers that be felt it was necessary so people were locked into a specific park. Going to a 100% FP+ system for a number of rides will do an even better job of making sure people are locked into a specific park because there are plenty of rides people want to ride. Currently, a person might get FP+ for Mine Train, Space Mountain, and Splash Mountain. That only locks them in for those hours, though. By making Mine Train, Space Mountain, Thunder Mountain, Splash Mountain, Peter Pan's Flight, Haunted Mansion, and Pirates of the Caribbean FP+ only, a person would, in theory, book all of these for the same day, thereby locking them in to Magic Kingdom all day. Also, my family has noticed that FP+ makes it so we spend less time in the parks. We aren't going to stand in long lines and FP+ makes it so we are only guaranteed those 3 rides with minimal wait, unlike how legacy FP was. So, after our initial 3, we are more likely to leave. And, we are more likely to sleep in and not do rope drop at places like Epcot where there aren't many rides to begin with and not a big chance of doing the headliners more than once. So, if you go to a FP+ system for the majority of rides, a person will more than likely be locked in for a longer period of time at a park. Between rides, they are more likely to shop or eat. Those things aren't likely if the person is back at the hotel taking a nap or going for a swim. I honestly wouldn't assume Disney hasn't considered this just yet.

 

[OtherScott]

Are you saying all those folk that post asking for help with MDE and FP+ aren't smarter than a 6 year old?

Yes

 

[vacationer1954]

I just think you are overlooking the likely second and third order effects of your proposal.

Thanks but please understand that I'm not overlooking the effects. I think your assumptions about what and how they will be are incorrect.

Likewise, Disney does not control how people return during their FP window. Clumping is inevitable particularly around parade and show times.

Of course, but the clumps will be constrained by the number of FP+ while the current standby line is not constrained anywhere near as much. Anyone in the park can join the line around parade and show times.

 

[secretpantssam]

-
If they want guests to spend money, get better quality product in the stores. Maybe even lower the prices a tad.

I was thinking this same thing. I bought a lot less this trip because it felt like the prices jumped way up and the quality wasn't any better. If they lowered the prices just a little bit I'd probably have bought. I think people would buy more stuff if the prices were a little bit lower which would probably make Disney more money in the end.