TSA will issue modified directives

[jctwizzer]

Of course I *can* put cosmetics in checked luggage, but the whole point is that I don't want to check luggage,

Have you considered that what YOU want is not an issue??

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

What is the source of this news?

I just did a quick Google news search, and I didn't see any reports that the TSA would issue such revisions "by the end of the week."

When TSA issues the modified directives, I'm sure they will be listed on their website. My source of the information was a regularly-scheduled intra-agency security meeting this afternoon at which the TSA gave an update. Often times, Airports, Airport Tenants, other government agencies and the airlines (when possible) are given a heads up before the general public. I'm not telling you what the modifications are, just that they're coming.

 

[bavaria]

I would just like to be able to bring chapstick and the sunscreen sticks on the plane so I don't have to buy it at MCO.

you can bring both of those right now...

 

[pbnjrockette]

I think an easing of the liquids ban would make traveling a bit less of a hassle not that that is the TSA's objective.

I like that it is now so much quicker to board without everyone bringing their livingrooms with them. I just wish the airlines would enforce the size of carry-ons --always frustrating to see suitcases larger than my checked luggage being carried on! The bins are usually for 3 passengers and often the carry-on of 1 is all that fits!

 

[bavaria]

My source of the information was a regularly-scheduled intra-agency security meeting this afternoon at which the TSA gave an update. Often times, Airports, Airport Tenants, other government agencies and the airlines (when possible) are given a heads up before the general public. I'm not telling you what the modifications are, just that they're coming.

This does not surprise me at all. As I reported here late last week, the UK restrictions are going to be relaxed (they are already more relaxed than the current US restrictions) in exchange for EU restrictions being tightened. Canada is also considering a relaxation of rules; they are currently MORE strict than the US rules.

 

[bavaria]

My aunt told me it's not allowed. She's a TA. I guess I'll check my airline's website and see what info I find there.

And this is why we quote over and over here 'go to tsa.gov for the updated list'. We've seen so much misinformation here - if one read over the last few weeks of posts the list supposedly includes electronics, all carryons, glasses, prescription medicine, gum, and even certain shades of crayons (that last one was posted as a joke by a poster in an attempt to lighten the mood, yet it was questioned by posters who believed it) None of these items were ever banned in the US since 8/10, yet people hear snippets of information and take it as fact, or they post a question and someone else misinterprets them.

I'm not trying to put anyone down, but for something like this I would go to the official source. The only source is tsa.gov, or BAA for UK travellers, or CATSA for Canadian travellers. No TSA agent is going to care if I tell them that 'CarolA on the Disboards was allowed to bring her XYZ aboard', if the item is not on their list.

 

[NotUrsula]

OK, Haygan, so I guessed wrong on the gender, but you're still missing my point. I don't have any issues with checking bags when I am travelling for leisure, and I don't wear makeup while at WDW anyway. (Also FWIW, I don't use ME; I prefer to drive a rental.) For me, as it is for a whole lot of travelers, this issue is about business, not theme park visits.

And for jctwizzer, yes, what I want *does* matter. It matters because I'm not the only one who wants it: it is an issue of cost and productivity for American business, and you can bet that your elected representatives have been getting an earful from powerful lobbyists about reaching a compromise that will allow business travelers to avoid checking bags on short trips. Not only does the business traveler not spend his/her valuable billable time standing around at a baggage carousel, but airlines sell more profitable last-minute full-fare tickets and they spend a lot less money on baggage handling, and make more money on cargo shipping.

There is one other reason why stepping back the liquids ban *should* matter to all of us: the liquids ban is largely ineffective as it stands in terms of keeping "forbidden" substances off of aircraft, but what it has done is greatly increase the load on TSA's baggage and cargo screening operations. It would be MUCH easier and more effective to put an explosive substance in checked luggage or cargo and detonate it remotely from inside the passenger cabin than it would be to mix an IED in the lavatory or at one's seat. Yes, keep guns and sharps and *large* containers of liquid out of the cabin, but put the really careful screening emphasis back in the bagrooms where it does the most good.

 

[bavaria]

OK, Haygan, so I guessed wrong on the gender, but you're still missing my point. I don't have any issues with checking bags when I am travelling for leisure, and I don't wear makeup while at WDW anyway. (Also FWIW, I don't use ME; I prefer to drive a rental.) For me, as it is for a whole lot of travelers, this issue is about business, not theme park visits.

And for jctwizzer, yes, what I want *does* matter. It matters because I'm not the only one who wants it: it is an issue of cost and productivity for American business, and you can bet that your elected representatives have been getting an earful from powerful lobbyists about reaching a compromise that will allow business travelers to avoid checking bags on short trips. Not only does the business traveler not spend his/her valuable billable time standing around at a baggage carousel, but airlines sell more profitable last-minute full-fare tickets and they spend a lot less money on baggage handling, and make more money on cargo shipping.

Agreed. There are mostly leisure travellers on this website who travel a few times a year. Airlines make their money off those of us who fly weekly, often at full fare.

As an example, over the next 7 weeks I will be in at least 8 destinations for a variety of business reasons. I will be home a total of 3 days, and will most likely head out for a similar 6 week trip in November.

Sure, I ship my toiletries ahead for vacations, IF I have the lead time (I book my vacations spur of the moment) I DON'T have time to deal with shipping and checking bags with a travel schedule like this. The only time I checked a bag before 8/10 was for my longer work trips to one destination, in which I normally took about 50 lbs of work material and 40 lbs of clothes, etc.

For all that everyone likes to feel valuable, the reality is that most airlines will continue to make the bulk of their revenue from the high volume business travel, supplemented by the leisure traveller on off peak days and times. If we don't fly, the airlines lose money, a few go out of business, and as a result there are fewer seats and less competetion, and your leisure fare increases.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Let's just hope the TSA has the guts to pull the liquid/gel ban completely. But I seriously doubt they will (doing so would just be admitting that the ban wasn't necessary in the first place). Instead, I'm betting the come up with a compromise (which they will see as face saving).

As for the overhead bins, the solution is to get the airlines to enforce the rules on amount of stuff allowed, not instituting bans that don't make us safer.

I have to agree with both of these thoughts.

 

[safetymom]

How do you know that the ban on gels isn't making us safer??

 

[salmoneous]

How do you know that the ban on gels isn't making us safer??

As one of our finest posters likes to point out, I don't *know* it isn't making us safer. The TSA may have some secret information about why gels are dangerous that isn't available to the general public or demolition experts.

However, the stated reason for the ban is the London mix-a-bomb-on-the-plane plot. That plot could not possibly have worked. You can't just mix a couple things together and magically get a bomb. The explosive they were trying to make needs hours of mixing at exact temperatures, followed by hours of cooling with no bumps or turbulence at any point. It also produces toxic odors. They are very difficult to mix in a lab - it's near impossible on a plane.

The bigger clue that the liquids/gel ban isn't necessary for safety is all the liquids and gels that are being allowed on the plane. Either these things are dangerous, or they aren't. If they really were dangerous, you'd be banning all liquids and gels. You wouldn't let FA's bring them on board, or parents of small children, or anyone with a prescription. And you would ban all liquids, including those that appear to be food. If anyone really could blow up a plane with liquids and gels, there is no way we would be allowed to bring, say, a couple oranges onto the plane. You can store just as much liquid in an orange as in a sippie cup.

Now, perhaps it was prudent to put the ban in place to easy public fears for a few weeks. But those weeks are up. Right now, TSA agents are wasting thier focus on things that can't blow up a plane. I want them focusing on things that can. (And I want to be able to bring a bottle of water on the plane).

 

[HayGan]

OK, Haygan, so I guessed wrong on the gender, but you're still missing my point. I don't have any issues with checking bags when I am travelling for leisure, and I don't wear makeup while at WDW anyway. (Also FWIW, I don't use ME; I prefer to drive a rental.) For me, as it is for a whole lot of travelers, this issue is about business, not theme park visits.

Nope, I'm not missing your point at all as 95%+ of my trips are for business. Yes, I used to always just take a carry-on and not check anything. But since the ban I have been checking one bag. No problems here. It is actually quite a bit better now to check my rollerboard and just carryon my laptop. Plus I don't have to deal with the routine of oversized/overweight bags being droped on my head as less frequent travelers try to stuff them into the overhead. Nor do I have my toes run over as much by those rollerboards as I wait for my plane or walk through the airport. Boarding is a breeze now as there are far less bags trying to go into the overheads. Sure it was nice not having to check a bag. But for the ease of boarding that has come along with it and the reasons behind it, I am more than willing to wait a few minutes for my checked bag at the carousel.

As for the water issue, I always liked to cary a bottle on board with me. Would I still like to - sure. However, I completely understand the reasons why you can't do that now. Drink service begins shortly after takeoff and every plane is stocked with water and other beverages. I've never had a flight attendant refuse my request for additional water so I really don't see what the big deal is

I agree that the TSA needs to be more proactive rather than reactive but for the time being we have to deal with the situations at hand. I've said it before and I will say it again - air travel is privledge not a right. If you don't like the rules set forth than find a new method of travel.

 

[jodifla]

Anything that speeds things up boarding the plane I am all for it. Why can't you put your cosmetics in your checked luggage?

There are times it's problematic to check bags. I'm flying Thursday with my DS, 4, and we don't get in until midnight. Since we are only staying for the weekend, I don't really want to spend an hour waiting for my two small bags, one for each of us.

Besides the late hour, and inconveniencing the people we're staying with, there's a safety issue as well.

The airport we're flying into pretty much closes up after our flight, making it a scary place to be alone. The cab and car rental service dries up quickly at that time of night, and I've waiting close to an hour for my bags to show up at that time of night.

In my case, I shipped a box ahead of time to my friend, who has already confirmed she has it.

I was not able to do this, though, when I had to fly in quickly for a funeral. I could have easily fit everything into a backpack, but had to use two bags because of the new rules. (I wanted to at least have black clothes with me for the funeral, in case my checked bag got lost.)

 

[CarolA]

How do you know that the ban on gels isn't making us safer??

Because your wonderbra which is gel filled is still allowed???? So if I am the female terrorist where am I putting the get????

 

[LuvAriel]

Ouick question..

I know you can't take liquid lipgloss on the plane, but can you take an actual lipstick????

Thanks

 

[goofy4tink]

While I'm not completely convinced that these 'outlawed' items are a danger to us, and that we are flying safer without them in our carryon's, I have to say that I was looking forward to flying next month without so much of that aggravation of getting stuff stowed overhead!!! It has always amazed me what people feel the need to bring on board a plane. Yes, I get the business traveler...he/she is seldom the problem. And, those vacationers, heading home from Orlando with all that 'stuff' that just has to go with them on the plane!!! Man, it's incredible. I really wish the airlines would start enforcing the carryon rules more completely. I try to be very careful in what I bring with me..usually my purse and a totebag that fits underneath the seat. Only one time have I had to use the overhead bin and that was when my dd and I traveled with one small rollaboard each, nothing else except my purse. Oh, there was one other time...we bought one of the dolls in Germany and had a candy that Miyuki had made...we carefully packed the two of them together and put the box in the overhead. But we had no other bags.
If the airlines would enforce the rules, then life would greatly improve. I have sat there, watching while vacationers tried to shove their 'carryon' bag, every which way into that overhead bin...it was truly incredible to watch. The FA could barely get the door to close over it. Then to spend the amount of time for those bags to be dragged down and everyone in the party to get their stuff together...well, give me a plane full of business travelers thankyou very much!!! I personally hate dragging bags through the airport, dragging them to the ladies room each time, then having to drag it onto the plane. A tote bag is bad enough. But, that's my choice. I realize there are plenty of business travelers out there that 'travel correctly'...I thank you!!!

 

[bavaria]

Ouick question..

I know you can't take liquid lipgloss on the plane, but can you take an actual lipstick????

Thanks

It's not a gel or a liquid. It's fine

 

[bavaria]

While I'm not completely convinced that these 'outlawed' items are a danger to us, and that we are flying safer without them in our carryon's, I have to say that I was looking forward to flying next month without so much of that aggravation of getting stuff stowed overhead!!! It has always amazed me what people feel the need to bring on board a plane. Yes, I get the business traveler...he/she is seldom the problem. And, those vacationers, heading home from Orlando with all that 'stuff' that just has to go with them on the plane!!! Man, it's incredible. I really wish the airlines would start enforcing the carryon rules more completely. I try to be very careful in what I bring with me..usually my purse and a totebag that fits underneath the seat. Only one time have I had to use the overhead bin and that was when my dd and I traveled with one small rollaboard each, nothing else except my purse. Oh, there was one other time...we bought one of the dolls in Germany and had a candy that Miyuki had made...we carefully packed the two of them together and put the box in the overhead. But we had no other bags.
If the airlines would enforce the rules, then life would greatly improve. I have sat there, watching while vacationers tried to shove their 'carryon' bag, every which way into that overhead bin...it was truly incredible to watch. The FA could barely get the door to close over it. Then to spend the amount of time for those bags to be dragged down and everyone in the party to get their stuff together...well, give me a plane full of business travelers thankyou very much!!! I personally hate dragging bags through the airport, dragging them to the ladies room each time, then having to drag it onto the plane. A tote bag is bad enough. But, that's my choice. I realize there are plenty of business travelers out there that 'travel correctly'...I thank you!!!

Totally agree Tink! As I go on about, I fly almost exclusively on United, which really courts business travellers on mainline flights (excluding TED) We almost always pull away from the gate early and boarding is no issue. On TED, it's a whole different story and multiple kitchen sinks are brought on board. I am usually in one of the first few rows or first/business, and it's amazing how many ppl are so rude as to put their bag into one of the very first bins and trek all the way to the back to their seat, leaving no space up front for those who are sitting under those bins.

I have a colleague who actually tells the FA if someone is looking for bin space and she saw a poacher - I'm not that gutsy or have usually dozed off by then, but it happens so often that she'll speak up if it means another traveller may have to gate check their bag due to someone else's ignorance or laziness.

 

[NotUrsula]

Excess carryon baggage and the liquids ban are two different topics. You won't get any argument from me that the one good thing that the ban has done is to cut down on bin overload; but it is an accidental effect, and one that can easily be duplicated by other means. I repeat that I have no objection to restrictions on liquid quantities; in fact, I think that they are a good idea for safety. (Not because of explosives, but because liquid-filled bags are heavy; if they fall on anyone there is potential for nasty injury, and leaks are common and annoying.)

The airlines have no one but themselves to blame for the previous bin situation; they make the bag limit rules and it is up to them to enforce them. Essentially, what they had been doing was trying to save money by having passengers schlep most of their own bags. It has now been brought home to the legacy carriers that that is a double-edged sword: if they carry them on you don't have to pay as many bag handlers, but if they don't carry them on you turn the plane faster. (SWA's turn time hasn't been noticeably affected, IME.)

One thing that I think would help, but which would annoy a lot of people, would be to reduce the "legal" carryon size down to 20". A 20" bag will fit completely under a coach seat, and will fit "wheels-in" in every overhead bin, regardless of the curve of the bulkhead, while a 22" will not always. IME, it's that jiggling and fiddling with "just that smidge too big" 22" bags that causes most boarding delays (well, that and assigned seating )

PS: the worst example of "bin poaching" I've seen recently was a couple of months ago on Frontier. The culprit was a deadheading AA pilot who left his rollaboard in row 3 and sat in row 20something. He was *beyond* t'eed off when he had to check his bag, but to the FAs' credit, they insisted on a gate-check even though he tried to pull the professional-courtesy ticket. It was a 22 in. bag, but it was a very thick one, and it would not fit wheels-in.

 

[bavaria]

Canada will partially lift the ban on sale of liquids/gels and allow airside purchaes to be carried onto some flights as of 9/22/6 - see my seperate post on this board.