TSA mess and the police

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Our son went from LAX to San Diego from SD to JFK this week. He didn't have to go through the new scanner there or be patted down. I had him watching and he said one women in a wheel chair that couldn't go through the old scanners was being patted down, but it didn't seem excessive. YMMV.
The good news for him once again is he wasn't long in the security, because for a change he wasn't profiled.
 
Our son went from LAX to San Diego from SD to JFK this week. He didn't have to go through the new scanner there or be patted down. I had him watching and he said one women in a wheel chair that couldn't go through the old scanners was being patted down, but it didn't seem excessive. YMMV.
The good news for him once again is he wasn't long in the security, because for a change he wasn't profiled.

Glad he had a good experience - and I'm also glad to hear that the woman in the wheelchair didn't seem to have any emotional and/or medical issues that made the pat down uncomfortable for her - or require being brought into a very private area.. I'm so happy she was able to fly..:goodvibes
 
I agree with minkydog 100%.

It's really not that big a deal, people. It's 2 minutes out of your day. It'll be alright. Flying isn't a right, it's a privilege, and if you don't like having to clear security, don't fly, because you don't have a choice.

I'll take a 20 second patdown by another female than take my car across the country ANY day. If you'd rather drive to the MOON than endure such a treacherous patdown, then drive!

Complaining isn't going to change anything!

Actually complaining to the right people is the only way that anything is going to change. If we all just sit back and accept it they will know that they can get away with doing anything they like without a backlash. This is just a conditioning experiment to see how far they can push before people revolt. Before we know it the govt. will be controlling us in many many more ways. This is just the begining unless enough people finally revolt and stand up for their rights. Even when something is a privilege in this country we still have our constitutional rights, at least we are suppose to. They do not just disappear. Driving is also a privilage but the police can not search our car without just cause. Although more and more our constitutional rights are disappearing because of people like you that are too accepting and just throw your hands up and say stop complaining and if you don't like it find another way. People have to stop letting the govt. bully them with scare tactics in order to get us to accept things that are wrong. The truth is we are no safer today than we were before 911. If someone wants to hurt us there are many ways they can do so. Have any of you that are so accpeting of the govts. so called safety measures ever asked how come they are only focused on planes and airport security and not other locations such as bus and train stations etc. or even cargo? Yes we were attacked using planes already but do you really think the people that want to hurt us are only focusing on planes?
 
Just went through security at Albany, NY. No scanners and very easy. One woman beeped and was pulled aside and was scanned. Gloves were worn and changed.
 

Actually complaining to the right people is the only way that anything is going to change. If we all just sit back and accept it they will know that they can get away with doing anything they like without a backlash.
"The right people" being your specific Members of Congress. Regardless, the problem isn't the complaining to your Members of Congress - the problem is the efforts to exploit our nation's salacious and sensationalistic media (fostering unreasonable fear, uncertainty and doubt) in order to incite others to unwarranted panic. The attempt to create "backlash" (a clearly effrontery tactic) indicates an intention to bypass reasonable consideration.

This is just a conditioning experiment to see how far they can push before people revolt. Before we know it the govt. will be controlling us in many many more ways.
That's simply more FUD.

Contrary to what you've claimed, the reality is that people have been getting more and more and more freedoms over the years.

For example: The local government, here in (what was then) Woburn parish, used to put folks in prison for not attending the Congregational church on Sunday. Even the Episcopalians. They had religious freedom: After attending the Congregational worship service, they could go off to their Episcopalian worship service. This continued well into the 19th century.

Indeed, perhaps, in some cases, freedoms are being acquired quicker than the law has a chance to catch up in terms of providing protection for us from the harm that may stem from some exploitations of the freedoms practiced by other people. Freedom has never, and can never, be absolute, except in a society of one person. Our society strikes a balance that supports progress while preventing anarchy. Neither extreme gets their way - neither your extreme, i.e., whatever freedom you want; nor the opposite extreme, i.e., safety through control trumping freedom absolutely.

This is just the begining unless enough people finally revolt and stand up for their rights.
This is not the beginning nor ending. There is nothing particularly unique about this situation. It is a natural progression spawned by the realities of the changing world we live in.

Even when something is a privilege in this country we still have our constitutional rights, at least we are suppose to.
And you do. Unlike the Episcopalians who were compelled to go to Congregational worship services, you are not compelled to fly. Stop trying to make it sound like freedom is being abridged, when all that is happening is that you want to be able to fly without complying with the requirements for doing so, requirements arrived at through reasonable consideration of all the obligations and objectives of the government and the agency, rather than just one passenger's personal preference.
 
The big fear of course is that the terrorists have already evolved past what our technology can detect. We are always forced to play catch up.
 
"This is not the beginning nor ending. There is nothing particularly unique about this situation. It is a natural progression spawned by the realities of the changing world we live in.

And you do. Unlike the Episcopalians who were compelled to go to Congregational worship services, you are not compelled to fly. Stop trying to make it sound like freedom is being abridged, when all that is happening is that you want to be able to fly without complying with the requirements for doing so, requirements arrived at through reasonable consideration of all the obligations and objectives of the government and the agency, rather than just one passenger's personal preference.

Pretty much it in a nutshell and which sums up the problem. every body wants to fly under "their" requirements and when they cannot every one rolls out the "we are becoming controlled by the government" rhetoric.
 
Actually complaining to the right people is the only way that anything is going to change. If we all just sit back and accept it they will know that they can get away with doing anything they like without a backlash. This is just a conditioning experiment to see how far they can push before people revolt. Before we know it the govt. will be controlling us in many many more ways. This is just the begining unless enough people finally revolt and stand up for their rights. Even when something is a privilege in this country we still have our constitutional rights, at least we are suppose to. They do not just disappear. Driving is also a privilage but the police can not search our car without just cause. Although more and more our constitutional rights are disappearing because of people like you that are too accepting and just throw your hands up and say stop complaining and if you don't like it find another way. People have to stop letting the govt. bully them with scare tactics in order to get us to accept things that are wrong. The truth is we are no safer today than we were before 911. If someone wants to hurt us there are many ways they can do so. Have any of you that are so accpeting of the govts. so called safety measures ever asked how come they are only focused on planes and airport security and not other locations such as bus and train stations etc. or even cargo? Yes we were attacked using planes already but do you really think the people that want to hurt us are only focusing on planes?

Great post! And so true.
 
Actually complaining to the right people is the only way that anything is going to change. If we all just sit back and accept it they will know that they can get away with doing anything they like without a backlash. This is just a conditioning experiment to see how far they can push before people revolt. Before we know it the govt. will be controlling us in many many more ways. This is just the begining unless enough people finally revolt and stand up for their rights. Even when something is a privilege in this country we still have our constitutional rights, at least we are suppose to. They do not just disappear. Driving is also a privilage but the police can not search our car without just cause. Although more and more our constitutional rights are disappearing because of people like you that are too accepting and just throw your hands up and say stop complaining and if you don't like it find another way. People have to stop letting the govt. bully them with scare tactics in order to get us to accept things that are wrong. The truth is we are no safer today than we were before 911. If someone wants to hurt us there are many ways they can do so. Have any of you that are so accpeting of the govts. so called safety measures ever asked how come they are only focused on planes and airport security and not other locations such as bus and train stations etc. or even cargo? Yes we were attacked using planes already but do you really think the people that want to hurt us are only focusing on planes?

by this reasoning why do any thing? why have any security, why have any regulations? Heck if we really are just flying by the seat of our pants why not let every one just do their own thing? why have our soliders in the places they are if as you say "some one wants to hurt as they're going to find a way to do so"?

Let's get rid of seat belt laws and speed limits and drunk driving laws there just really security measures, I mean what the heck, people are still drinking and driving so what the heck.

And personally I'm more scared of the people running around accusing the TSA of being molesters and rapist and screaming we're turning into "socialist" then I am of the government.
 
by this reasoning why do any thing? why have any security, why have any regulations? Heck if we really are just flying by the seat of our pants why not let every one just do their own thing? why have our soliders in the places they are if as you say "some one wants to hurt as they're going to find a way to do so"?

Let's get rid of seat belt laws and speed limits and drunk driving laws there just really security measures, I mean what the heck, people are still drinking and driving so what the heck.

I don't feel that equating the act of asking questions and asserting rights with an all or nothing approach is really appropriate here. I don't think anyone is calling for anything remotely close to the abolishment of all laws, even though the idea keeps creeping in as a tactic to undermine a point of view.

I read Halbleib1's post as a reminder to ask for restraint when it seems appropriate, no more and no less. Obviously passionate but well said.
 
I don't feel that equating the act of asking questions and asserting rights with an all or nothing approach is really appropriate here. I don't think anyone is calling for anything remotely close to the abolishment of all laws, even though the idea keeps creeping in as a tactic to undermine a point of view.

I read Halbleib1's post as a reminder to ask for restraint when it seems appropriate, no more and no less. Obviously passionate but well said.

My bad. Maybe it was sentences like "the government will be controlling our lives in many ways" or "people finally revolt" (yep, that was definitely a call for restraint. LOL" or maybe it was the "people like you that are too accepting" that I misunderstood. :rolleyes1

I apologize. can't imagine how I could have misinterpted it.
 
My bad. Maybe it was sentences like "the government will be controlling our lives in many ways" or "people finally revolt" (yep, that was definitely a call for restraint. LOL" or maybe it was the "people like you that are too accepting" that I misunderstood. :rolleyes1

I apologize. can't imagine how I could have misinterpted it.

Strongly worded, yes, but a call for the end of laws, no.
The poster called on people to complain to 'the right people' which I understood meant to call on our representatives, that's working within the system, not outside of it and not against it.

Maybe the word revolt was a poor choice since it can mean so many things, it even made me flinch a bit, but I don't believe it was meant in the way you are taking it, not in context of the rest of the post.
 
It's about a whole lot more than wearing and changing gloves . . .

Mike German, the former FBI counterterrorism agent who joined the ACLU as a policy counsel, calls the behavior program as ill-considered as enhanced pat-downs and the full-body scanners.

He questioned whether the technology would have caught the Nigerian passenger accused of carrying plastic explosives and liquid accelerant to blow up a Detroit-bound plane last December.

"It's the worst kind of security," German said, "the kind that gives us a false sense of security."

The money for such blunt-instrument programs should be spent instead to track specific threats, German said. "Then those investigations will probably be more effective in getting to the people who would do harm long before they get to an airport."

Read more: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/colu...&mr=1&cid=8500281&pid=111395754#ixzz17RAw61T7
 
Strongly worded, yes, but a call for the end of laws, no.
The poster called on people to complain to 'the right people' which I understood meant to call on our representatives, that's working within the system, not outside of it and not against it.

Maybe the word revolt was a poor choice since it can mean so many things, it even made me flinch a bit, but I don't believe it was meant in the way you are taking it, not in context of the rest of the post.

Ok so we'll call it even. Just as you find my "end of all laws" a bit exaggerated, I find the "complete takeover by the government" a bit of an exaggeration.

I did read the NY senator Schumer is trying to alleviate some concerns about the misuse of the images from the scanners. can't remember where I saw it.
 

:thumbsup2 Heck skater, most people agree on what works (or at least what works better) the problem is getting a nation of 300 million "individuals" all screaming "violations of our constitutional rights" to go for it. That is an interesting article, I read it a week or so ago, and of course I've flown out of Tel Aviv twice, I laugh seriously on the floor every time I think about what would happen the first time an American in the US, underwent the questioning I routinely go through in Tel Aviv. It's all very polite and I never feel embarrased or any thing but sorry, I just can't imagine us going for it.
 
:thumbsup2 Heck skater, most people agree on what works (or at least what works better) the problem is getting a nation of 300 million "individuals" all screaming "violations of our constitutional rights" to go for it. That is an interesting article, I read it a week or so ago, and of course I've flown out of Tel Aviv twice, I laugh seriously on the floor every time I think about what would happen the first time an American in the US, underwent the questioning I routinely go through in Tel Aviv. It's all very polite and I never feel embarrased or any thing but sorry, I just can't imagine us going for it.


Are you saying the solution to this is not simple? :rotfl:
 
:thumbsup2 Heck skater, most people agree on what works (or at least what works better) the problem is getting a nation of 300 million "individuals" all screaming "violations of our constitutional rights" to go for it. That is an interesting article, I read it a week or so ago, and of course I've flown out of Tel Aviv twice, I laugh seriously on the floor every time I think about what would happen the first time an American in the US, underwent the questioning I routinely go through in Tel Aviv. It's all very polite and I never feel embarrased or any thing but sorry, I just can't imagine us going for it.

People in this country routinely take the "rights" we have for granted compared to most other countries. I hope none of the folks who have an issue with the current TSA procedures ever travel abroad - it will be a very eye opening event if they did. I've never felt safer than when I travel abroad compared to stateside. It's sad but I really think we (Americans) are politically correct to a fault and scream everytime we think someone even looks at us cross eyed.
 
People in this country routinely take the "rights" we have for granted compared to most other countries. I hope none of the folks who have an issue with the current TSA procedures ever travel abroad - it will be a very eye opening event if they did. I've never felt safer than when I travel abroad compared to stateside. It's sad but I really think we (Americans) are politically correct to a fault and scream everytime we think someone even looks at us cross eyed.

Actually, I have traveled overseas quite a bit. Used to do it for a living. I routinely made 4 or 5 trips overseas a months, and am well aware of the searches they do over there. However, as a foreigner in their country it never entered my mind to claim that my rights as an American citizen were being violated. I'm quite certain that would not have gone over too well. However, in this country, I do have the right to complain to those making the rules and try to have them changed. Thankfully, over the years, others have said their rights were being violated and policy has changed.

I do agree with you though about us being politically correct to a fault. Heaven forbid we start profiling. What a stink that would cause, so instead we will frisk little old ladies and 4 yos so we can appear to be fair to all.

ETA: I don't know. Maybe it is because we take them for granted that we are so willing to give them away in the name of security.
 
I do agree with you though about us being politically correct to a fault. Heaven forbid we start profiling. What a stink that would cause, so instead we will frisk little old ladies and 4 yos so we can appear to be fair to all.

ETA: I don't know. Maybe it is because we take them for granted that we are so willing to give them away in the name of security.

Yep, and once again you have the stalmate. you call it political correctness. I can tell your not a minority because when you get pullled over and have the tar beaten out of you for nothing more than "driving while black", it becomes more than political correctness. So yep, since I have about a gazillion % greater chance of being "profiled" along with about 150 years of history to back up my belief that all it will result in, is a whole lot of african americans and hispanics being racially profilied, So unfortunatley every one gets the same crazy treatment.
Sorry but those same TSA agents are being labelled perverts are going to be the ones supposedly fairly profiling. Please, don't make me laugh. Heck, last year some stupid white women in pa decided to make up a story about being carjack by 2 black men which made it open season for the "law abiding" cops in Pa/nj/De to pull over every african american male including my 2 sons. oh and mz sunshine was living la vida loca at the Grand floridian and this is 2010.

So of course you don't see the problem with it. It's only a problem when it starts effecting you.
 
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