Truth telling time. Can we really complain?

[eliza61]

So I was chatting with you guys on the thread about some proposed airline seats and it got me thinking.

We complain about airlines and the industry's practices but in reality, it is a price driven market. The airline has to make a profit to stay in business and with us (consumers) demanding the cheapest (often unrealistic) price available, can we complain when they make moves like this.

Now many have said they wouldn't use them but I was telling DVCgirl, I can't be so sure in my righteousness. I just booked a flight for France for a little over 800 bucks. ouch. would I stand on principle if I could get the fare for 199 in a crazy seat? Health issues aside. don't know?

Same with disney. Pretty much the general view is the food has nose dived, I'm in that group but as long as we get "free dining" we accept subpar offerings.

So Dissers, this is the moment of truth.....what holds more sway? Quality or bottom line and can we complain when we get what we ask for?

When is a bargain no longer a bargain?

Both is not a realistic answer because generally you can't get both.

 

[SaraJayne]

So I was chatting with you guys on the thread about some proposed airline seats and it got me thinking.

We complain about airlines and the industry's practices but in reality, it is a price driven market. The airline has to make a profit to stay in business and with us (consumers) demanding the cheapest (often unrealistic) price available, can we complain when they make moves like this.

Now many have said they wouldn't use them but I was telling DVCgirl, I can't be so sure in my righteousness. I just booked a flight for France for a little over 800 bucks. ouch. would I stand on principle if I could get the fare for 199 in a crazy seat? Health issues aside. don't know?

Same with disney. Pretty much the general view is the food has nose dived, I'm in that group but as long as we get "free dining" we accept subpar offerings.

So Dissers, this is the moment of truth.....what holds more sway? Quality or bottom line and can we complain when we get what we ask for?

When is a bargain no longer a bargain?

Both is not a realistic answer because generally you can't get both.

For me, it's quality.

Regarding the airline seats, I can NOT imagine sitting like that for a 7+ hour flight to Europe. It would be torture! I'd either suck it up and pay the $800 (like you did lol) or not go.

I've never been to WDW while on free dining, so that one I really can't comment on.

I know this seems like a tired argument, but IMO, it all goes back to the Walmart mentality. I've never been a Walmart shopper and never will be.

People continue to buy crap because it's cheap. I'm not one of them.

 

[Ava]

I know this seems like a tired argument, but IMO, it all goes back to the Walmart mentality. I've never been a Walmart shopper and never will be.

People continue to buy crap because it's cheap. I'm not one of them.

I agree with this.

The one thing I will always choose quality over price is food. I'd much rather pay more for higher quality food than buy a bunch of cheap junk. Other things I will sometimes buy something cheap if I don't need it to last - like a pair of shoes to match a bridesmaid's dress that I will never ever wear again - it's Payless all the way for that kind of stuff.

The only way I'd ever consider purchasing those new airline seats people are talking about is if I was traveling alone or with adults only, and it was a very short flight (2 hours or less). I'd never try to sit in them with a child or for a longer flight.

 

[princessbride6205]

We can try to complain, but personal travel makes up only 10% of an airlines customers. Business travelers are the vast majority of their business. I just don't think personal travelers are enough of a force to make airlines change their ways.
And on the end of the day, competition is key. There was a great piece in the paper last week (New York Times, I think) about how much the airlines were making per mile based on their average fares and certain routes. And the determining factor on ticket price was whether or not there were low-cost airlines that served the same route (Southwest, Jet Blue, etc).

 

[pandaroo]

As I said on that thread I would not go it my only option was that ticket.

I have also never done free dining. A Disney vacation is not about eating.

DH and I have always said we wished the plane that are 3 and 3 wide would have some areas that were 2 wide in the same width. We would book them and happily pay the price of three seats.

So I guess for us quality does matter but there is an upper bound for the cost of quality.

We also like a value but we do have a lower bound for what we will give up to save money. For us tent camping in Orlando in July would not be an option even it it was free.

 

[pandaroo]

For me, it's quality.

Regarding the airline seats, I can NOT imagine sitting like that for a 7+ hour flight to Europe. It would be torture! I'd either suck it up and pay the $800 (like you did lol) or not go.

I've never been to WDW while on free dining, so that one I really can't comment on.

I know this seems like a tired argument, but IMO, it all goes back to the Walmart mentality. I've never been a Walmart shopper and never will be.

People continue to buy crap because it's cheap. I'm not one of them.

I think the person who is getting a name brand product, such as Tide, at Walmart for less than you pay at your store is not getting crap but the same product at a better price. They are the better shopper and have more money to spend on that upscale item you both want.

 

[SaraJayne]

I think the person who is getting a name brand product, such as Tide, at Walmart for less than you pay at your store is not getting crap but the same product at a better price. They are the better shopper and have more money to spend on that upscale item you both want.

Just FYI ~ products that are made specifically for Walmart are not always the same. Many people don't know that.


And like a PP brought up, food is another one that I'm not willing to give up quality for budget.

I'm willing to pay for fresh, good quality food.

 

[dsny1mom]

It's really about perceived value. Some may feel the most value is gotten with the cheapest price. Others may find quality, longevity, ease of use, etc as a value with a higher price. For most people value is perceived differently for differnt products and services.

dsny1mom

 

[pandaroo]

Just FYI ~ products that are made specifically for Walmart are not always the same. Many people don't know that.


And like a PP brought up, food is another one that I'm not willing to give up quality for budget.

I'm willing to pay for fresh, good quality food.

I am not talking about store brands I am talking about name brands. Tide at Target and Tide at Walmart are the same product. P&G would not allow their product to be cheapened to be sold at Walmart under their name.

You post was not about food alone but about all products Walmart sells. Campbell's soup is Campbell's soup no matter where you buy it.

 

[tink1969]

I am not talking about store brands I am talking about name brands. Tide at Target and Tide at Walmart are the same product. P&G would not allow their product to be cheapened to be sold at Walmart under their name.

You post was not about food alone but about all products Walmart sells. Campbell's soup is Campbell's soup no matter where you buy it.

Exactly what I was going to say.
It also has to do with the volume of purchasing of such name brands.
Walmart buys products in such enormous quantities that they are able to purchase at a better price point than that of their smaller competitors.

 

[SaraJayne]

I am not talking about store brands I am talking about name brands. Tide at Target and Tide at Walmart are the same product. P&G would not allow their product to be cheapened to be sold at Walmart under their name.

You post was not about food alone but about all products Walmart sells. Campbell's soup is Campbell's soup no matter where you buy it.

I am referring to brand names.

 

[pandaroo]

I am referring to brand names.

Show your proof.

 

[Darcy03231]

I'm a firm beleiver in you get what you pay for. I have no issue with shopping around to get the best price for what I want, but I've found overall I'd rather pay a bit more and have better quality/service. I don't typically shop the big box stores, but more the smaller local places.

Actually, today I'm wearing a suit I bought and had tailored a local independent store (that's now out of business) about 10 years ago. I paid $300 for it and it still looks like new (classic design). It's outlasted many a less expensive suit. I still miss that local store.

 

[SaraJayne]

Show your proof.

You can do the research just like I have and come up with your own conclusion.

I have family that works in businesses that unfortunately work with and have products in Walmart stores.

 

[SaraJayne]

I'm a firm beleiver in you get what you pay for. I have no issue with shopping around to get the best price for what I want, but I've found overall I'd rather pay a bit more and have better quality/service. I don't typically shop the big box stores, but more the smaller local places.

Actually, today I'm wearing a suit I bought and had tailored a local independent store (that's now out of business) about 10 years ago. I paid $300 for it and it still looks like new (classic design). It's outlasted many a less expensive suit. I still miss that local store.

I am also a believer in you get what you pay for.

 

[pandaroo]

You can do the research just like I have and come up with your own conclusion.

I have family that works in businesses that unfortunately work with and have products in Walmart stores.

I figured you had no proof.

I know a company that supplied to Walmart and Walmart made them step up their procedures to make the product more consistent and to a higher standard. This it the opposite of what you "claim".

 

[SaraJayne]

I figured you had no proof.

I know a company that supplied to Walmart and Walmart made them step up their procedures to make the product more consistent and to a higher standard. This it the opposite of what you "claim".

Like I said, you can do the research yourself and come up with your own conclusion. If you're fine with sending thousands of jobs overseas and supporting the world's largest importer of Chinese crap, that's fine. I'm not, so I choose not to support Walmart or their policies.

Sorry OP, for the hi-jack. I'll bow out now, to keep the thread from going further off topic.

 

[bettymae1121]

As a travel agent that books mostly airline tickets for business travelers, I can tell you that airfares are the same or lower now than they were when I started in '97. Yet expenses for the airlines have gone up (fuel is double now what it was then, for example).

I think the fees for things like seats and bags are brillant! Those that don't want/need to check bags and don't really care about where they sit don't need to pay for it, those that do care or do have a need can pay for it. I deal with business travelers and what seems to be happening is that businesses will pay for their employee's bags but not for seats (unless the only way to get a seat is to pay, then they'll pony up, but only for the cheapest seat).

As for general purchases for myself, I tend to look for quality. In most cases I'd rather spend a bit more for better quality or simply to get exactly what I want rather than save money and not be happy with it, or have it fall apart in six months. Food especially. I spend $125 a week for food just for DH and I, that's for local, fresh, mainly organic foods. I'd rather spend that than save $25 a week and buy processed franken-foods loaded with preservatives and/or pesticides. My rule is that if a 3rd grader can't pronounce what's listed on the food panel, I don't want to eat it. It's just what feels right for my family. I'll save money in other areas, like having a pre-paid cell and using NetFlix rather than going out to the movies twice a month.

 

[pandaroo]

Like I said, you can do the research yourself and come up with your own conclusion. If you're fine with sending thousands of jobs overseas and supporting the world's largest importer of Chinese crap, that's fine. I'm not, so I choose not to support Walmart or their policies.

Sorry OP, for the hi-jack. I'll bow out now, to keep the thread from going further off topic.

Buying Campbell's soup at Walmart, Target or Macy's (if they sold it) does not send any jobs overseas or keep them here. Campbell's makes that decision. You really need to learn how to do research.

 

[eliza61]

Like I said, you can do the research yourself and come up with your own conclusion. If you're fine with sending thousands of jobs overseas and supporting the world's largest importer of Chinese crap, that's fine. I'm not, so I choose not to support Walmart or their policies.

Sorry OP, for the hi-jack. I'll bow out now, to keep the thread from going further off topic.

Buying Campbell's soup at Walmart, Target or Macy's (if they sold it) does not send any jobs overseas or keep them here. Campbell's makes that decision. You really need to learn how to do research.

No worries guys because actually each of you are a little bit right. Walmart by their own admissions has pricing guidelines that many manufacturers cannot meet. so many manufacturers will and have shipped jobs to lower cost facilities in order to comply which is pretty much why we make hardly any thing here in the states. Our textile industry is pretty much dead. Unfortunately this is a bigger issue than just walmart. The documentary Walmart: the high cost of low prices explores that issue. I worked for Walmart as seasonal help so many of the companies policies toward it's workers are now becoming under fire.

Pandaroo, you are also a bit right in that campbells can afford to place their products at cost for various reasons.

Be that as it may, I think airlines did themselves a huge disfavor when they continued to keep prices artifically low. Now they are in that awful situation of being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Consumers are so used ot getting a bargain that it could be suicide to raise prices but it's also suicide when you can't cover operational cost and sooner or later you run out of 'extras" to cut.