*Truck and Towing thread........ask your questions here.*

Discussion in 'Camping at Disney World' started by PaHunter, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. tiggerdad

    tiggerdad I don't always get distracted but whe...SQUIRREL!

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    I used the airbags on mine, Firestone instead of strengthening up the springs. The helper springs would be cheaper route I'm sure, but the airbags are rated at 5000# but the cost was around $300 plus labor.
     
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  2. PaHunter

    PaHunter Photographer in need of training...

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  4. PaHunter

    PaHunter Photographer in need of training...

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  5. Sjm9911

    Sjm9911 Mouseketeer

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  6. tiggerdad

    tiggerdad I don't always get distracted but whe...SQUIRREL!

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  7. mickeyfan0805

    mickeyfan0805 DIS Veteran

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    That's fascinating, I'm actually a little surprised to see a manufacturer going there. While I'd personally love to see it on a lot of trailers (not just haulers), a broad spectrum roll-out of this type of tech would draw attention to how tight some of these trailer really are on weights. My sense has always been that the last thing most manufacturers want is for people to understand weights and capacities. I know this is only half the equation, but a broader understanding of weights would have a notable impact on the industry, and not necessarily one that would be good for their bottom line!
     
  8. Teamubr

    Teamubr Formerly racing around the country.

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    I think it's the dealers that don't want people to understand the weight dynamics. I suspect you are right though. This will probably appear on the toy haulers and other trailers that have a pretty big CCC. Anything that is tight on limits out of the factory will probably never see this.

    j
     
  9. PaHunter

    PaHunter Photographer in need of training...

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    I think the manufacturers realize how many people are towing outside their limits. Being that the industry is pretty much left to self regulation, it may be a necessary evil. As insurance hits go up, from people having trailers overturn, or being involved in accidents, the spotlight grows.
    I think the industries would rather people be towing safely to avoid government regulation that would really impact the industry and their bottom line. What if RV's were no longer exempt from a CDL type inspection. People would not be happy at all. I think this will make it's way to almost all trailers, it will clear the manufacturers of any liability if you knowingly overload your camper......
    There was a trailer last year that had a 333 pound cargo capacity, was a really bad design.
     
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  10. mickeyfan0805

    mickeyfan0805 DIS Veteran

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    Interesting theory - you may be right. I tend to have a bit more of a jaded view, thinking that corporations tend to bury their head in the sand as long as possible, but you may be right that this could serve as a 'due diligence' defense against future litigation. I'd love to have this on every trailer I buy in the future, and would love to see it on all of them (just to try to be a barrier against the many who so drastically overload with no understanding), but we will see.

    I have cited such trailers many times in the 'buy a trailer that has a GVWR that fits your truck and you're all good' arguments. I'm amazed at the trailers that roll off the lot with barely enough capacity to manage a tank of water, much less anything else. And, sadly, it is often those very trailers that have 6 bikes, 2 kayaks, and the family den strapped to the roof as it heads down the road!
     
  11. Sjm9911

    Sjm9911 Mouseketeer

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    Lol, thats why i got a pop up. I might be upgrading after this year......
     
  12. sirenia88

    sirenia88 You are a Toy car!

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    You can thank the 1/2 towable concept from the past 15 or so years. Also you have to factor in the dealers themselves. When the family and I were looking for our first trailer back in 2011, the sales rep was pretty much like your truck has plenty of power to move this trailer mentality. We had a 1999 F150 XLT Super Cab short bed with a 5.4 V8. There was no discussion beyond that regarding payload rating. As I found out I had no clue about payload even though it's right in the owner manual for the vehicle. Any vehicle for that matter. My real payload on that run was just 900 pounds with w/6500# GVW There was no let's hold up here and let's make sure you are going to be able to properly tow with the vehicle. He just said let's go look in the lot and see what I have out there for you folks. Of course we picked out this behemoth 30 footer at 6,000 pounds wet in the end. We got cornered into paying full sticker on the trailer and of course an extended warranty that might have been used for toilet paper. Our trailer didn't have a high load carrying capacity either. Once filled with water, it barely had enough weight for the other items like kitchen items, the outdoor stuff like the BBQ, and the like. I can tell you there were a number of times we were overloaded by at least 500 pounds especially on the disney trips in that trailer. It was really a valuable learning experience. Which we did make some really awesome memories in that first trailer though.

    Fast forward to 2018, the wife and I are thinking about replacing the trailer. Going on our first experiences, we had a much different perspective into the buying process. Based on the original F150, I knew after the first trip to Disney with the camper, a Super Duty or much newer late model F150 would have been a better choice of tow vehicle. Back then in 2012/13, my wife and I knew we would eventually get into a bigger truck and that would lead into a bigger trailer. We had a 250 which was perfect for that trailer. Never had a problem towing that or anything else for that matter. We had plenty of payload on the truck with that trailer as well. At the beginning of 2018, my 250 was involved in an accident. Which sucked as the truck was paid off as well as the trailer. When it came to getting another vehicle I always said I had to do it again, it would be a 350 just for the ratings. The 250 would have moved my current trailer perfectly without a doubt. However when it came the weights, would have been very close or over! The 350 was just a better horse for the next cart.

    Come July 2018, the wife was doing something in the trailer and something went a rye. I was outside fixing yet another thing on the trailer. So I went in to what the matter was. The wife got annoyed putting something away and then she asked if I had noticed the bathroom getting worse. I said I did and that's why I have been using the bathrooms at the campground more often. The trailer became more of the emergency bathroom. Plus it was getting tight overall in the trailer. At this point I made the suggest of looking for another trailer. We had gone to RV shows a number of times in the past. Nothing hit our tastes for a new unit. However, we knew we had plenty of truck for whatever we were going to buy. My only real requests were to keep it under 10K and around 35 feet. Also have proper weight capacity which this one does.

    My wife and I headed to a dealership that had a particular brand of trailers we were looking at. Grand Design RV was one of the brands we were interested in. The dealership had plenty of selection to choose from. My wife did request a quick on line visit first before driving out there for the day to make sure they would have something to look at. We got to the dealership and met up with a sales rep. The first thing he did was sit down with us at a table. He asked us if just basic stuff like if we are current owners and how long. How did you find out about us. Why are looking at this particular brand. Do we have the PROPER tow vehicle for what we might looking at today. He said if we were not sure of our ratings we would help to determine them if needed. I did chime in I had a 350 and I had done my research prior to looking at trailers. I gave him what my best estimate of what real payload was. My current truck sits at 3900# before me and everything else in it. He asked if we were open to other configurations like a 5 er. I said we bought a truck that could handle a 5er if we found one that matched our needs. Our sales rep came out and said, I want to make sure your future purchase is going to keep within the capacities of the truck. We do not want to sell you something too big or too heavy. Different approach from the last go around.

    The sales rep then asked harder questions like what are well looking for in a trailer. He brought out the literature of the models would be looking at. Offered us a pen and paper if we needed to make notes. Simply put, it was a much different buying experience. Of course trade in questions and financing were part of the experience. We told him we were looking at this point. We told him up front, it was a tire kicking event. We were figuring to buy within the next 6 months. We wanted to have a better more in detailed experience with the trailers than what you would get at a show. He said that would not be a problem as they have buyers that do come back later in the year to make the sale. He did not push for a sale that day. It was not like it was a problem we were just going to look at the trailers. He made assurances that he knew the product well and if he didn't know the answers he would get them for us. Which was a nice change. What my wife and I did not expect was to find our next trailer so quickly. My wife and I are fortunate in the fact we were able to make a purchase on such short notice. Remember the original plan was get through the current season. However the approach was so low pressure and smooth, we felt comfortable. There was no pushiness or lack of interest since we had a plan in mind. When it came time to working up the numbers, everyone won.

    Sorry for the slight tangent to the whole point to this reply. We had 2 different dealership experiences. One was who cares. As long as I get a sale, so what your vehicle isn't really rated for a particular model. This dealership actually offered GD RVs but we decided not to return to them due to our experience. My wife and I didn't care for the experience we received either. The last experience was excellent in my book. The little touches and lack of pushiness is what helped making a deal happen. The most important point was the fact in my eyes, the sales rep took the time to talk about the truck. There wasn't a battle of the brands/engines/ cab size. It was "hey I want to make sure you are going to have the proper truck to for the trailer you want." If you do not have the proper truck, are you willing to adjust your expectations or look at other models or brands? The sales rep attitude was we just want you to have a safe RVing experience.

    Oh what is this 1/2 ton talk all about. Well I know a couple of people with 9K bumper pull toy haulers towing them with 150 or 1500 depending on the brand. My current trailer is 9500 being towed by a 350. My weights are well south on all fronts. CGWVR, drive and steering axles. The last weight check my drive axle weight was off due to a loaded pickup bed. Guess what? It was still under. Quite a few of the trailer accident videos I have seen all seem to have the common the trailer is too big for the vehicle theme to it. Many times it's a 1/2 ton or large SUV unable to manage the trailer when something go a rye. To be honest the dealer is probably more complicit than the manufacturer in some cases. I have seen at a few shows not just local but national/ regional have flyers on the trailer showing it could be towed by this vehicle or that platform. I look at it saying it technically can but should it? At first I thought i was a good idea but now I think otherwise. I could see a family vacation ruined by " The flyer said I had the right vehicle for this" Now were are in a ditch since my driving experience with trailers was limited, or the vehicle was not enough to handle the trailer properly. Unless you are PA hunter. Then all bets are off LOL

    Thor has a interesting idea there with this device to help the RV owner. I could see it being used as a device to head off future or potential issues with load balancing and the like. In a world that is more and more litigation, you have to wonder. I wonder if there is some scales being brought out after some of these trailer accidents. I wonder if more states are going to want to push for CDL exempt licensing for RV owners with weights over a certain number. Maybe there should be a great push into the dealer networks to get a handle on this before we see more government involved. RVing should be fun not having to deal with E logs and weight stations or worse.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 9:42 PM
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  13. Sjm9911

    Sjm9911 Mouseketeer

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    I hate to say, some dealerships just sell to anyone. And that seams to be the norm( or at least the people that put it up on blogs) . Im glad you found a reputable dealer. As i only have a pop up, im on a pop up fourm. So many come on the sight that got sold stuff they cant tow. And the owners are pretty much oblivious, as it has a tow hitch, i can tow it. And no one gets how to load a trailer, or how it can impact the weights, sway, towing etc. So it may be about accedents, but i think its more about the lawsuits resulting from not so reputable sellers. Lets not get started about breaks and chains.........
     
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  14. 2goofycampers

    2goofycampers Sounds like something a camping trip could cure! Moderator

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    I think it's the responsibility of the buyer to know what their tow vehicle can tow safely. We don't trust our safety to any business or sales person.
     
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  15. Teamubr

    Teamubr Formerly racing around the country.

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    Sirenia88,

    It sounds like you found the ideal dealer the 2nd time around. You should share the name of the dealership. Many of us will go outside our local area to work with a "great" dealer.

    I have towed "things" (campers- TT, 5ers; utility trailers; boats; racecar trailers) all over the country for decades. Sometimes I was very near (or likely over) max weights as well as way below 50% of capacity. Like cars, driving something at 5/10ths is considerably different from 10/10ths (which most people rarely ever hit intentionally). Everything responds differently as you approach limits. If you don't know how they will respond, you are more likely to not react appropriately and suddenly you are at 12/10ths. I think this is more of a contributing factor to many RV crashes. Too fast for conditions, following too close, too aggressive of steering input and then being surprised the "rig" doesn't respond the same as your Camry.

    Overloading is certainly a contributor, but failure to recognize how something will behave is a bigger factor.

    j
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 6:21 PM
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  16. tiggerdad

    tiggerdad I don't always get distracted but whe...SQUIRREL!

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    This
     
  17. PaHunter

    PaHunter Photographer in need of training...

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    One would like to think it was the responsibility of the buyer, but I know of a FB group that would make you shake your head.
     
  18. 2goofycampers

    2goofycampers Sounds like something a camping trip could cure! Moderator

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    FB? If we want to know anything we will ask you guys!!!
     
  19. sirenia88

    sirenia88 You are a Toy car!

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    Coming from experience this is very true. You will see at shows as well. You have Brand X it will handle it without a problem.


    I will disagree with you to a point. This is a two way street. The buyer should be knowledgeable of the product, the vehicle, and characteristics of towing. But the dealership should take some of the responsibility in making sure the customer is properly equipped. Slapping the hood of the vehicle and saying this beast is ready for towing is not it. Not everyone is going to know anything about RVing especially new people entering the market. A friend of mine bought a Class C Toy Hauler from Lazy Days Tampa FL. She got a driving course with the camper as part of her prep and delivery package. She and her companion loved it and thought is great. He tows a Outback Toy hauler which they are now leaving a camp site while they take the MH around the East Coast.


    Tom Schaeffer RV out of Shoemakersville, PA. Some people didn't like the place others like me did. A number of people on a Ford Truck forum from the PA/ NJ area use them for RV purchases. When researching our trailer purchase, the campground we regularly stay at had a number of GD owners most of them purchasing from Tom's RV. All had extremely positive responses. One fellow I spoke with purchased 2 trailers from them and would not hesitate to recommend them. I had some service work done by them on an early on issue we had with the trailer. They got it fixed while we waited and even accommodated our pup with water and treats!

    As for towing, we have a 12 foot single axle for work. That has definitely an interesting towing characteristic. My current trailer definitely feels different than my previous trailer. I find the new one easier to tow even though it's larger and heavier. Go figure.
     
  20. tiggerdad

    tiggerdad I don't always get distracted but whe...SQUIRREL!

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    Anything FB makes me shake my head
     
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  21. Teamubr

    Teamubr Formerly racing around the country.

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    I'll have to bookmark them. PA is close enough if it is the right rig. It sounds like they have discovered that exceptional customer service goes farther than closing the deal at any cost.

    We looked at Grand Design before buying our current trailer 3 years ago. I really liked the build quality. Unfortunately I was looking for something a little more than the Reflections, but not quite as much as the Solitude. I really liked the Solitude, but couldn't justify the price. If I was going full time, I'd strongly consider it though.

    j
     
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