Troubles at Disneyland....

[roymccoy]

I have one question....What happened to Disneyland??? I haven't been to the old girl in awhile but when me and the family went yesterday, we were SHOCKED. There are so many rides and attractions that are either closed or that are "just not there" anymore. We walked through Tomorrowland and couldn't believe how they ruined it. It looks like a closed up carnival. No Rocket Rods. No People Mover. No Circlevision. No Submarines. No Character Shop.
And what IS there is nothing to write home about...what is Innoventions?? Looks like a cheap space filler to me. What's that annoying "thing" that spins in the middle and plays music every now and then? Has anyone else noticed that it's made on the exact mechanism that was the Rocket Jets? Even goes up and down randomly like the individual cars did. Talk about cheap. Do these imagineers shop at garage sales?? I bet they use those "telephone cable spools" for coffee tables
in their houses. Why didn't they just leave Tomorrowland alone?? They took what I consider the best land in the park and absolutely gutted it. You think $43 is too much for California Adventure?? Explain to me why it's not too much for Disneyland? Where is Country Bear Jamboree? Where is Big Thunder Ranch? Where are the Keel Boats? Why is the restaurant accross from the Plaza Inn still empty? Where is the Skyway? As far as I can tell, only ONE ride has been added to all of this butchery...Indiana Jones. Big Deal...one ride. (You can't count putting cardboard cut-outs and lights in an old ride). Why are they selling hot dogs where you used to ride the Motorboats? Is that supposed to be a good trade-off?

Why are they still charging (and we are still paying) $43 for far less stuff? Disneyland looks like a ghost town. There are big areas with just nothing in them. The Subs, The Ranch, Tomorrowland, The Motorboat grotto, old Autopia, etc. Let's face it, Disneyland is a shell of it's past glory. If any executives want to know why attendance is down, go look around. There was MUCH more to do at Disneyland 10 years ago then there is now. I'm afraid they may be on a slippery slope. They don't seem to know what's wrong. They can't see that there is simply not enough to do there anymore. The "magic thing" only can go so far. People will cut Disney a little slack because of all the good memories they have about the place, but they won't keep coming and paying for "Disney-Lite" forever. I love Disneyland and it hurts me to see it gutted like that. I heard people saying "Is that all there is to do?" and "I remember that there was more somewhere." Yes, there is more somewhere...it's in storage on the backlot or on E-bay.

Roy :-(

 

[Douglas Dubh]

"You think $43 is too much for California Adventure?? Explain to me why it's not too much for Disneyland?"

Disneyland has more rides and attractions than any other Disney park. While they are down a few rides from there peak, there are still more attractions than you can do in one day.

"There are big areas with just nothing in them. The Subs, The Ranch, Tomorrowland, The Motorboat grotto, old Autopia, etc. Let's face it, Disneyland is a shell of it's past glory."

You've got a point about most of that, but why is Autopia in there? Having one long Autopia is better than having two short ones, and the Fantasyland side was almost never opened.

"There was MUCH more to do at Disneyland 10 years ago then there is now."

No there isn't. New Tomorrowland was a bust, and they're down attractions from 1995, but they're definitely up from 1991.

 

[WDW2002]

From your post, it is obvious that you hadn't been to Disneyland in quite a long time. The Motor Boats have been gone for years, I have to say mid 80's. Autopia, is not gone, they combined the two tracks into one. The Country Bears just closed early last month, to a big disapointment for alot of us. The Subs, well dispite all the rumors I think this one was closed due in part to the new "disabilities act." The same for the skyway.

Yes, Disneyland has closed some attractions and YES tomorrow land is a waste of space and needs a major overhall. But even so, most of us would agree that Disneyland is still the best bet for a "family" Theme/Amusement Park.

 

[DVC95-BW]

Rocket Rods replace the People Mover... I'm not sure if it is shut down permanently, but I do know that each time I've been to Disneyland it has been broken down more than open. I think Rocket Rods is one of those Test Track unreliable rides (but Test Track was worth fixing).

Tomorrowland has always been a challenge for Disney... and for me, it is the most "concrete" (at all the parks globally) and the least magical.

 

[WDW2002]

The Rocket Rods are indeed part of yesterdayland. I was hoping they would fix the problem and reintroduce them this past spring, as was originally planned but as spring turned into summer Disney pulled the Rods.

 

[raidermatt]

Roy- I think they had to reduce the number of visitors in Tomorrowland because of complaints about a lack of drinking fountains in the area...



Seriously though, you make some good points. Tomorrowland is very weak right now. I like it better when MK and DL don't just copy each others rides, but at this point, Buzz Lightyear and the Alien Encounter would help a lot. Carsousel of Progress would also help. But even better would be a few original rides...

As others have said, the new Autopia is at least as good as the old.

Innoventions IS awful.

We were there about a week before the bears closed, and I also am not happy about it. But the plan is to replace it with a dark Pooh ride (I think like MK), so the number of attractions eventually will be the same.

I think the other areas of the park are holding up well though...

We had plenty to do for over 2 days, but then again it was Summer and we enjoy pretty much every attraction. Except Innoventions. Did I mention it was awful?

 

[SophisMom]

OK I just posted above about the same thing in an above post...maybe because I am a local....I was just a bit dissapointed as well. But my daughter had fun so that is what counts. Oh and the park closed at 8pm..WAY to early! But they were kind enough to leave Main Street open an extra hour so we could spend the REST of our money!

 

[roymccoy]

That was funny about the drinking fountains....

Roy

 

[roymccoy]

Could you please enlighten me on how there are MORE rides now then in 1991?? Name one NEW ride. (Not including Indiana Jones).
All I see is less for your money now. Tomorrowland used to be THE place in Disneyland. Journey into Innerspace, Mission to Mars, America Sings, Rocket Jets, Circlevision, PeopleMover, Skyway, Space Place Food Court, Character Shop with those "neat phones",
the band that came up in the stage, the Submarines. Wow....just thinking about it makes me really sad. What's left? Innoventions and Star Tours. I hate to play a broken record but you want to know who I think is responsible for the decline? Paul Pressler.
Here's a list of Presslers babies:
Toon Town - First "new land" in 20 years. Mostly cardboard cut-outs and painted plywood.
Light Magic - Replacement for Electrical Parade. Terrible.
Tomorrowland "make-over" - nuff said.
California Adventure - nuff said.

This guy is a L O S E R. Put my 2 year old daughter in charge and she would understand the "magic" better. Put a well-trained chimp in charge and we could boost attendance!! You can go right on and tell me how everything is just "hunkie-dorry" but I'm afraid it might be too late. Disney is like the Government. Once they take something away, you can bet you'll never get it back!

Hope I'm wrong. Bet I'm not.

Roy :-(

P.S. The monkey wouldn't have to be that well-trained.

 

[princessKT]

Things have changed, but they can also get better. I don't think we should be calling the people in charge names because they've had a lack of creativity; not everyone is Walt Disney. There are things on the way that will make it fantastic again. I still love Disneyland despite the changes, and I think everyone on this board can say the same thing -- that's why we're here.

 

[greyno]

Wow! I guess I never thought I'd read so much DL bashing on this particular part of the DIS boards. I, for one, am a loyal DL fan and I love that park more than any of the others. Funny thing about the Rocket Rods. People complained about and essentially stopped riding the People Mover so Disney attempts to use the space with a new ride. I am no Imagineer, but I don't see that they had oodles of options when it came time to decide how to best use the ol' People Mover track. So, they design the Rocket Rods to use that space, and guess what? People still complained. Don't get me wrong--the ride was no Indiana Jones or Space Mountain. But not every ride is. There were also structural/engineering problems which added to the Rocket Rods short-lived life in Tomorrowland. Okay, so Disney gets a slap on the hands for poor planning and they take a huge loss for spending the money on a big loser.
As for the Skyway--it doesn't exist at WDW either. And Innoventions? It sucks big time at WDW, too.
They probably haven't opened tons of new rides at DL lately because of the recent addition of DCA. I agree that DCA is not DL, but it is alright if you take it for what it is. If you are expecting it to be DL, of course you will be disappointed! But there are some decent attractions and fun rides there, too.
I guess I am a loyal DL fan so I do take offense at the DL bashing. It seems people on here rave about WDW and bash DL every chance they get. I'm sorry, but I don't see WDW adding new rides left and right as you seem to expect them to do at DL.
I guess the last part of my rant is that the park is what you make of it. If you don't find magic there, fine. Go to Magic Mountain. Go to your local amusement park. Go to Knott's Berry Farm. See how much magic you find there. Perhaps for your money, these types of places give you the most bang for your buck. Great. Spend your money there and leave DL to those of us who DO appreciate it (in good times & in bad times, in sickness & in health).
(Didn't mean for this to be a personal attack and hope you didn't take it that way. Just my meager attempt to defend the DL that I love.)

 

[roymccoy]

I have no problem with defending Disneyland. I grew up there. I feel I defend Disneyland by pointing out the fact that the trend in the last 10 years has been to remove rides and not add new ones. I am merely pointing out the FACT that Tomorrowland used to be great and now it isn't. I am merely pointing out that, although we are Disney loyalists and we would probably go no matter what, I am hearing from the "civillians" that they feel Disneyland has really slipped over the years. If we don't complain about it, nothing will be done about it. My dad used to always say "The squeaky wheel (or mouse) gets the most grease." I know that you can still go to Disneyland and have a good time. I'm just saying that there used to be MUCH more to do there and the trend seems to be to close rides and not to add new ones. I would love for someone to answer me one question: (This will be great for all you question "cut and pasters")

Why is Disney charging more money now for admission even though there is less to do?

When Disney opened Indiana Jones, I remember that ticket prices went up a couple of bucks. The new ride was given as the reason for the increase. They said with the addition of Indiana Jones they needed to raise prices to offset the construction and operating costs but, there was now a great new ride at Disneyland. I think that the increase was totally justified. I had no problem with it. What I DO have a problem with is that there are no price reductions when they take em' out! Doesn't that make sense? If they have to raise em' to put em' in, shouldn't they get to lower them if they take em' out? I'm not stupid and I know that they would NEVER lower prices, I'm just pointing out that they will take out as many rides as we will put up with. They will stop when they think it's hurting attendance more than it's saving on the closed rides. Why do you think that they are hurrying so many new rides into DCA? Is it because everything is running great and everyone loves the place? No complaints? Nope...it's because people complained and spoke up and didn't just walk in there with "Disney Magic" in their eyes and let them get away with it.

The management is going to really push the limits of "The Magic." They are going to push it right to the breaking point and when they feel that they have went overboard, they will do what they need to fix things. Well, they're going overboard at Disneyland.

Roy

 

[WDW2002]

Other then Tomorrowland (which I think we have ALL agreed is a waste of space and needs some major work) I don't see that Disneyland has a LOT less to do. I guess it all depends on what you go to Disneyland looking for.
You mentioned toontown. This is a great place if you have younger kids or want to meet the Fab 5. Growing up in the 70's - 80's I do not remember characters roaming around the park for me to meet. Story telling, Animazement, Sword in the Stone ceremony.
Rides generally close do to disrepair or lack of guests. Or in some cases to update or replace with a new ride. Disneyland has a limited space in which to expand with new rides. I think it is a give and take. They take away some rides and then they give you something else. Give them time.

 

[roymccoy]

that they've taken away some rides...but I've not seen a lot of "putting something in it's place."
If the space is so limited at Disneyland, why is there so much of it empty or abandoned. You might think that they have TOO MUCH space by looking around some sections of Disneyland lately.

I was concentrating on Tomorrowland but I can go on. What is being built over at the ranch area? Looks pretty abandoned to me. Used to be a farm, a restaurant, a petting zoo and a Hunchback show there...now there's nothing.....empty space.

How about Critter Country?? Ain't a whole lot of Critter's there now, would you say?

What about the area over where the Motorboats use to be? Looks like a whole lot of nothing now! It's a pretty big area for a hot dog stand.

Submarine Lagoon? Looks empty to me.

My point is that these areas were all part of your Disney admission at one time. And it didn't cost $43 when they were. People say that they add rides and they take away rides. Wrong. They take away rides. They haven't gotten around to the "add rides" part. That comes when we all complain enough!

Roy

 

[WDW2002]

What do you suggest ?? You seem to be good at pointing out the things that are now gone, but what about your suggestions for replacements??

The Subs are gone, I would love to see a new ride in there that would attract new riders, suggestions have been made to make it a Little Mermaid Ride (which would have been SUPER easy and inexpensiveish) & rumors were abound that they were making it is a Atlantis Ride (even before the movie).

The motor boat area, well I must admitt when we were there in '96 the first time since they removed them I didn't even realize they weren't there. It took a trip to Yesterdayland.com to realize that they weren't there anymore. I for one don't miss them but did enjoy them while they were there. I am not sure what to suggest to put there. The skyway, another one I don't personally miss, it was really a mode of transportation from Fantasyland to Tomrorwland, one that could be walked faster. We don't have these anymore but since its removal we do have animazement and characters in the parks. (this is what I meant by give and take).

The space that is now used for "partys" that was once a The Ranch and Huntback Festival Area could deffiently be used for something. This area could be used to add attraction(s) to either fantasyland or Frontierland. My suggestion would be to be the Pooh ride here and give us back the bears, an updated version or the original.

Okay now the thing in Disneyland that needs some MAJOR work is Tomorrowland. My suggestions for this. Update Star Tours. Find a way to fix the Rocket Rods. Remove the Arcade (the top floor is empty anyway) and put something in there maybe something simular to 'Soarin (at DCA). Space Mountain, would be better if they fixed it so the music worked ALL the time not just occasionally. Like someone else suggested, even bringing in Buzz Lightyear or something would be an improvement.

But remember "just as long as there is imagination left in the world, Disneyland will never be complete."




America Sings was (eventually) replaced by Innovention and the "guts" went to Splash Mountain (a new ride). I will agree with some that this is a waste but if you are into this type of this Virtual Reality and Techno Stuff, you might think this is a great area.

 

[roymccoy]

You have some good ideas. I would love to see them all. I guess what I am trying to say in a nutshell is that the management that controls Disney now will lower the bar as low as they can and still get away with it. People called them on DCA and now they are having to scramble to fix it. If people wouldn't have complained with their voices and their money the management would have never added rides so quickly. Personally, I think that DCA's failure shocked the head office BECAUSE they were getting away with so much at Disneyland.

You asked me for what my ideas are to fix the problems, instead of just pointing out the problems. I guess I would just say this...Don't remove a ride or attraction UNTIL you have something better to put in it's place. Don't throw in a cheap ride just to get the ride count up. Don't think that all you have to do is "gussy-up" an old ride and expect that to be enough. Don't talk about how space is limited at Disneyland, so tough decisions must be made when there's more abandoned real estate in Disneyland than there is in downtown Kabul.

I think I made the point I was trying to make. I appreciate all of your points. I just feel a little "cheated" at Disneyland lately...

Roy

 

[Diva of Dragons]

Hi All!
I just wanted to say...first, I go to DL A LOT and I am almost always the first to jump its defense in most situations. However, I really have to agree with you, roymccoy, at the moment. I have been to DL 3 times in the last week (more than normal), basically to get a good look at the HM Holiday makeover....which I LOVE! BUT......as I walked around there, I thought..."Thank goodness I didn't pay a day's admission to come here this week!"
Seriously, The list of attractions that are down is ridiculous: Tea Cups, Alice, Bears (forever), Fantasmic (until June!!), the obviously huge lack of anything to do in Tomorrowland etc... PLUS, the stinkin' Matterhorn has been down for at least 2-3 weeks. It was down for at least 2-3 months at the beginning of the year! What's up with that? To top it off, they are doing other construction(?) in the park, especially in Adventureland and the walkway between it and Frontierland. Every time you turn around you run into one of those lovely "hospital green" barriers. ....Anyway, as a local, these things are minor inconveniences. As a tourist, I think I would be very disappointed. JMHO!

 

[roymccoy]

I didn't even go into the refurbishment that is going on right now. I think they've closed a little too much all at once. If this is your first trip or vacation to Disneyland, I think that I would wait until at least a few more rides are open. It's just not worth the $43 bucks right now. Those green barriers really narrow down the walkways and compact the crowds down to shoulder to shoulder. The knee jerk reaction to refurbishment is to say "at least they're fixing up the rides" but a friend of mine who works in the maintenance department said that they are closing rides that are only getting a little touch-up paint or electrical work...stuff they used to just do at night. He also said that they are closing things that aren't even being worked on yet, just waiting for a crew to get to it. (Kind of like a contractor starting 4 jobs and then working on one at a time.) I wonder how much of this is just to save the money of operating the ride.

Roy

 

[WDW2002]

"I guess I would just say this...Don't remove a ride or attraction UNTIL you have something better to put in it's place." - roymccoy

Think about it, though. How can they do that? They closed the bears much to my dismay and are (eventually) goin gto replace it with the Pooh Bear ride, like at WDW. How could they possibly put this ride in BEFORE they closed the Bears if they are going to use the same area/building to do so?? Along with this, I do agree, they should have kept the Bears open until they at least had the "guts" of the ride ready to put in. This way they would at least shorten the length of time before pooh opens, I believe not until Spring 2003?

As for them "scrambling" to put more rides/attractions in at DCA because we complained. I think that yes this is true but some of the changes they are putting in were to already happen, even before they DCA opened its doors. I believe the tower of terror ride was already on the agenda before DCA opened. I also believe Millionare was in the works.

I would agree 110% with Diva on the refurbs, why so many at once?? We rescheduled our trip in October because of all the refurbs (remember, they always list these on their site).

As for the construction in adventure land, I do believe they are putting in the magic carpet ride like they did earlier at WDW-MK.

How about this for a solution, Disneyland closes completely for a few months every year (say October - Thanksgiving & then January - April) when the locals are the ones in the park and a lot of vacationers don't visit to do all the refurb and maintenence?? Close an entire land / area so you don't have to deal with the construction. You can't complain about the need for maintenence and then complain that things are closed fro them to do the maintenence. Or complain that they need to add rides and attractions and then complain about the construction.

 

[Uncle Buck]

The volume of rehabs in Fantasyland is due to the complete removal and replacement of the pavement in Fantasyland. While they are cutting off access to rides, they are doing full rehabs. I've seen pictures recently of the tea cups stripped all the way down to the turntable. The coming week is the transition from one section to the next. It will be interesting to see if any of the rides in that area reopen early. Next Saturday, Mr. Toad goes down as well as others in the area.