Trouble with AirTran... (Update on Pg # 4, Post # 52)

[manning]

A few years back we were 4 hours late getting to hawaii from Chicago. American misplaced the co-pilot and had to find another one. Ended up with two captains. The co-pilot was coming from Dallas and for some reason got diverted to another location. It took 2 hours to find a replacement. Because the plane was full and had a full load of fuel we had to use the longest runway. Well It happened to be the active runway for landings. We ended up sitting at the end of it for 2 hours with the engines idling waiting for clearance. They wouldn't let us out of our seats because when they got clearance they had to hurry up and take off.

The other part of this was the SIL was going on a FAM trip and decided not to go with the group on Delta via Atlanta. She was mad that we were four hours late until we checked into the hotel and discovered they hadn't checked in yet. They were 8 hours late.

 

[rparmfamily]

One of your best "weapons" as a consumer in these situations (non-weather related) is to become very familiar with "Rule 240":



Here's your secret weapon for fighting airline delays, cancellations, and missed connections:

Rule 240.

Before airline deregulation in 1978, Rule 240 was literally a federal requirement. Nowadays, it's a term describing what individual airlines will do for late or stranded passengers. In fact, the major airlines have filed "conditions of carriage" with the U.S. Department of Transporatation (DOT) guaranteeing their respective Rule 240s.

If your flight is delayed or cancelled, or if you've missed your flight connection, these policies may give you free meal vouchers, hotel accommodations, phone calls, and other amenities. You may be booked on a substitute flight -- even on another airline -- and you may be compensated or given a full refund if the flight problems persist.

The biggest mistake people make when dealing with delays are claiming "Rule 240" because they are misinformed!!!! Airlines also have their own version of the 240 rule by setting up their own conditions of carriage. Airtran has one so if you frequent this airline I would read it. I am sorry you were disappointed but they actually did you a favor by booking you a hotel room. As far as ramp space goes, it's a crap shoot. How many times have people on this board been reassigned a gate because of weather delays, airport congestion and so forth. Once again I am sorry you had a rough time and hope things go smoother next time.


Here are some things about 240.


Citing Rule 240 entitles you to better treatment by an airline. Not true. I've heard some of my colleagues tell air travelers that saying "240 me" at the ticket counter will tag them as an "insider" and entitle them to preferred treatment. But most gate agents just find that kind of behavior annoying.

Rule 240 is a "killer app" rule that applies to your entire air travel experience. Wrong. This isn't some obscure statute that, if discovered, forces an airline to behave. It's a very specific rule that applies only to flight delays and cancellations. That's all.

Most Rule 240s - each airline's rule is slightly different - allow for the following:

If your flight is delayed by more than two hours, you're entitled to a free three-minute phone call in the continental U.S.


If the delay is more than four hours, and it happens between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m., then you can get a voucher for a hotel room. Also included: free ground transportation to the hotel.


Rule 240 also entitles you to meal vouchers if you're delayed by more than a few hours on some airlines. But check the fine print. It's often only the first-class passengers that get free food.

 

[FanofTink]

Of course a traveller should be informed as to an individual airlines Rule 240, it's a good idea to look up your airlines specifications, print it and take it with you and use it if you are given no other recourse.

 

[*Wish*Upon*A*Star*]

The biggest mistake people make when dealing with delays are claiming "Rule 240" because they are misinformed!!!! Airlines also have their own version of the 240 rule by setting up their own conditions of carriage. Airtran has one so if you frequent this airline I would read it. I am sorry you were disappointed but they actually did you a favor by booking you a hotel room. As far as ramp space goes, it's a crap shoot. How many times have people on this board been reassigned a gate because of weather delays, airport congestion and so forth. Once again I am sorry you had a rough time and hope things go smoother next time.


Here are some things about 240.


Citing Rule 240 entitles you to better treatment by an airline. Not true. I've heard some of my colleagues tell air travelers that saying "240 me" at the ticket counter will tag them as an "insider" and entitle them to preferred treatment. But most gate agents just find that kind of behavior annoying.

Rule 240 is a "killer app" rule that applies to your entire air travel experience. Wrong. This isn't some obscure statute that, if discovered, forces an airline to behave. It's a very specific rule that applies only to flight delays and cancellations. That's all.

Most Rule 240s - each airline's rule is slightly different - allow for the following:

If your flight is delayed by more than two hours, you're entitled to a free three-minute phone call in the continental U.S.


If the delay is more than four hours, and it happens between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m., then you can get a voucher for a hotel room. Also included: free ground transportation to the hotel.


Rule 240 also entitles you to meal vouchers if you're delayed by more than a few hours on some airlines. But check the fine print. It's often only the first-class passengers that get free food.

Thanks for the info.

Actually, we WERE first class passengers. And we were delayed for over four hours (our flight was supposed to depart ATL at 9:05pm, we actually departed twelve hours later at 9:10am). According to you, we should have rec'd a voucher for a hotel room, which we did not.

I guess we'll just wait and see what kind of response I can get from AirTran.

Thanks again!

 

[rparmfamily]

Thanks for the info.

Actually, we WERE first class passengers. And we were delayed for over four hours (our flight was supposed to depart ATL at 9:05pm, we actually departed twelve hours later at 9:10am). According to you, we should have rec'd a voucher for a hotel room, which we did not.

I guess we'll just wait and see what kind of response I can get from AirTran.

Thanks again!

See this is where the rule is confusing. Your flight was due to leave at 9:05 however it got changed to the next morning. I could see airtran saying it wasn't within the time frame so there is nothing else we can do and that's why I think you got lucky with the room. I would have pressed the issue like you did. The other problem is that they have no contract with other carriers so they don't have to put you on a different flight to accomadate you. That's why I stick to the majors. Let us know how the letter turns out. Oh yeah in the contract of carriage for airtran it really does take away a lot of rights of the consumer and covers their butts a lot. Not a good way to do business IMHO.

Rex

 

[curiouser]

One of your best "weapons" as a consumer in these situations (non-weather related) is to become very familiar with "Rule 240":



Here's your secret weapon for fighting airline delays, cancellations, and missed connections:

Rule 240.

Before airline deregulation in 1978, Rule 240 was literally a federal requirement. Nowadays, it's a term describing what individual airlines will do for late or stranded passengers. In fact, the major airlines have filed "conditions of carriage" with the U.S. Department of Transporatation (DOT) guaranteeing their respective Rule 240s.

If your flight is delayed or cancelled, or if you've missed your flight connection, these policies may give you free meal vouchers, hotel accommodations, phone calls, and other amenities. You may be booked on a substitute flight -- even on another airline -- and you may be compensated or given a full refund if the flight problems persist.

I think the key word here is MAY.

And its important to know that some of the discount airlines do not have this rule. Southwest for example, which is why if you are stranded they cannot book you on another flight from an outside airline. They don't have a "Rule 240" standing with other carriers. You may want to read through AirTrans Contract of Carriage before sending this letter so you're educated and prepared for how to present your letter and what the response may be.

 

[pxlbarrel]

Good luck with trying to get some satisfaction...I've tried with United and I got nowhere.

I was flying from Nashville to Toronto by way of Chicago but when I got to the airport in Nashville, there was a huge long line at the ticket counter because they had cancelled anybody who was going into Chicago or Dulles for a connection. They told us we would miss our flights because of weather so they decided to cancel it so we wouldn't be stranded in those cities (hmmmm...and being stranded in Nashville is better???)

Anyway, we were all lined up to get our alternative travel plans. I had friends who were going back to Chicago via Dulles so we decided it was better if we travelled together. There were only 2 ticket agents working...TWO for how many cancelled flight??

While we waited, one of the alternative flights for Toronto took off without us. By the time we got to the counter, there was only one choice left...US Airways flight to Pittsburgh and then a flight to Toronto from there. So we ran to the gate with a stop to have a secondary security check since we had tickets that had been changed recently. As we were taking our shoes off and they were searching our luggage, we heard the last call for our flight to Pittsburgh. I ran to the gate first since I only had carryon and my friends had all their check-in luggage (more about THAT later). Imagine me running to the gate with my friends wailing from behind for me to "hold the plane"...yeah, right...I have the power to do that!

We managed to get onto the plane and we landed in Pittsburgh on time. We had 5 minutes to get to our flight which was leaving at a gate on the other side of the airport...so we ran and ran and ran ... right into an empty gate area. I remember thinking, "Uh oh...that doesn't look good". We found out that they had cancelled our flight because of mechanical problems. By now it was around 10 pm or so and two of us had to work the next day so being housed in a Pittsburgh hotel was not really an option for us. We asked that they get us to Buffalo and we'd find a way back from there. So they did but my friend's luggage wouldn't make it on the flight. We had 5 minutes to get to the plane...which was leaving at the other side of the airport (yes...next to the gate we had just RUN from.) So off we went again...running and running and running (me with a carry-on of clothes and camera equipment).

We got to Buffalo and discovered nobody would rent us a car to Toronto (something about a little detail about another country, y'know). So we hopped into a taxi and headed to Toronto. $190 later we were back on home soil and it was only 3 am. Argh. The taxi ride was actually quite pleasant...much more than the flights. The best part was when we were at the border and they asked us if we had anything to declare and one of my friends wailed (in a most pitifful way), "We can't...our luggage is still in Pittsburgggggggggggggggggh". That broke us all up. haahaha

United refused to compensate us for the taxi ride citing weather as the reason we were screwed around with...even though I checked to see when my connecting flight in Chicago left and discovered had they NOT cancelled my flight to Chicago, I would have made my connecting flight. Weather had delayed the Chicago-Toronto flight so I would have been able to connect. Sheeeesh

I first wrote a letter to them and they responded with a $50 voucher (good for 1 year). Well, I wasn't going anywhere so that $50 voucher on an airline I didn't want to fly on anymore was useless. So I called them this time and argued and argued and there was no budging...so finally I said, give me more vouchers. They balked at this until I finally said, "You're refusing to give me vouchers even though the likelikhood of me using your airline ever again is close to zero?" I guess when I put it that way, they agreed to send me the vouchers. $100 worth.

They expired before I could use it. Oh well...that's air travel these days. And remember...this WASN'T a discount airline and it certainly wasn't a discount air fare.

 

[westjones]

Wow! This makes me even more certain that I only want direct fligths! We do not fly often (1-2 times a year) and I always try to book direct flights because I hate landing and taking off and well, they are faster. I never thought about missing connecting flights and being left in an airport to figure out what to do until the next day with tired cranky kids.

Thanks for sharing your story. I will only book direct for now on!
DJ

 

[manning]

Non-stops are better than direct flights.

Non-stops fly from point A to point B. They take off once and land once.

Direct flights fly from Point A to point C. You don't get off the plane but you land/takeoff at point B. One more airport, one more chance for delay.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

This sounds like a bad experience, but what did you expect AirTran to do? Airlines do not provide compensation for weather delays. You are not entitled to any compensation. AirTran got you on the next available flight and you made it home safely.

I think that asking for a pair of free round trip tickets as compensation is outrageous. And if your experience was so bad, why would you want to fly AirTran again?

No, I don't work for any airline and I don't even care much for AirTran. I have been stuck at airports due to weather delays many times (especially at O'Hare) and know that you just have to go with the flow when your travel plans are disrupted. This is why I have the phone numbers of all major hotel chains programmed in my cell phone!

You should look on these types of things as an adventure, rather than getting all upset and angry over things out of your control. This will teach your child (when he/she is older) a valuable lesson as well.

 

[disneydaveb]

Airlines do not provide compensation for weather delays.

First of all, How many times does the OP have to state that the delay WAS NOT DUE TO WEATHER. I think she said that 3 times.

Also, I think some of the frequent fliers on this board are desensitized to airline delays and schedule changes.
It is much different for people who frequently travel for business or just as a normal routine in their life.
There are others who may only travel every other year or maybe once every several years for that special vacation.
It's tough if you have been saving and planning for years only to get screwed by an airline who adds hours or days to your travel itinerary.
This can not only shave days off of your vacation, but what if your return to work is delayed by a day or two. Valuable vacation days could be lost, if there are any left.

For most people who fly all the time, these Airline games can be small inconviences or annoyances. However, for someone who just wants to take his or her family on a well earned vacation every few years, it can be devastating.

Not everyone has the means to say, "Oh well, the airline screwed up our vacation, we can just try it again next week."

 

[rparmfamily]

First of all, How many times does the OP have to state that the delay WAS NOT DUE TO WEATHER. I think she said that 3 times.

Also, I think some of the frequent fliers on this board are desensitized to airline delays and schedule changes.
It is much different for people who frequently travel for business or just as a normal routine in their life.
There are others who may only travel every other year or maybe once every several years for that special vacation.
It's tough if you have been saving and planning for years only to get screwed by an airline who adds hours or days to your travel itinerary.
This can not only shave days off of your vacation, but what if your return to work is delayed by a day or two. Valuable vacation days could be lost, if there are any left.

For most people who fly all the time, these Airline games can be small inconviences or annoyances. However, for someone who just wants to take his or her family on a well earned vacation every few years, it can be devastating.

Not everyone has the means to say, "Oh well, the airline screwed up our vacation, we can just try it again next week."

Wow Disney Dave why don't you re read the original thread and see where the ga told her that it was weather related. Actually I highlighted what the OP stated so please tell us again how she didnt say this. As far as being desensitized, I think you are way off. No traveller likes to have their legs pulled by the airline and there is only so much one can do. That is why there is threads like these out in cyber space that helps travellers ask advice. I really do feel bad because like you said vacations are planned to a tee and any deviation can cause heartache however delays, lost luggage occurs pretty darn frequent and we all know that the airlines usually won't bend over backwards for the typical traveller. Once again to the OP, I am sorry you got jerked around but I invite you to come fly Delta and see what flying is suppose to be.

"She stated that it was "weather-related," that she "didn't make the rain come down" and that the airline was not responsible. It felt like AirTran did not care at all about the passengers and the inconvenience we were put through. They only offered us boarding passes on the 9:10am flight."

Rex

 

[RachelEllen]

Lastly, just because AirTran is a discount airline, does that mean we are to be treated as second class passengers? Just because our fares are discounted, we shouldn't be treated with the same level of customer service as a higher paying passenger? Hmmph...

Thanks, though, for your comments.

Hate to say it, but, yes

I detest AirTran, personally, because of several bad experiences, but, personal feelings aside, several of the ways they keep flights cheap directly impact on customer service. For example, AirTran has no relationships with other airlines. If you were stuck, a higher cost carrier has the option of placing on another airline's flight. AirTran does not. A higher cost carrier may have had the option of borrowing another airline's mechanical team to move the stuck plane. AirTran does not.

 

[rparmfamily]

Hate to say it, but, yes

I detest AirTran, personally, because of several bad experiences, but, personal feelings aside, several of the ways they keep flights cheap directly impact on customer service. For example, AirTran has no relationships with other airlines. If you were stuck, a higher cost carrier has the option of placing on another airline's flight. AirTran does not. A higher cost carrier may have had the option of borrowing another airline's mechanical team to move the stuck plane. AirTran does not.

Nice posting!!!! I understand the need for cheap airfare but you can get cheap airfare on a Major Carrier and get a better experience. I will help anyone find the cheaper fare as long as they don't fly Airtran anymore. Their customer service is poor and their contract of carriage is unacceptable. I hope DL runs them out of ATL soon.

Rex

 

[FanofTink]

[QUOTE

According to the pilot, we couldn't find a "parking spot" for the plane. The plane that was in our gate was a "terminator" and, according to our pilot, AirTran was trying to find a mechanic to move the plane. Apparently one could not be found in a sufficient amount of time.


At this point we were told by an AirTran representative that there were no more AirTran flights into Rochester that evening and that we would be booked onto flight number 584, which departed Atlanta the next morning, at 9:10am. She then gave us a brochure with a 1-800 number on it. She said that we could call the 1-800 number for a discounted room in the Atlanta area, but that room availability could not be guaranteed, nor would we be provided transportation to and from the hotel. We were amazed, disappointed, and angry. We were told that there was nothing the airline could or would do other than put us on the 9:10am flight. She stated that it was "weather-related," that she "didn't make the rain come down" and that the airline was not responsible.

[/I][/QUOTE]



Wait just a minute. Isn't it remotely plausible that the airline rep calls the delay 'weather-related" in order to avoid providing the OP and family with a hotel stay, meal vouchers, etc.? The pilot initially told his passengers a complete different reason for the delay. I'd be more apt to believe the pilot in this case and not a low level airline rep having a rough night. I would tend to believe "weather-related" is used in many cases where it's not warranted. JIMO.

 

[rparmfamily]

Wait just a minute. Isn't it remotely plausible that the airline rep calls the delay 'weather-related" in order to avoid providing the OP and family with a hotel stay, meal vouchers, etc.? The pilot initially told his passengers a complete different reason for the delay. I'd be more apt to believe the pilot in this case and not a low level airline rep having a rough night. I would tend to believe "weather-related" is used in many cases where it's not warranted. JIMO.

Well im sure as many fliers on this forum can testify, a small amount of rain can cause weather delays into atlanta therefore affecting the whole gate system. Also when an aircraft is assigned a gate it doesn't mean it will automatically get that gate.

In regards to the "terminator" plane at the gate. How could they not find people to move the plane when there is all sorts of airtran plane handlers on the flightline launching and recovering aircraft? I am actually thinking that the pilot of the a/c did a poor job in this matter versus the "low level rep". He knew the aircraft was delayed and he should have been in direct contact with "ground" and dispatch getting gate info while flying in the penalty box. If he would have done this he would have been informed that the gate was taken and could have had dispatch fight for a gate instead of sitting idol on the tarmac for 45 minutes wasting fuel. As far as the "low level rep" goes, they probably got their info from their operations center and of course they were having a bad night. Wouldn't you have a bad night if you had passengers demanding the world based upon misinformation.

Rex

 

[bavaria]

I swore to myself that I wouldn't read this thread anymore, but feel an overwhelming urge to respond.

Here is Air Tran's contract of carriage - see page 16 regarding no compensation for missed connections. http://www.airtran.com/common/pdf/AirTran_Contract_of_Carriage.pdf

disneydaveb wrote

Also, I think some of the frequent fliers on this board are desensitized to airline delays and schedule changes.
It is much different for people who frequently travel for business or just as a normal routine in their life.
There are others who may only travel every other year or maybe once every several years for that special vacation.
It's tough if you have been saving and planning for years only to get screwed by an airline who adds hours or days to your travel itinerary.
This can not only shave days off of your vacation, but what if your return to work is delayed by a day or two. Valuable vacation days could be lost, if there are any left.

Dave, I can assure you that travel delays are not enjoyable no matter how often one flies. I can't see how it is 'much different' just because one flies a lot.

My grandparents fly several thousand miles a year for pleasure; they encounter delays and deal with it. In September 2001 it took them 7 days to get home, just like many other travellers that month, but they handled it with good humour and understanding. They have had luggage go astray countless times, flights cancelled and delayed, and consider it part of the experience.

Yes, I may fly close to 100,000 miles a year, but that doesn't make a delay less frustrating. I've just learned to expect it. Losing a day of vacation is frustrating, and it's happened to me. So has returning to work a day late from vacation. But I consider it much more frustrating to have to present to clients after two days of travel with no sleep, lost luggage etc. I've learned to deal with it and get on with life - a day later the discomfort is almost forgotten.

And as I've said before, I have experienced all sorts of travel mishaps, including the 1972 Munich airport crisis, a fire in the terminal which closed Dorval airport for a day and caused almost a week of travel delays, aborted landings, diverted flights, etc etc etc. In each of those cases I cannot recall any form of compensation. In the cases which were potentially life threatening, or resulted in injury or loss of life to others, my physical well being was reward enough.

Again, I am sorry that the OP had a difficult travel time, but it is not uncommon. If travellers expected compensation every time such an incident occured, we woudl be paying several thousand dollars a flight rather than several hundred.

 

[disneydaveb]

Wow Disney Dave why don't you re read the original thread and see where the ga told her that it was weather related. Actually I highlighted what the OP stated so please tell us again how she didnt say this.

Okay. Since you said please:

1 - "According to the pilot, we couldn't find a "parking spot" for the plane. The plane that was in our gate was a "terminator" and, according to our pilot, AirTran was trying to find a mechanic to move the plane. Apparently one could not be found in a sufficient amount of time."

2 - "we feel the weather was not the cause of our delay, the cause was the gate not being open for us to "park" the plane."

3 - "As I stated in the e-mail, however, it was not weather that was a factor in missing the connection - it was the "terminator" plane not being moved in a timely fashion."


If you re-read my post, I was referring to what the OP said, not the Airtran employee.

 

[disneydaveb]

Here is Air Tran's contract of carriage - see page 16 regarding no compensation for missed connections. http://www.airtran.com/common/pdf/AirTran_Contract_of_Carriage.pdf

Thanks for posting the contract of carriage.
Wow, that is bad.
I am flying AirTran for the first time this fall. If I would have read that first, I would never have booked. I ususally fly SWA or USAir.

 

[DebbieB]

Well im sure as many fliers on this forum can testify, a small amount of rain can cause weather delays into atlanta therefore affecting the whole gate system. Also when an aircraft is assigned a gate it doesn't mean it will automatically get that gate.

In regards to the "terminator" plane at the gate. How could they not find people to move the plane when there is all sorts of airtran plane handlers on the flightline launching and recovering aircraft? I am actually thinking that the pilot of the a/c did a poor job in this matter versus the "low level rep". He knew the aircraft was delayed and he should have been in direct contact with "ground" and dispatch getting gate info while flying in the penalty box. If he would have done this he would have been informed that the gate was taken and could have had dispatch fight for a gate instead of sitting idol on the tarmac for 45 minutes wasting fuel. As far as the "low level rep" goes, they probably got their info from their operations center and of course they were having a bad night. Wouldn't you have a bad night if you had passengers demanding the world based upon misinformation.

Rex

I'm sure the pilot was in contact with dispatch. A plane could not just sit there without airline operations and air traffic control knowing about it. It was late in the evening, they may have not had a mechanic who was licensed to taxi to move it right away. Air Tran only has so many gates in Atlanta, who was dispatch going to "fight"? It's not like they can borrow one of Delta's gates. I was in Atlanta last week and we passed Air Tran's gates when taxiing in, they were all full. I've had that happen where we sat on the tarmac waiting for a gate to open even in the best of weather. The only thing about weather that may have happened is that they have to close the gate areas when there is lightning for the safety of the workers. If that didn't happen, then it seems like it was the airlines fault for the delay, not the weather.