Training Question: Heart Rate Zone and Pace

[OldSlowGoofyGuy]

This is going to be a big post, so I thought I'd spin up a new thread, rather than derail the running thread.

The question is kind of to @DopeyBadger, but I'll post it rather than PM it since others might find the answers interesting. Anyone else who has thoughts, please share.

On my plan, the easy run paces are:
EA: 10:08
EB: 9:27
LR: 9:06

My HR zones, as set up on the Garmin are:

Z1: 107 - 119
Z2: 119 - 132
Z3: 132 - 144
Z4: 144 - 157
Z5: 157 - 169

Today's run was at EA pace. T+D was 146, making the adjusted pace 10:32. I did it at 10:13 (I know, too fast!) I spent 89% of the time in Z3. The unknown is: if I had maintained a pace of 10:32 instead of 10:13, would it have put me in Z2? Average HR was 136, so the answer is 'possibly'.

EB and LR pace (even T+D adjusted) are going to put me in Z4.

Here are the questions:
On the easy runs (counting long as easy), should I be trying to maintain pace or the correct HR zone?
What is the desired zone for easy runs? 2, 3?
I suspect my max HR is higher than 169. Should I do a running test to determine the true max? (this sounds like the kind of painful thing I will enjoy!)
If EA is putting me in Z3, does this mean the plan is too ambitious?
If so, do we adjust now, or acquire more data?

I see the new Garmin is a 2-edged sword. In the old days (2 weeks ago), I wouldn't have worried about this.

Thanks!

 

[garneska]

Was going to say dopeybadger needs to respond. I just want to throw shade, had to travel to New Hampshire, weather was 66 plus 63 dew at 5 am compared to Atlanta temp of 76 (don't remember the dew). Was kind of happy to be traveling. I have a LR next weekend of 12 miles and kind of thankful I will be in NH for that.

@OldSlowGoofyGuy, am planning the SCT full on oct 28. Interested ? They also have a half. I am doing the Roswell half on Aug 19.

 

[DopeyBadger]

This is going to be a big post, so I thought I'd spin up a new thread, rather than derail the running thread.

The question is kind of to @DopeyBadger, but I'll post it rather than PM it since others might find the answers interesting. Anyone else who has thoughts, please share.

On my plan, the easy run paces are:
EA: 10:08
EB: 9:27
LR: 9:06

My HR zones, as set up on the Garmin are:

Z1: 107 - 119
Z2: 119 - 132
Z3: 132 - 144
Z4: 144 - 157
Z5: 157 - 169

My preference is to use the %HRR option. So this would take into account both your maxHR and your resting HR (as determined by the Garmin 235).

I suspect my max HR is higher than 169. Should I do a running test to determine the true max? (this sounds like the kind of painful thing I will enjoy!)

You don't currently have any runs on your plan between now and December that would get close to maxHR. If you wanted to do one, you certainly could. That could be achieved either by doing a single mile (look at the end), or doing a 5k (look at the last mile and it should be around 95-98% maxHR). If you choose to do this, then do this instead of one of the hard workouts. The Garmin defaults to 220-age which can be widely inaccurate. I have worked with people with maxHRs in the 200s and others in the 160s. There is a ton of individual variation. So, when using something like zones, which is highly dependent on maxHR and restingHR, it's important to have accurate data.

Today's run was at EA pace. T+D was 146, making the adjusted pace 10:32. I did it at 10:13 (I know, too fast!) I spent 89% of the time in Z3. The unknown is: if I had maintained a pace of 10:32 instead of 10:13, would it have put me in Z2? Average HR was 136, so the answer is 'possibly'.

EB and LR pace (even T+D adjusted) are going to put me in Z4.

Here are the questions:
On the easy runs (counting long as easy), should I be trying to maintain pace or the correct HR zone?

I personally subscribe to the idea that you train by pace and monitor HR post run. So do the runs based on the scheduled pace (adjusted for T+D if necessary) and effort of historical runs of the same type (EA, EB, Tempo, LR, etc.). Then after the run is over evaluate your performance by seeing whether the HR was similar to other similar types of runs. My EA-EB is usually 125-130 bpm. Sometimes that HR is 8:18 min/mile and other days it is a 9:45 min/mile. But I don't check the HR mid-run, only at the end.

The bigger question is: Did this feel like a ridiculously slow pace? Did it feel like you could have run it forever (not like actually forever, but you know super easy)? If yes, then the effort would suggest you were close to EA pace.

What is the desired zone for easy runs? 2, 3?

It is my opinion that your different runs should fall in these ranges (when using %HRR).

Zone 1 and 2 = EA and EB
Zone high end 2/ low end 3 = Long Run
Zone high end 3/ low end 4 = Marathon Tempo
Zone 4 = HM Tempo, 10k
Zone 5 = 5k at the very end and mile.

Here is my last week:



I usually try to have about 65-75% of my total time spent training in zone 1 and 2. The rest of the time is usually in zone 3 and 4. I spend almost no time at zone 5 (to be fair since I use an optical HR monitor and not a chest strap I'm probably in zone 5 during some of the sprint work but the lag of the optical doesn't catch it).

One thing I remember from Jack Daniels is that the stroke volume of the heart is maxed around 65% HR. So he believes that easy training should occur around or below this. You get the benefits of easy running without the additional fatigue. He says that going over 65% adds no additional "easy run" benefits and only adds excess fatigue. But I'd say when running up a hill I might go over this value on an easy day, but it quickly drops back down below it (another reason I tend to pay attention more to effort and scheduled pace). Since effort plays such a pivotal role, I tend to schedule "blind" runs with no GPS feedback to help people become better at accurately assessing effort.

If EA is putting me in Z3, does this mean the plan is too ambitious?
If so, do we adjust now, or acquire more data?

Let's check to make sure the zones are setup appropriately before we plan on making any changes.