Training Plans - cut back weeks, # of runs per week

[Figment1990]

Hi all.... Since i'm not actively training for the princess or the marathon right now, I'm getting antsy and looking at training plans to use for my next half in May. Thought I'd get some opinions from my favorite DISrunners!

What are your opinions about Galloway and Higdon's plans? I'd be looking at Galloways experienced (maybe with a time goal), or Higdon's novice 2 plan. I don't do the run/walk method. I walk a little about every 3 miles. It looks like the two key differences are:

Galloway: 18 week plans (or longer), with 3 runs per week and cutback weeks
Higdon: 12 week plans with 4 runs per week, steady build.

Any comments on either from anyone? Success, advice, problems?

I did Galloway for the w&d half in November (although I ended up doing 2 11-mile runs vs. the 12.5 and 14 he had on the plan). I finished the race around my goal time 2:45, but I did injure my right foot (tendonitis) which took 6 weeks to heal and my base mileage has really suffered! About a month before the w&d, I had some issues arise, so in order to build up my mileage again, I know I built up too fast in the weeks leading up to the race and I'm hoping it was that and the banked roads that led to my injury because I don't want to take 6 weeks to recover from every half! I've already started a better cross training program to help build up my muscles as well.

I have 4 months (16 weeks) until a potential half that I haven't signed up for yet. My other thought was to take a break from the half distance and focus on the 10k distance and just get really comfortable with that and sign up for an August half instead. Which would improve my time more and less likely lead to injury: A) 4 months of 3-6 mile runs 4x/week then 3 months half training, or B) 7 months of training for two half marathons with two shorter and one long run/week?

 

[tolemommy]

I injured my IT band 2 years ago. I ended up going to physical therapy which helped a great deal. While at PT I learned quite a few warm up stretches that I still use prior to running and my physical therapist recommended building up my mileage at a slower 1/2 mile per week once I got into the longer training runs. This HAS worked really well for me. Once I hit miles 8-9 ish in my training plan I build at a half mile per week instead of a mile or more per week. It takes a bit longer and you have to add additional weeks into your training plan but I finished strong and wasn't in any pain after I completed the HM's.

Good luck!

 

[cewait]

Number of runs per week....

I have no issues with a runner running 4-5x a week. The issue starts to become one of over use injury for many. Also as we age, the number needs to fall back. Most runners in their 50's will need to come back to 3 runs a week at some point in time. Saying this, I do think that the non-running days need some sort of activity, otherwise the cardio system starts to fall



I coach and train with periodization in mind. I generally work on a 3 week build, 1 week recovery... but also have many little peaks within an annual cycle where A races and other races peak the schedule. A training schedule would look like an escalating saw tooth when laid out on a graph.

One needs to understand their goals here. I would try to focus you on a 10k plan with a few 10ks in the spring and early summer. A 10k is a great race. It is so long that you need to have patience and a plan of attack, yet short enough that you can come close to running all out for most of the race. It's kind of the perfect race. By focussing on training for a 10k, you will increase speed because if you train properly, you will be taxing the upper end of the aerobic zones in training and increase your aerobic capacity. That will carry forward into your half races in the fall.

Of the two plans you are looking at... I like Galloway's build on the long runa nd Higdons week. Not much help, huh

 

[tedhowe]

I've used the HH Novice 2 for my 3 half marathons this year, and I really enjoy the progression.

HH does have cut back weeks built into the plan, but they are not as big a cut-back as the Galloway plan, I guess.

I did modify the plan slightly and allowed myself to be flexible if necessary. For instance, my first race was on saturday and my long runs that cycle were on Sunday, so I would have had my first and only 12 mile run prior to my first HM just 6 days before race day... that seemed a bit to aggressive to me, so I swapped out the 12 mile run with a cut-back 8 (or maybe 7) miler from the week before and I did the long run two weeks before race day.

In the second cycle for the Philly HM in November, I ended up bailing out on the 12 mile run after only 8 miles that day because of cold/wet weather and soaking cold feet. I knew I could do the distance and would just a week later, so I had no problem with allowing myself to cut the run short.

The thing I really do like about the HH plan is the three mid-week runs are back-to-back-to-back... and are long enough to be a challenge. This was tough at first... with the third day in a row really feeling like worn out legs in the first half of the program, but I believe that it really helped improve my endurance and overall speed as well.

When race day got there in November, I was able to cut almost 14 minutes off of my time from my first half (2:41:55 to 2:28:15) thanks to how strong I felt after a good taper and the harder training.

In prep for WDW Half in January, I've been following the HH Novice 2 outline, but with ramped up mid-week mileage... long runs have been the same, but I've increased to 4/6/4 and then 5/7/5 in the plan and it has all been going very well, though I think I was just about at a close edge to overtraining before cutting things back a bit about 10 days ago. (Due to also trying to do a running streak from Thanksgiving to New Years - not the HH plan itself).

There's nothing wrong with taking Coach's idea as well... if you like aspects of both plans, combine them to your liking and give it a try.

Ted

 

[Ariel484]

I like Higdon plans too. I used a Galloway plan for my first half marathon and never felt like I was doing enough during the week. I've found that 4 days per week of running is my sweet spot, and the Higdon plans DO have step-back weeks, so it's good by me.

 

[Figment1990]

My apologies about stating that the higdon plans didn't have cutback weeks. I did see that on his plan, I just forgot it by the time I came over here to post! But thank you for bringing that up because others who may have read my post would have had misinformation! And because of the way HH's planned cutback weeks are, I think it is more like Coach's sawtooth plan also.

I really appreciate the opinions of people on here. It's so interesting to see what different people do to get ready for races.

Ted - that is a good point about the back-to-back-to-back runs helping build endurance. That's one of the things I was thinking might be helpful. I was going to start off a little "easy" and do a couple weeks of two day running in a row, and then go into three in a row.

I think I also like how higdons plan builds mileage a little slower and doesn't go past 12. I like that it builds by 1 miles, vs the 1.5 miles that Galloway's does. And I definitely didn't have a problem having not been up to 13 before the half. Hmmmm... leaning Higdon right now for whenever it is I start training (now or fall).

Thanks Coach for the 10k distance encouragement. I am not a fast runner (can't quite get under 30 for my 5k) but I like that mentally, I can now do the 5k distance like it's a walk in the park (or i could 6 weeks ago!) I think it would be nice to get to the point where 5 or 6 miles is also a walk in the park.

 

[KippWade]

Watch Hal Higdons novice 2 plan. I've been advised by many people that I really shouldn't do 12 miles the week before the race, so I've modified the end of the schedule to cut back some, instead of ever increasing.

I followed the Novice 1 plan building up to the 2012 Half Marathon and really liked the plan, that is why I started with the Novice 2 plan for this year.

The mileage done during the week is very manageable for me. Since the Half is on a Saturday, I've shifted the entire schedule back a day from what they have posted for a Sunday race.

 

[Diskidatheart]

I used the HH plan for my first 10k (The Great Race) and used the Novice 2 plan for training for the Half in Disney. I started out using the Galloway plan for the half, but then I didn't like how it had you running 14 miles. I also peeked at the Marathon training that Galloway had and it had you running a full 26 miles a few weeks prior to the marathon. I didn't like that and thought that the Galloway program was really geared for the run/walk/run that he promotes, which I don't want to do...nothing wrong with that, but I want to RUN my first half in Disney and first full marathon in Pittsburgh.

What I liked about HH's Novice 2 program is what Tedhowe already mentioned. I like running the 3-5-3 during the week and then the long run on the weekend. During the training, I felt pretty beat after 3 consecutive days of running, but then having Friday off rejuvinated me and I was able to do the long runs on Saturday with no problem. What I didn't like about the HH program is running 12 miles the week before the race. I altered the training a little for me. Instead of running a 10k race in week 9, I continued to add mileage and moved my 12 mile run up a week (which is this weekend). That will give me an added week to start tapering down and to have my legs pretty fresh for race day in 15 days! What I also like about HH's training is that if my body told me to give it a rest one day during the week, I didn't feel like I was missing anything. I felt skipping a 3 mile run wasn't going to hurt me and it was better to listen to my body and take a break rather than push through a 3 mile run in Week 10 or 11. I only did that once, but it was nice to have that option.

In no way am I knocking Galloway's training method, it just wasn't for me. Just psychologically, I felt better prepared using HH's method. With only 2 weeks left, I feel that I am ready to run the 13.1 with no issues...

 

[ironz]

My concerns with the Galloway plans are: 1) I don't think the 30-45 minutes twice in the week is enough running during the week, and 2) I don't firmly believe you have to run the race distance before race day (esp for a slower runner, who is going to take a good 4 hours or more even for the 20 mile run).

I like the Higdon novice plans better.

And I really liked the Penguin's plans (John Bingham)....so that's what I went with for this year's training. (but didn't totally follow it because I'm a slacker sometimes and had life in the way...we'll see if I can survive in 3 weeks...lol)

I actually got a calendar out and wrote down all the plans...Galloway, Higdon (2 versions) and Bingham (2 versions) and that way I could compare and contrast with all the data right in front of me to see what looked most reasonable for me.

 

[cewait]

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I actually got a calendar out and wrote down all the plans...Galloway, Higdon (2 versions) and Bingham (2 versions) and that way I could compare and contrast with all the data right in front of me to see what looked most reasonable for me.

That's what Excel is for....

But I then plug in my training calendar into Outlook and TrainingPeaks so I have an appointment. Otherwise, I tend to 'forget' what the purpose of the day's run is.

 

[Goofierunner]

My concerns with the Galloway plans are: 1) I don't think the 30-45 minutes twice in the week is enough running during the week, and 2) I don't firmly believe you have to run the race distance before race day (esp for a slower runner, who is going to take a good 4 hours or more even for the 20 mile run).

I hear what you are saying. I've been using Galloway but have pushed my midweek runs to 5-7 miles minimum and have scheduled more back to backs. I've been pretty injury free while I've been training for goofy. I am using 2/1 but normally end up running through most of my walk breaks. It's nice to have the guidance of, ok I can walk for a minute, but then I need to start again. It's worked really well for me. I plan on taking it easy during the half, then pushing it during the full.