Traded into DVC- many questions!

[welovedisneyx4]

Orlando options in general and Westgate specifically are hard to move. Expect to recoup only a fraction of what was paid if it was through the resort. Many resale agents have stopped even listing Westgate due to the fact Westgate has tried to impose a ROFR even in situations where they don't have the legal right. They even go a step further and demand the commission in addition. The only Orlando options that have any success resale are those with a catch like Marriott, DVC, Hilton, Hyatt and the like.

What does ROFR mean? I know we wont get much return, we paid it off early w/ an equity loan for something else, but we just want it gone!

 

[emerymt]

I'd like to relate a situation we had at Westgate Vacation Villas a few years back and see if anyone thinks it was legal. We stayed there for a few days on II points as a last-minute addition to a Palm Beach trip. While we were there, we were told we had to come to the front desk to do an inventory checkout. Well, we had never heard of such a thing before. They called us several times to make an appointment for it. I knew a sales pitch was going to be involved, but they literally threatened us with a bill if anything from the unit was missing. Well, who knows what other people might have lost, or what Westgate would decide was "missing"?
So finally, we went down there.

We were ready to leave Orlando and the kids were in the car. The attendant at the desk says she has to call George (not his real name). We waited- we could see the kids and the eldest was 13, so we weren't too anxious. A big, physically intimidating guy led us to a back room where there were lots of coffee, juice, rolls,etc. We told him we had to make it quick because the kids were waiting. He said he had to go get something, that we were to stay there, and left. We waited for about five minutes more and then walked out. We were actually surprised the door to the lounge wasn't locked.While we were pulling out of the parking lot, George re-materialized and literally stepped in front of the van. We veered around him and took off. I called the credit card company and immediately explained what had happened, what to expect in legitimate charges, and that they should deny everything else unless we okay'd it.

Is this legal? I can imagine what could have happened to other people who were less wise to the game and less self-confident. It was classic intimidation psychology- the guy had to have had training in the technique.

 

[Dean]

What does ROFR mean? I know we wont get much return, we paid it off early w/ an equity loan for something else, but we just want it gone!

Right of First Refusal. It means if you get a contract they can step in and buy it at the same terms. As i mentioned, Westgate had gone a step further last I heard by demanding they step into the commission as well.

I just scanned through the full 3 pages of Westgate Orlando adds on TUG. Most were in the range of $2500 to $5000 for a 2 BR and I saw 4 BR for $4000. If I were looking to buy, I'm comfortable I could get a Westgate in Orlando for $1000 or less if I were to put an effort into it. That's a hard realization for many timeshare owners who bought high, esp retail from Westgate. If you truly want to get rid of it put it on ebay with no reserve.

 

[Dean]

I'd like to relate a situation we had at Westgate Vacation Villas a few years back and see if anyone thinks it was legal. We stayed there for a few days on II points as a last-minute addition to a Palm Beach trip. While we were there, we were told we had to come to the front desk to do an inventory checkout. Well, we had never heard of such a thing before. They called us several times to make an appointment for it. I knew a sales pitch was going to be involved, but they literally threatened us with a bill if anything from the unit was missing. Well, who knows what other people might have lost, or what Westgate would decide was "missing"?
So finally, we went down there.

We were ready to leave Orlando and the kids were in the car. The attendant at the desk says she has to call George (not his real name). We waited- we could see the kids and the eldest was 13, so we weren't too anxious. A big, physically intimidating guy led us to a back room where there were lots of coffee, juice, rolls,etc. We told him we had to make it quick because the kids were waiting. He said he had to go get something, that we were to stay there, and left. We waited for about five minutes more and then walked out. We were actually surprised the door to the lounge wasn't locked.While we were pulling out of the parking lot, George re-materialized and literally stepped in front of the van. We veered around him and took off. I called the credit card company and immediately explained what had happened, what to expect in legitimate charges, and that they should deny everything else unless we okay'd it.

Is this legal? I can imagine what could have happened to other people who were less wise to the game and less self-confident. It was classic intimidation psychology- the guy had to have had training in the technique.

It's not illegal but it's obviously unethical. Westgate and Spinaker have the worst reputations for sales tactics and hard sale for the US. They try some amazing tactics. But out of the US, esp in MX, it can get even worse. I know of people being bussed out into the middle of no where, kids held hostage, door locked for 6.5 plus hours, even physically threatened if one didn't buy. Usual things are similar to this story, member updates, concierge services, etc. I'm waiting to hear where someone with a cell phone calls 911 and says they're being held hostage.

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

Mostly what I do is look in the II book that I get annually, research the places I want to go, and call II up to get in the queue.

DVC members don't get the II catalog, but there is a link to the online II catalog on the DVC member site. It's on this page. (Don't try going directly to the II site unless you own there too and have a password. The link from the DVC site gets you into II without needing a second password.)

As Dean said, there's no way from this site to see availability (or number of points required either), but it is a good way to do some research on what's available in the area you want to visit.

Dean, I hope your sources are right that we'll be getting a more robust interface in the future.

 

[Dean]

Dean, I hope your sources are right that we'll be getting a more robust interface in the future.

I think I can expand a little without violating any confidence, not that I have a lot more info. I do know DVC is or was actively negotiating with II and had actually put off a full round of contracts related to this negotiation. When I voiced the reasons I didn't think DVC was a good exchange option (can't trade up, limited resorts, no bonus week, no wish book and full points costs at under 60 days) I was told to expect the negotiations to answer some of my concerns. Looking at those issues, there really are only two things that can happen without an otherwise wholesale change in the system. That is for flexchange (under 60 days) to be a lower cost like other points systems that have corporate II account and work with II directly with points including Starwood and Worldmark. The only other thing they could do would be to allow members to go out on their own and join II directly. They could do it as a parallel and keep the same basic structure otherwise so members could have the choice of either approach or they could shut down their current program and allow members to decide to join II if they wanted to exchange. That would come withe a yearly fee to belong and higher exchange fees likely the same as the rest of II ($135 & $149) A move that would benefit some of us greatly but would be detrimental to someone who only wanted to exchange a time or two. The best of all worlds would be to allow either or, something that wouldn't cost DVC or II anything and would greatly increase the II availability for DVC I believe because those of us who are timeshare savvy aren't going to give up 160-270 points to II for all but the tip of the iceberg like the Maui Marriott.

 

[welovedisneyx4]

Right of First Refusal. It means if you get a contract they can step in and buy it at the same terms. As i mentioned, Westgate had gone a step further last I heard by demanding they step into the commission as well.

I just scanned through the full 3 pages of Westgate Orlando adds on TUG. Most were in the range of $2500 to $5000 for a 2 BR and I saw 4 BR for $4000. If I were looking to buy, I'm comfortable I could get a Westgate in Orlando for $1000 or less if I were to put an effort into it. That's a hard realization for many timeshare owners who bought high, esp retail from Westgate. If you truly want to get rid of it put it on ebay with no reserve.

I would love it if Westgate would buy it back, but they say no..at least directly w/ out having someone else wanting it 1st.

Another question...what is "no reserve" on ebay?

Thanks for your answers w/ this.

 

[Dean]

I would love it if Westgate would buy it back, but they say no..at least directly w/ out having someone else wanting it 1st.

Another question...what is "no reserve" on ebay?

Thanks for your answers w/ this.

Westgate doesn't want it, they want control and to force you as an owner to not be able to sell it at all so that those that do buy will buy from them. Maybe I'm missing it but I'm saying that you'll likely be lucky to get $2-3K for this with a fair amount of work maybe as little as $1000 total plus closing or even less. Ebay with no reserve means you put it on for auction and if it brings $1 you sold it and walk away. Another option you may pursue is a deed back. That is where you deed it over to Westgate with the agreement that it's theirs and you have no responsibility. If they agree, make sure you get it in writing before you sign anything or proceed if you take this option.

This is how ROFR works. You have to have a valid contract before it kicks in and as I noted, this is still somewhat convoluted with Westgate. But they won't agree under this provision UNTIL you do have a contract.

Thankfully the head of Westgate, David Seigel, was unsuccessful in his recent bid to execute a hostile takeover of Bluegreen. Here is a quote about the findings of the courts. If I need a real estate attorney, I want the same one BG used if I can afford them.

Under the terms of the settlement, the Siegel shareholders must reduce their holdings by at least 5.4 million shares within one year, and fully divest their holdings within two years. Pending their sale, all Bluegreen shares owned by the Siegel shareholders will be voted in accordance with the recommendations of Bluegreen's Board of Directors. The Siegel shareholders have also agreed not to pursue any takeover or other extraordinary transaction with the Company or to seek to control or influence Bluegreen's management.

The Company also amended its rights plan yesterday, as agreed in the settlement. As amended, the rights plan will give the Siegel shareholders additional time to sell their shares, consistent with the schedule set by the settlement. If the Siegel shareholders comply with the schedule and all other terms of the settlement, the fact that they hold more than 15% of Bluegreen's common stock will not trigger the rights and the resulting dilution of the Siegel shareholders' holdings.

 

[emerymt]

Thanks to all of the posters here & elsewhere. Here's what we're going to do. First, I am dropping the cruise. Because of where we live, and the potential for weird weather, we'd have to plan to fly to WDW at least one (probably two) days ahead of time. Then a four-day cruise, then a week at Disney. Too much for me! I reserved the cruise back in June, then we went to Hawaii for two weeks and that seriously set me back for several weeks. Really, it's the traveling that just kills me. I want to go somewhere and stay put.

Here's what I'm going to set up at OKW:
1. Call and ask for a nonsmoking room in a quiet spot. I'm a little worried about third floor/no stairs but noise is infinitely worse, to me, and I don't want to make a lot of picky requests.
2. Get the DDP, for all it's faults, I like not hauling money around.
3. Call a local grocer to deliver to OKW
4. Use the Magical Express and consider renting a car at the Dolphin if we need it for some reason.

One final question- I have old Disney tickets (ten of them) going back to '03. I am pretty sure they have only "plus" days on them. If I wait until we get there to buy tickets, is that a bad thing? Can I buy tickets in advance and add the old plus tickets on when we get there?

Thanks!

 

[emerymt]

We'll just bring our old tickets, find out what's on them and use them at the turnstiles, from what I read I guess they will still work.

Thanks!

 

[Dean]

Thanks to all of the posters here & elsewhere. Here's what we're going to do. First, I am dropping the cruise. Because of where we live, and the potential for weird weather, we'd have to plan to fly to WDW at least one (probably two) days ahead of time. Then a four-day cruise, then a week at Disney. Too much for me! I reserved the cruise back in June, then we went to Hawaii for two weeks and that seriously set me back for several weeks. Really, it's the traveling that just kills me. I want to go somewhere and stay put.

Here's what I'm going to set up at OKW:
1. Call and ask for a nonsmoking room in a quiet spot. I'm a little worried about third floor/no stairs but noise is infinitely worse, to me, and I don't want to make a lot of picky requests.
2. Get the DDP, for all it's faults, I like not hauling money around.
3. Call a local grocer to deliver to OKW
4. Use the Magical Express and consider renting a car at the Dolphin if we need it for some reason.

One final question- I have old Disney tickets (ten of them) going back to '03. I am pretty sure they have only "plus" days on them. If I wait until we get there to buy tickets, is that a bad thing? Can I buy tickets in advance and add the old plus tickets on when we get there?

Thanks!

I don't think plus options have any value for trade in. Any unused park days will be credited at the original value per day, not the current value per day. It sounds like you'd be better off using those tickets when the proper opportunity arises even if you have to buy totally separate tickets for this trip. Even if you could trade them in, you can only trade in one ticket on one new ticket.

 

[emerymt]

I didn't know they still had the old turnstiles up and working. We probably can avoid buying the "plus" options, this time, we have so many of these! So we'll just bring them along and use them. I like ordering the tickets in advance, anyway. I'm going to need a separate wallet just for tickets- 20 of them!

 

[Dean]

I didn't know they still had the old turnstiles up and working. We probably can avoid buying the "plus" options, this time, we have so many of these! So we'll just bring them along and use them. I like ordering the tickets in advance, anyway. I'm going to need a separate wallet just for tickets- 20 of them!

You may have to take the cards to Guest Relations and have them swap for new cards if they are not the magnetic type but if so, there is no cost to do so. You can do that at DD as well at the guest services there, usually a great place to get any of these type things accomplished.

 

[emerymt]

I guess I'm pretty much going to take all my old cards to Guest Relations, dump them on the counter, and let them figure it out!