Tracking Cruising Restart: News and Updates

[mmouse37]

Which cruise are you all on? When I go to Disneycruise.com the only NYC cruises I see right now are the one way to PR and the two that go to Bahamas?

October 24 2021. 6 night NYC to St John, New Brunswick - Halifax, Nova Scotia and Bar Harbor, Maine

MJ

 

[mmouse37]

b/c it has nothing to do with science... a mask on the pool deck while in the sun? A mask on between bites of food? preposterous!

I agree. We were in Disney’s Hilton Head resort in October and masks were not required on the pool deck or pool. Was in WDW in March and same thing. No mask required on pool deck. Also in every sit down restaurant we were in at WDW you could take your mask off for the entire time you were seated. It is not at all practical to mask up between bites and sips. That’s unrealistic.

MJ

 

[Husker Mike]

So do these CDC rules go away for vaccinated cruises? Like say Disney doesn't do the test run and they require the 98%/95% of crew and passengers be vaccinated. Are they then not required to have masks on the pool deck?

Disney is not going to be able to run a vaccinated cruise. While yes, reports are that kids age 12-15 can get vaccinated perhaps as soon as next week, kids younger than 12 are still many months away that.

The restaurant guidance is just silly, masking after each bite/sip.

This is almost certainly a reaction to the abuse of drinking exceptions by people who grab a beverage and periodically sip it occasionally as an excuse to not wear a mask. It's clumsily worded, but the idea is that having an open cup or drink is not an free-pass from masking.

 

[Intr3pid]

Here is what the order says specifically:

"While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order."

This is quite different from NCL's Del Rio's narrative. It was also questioned by the interviewers yesterday. See the reaction at the end of the video.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/05/...o-weve-mandated-100-percent-vaccinations.html
Like I noted previously, he hasn't really done much towards meeting the other requirements of the CDC's order. So, he now wants to deflect the issue and blame it on something else.

 

[Intr3pid]

I agree. We were in Disney’s Hilton Head resort in October and masks were not required on the pool deck or pool. Was in WDW in March and same thing. No mask required on pool deck. Also in every sit down restaurant we were in at WDW you could take your mask off for the entire time you were seated. It is not at all practical to mask up between bites and sips. That’s unrealistic.

MJ

Hilton Head has just 126 rooms and a capacity of maybe 400 people. It's like comparing a local school with a university and asking the university to adopt the school's policies.

 

[jrapps]

I think the mask situation is being PARTIALLY blown out of proportion. Has anyone here actually read the Mask Use portion of the COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (wow that is a mouthful!)

If you are getting your info from the news or other posts, I urge you to read the actual document and decide for yourself before jumping to conclusions. If you haven't read it, here it is

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html#mask-use
Nowhere does it say you have to put the mask on as you are chewing or between bites. That same issue was brought up when WDW modified their policy, and was debunked then too. The CDC says "removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order". Now you can choose to interpret this any way you want, but if you do at least tell people it's your interpretation. When people say things like "You are required to put your mask on as you chew" that is an interpretation, not a CDC order. They specifically say you can "removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking". If you interpret a brief period of time as a single bite, ok then. I interpret it as during the consumption of food at a meal.

My interpretation is that this is intended to prevent people from nursing a drink for hours as a way to avoid wearing a mask. This means you can't take your mask off as soon as you sit in a restaurant and leave it off until you decide to stand up, whether you are eating or not. In WDW, they ask you to keep your mask on until you are delivered food or beverage, and can keep it off until you are done eating. They ask that you put the mask back on when you are done even if others at the table are still eating.

I am NOT saying that this isn't harsher than rules on land, so please don't jump to attack me here. Yes, these rules can be over the top. But can we also tone the rhetoric down a notch and realize that the CDC is not "forcing you to wear a mask while chewing", that is just a ridiculous statement, and in no way true.

Now they ARE forcing masks to be work on pool decks, I am not going to deny that.

"Ensure bathers wear masks while congregating outside of recreational water facilities (RWFs) and while seated on the pool deck area. Masks do not need to be worn in the water"

I will save my analysis of that rule for a different post.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

October 24 2021. 6 night NYC to St John, New Brunswick - Halifax, Nova Scotia and Bar Harbor, Maine

MJ

Canada is closed to cruise ships until February 2022. This is just Disney sitting on money. It won't sail. CDC has no say in this one.

 

[jrapps]

So, masks on a pool deck...the rule says

"Ensure bathers wear masks while congregating outside of recreational water facilities (RWFs) and while seated on the pool deck area. Masks do not need to be worn in the water"

Yeah, I think most if not all of us agree this one is harsh, and a bit excessive. It also is reflective of how the CDC views cruising. While being on a pool deck is "outside" in fresh air, I think we need to look at the CDC orders as a whole, not picking individual pieces out to rip apart. Technically, rules on land for outdoors were just changed and are far more open than this.

My interpretation of this and other rules as a whole is that the CDC is viewing the entire end-to-end cruise experience as a bubble and being extra cautious because of that. I truly think their heart is in the right place, no I don't think they are TRYING to kill the cruise industry. I think in their own way they are trying to do the right thing, and I also believe as the first few cruises happen, these rules WILL relax.

For those comparing masks and other rules to life on land, here is a perspective for you. Imagine if you were at a resort hotel with 3,000 other guests, and everyone was confined to the hotel for 7 days straight. You can walk around and do activities in the hotel all you want, but you must eat every meal at the hotel. You can only do activities at the hotel. You cant leave. That is more like a cruise. Plus, cruises are more confined spaces. When we say things like "we can eat out now at restaurants" or "go to a public pool or beach without masks", at no time when we are doing those INDIVIDUAL things are we surrounded by the exact same people, for all activities, for days on end. The people sitting next to me at a restaurant I have never met before, and will likely never see again. Same for the pool. But on a cruise, you are with the same people over and over. There is an inherent higher risk of bacterial and virus transmission in that setting.

I am NOT trying to justify all of this, I admit the rules are not fun. But I can also admit I see where they are coming from, and can only hope that by complying and having cruise after cruise sail without any issues, then the rules will relax. If you think the CDC intends to keep these in place for years and years, you are just fear mongering.

 

[easy1234]

If you are getting your info from the news or other posts, I urge you to read the actual document and decide for yourself before jumping to conclusions. If you haven't read it, here it is



Nowhere does it say you have to put the mask on as you are chewing or between bites. That same issue was brought up when WDW modified their policy, and was debunked then too. The CDC says "removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order". Now you can choose to interpret this any way you want, but if you do at least tell people it's your interpretation. When people say things like "You are required to put your mask on as you chew" that is an interpretation, not a CDC order. They specifically say you can "removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking". If you interpret a brief period of time as a single bite, ok then. I interpret it as during the consumption of food at a meal.

Well, the CEO of NCL says thats is what it says, and I am pretty sure he gets his info from lawyers instead of just making stuff up. If the CEO's statement isnt enough, his interpretation matches the current federal mask mandate on airlines in place by guess who (the CDC).


baltimore cbslocal com/ 2021 / 04/ 22/ baltimore-county-kicked-off-southwest-airlines-flight-eating-twizzlers-no-mask /

"He showed WJZ a selfie video he made during the flight, in which he said, “I, Avi Mandel, just got kicked off a plane because I wasn’t wearing my mask in between bites while I was eating.”

After he emailed Southwest, he found out a new federal mask mandate went into effect requiring airline passengers to wear face masks at all times, including “in between bites.”


But feel free to believe that what the CDC mandates for airlines (which is in line with the CEO of NCL's statement) somehow wont apply to cruise ships..


Edit: to further clarify my point, the CDC has the *exact same language* for airlines (brief periods of time), which as proven above, means masks between bites. I think its pretty safe to say at this point what it means, but you are welcome to ignore all of the evidence to the contrary.


cdc gov /coronavirus /2019-ncov/travelers/face-masks-public-transportation.html

People are not required to wear a mask under the following circumstances:

• while eating, drinking, or taking medication for brief periods of time;
• while communicating for brief periods of time with a person who is hearing impaired when the ability to see the mouth is essential for communication;
• if, on an aircraft, wearing oxygen masks is needed because of loss of cabin pressure or other event affecting aircraft ventilation;
• if unconscious (for reasons other than sleeping), incapacitated, unable to be awakened, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance;
• when necessary to temporarily remove the mask to verify one’s identity such as during Transportation Security Administration (TSA) screening or when asked to do so by the ticket or gate agent or any law enforcement official;
• when experiencing difficulty breathing or shortness of breath or feeling winded, until able to resume normal breathing with the mask; when vomiting until vomiting ceases; or if wearing a mask interferes with necessary medical care such as supplemental oxygen administered via an oxygen mask.

 

[jrapps]

Well, the CEO of NCL says thats is what it says, and I am pretty sure he gets his info from lawyers instead of just making stuff up. If the CEO's statement isnt enough, his interpretation matches the current federal mask mandate on airlines in place by guess who (the CDC).


baltimore cbslocal com/ 2021 / 04/ 22/ baltimore-county-kicked-off-southwest-airlines-flight-eating-twizzlers-no-mask /

"He showed WJZ a selfie video he made during the flight, in which he said, “I, Avi Mandel, just got kicked off a plane because I wasn’t wearing my mask in between bites while I was eating.”

After he emailed Southwest, he found out a new federal mask mandate went into effect requiring airline passengers to wear face masks at all times, including “in between bites.”


But feel free to believe that what the CDC mandates for airlines (which is in line with the CEO of NCL's statement) somehow wont apply to cruise ships..

I don't think just because the "CEO said it on TV" makes it any more or less truthful. A lot of that is court of public opinion, not actual rule of law.

For airplanes, can you point to the specific language on the CDC website that talks about the mask mandate for eating on a plane? I would offer that it is not the same language as what I have read specifically on the CDC website for cruises. The actual published info for cruising. We can make assumptions all we want, but unless the wording on those is exactly the same, then no I don't agree that the rules that apply to planes also apply to cruises. The cruise guides also say that tables at restaurants are 6 ft apart. I know they aren't telling people on planes to sit six ft apart. Different place, different rules.

Edit - I see you posted that the language is in fact the same, and thus I stand corrected. Will be very interesting to see how this plays out. It technically does only say "brief periods of time", not "in-between bites", but I acknowledge you were correct on the matching language.

The plot thickens!

 

[easy1234]

Edit - I see you posted that the language is in fact the same, and thus I stand corrected. Will be very interesting to see how this plays out. It technically does only say "brief periods of time", not "in-between bites", but I acknowledge you were correct on the matching language.

The plot thickens!

Personally, I am hoping if this plays out as I think it will, cruisers will revolt which will cause the cruise companies to push back on some of these inane rules, but we will have to see how it plays out.

 

[Princess Merida]

If they're using the fact that it's a bubble with the same people repeatedly exposed to each other as a reason to tighten restrictions that is ridiculous. The people on a cruise will likely be vaccinated and will definitely have been tested. I can fly and sit between two strangers with none of us being vaccinated or tested. These regulations are absurd.

 

[jrapps]

So I did a little more digging...the rule you reference is a TSA rule, not a CDC one

While eating, drinking, or taking oral medications for brief periods.
of mask removal are not permitted for eating or drinking; the mask must be worn between bites and sips.

I'm not sure the organizational relationship here between CDC, TSA, etc. I can see how the CDC published guidelines, and the TSA has interpreted them for the purposes of air travel (I am in a tin can sitting 0 ft away from a person I don't know). I have yet to see it written down anywhere that applies to cruise ships that the same rul applies there. TSA has no jurisdiction on boats.

I am not saying you are wrong mind you, I just don't see it written anywhere that the rule is that harsh on cruise ships. It appears that the TSA is the one that made the rule harsher, not the CDC

 

[easy1234]

Edit: Nevermind, I misunderstood what you were saying

 

[jrapps]

Edit: Nevermind, I misunderstood what you were saying

We keep editing our posts at the same time LOL. I actually thought your last post sounded fine, but here is what you asked for.

Page 3 of this document:

https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/sd-1542-21-01.pdf
It is a TSA guideline. I have not seen this language anywhere on a CDC website or document

 

[easy1234]

Page 3 of this document:

https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/sd-1542-21-01.pdf
It is a TSA guideline. I have not seen this language anywhere on a CDC website or document

Yep, it took me a minute to figure it out. The between bytes thing seems to be from the TSA. I hope that I am wrong, I just can see masks between bites if they are expecting you to wear a mask when outside sun bathing while socially distanced, you know, silliness.

 

[jrapps]

Yep, it took me a minute to figure it out. The between bytes thing seems to be from the TSA. I hope that I am wrong, I just can see masks between bites if they are expecting you to wear a mask when outside sun bathing while socially distanced, you know, silliness.

I hear ya. If they do intend it to be in between bites on cruise ships, that will really suck. I truly do not believe that is their intention but as with everything else only time will tell.

I'm just so ready to go on a cruise, if they ask me to wear a hazmat suit I might do it.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Keep in mind that cruise line CEOs work to crate sound bites when on telly and may not be discussing nuance.

 

[princessmommyx3]

I truly think their heart is in the right place, no I don't think they are TRYING to kill the cruise industry. I think in their own way they are trying to do the right thing, and I also believe as the first few cruises happen, these rules WILL relax.

I think you're giving them too much credit. I think these are the same people who wear 2 masks to go check their mail and gasp at the thought of someone vaccinated sitting next to a pool unmasked.

 

[Husker Mike]

Cruise line CEOs are also trying to get cruises started, and those sound bites are given to promote the company's position, even if it's not quite correct.

As for masks on deck, if pool chairs/loungers are left as they were in pre-pandemic times immediately adjacent to the next one, that's just like being at an outdoor event (concert, sporting event, etc.) and masks/social distancing have to be considered. Take half to 2/3rds of those chairs out, and there's a good argument to be made that masks aren't needed on the deck. (But you'll need it when you leave...)