Track & Field Suggestions

[mom2rtk]

This is the first time my son has run Track. He's a distance runner, so at least I get a decent length of time to get some shots.

It was pretty sunny yesterday when he had his first meet, so I used my Tamron 18-270. I wasn't sure what settings to use, so I set it to sports mode. I did OK, but was a little disappointed. Many of the photos were out of focus. These were close, but not as sharp as I'd like.

I'm guessing it's because there are SO many things in the field of view for the camera to choose from to focus on. Then add the fact that there are many people moving around.

I've always done well with sports mode in the past for other sports. But in soccer, and even football, there's usually just a couple (or a few at most) kids in the frame with mostly grass in the background. And I think spectators in the background at other sports are farther away from the action, so the camera is not tempted to mis-focus in sports mode. Or maybe my son is just SO fast the camera couldn't focus in time!! (OK.... he's FAST, but it IS his first season....)

There's another meet today. I'm thinking I'll ditch the sports mode and go shutter priority. I thought I'd go 1/400 or so and use one-shot focus with it set to the center point.

Does this sound like a better approach? Anyone have other suggestions? You know..... other than hopping the fence to find a better angle ON the field with less background clutter.... Wouldn't want to embarrass him you know! (although he'd tell you that ship sailed LONG ago.....)
1/500
f5.6
ISO 400

1/500
f5.6
ISO 400

 

[Suburbanmom]

What focus mode are you using? There are 3 on my Nikon D300 and I find that with shooting sports action, it is important to use (C)-continuous-servo AF.


(S) - Instant single-servo AF will give you a fixed foucs point when you hold the shutter button half-way (I hear a little beep to let me know that focus is fixed)
(C) - Continuous-servo AF will keep focusing on whatever you are focusing on in the viewfinder (ie...it keeps adjusting the focus as your subject moves...great for sports!
and (M) manual which means you have to do all the focusing yourself (not great for actions )

Keep your shutter speed fast and your button pressed half-way and you should be able to catch the action clearly.
My son is also a distance runner, so I know you will have lots of opportunity to practice. Best of luck today!

 

[Mosca]

I think the technical stuff is secondary to the fact that your son doesn't stand out from the background in these shots. Can you get to a place on the track where he is running right at the camera? That will put some distance between him and the background (except for the runners chasing him).

If you're comfortable on "sports" for your exposure, leave it there. It's the focus tracking that you want to use. Set your auto focus mode to "AI Focus" (on Canon, "AF-C" on Nikon) so that the camera's autofocus will track him as he runs toward you.

 

[ThurlFan]

You could try putting your autofocus in AI-Servo mode. What this will do is continue to adjust the focus for a moving subject while you compose. Hold the button down halfway and as he moves toward you the camera will attempt to keep him in focus as best it can.

Look in the manual (p 60) for (I also have an XSi) for more explanation on the different autofocus modes.

You may not be able to adjust this in Sports mode - Tv mode (shutter priority) may work for you, set the shutter speed to 1/320 or 1/400 to freeze the action. In this mode, the camera will select the aperture for you, but you still have control over which ISO setting you want.

Good luck!

PS: Amy, I had the same thought it just took me longer to articulate. I looked at the exif data and saw she's shooting a Rebel XSi same as me, hence the difference in names for the settings

 

[disneyboy2003]

Looks like your camera is already choosing 1/500 sec for your shutter speed. That's probably the minimum you'd want to go for track / running. I wonder if you can try going faster on your shutter speed, say 1/1000 sec?

Also, are you selecting a single autofocus point? Or are you letting the camera "randomly" select the autofocus point (don't do this)? If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend selecting the center autofocus point. That way, *you* have control over the exact place for the camera to look for autofocus.

Does your camera have an "AI Servo" mode? (btw, "AI" stands for "artificial intelligence") Actually, your Canon XSi does have "AI Servo". Think of it as a predictive autofocus for moving subjects. You press the shutter button 1/2-way down and track your subject (your son) for about 1-2 seconds. That way, your camera knows what & where the subject is, and it can calculate & predict where the subject will be when you're ready to press the shutter all the way down to take the photo. All this "AI Servo" stuff should help you get sharper photos of moving subjects.

Because of this, I probably would not go with one-shot focus. The risk of one-shot focus is that during the few milliseconds between achieving autofocus and actually taking the photo, your subject could have moved enough that he is no longer in focus when the photo is actually taken.

One other thought. Do you have a "faster" lens (ie. a lens with a larger aperture)? I'm not sure what lens you actually used, but I see that your focal lengths were 109mm and 119mm respectively, so I assume it's a zoom lens with a variable aperture? (Edited to add: Oops, I forgot that you did mention your lens above.) If you find that you'll be shooting at around the 100mm focal length during track season, I wonder if you'd be better off with the 100mm f/2 lens (about $400 from B&H: link). At f/2, this lens will let in about 8x more light than your lens at f/5.6, which will then allow you to use those faster shutter speeds.

I don't have any track photos handy (I have some from 2008 that I haven't touched or uploaded yet ), but here are some short-track speed skating photos I took last month. I'd guess that their speeds on ice were much faster than folks running on track.

ISO 800, 148mm, f/2.8, 1/1600 sec

ISO 800, 195mm, f/2.8, 1/1600 sec
​

 

[Suburbanmom]

PS: Amy, I had the same thought it just took me longer to articulate. I looked at the exif data and saw she's shooting a Rebel XSi same as me, hence the difference in names for the settings

I thought about that after I hit "submit reply"...figured someone would chime in and give the Canon tech terms.

 

[llrain]

definitely ditch the auto all together, you will learn more.
High shutterspeed to freeze the subject in action is key.
Look at the examples posted. I would go with at least 1/1000
and work your way to 1/2000

 

[mom2rtk]

What focus mode are you using? There are 3 on my Nikon D300 and I find that with shooting sports action, it is important to use (C)-continuous-servo AF.


(S) - Instant single-servo AF will give you a fixed foucs point when you hold the shutter button half-way (I hear a little beep to let me know that focus is fixed)
(C) - Continuous-servo AF will keep focusing on whatever you are focusing on in the viewfinder (ie...it keeps adjusting the focus as your subject moves...great for sports!
and (M) manual which means you have to do all the focusing yourself (not great for actions )

Keep your shutter speed fast and your button pressed half-way and you should be able to catch the action clearly.
My son is also a distance runner, so I know you will have lots of opportunity to practice. Best of luck today!

AMY - Thanks for the quick reply. Great shot of your son! This was my first time to even attend a track meet, so I had no idea what to expect, not even which direction he would be running! What kind of lens do you use for track?

I think the technical stuff is secondary to the fact that your son doesn't stand out from the background in these shots. Can you get to a place on the track where he is running right at the camera? That will put some distance between him and the background (except for the runners chasing him).

If you're comfortable on "sports" for your exposure, leave it there. It's the focus tracking that you want to use. Set your auto focus mode to "AI Focus" (on Canon, "AF-C" on Nikon) so that the camera's autofocus will track him as he runs toward you.

The more I think about it, the more I do think all that background clutter was the problem. But right now I'm not sure if I will have other options. That was the setup on our home field track, so it's not likely to change. I don't believe parents were allowed beyond the fence into the track area.

In retrospect, I'm thinking now maybe I should have gone down around the bend of the track. It would put me MUCH farther from the action, but if it's sunny, my 270 should provide the extra reach.

You could try putting your autofocus in AI-Servo mode. What this will do is continue to adjust the focus for a moving subject while you compose. Hold the button down halfway and as he moves toward you the camera will attempt to keep him in focus as best it can.

Look in the manual (p 60) for (I also have an XSi) for more explanation on the different autofocus modes.

You may not be able to adjust this in Sports mode - Tv mode (shutter priority) may work for you, set the shutter speed to 1/320 or 1/400 to freeze the action. In this mode, the camera will select the aperture for you, but you still have control over which ISO setting you want.

Good luck!

PS: Amy, I had the same thought it just took me longer to articulate. I looked at the exif data and saw she's shooting a Rebel XSi same as me, hence the difference in names for the settings

You know, I'm eternally grateful to anyone who can actually quote a page number to me in my manual!! Thank you!

AI servo is the mode where the focus and exposure continues to adjust. Isn't this what I was using when it was in sports mode anyway? I know it's perfect for a moving subject, but when there's all that background clutter so close, isn't it more likely it might decide to focus on something else?

I know I'll do better on one count today: Yesterday my son ran 2 events. He told me to be there at 3:45, but when I got there I found out he had already run one of them! Note to self: Regardless of what teenage son says.... arrive a little early.... Bring camera manual to read for the umpteenth time while waiting.....

Many thanks to everyone for helping me out!

 

[disneyboy2003]

AI servo is the mode where the focus and exposure continues to adjust. Isn't this what I was using when it was in sports mode anyway? I know it's perfect for a moving subject, but when there's all that background clutter so close, isn't it more likely it might decide to focus on something else?

With AI Servo, you press the shutter 1/2-way down and you keep the camera's center autofocus point on your subject the whole time. Sometimes, that means you move the camera with your subject. Or, when your subject is running straight toward you, you don't have to move the camera at all...just keep the center autofocus point directly on your subject.

Bring camera manual to read for the umpteenth time while waiting.....

One thing you can do is download the PDF version of your camera's user manual and load it onto your iPhone or BlackBerry. Here's the link to the PDF version of your camera manual: http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/3/0300000933/01/EOSRXSi-EOS450D_EN.pdf

I think you actually did really good for being a first-time track photographer.

 

[mom2rtk]

Looks like your camera is already choosing 1/500 sec for your shutter speed. That's probably the minimum you'd want to go for track / running. I wonder if you can try going faster on your shutter speed, say 1/1000 sec?

Also, are you selecting a single autofocus point? Or are you letting the camera "randomly" select the autofocus point (don't do this)? If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend selecting the center autofocus point. That way, *you* have control over the exact place for the camera to look for autofocus.

Does your camera have an "AI Servo" mode? (btw, "AI" stands for "artificial intelligence") Actually, your Canon XSi does have "AI Servo". Think of it as a predictive autofocus for moving subjects. You press the shutter button 1/2-way down and track your subject (your son) for about 1-2 seconds. That way, your camera knows what & where the subject is, and it can calculate & predict where the subject will be when you're ready to press the shutter all the way down to take the photo. All this "AI Servo" stuff should help you get sharper photos of moving subjects.

Because of this, I probably would not go with one-shot focus. The risk of one-shot focus is that during the few milliseconds between achieving autofocus and actually taking the photo, your subject could have moved enough that he is no longer in focus when the photo is actually taken.

One other thought. Do you have a "faster" lens (ie. a lens with a larger aperture)? I'm not sure what lens you actually used, but I see that your focal lengths were 109mm and 119mm respectively, so I assume it's a zoom lens with a variable aperture? If you find that you'll be shooting at around the 100mm focal length during track season, I wonder if you'd be better off with the 100mm f/2 lens (about $400 from B&H: link). At f/2, this lens will let in about 8x more light than your lens at f/5.6, which will then allow you to use those faster shutter speeds.

I don't have any track photos handy (I have some from 2008 that I haven't touched or uploaded yet ), but here are some short-track speed skating photos I took last month. I'd guess that their speeds on ice were much faster than folks running on track.

ISO 800, 148mm, f/2.8, 1/1600 sec

ISO 800, 195mm, f/2.8, 1/1600 sec
​

Yes, I was using my Tamron 18-270 with a variable aperture. I do now have the Sigma 50-150 f2.8 and am sad to admit had it along in my bag. I honestly thought with the bright sunlight yesterday that the Tamron would be better because of the extra reach. Remember when the event started I had no idea what the setup would be so I didn't know what focal length I would need.

I have been ditching the auto modes more often than not lately. But without knowing what to expect yesterday, I opted for sports mode.

Here's my confusion? Doesn't sports mode just preselect the AI servo mode and a fast shutter speed ANYWAY? That's what made me think I needed a different approach.

The meet today is at a different high school, so once again, I don't know they layout. But I'll switch to the faster Sigma lens, select AI servo and 1/1000 for the shutter speed.... and hope for the best.

Part of my problem is that I don't know the coach, and my son is new to the team, so I'm way less likely to push my luck on how close to get and where to stand. Maybe I'll wear dark sunglasses and a trenchcoat and pretend not to know my son .....Over time, hopefully I'll have a little more leeway. Maybe I'll snap more pics of the kids in the other races to give the coach.... The sad part is I got better pics of my son's friend yesterday than I did of my own son!

 

[ThurlFan]

One thing I try to do at any event where I want pics of a particular person is take some throwaway pictures of someone else who appears earlier in the program. If your son is in the boys 3000 meter race and there's a girls 3000m shortly beforehand, try getting some pictures of the girls with various settings and see what seems to work. I know it's not always the easiest to evaluate picture quality on a little LCD but it's better than no information at all, and you're better prepared for the pictures that mean something to you.

 

[mom2rtk]

With AI Servo, you press the shutter 1/2-way down and you keep the camera's center autofocus point on your subject the whole time. Sometimes, that means you move the camera with your subject. Or, when your subject is running straight toward you, you don't have to move the camera at all...just keep the center autofocus point directly on your subject.




One thing you can do is download the PDF version of your camera's user manual and load it onto your iPhone or BlackBerry. Here's the link to the PDF version of your camera manual: http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/3/0300000933/01/EOSRXSi-EOS450D_EN.pdf


I think you actually did really good for being a first-time track photographer.

First, many thanks for the vote of confidence!

I still think that's the way the sports mode works. I point it, keep it half way down, and I actually hear it continually adjusting. Regardless, I'll try accessing AI Servo manually this time.

And I love your idea of downloading my manual to my phone. But I'm guessing my circa 2007 flip phone won't cut it! YIKES! My secret is out.... I'm a techno-nerd!! (Dare I admit that I still use Photoshop Elements 2.0??? DOUBLE)

 

[mom2rtk]

One thing I try to do at any event where I want pics of a particular person is take some throwaway pictures of someone else who appears earlier in the program. If your son is in the boys 3000 meter race and there's a girls 3000m shortly beforehand, try getting some pictures of the girls with various settings and see what seems to work. I know it's not always the easiest to evaluate picture quality on a little LCD but it's better than no information at all, and you're better prepared for the pictures that mean something to you.

Yes, I admit, since it was a home field meet, I was chatting with the other parents more than practicing! Today is an away meet so I probably won't know another soul there.... perfect for "focusing" on the photography!

The problem I had with the focus really wasn't apparent on the small screen though, especially since it was pretty sunny out. But you can bet I'll be practicing on those other events today too. (It's that or the camera manual, remember.....)

 

[Suburbanmom]

AMY - Thanks for the quick reply. Great shot of your son! This was my first time to even attend a track meet, so I had no idea what to expect, not even which direction he would be running! What kind of lens do you use for track?

I use my 70-200mm f/2.8, but I think your Tamron or Sigma will do fine. I'd pick the Sigma first because of the f/2.8, but on a sunny day I'd give the Tamron a try. It really depends on how close you can get to the track. If he runs cross-country in the fall, you will be able to get a lot closer to the runners.

ThurlFan has a good idea about taking practice shots of other people's kids. My other suggestion is to get friendly with the yearbook advisor, offer to give him/her shots for the yearbook and see if you can get a press pass onto the field.

 

[Mosca]

The more I think about it, the more I do think all that background clutter was the problem. But right now I'm not sure if I will have other options. That was the setup on our home field track, so it's not likely to change. I don't believe parents were allowed beyond the fence into the track area.

You know what, though, it doesn't hurt to ask, ask for a photographer's pass or something. Sometimes you get one. Make friends with a coach, and tell him/her that you'll shoot the meet and share the pictures. Some pretty amazing stuff can happen.. or not, but you never know, y'know?

 

[disneyboy2003]

Here's my confusion? Doesn't sports mode just preselect the AI servo mode and a fast shutter speed ANYWAY? That's what made me think I needed a different approach.

Actually, I think you're right. I think that Sports Mode automatically selects "AI Focus" (which is actually a combination of One-Shot autofocus + AI Servo, depending on if your subject is moving). However, it looks like even on Sports Mode, your camera selected a shutter speed of 1/500 sec. I'd still try for at least 1/1000 sec for track.

Maybe I'll snap more pics of the kids in the other races to give the coach.... The sad part is I got better pics of my son's friend yesterday than I did of my own son!

I think that's how a lot of parents get started...and fund their expensive photo hobby. $$$$$$$

 

[mom2rtk]

I use my 70-200mm f/2.8, but I think your Tamron or Sigma will do fine. I'd pick the Sigma first because of the f/2.8, but on a sunny day I'd give the Tamron a try. It really depends on how close you can get to the track. If he runs cross-country in the fall, you will be able to get a lot closer to the runners.

ThurlFan has a good idea about taking practice shots of other people's kids. My other suggestion is to get friendly with the yearbook advisor, offer to give him/her shots for the yearbook and see if you can get a press pass onto the field.

You know what, though, it doesn't hurt to ask, ask for a photographer's pass or something. Sometimes you get one. Make friends with a coach, and tell him/her that you'll shoot the meet and share the pictures. Some pretty amazing stuff can happen.. or not, but you never know, y'know?

Amy, I'm bringing both lenses today and will see what I think. If it's bright sunshine, I'll stick with the Tamron, but if it clouds over any I'll go to the Sigma. Unless I'm farther away than yesterday.

Great ideas from both of you on gaining access. I'll have to develop that part of it slowly. I'm not sure if my son wants me on the field, press pass or not. I'll take his feelings into consideration first.

 

[mom2rtk]

Actually, I think you're right. I think that Sports Mode automatically selects "AI Focus" (which is actually a combination of One-Shot autofocus + AI Servo, depending on if your subject is moving). However, it looks like even on Sports Mode, your camera selected a shutter speed of 1/500 sec. I'd still try for at least 1/1000 sec for track.



I think that's how a lot of parents get started...and fund their expensive photo hobby. $$$$$$$

You know.... It did cloud over just a bit later in the afternoon. I had settled on the Tamron because of the bright sun when it started, but I think it got a little cloudy. Maybe the lens was at max aperture and 1/500 was all it could muster...... The wheels are turning.... they might be a little slow.... but they are turning.

The sun's out again today, but who knows by afternoon again. That Sigma might get a good workout.....

 

[mom2rtk]

One last question:

Assuming it's still sunny, would I go with a 200 ISO?

If it clouds over, maybe 400? Or should I just wait and see how low I can go with a 1/1000 shutter speed?

 

[handicap18]

Not sure if someone posted it and I missed or it wasn't brought up. Either way I'll throw it out there.

I know someone mentioned focus modes, but from what I saw mentioned it was between manual, single and continuous (servo). For moving objects, as has already been stated, use continuous (servo).

What I didn't see mention was the focus points that you see in your view finder. There should be a few options with that as well. For something so specific as to get 1 person within a bunch in focus, I change your focus points to single. Then use the thumb wheel on the back of the camera to move between the different points in the view finder. This way YOU have complete control over what in the view finder gets focused on. If you let the camera choose what focus points to use (and when that happens the camera will choose multiple points) you don't know what the camera see's as opposed to what YOU see.

Basically, use single point focus in continuous focus mode. This way you find what you want in focus and as it moves the camera will refocus on that point (so long as you hold the shutter 1/2 way).