TourGuideMike...Which days at which parks & EMH ??

[justcruisin]

I tried TGM but found nothing I did not already know. No doubt there are tips and great suggestions, but with all the information and *LOUD* presentation - I didn't think I'd ever find them.

I considered posting my questions on TGM's forums, but I way paying for an "automated vacation planner", not the opinions of the forum users.

Mike politely and promptly refunded my money.

 

[Pedler]

Just curious...is TGM a qualified sociologist (a great deal of theme park people patterns are pure sociology) a mathematician, a trained travel expert....

What are his credentials? Is he just some guy? Does he have a staff? I haven't subscribed to TGM yet (not sure if I plan to) but it appears to me that the UG employs quite a few people and researches their advice from various angles. Just one guy doesn't have that same authority that a large group of professionals AND families would.

Shel

Hi Shel,

The best way to find out about Mikes credentials is to check out the first page at www.tourguidemike.com. It doesn't cost anything to check that out.

In a nutshell Mike was a Walt Disney World Employee and among other things we was a VIP tour guide for Disney. He left and started his own tour guide business, Micheals VIP's. He and his staff plan and escort VIPs throughout WDW on a daily basis. TourGuideMike is a site that provides the information they use to plan the VIP's vacation experiences.

TGM and touringplans.com approach the parks in two different ways. The UG looks at crowd levels and maximum waits during the peak afternoon times. They look at the school calanders, hotel occupancy and such. I think they are good at telling you what times of the year are busier than others. Mike provides that as well but also provides info on how to tour the park once you are there. He explains the "why" behind the plans so you can adjust on the fly. A case in point was our recent trip. Using a UG plan we would have been done way early and then would have had to decided if we wanted to repeat anything. Of course at that time some of the lines got a bit long so I am not sure we would have wanted to back track and done that. By using a TGM style of plan we adjusted on the fly and did many more rides, 26 in all, without ever waiting more than 2-3 minutes in line. (Yes, I did time the lines with the stop watch on may watch. Much to DW's embarassment.)

Anywho Mike and his guides are in the parks daily and has your trip gets closer they provide first hand info on how things are changing. For example when the living seas closed for refurb the crowd patterns in Epcot changed. TGM provided that info while I didn't see it anywhere else.

 

[WendyMichaelJohn]

Okay, just found his credentials. Better than I thought, but I think I'd be even more impressed if I saw "dad" on there. I like that the UG consults lots of families to get actual family experience on there. Escorting my dd around WDW is probably way different from escorting Shaq around WDW.

Still undecided, but I think I know which way I'm leaning.

 

[Pedler]

One thing I wanted to add:

It actually reminds me of something that I saw in New Orleans years ago that I was thinking about recently. I love the street entertainers there. I remember there was a guy who told passersby, "I'll bet you one dollar I can tell you where you got those shoes." He was so convincing that so many people couldn't resist. When they took the bet and placed a dollar on a stand, he would say, "You got those shoes on your feet!"


That's the feeling I get with TGM, but I could be wrong.

Shel

Shel,

I don't mean this as a flame but that is a fairly negative comment on TGM and you don't have any first hand knowledge of his service. You definitley have the right to express your opinion but it is damaging to post this type of negative information without having some sort of factual basis for it.

 

[WendyMichaelJohn]

Shel,

I don't mean this as a flame but that is a fairly negative comment on TGM and you don't have any first hand knowledge of his service. You definitley have the right to express your opinion but it is damaging to post this type of negative information without having some sort of factual basis for it.

I said it was a suspicion, it's a public message board, and I'm not under any obligation to TGM to make sure everyone likes him. Anything that is supported with great fanaticism is suspect to me.

The thing about TGM that makes me suspect is the self-improvement style approach. It looks like an infomercial. Throw into the mix semi-fanatic supporters who take it personally when someone says they suspect it is charlatanical (did I just make up a word?) and I REALLY get suspcious.

If you had negated my suspicions with some actual facts, then I might reconsider. But so far you've only said, "That's not nice." I'm glad you feel that way, but if you want to change my mind, you're going to have to give me something a little more concrete.

Ahhh, but you can't....that User Agreement.

Shel

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

Pedler -

Yes, I understand about the high signal to noise ratio at the DIS sometimes. I don't do the "dance" threads, and yes, it can get a bit tiresome when people jump to conclusions about things such as the dining plan.

In a way, we are a vicitm (the entire Disney community) of the "internet effect" - overload of information based on assumptions that makes things bigger than they are. I mean, the Disney Internet community spends way more time disecting every tidbit than it takes Disney to make the tidbit. For instance, think of all the virtual ink that was used across all the Disney sites regarding the changes to the menu at the Garden Grill - when it's possible the change occured when some suit ate there and scribbled down a memo saying "try some more upscale style food, my wife thought the catfish was gross".

Where I think this relates to this topic is, once you peel away all the assumptions and over-analyzing (which I am probably more guilty of than your average DISer), Disney isn't really THAT complicated. A perfect example is the Dining Plan, in the example you mentioned. There are huge threads about it when it's pretty simple : appetizer, entree, dessert, drink. Expect what the program promises, and if you get extras offered, it's a nice surprise. Instead we have "well, on 9/05 California Grill let me add a skewer of shirmp..." and ten pages of people talking about it. So yes, I do understand that frustration. I'm lucky to have a certain amount of structured time each week where I have to be in front of a computer for a certain length of time with no agenda, so I don't mind filtering so much. But, in the end, most of it is pretty straight forward. We make it more complicated just for the fact we spend so much time discussing it.

I haven't posted on the TGM topic for awhile (though there have been many threads lately about him, it seems), but did here because it seemed there was a question of sharing information. You are correct - it does just irk me that there is supposedly this information that is so secret you shouldn't share it with other Disney fans. The example I gave above regarding the connecting stores on Main Street sticks out in my mind because TGM stops the "tip" to specify, "remember, you read our little agreement!" for something that is pretty rudimentary in my eyes. Not something everyone is going to know right away, but not a "secret" either.

One of the benefits of TGM, as you mentioned, was the centralization of threads, again re: the dining plan. I understand that it's easier for some people to have one "word" from someone - especially if time is of the essence. But I guess that's the key to what bothers me when this discussion comes up - most people who talk about TGM with the usual effulgence are a bit overzealous, as even TGM himself admits. The distinction I rarely see made is that many people are talking about access to the message board, and not the "automated vacation planner" (which is really just a collection of article) or the content of the articles. So, in essence, it feels to me like people are paying for a message board. When this distinction is not made, people join up (as have posted here before) and expect the articles to contain information that they may not have to offer. The articles aren't updated terribly often in some cases, but the message board is - a key distinction.

You know what would make me less inclined to dislike TGM? If he just released the articles to the internet (made the whole thing open, heck use some ads if he must - many Disney sites do) and then charge a fee for access to his message board (and therefore to him personally). So the "Main Streety shops are connected..." is there free, and he charges for the up-to-date information (perhaps even keeping new pages for 30 days or some such delay, like the AllEars newsletter). I just don't feel like what is advertised is what is sold...there is nothing really automated, and when you say "automated vacation planner" many people expect something that is going to spit out personalized itineraries. I know I did - and I am a pretty informed consumer. As you may have sensed I rarely fork over any cash for virtual resources.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Your mileage may vary. Perhaps I should change my tag line, LOL.

N.E.D.

 

[Disneydreamer315]

Congradulations on your first post Dave. Welcome to the Dis.

Well, I give this thread about half a day before it gets shut down.

As for regular posters to the TGM threads, I would say it was far more the small number 'negative posters' that frequent these threads on a consistent basis. If you do a search on TGM on the Dis boards, and do nothing but look at the names, you will see there are always new TGM supporters and satisfied customers (along with those strong TGM advocates- yes I am one of them!.)

'80% of the info is found on the Dis.' I always find this an interesting statement.

I suppose my comment is, while there is some OUTSTANDING content on this site, there is also a lot of not so great information. What makes it further confusing to those who are not Vets, (dis or otherwise) is the amount of conflicting information. '80% can be found on the Dis' . Well, I am sure that somewhere, on some thread, written by someone, this could possibly be true. However, just as true, you will find 10 people who hotly disagree with the information and will 'prove' to you why it is wrong. Who do you believe? Some of TGM's best advice is hotly denied here on the dis, and by other sources of information.

Example: you are building a bridge. You invite everyone to share their ideas on how best to build it and build a model. Everyone from fortune tellers, to doctors, teachers, civil engineers, to the guy in the bar, the kindergarden class, and a rocket scientist present a model. Which one would you stand on?

I dont know about you, but I think I would pick the guy whose profession it is to build a bridge, the civil engineer (assuming he/she is a good one, with a known reputation, and puts his/her stamp on it). Does that mean anyone elses has no value? Nope -- I am sure there are some good ideas out there for a bridge, but I would rather trust my life (or Disney Vacation) to someone who is a paid professional. TGM tours the parks every day, and is paid thousands of dollars per day by VIp's to take advantage of his advice. Every trip report on his forums has been positive, even during the peak seasons.

The nature of the public forum is -- anyone can post. Thats great. There are many strong opinions on the dis-- and thats great too. But many people who strongly voice their opinions on certain things disney are basing it on their own personal experience, which may be 4 trips to disney over 3 years. (It may be one or no trips as well -- or a Vet who has gone 15 x in a year) Is their opinion valid? Sure it is, they base it on their own experience. Whos opinion am I going to trust? TourGuideMiKE's. He and his guides are in there everyday. He owns another company that sole purpose is to take around the ultra rich around Disney during peak travel times, and he has stated that they do not get front of the line privledges, he just uses the same advice as what is stated in the AVP. Do I mind paying for 'knowing' what the facts are? Nope, and I own a passporters too. I consider my trip well worth the investment of such a little bit of money.

Is TGM good for everyone? Nope. Does it cost you anything to find out if it works for you? Nope -- money back guarentee, no time limit on it. Why does this always become a debate where people feel the need to be rude? I wish that was not the case.

 

[Pedler]

I said it was a suspicion, it's a public message board, and I'm not under any obligation to TGM to make sure everyone likes him. Shel

Hi Shel,

I think its just a philosophical difference on what to post on public message boards. Because they are public and some people will accept whatever they read without critical review of the information I tend be be carefull when posting information. In particular negative information about something. Its not just here but on any board. I like to make sure I have some first hand knowledge about it before I post a view point.

Just my .02.

One other thought is if you notice I think there are been maybe two negative reviews of TGM by actual users, both of whom got thier money back, as opposed to the many more postive reviews. Accepting that nothing is going to be 100% I think the views of people that have actually used TGM are overwhelmingly positive.

Something to think about for those of you that are considering TGM.

 

[JohnNJ]

Let me see if I understand -

Shel wants Pedler to convince her that TGMike will make her vacation better.

N.E.D. wants TGMike to change his business model and give his info away for free.

 

[WendyMichaelJohn]

Let me see if I understand -

Shel wants Pedler to convince her that TGMike will make her vacation better.

N.E.D. wants TGMike to change his business model and give his info away for free.

Nope. I'm going to be at WDW with my family. No UG or TGM is going to make it better. Possibly more efficient, but they will have absolutely nothing to do with the value. My husband and children and siblings and parents will. What gets me is the implication that the value of my vacation will be negatively impacted if I DON'T use one of them. I don't get that feeling from the UG, but I do from TGM.

Shel

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

One other thought is if you notice I think there are been maybe two negative reviews of TGM by actual users, both of whom got thier money back, as opposed to the many more postive reviews. Accepting that nothing is going to be 100% I think the views of people that have actually used TGM are overwhelmingly positive.

I think this is because the supporters support it so strongly that most people feel it's useless to say otherwise because some of the more...overzealous people are organized and attack DIS threads specificly when they feel threatened.

Now, I'm not saying this is you or any one who has posted in this thread today, but in the past one TGM member has seen something they deemed "netagive" and sent out a "call to the troops" to get a bunch of TGM supporters to post.

As I said about myself, I have participated in several heated TGM threads before, but generally avoid the topic these days. However, when people early in this thread started questioning "secret" information, I did read the thread and shared my opinion. Even TGM admits some of his fans are a bit...again, overzealous in their praise, so I think that's why you will find most people avoid discussion of the topic like it's a mug-reusing-pool-hopping-lying-about-kids-age-thread.

N.E.D.

 

[WendyMichaelJohn]

so I think that's why you will find most people avoid discussion of the topic like it's a mug-reusing-pool-hopping-lying-about-kids-age-thread.

N.E.D.[/QUOTE]


I just finally figured that out. I've learned to avoid those, but I had no idea until the last few days how passionate some people get about what kind of touring plan other people use or how foolish it is for others to not use one or another or not use one at all.

Learned my lesson. New topic to avoid.

Shel

 

[Pedler]

Pedler -


In a way, we are a vicitm (the entire Disney community) of the "internet effect" - overload of information based on assumptions that makes things bigger than they are. I mean, the Disney Internet community spends way more time disecting every tidbit than it takes Disney to make the tidbit. For instance, think of all the virtual ink that was used across all the Disney sites regarding the changes to the menu at the Garden Grill - when it's possible the change occured when some suit ate there and scribbled down a memo saying "try some more upscale style food, my wife thought the catfish was gross".

Where I think this relates to this topic is, once you peel away all the assumptions and over-analyzing (which I am probably more guilty of than your average DISer), Disney isn't really THAT complicated. A perfect example is the Dining Plan, in the example you mentioned. There are huge threads about it when it's pretty simple : appetizer, entree, dessert, drink. Expect what the program promises, and if you get extras offered, it's a nice surprise. Instead we have "well, on 9/05 California Grill let me add a skewer of shirmp..." and ten pages of people talking about it. So yes, I do understand that frustration. I'm lucky to have a certain amount of structured time each week where I have to be in front of a computer for a certain length of time with no agenda, so I don't mind filtering so much. But, in the end, most of it is pretty straight forward. We make it more complicated just for the fact we spend so much time discussing it.
N.E.D.

N.E.D.,

Two things. One the info on the dinning plan at TGM was in an article and two you would not believe the numer of average, non analytical, visitors to WDW that do not have a clue about how the dinning plan works. My own family that spent some time with us didn't understand that credits were pooled as a group for a room and you could use them all at once or all at the end or anything else. They thought that they had to use them once a day or lose them.

My point is that while to people that have the time and inclination to sift through the message boards may be well informed a lot of people don't have the time or inclination to sift through it and others are just put off by some of the tone hear.

Just me .02.

BTW keep the mileage may vary tag. It is very appropriate to WDW.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

N.E.D. wants TGMike to change his business model and give his info away for free.

That's not exactly what I said...

It seems that most people who enjoy TGM do so for the message boards, ultimately. That's what keeps them "hooked".

TGM could easily charge a monthly or yearly fee for access, and drop the akward "pay per vacation" model (which just isn't optimal...too exploitable anyway, I'm surprised he has kept it as long as he has). Hold up new articles for a period of time to give extra benefit to subscribers, and he's got an effective business model.

Let's face it, someone could easily go in there and copy paste all of his stuff, take away the <insert name> silliness, and post the information anywhere on the Internet and there isn't one thing he can do about it. You can't copyright facts. I'm shocked it hasn't happened before. As long as just the facts were extracted and not the fluffy words around it, it's not even a question.

By being up front and charging for what he's really charging for anyway (or that most people are actually paying for, once they've read the site, even if they found what they read in the more static pages useful), I think his business model would be much more sound into the future - and I wouldn't think so poorly of the site (but that wouldn't change how much the "Good 'ol lii' buddy talk is like nails on a chalkboard to me, LOL).

aw:
N.E.D.

 

[Pedler]

Nope. I'm going to be at WDW with my family. No UG or TGM is going to make it better. Possibly more efficient, but they will have absolutely nothing to do with the value. My husband and children and siblings and parents will. What gets me is the implication that the value of my vacation will be negatively impacted if I DON'T use one of them. I don't get that feeling from the UG, but I do from TGM.

Shel

Shel,

Sorry if you miss understood. I don't advocate that TGM, UG or anything will make a vacation better or worse. They will affect how you tour the parks and how long you wait in line and such. For some people that affects the vacation for others waiting in lines isn't a big deal. Heck some people here at DIS have expressed a preference to wait in line and connect with thier family. In that case any touring plan that reduced waits would negatively impact thier vacation.

For us with DS6 & DS8 keeping our maximum wait in line to less than 5 minutes the entire 7 day trip did make it more enjoyable. But that is just us. To others and maybe yourself lines and such aren't a big deal.

Pedler.

 

[Pedler]

That's not exactly what I said...

It seems that most people who enjoy TGM do so for the message boards, ultimately. That's what keeps them "hooked".

TGM could easily charge a monthly or yearly fee for access, and drop the akward "pay per vacation" model (which just isn't optimal...too exploitable anyway, I'm surprised he has kept it as long as he has). Hold up new articles for a period of time to give extra benefit to subscribers, and he's got an effective business model.

Let's face it, someone could easily go in there and copy paste all of his stuff, take away the <insert name> silliness, and post the information anywhere on the Internet and there isn't one thing he can do about it. You can't copyright facts. I'm shocked it hasn't happened before. As long as just the facts were extracted and not the fluffy words around it, it's not even a question.

By being up front and charging for what he's really charging for anyway (or that most people are actually paying for, once they've read the site, even if they found what they read in the more static pages useful), I think his business model would be much more sound into the future - and I wouldn't think so poorly of the site (but that wouldn't change how much the "Good 'ol lii' buddy talk is like nails on a chalkboard to me, LOL).

aw:
N.E.D.

Hey N.E.D.,

How about this? He charges for the forums and throws in the articles as a free benefit to subcribers.

Sometimes I just crack myself up.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

My point is that while to people that have the time and inclination to sift through the message boards may be well informed a lot of people don't have the time or inclination to sift through it and others are just put off by some of the tone hear.

Just like many are put off by the tone at TGM.

For a beginner yes, I am sure they will find something at TGM. I just don't think it's as tough as you say to find out information here or through other Disney sources. Most of the discussions you are talking about are regarding changes in progress and rumors, but as I said for most of these things it's not terribly complex in the first place. There are plenty of people who are decently informed like myself, and those that are incredibly informed, and it doesn't take long to figure this out when asking questions.

When I read what people said about TGM they made it sound like something I don't believe it is, and I just wish he was more up front and accurate in his advertisements to reflect what I believe his site offers.

aw:
N.E.D.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

Hey N.E.D.,

How about this? He charges for the forums and throws in the articles as a free benefit to subcribers.

Sometimes I just crack myself up.

Honestly?

Yeah, that would work for me. If he advertised it as message boards and access to a "collection of tips" and stopped with the whole "my secret advice", and "automated", then yup, I'd be less critical. I still would believe that the DIS has benefits of more voices (with the same caveat) but I wouldn't be so...bothered by him.

aw:
N.E.D.

 

[NCombs]

Hi N.E.D.

When you talk about people who get "overzealous" in support of TGM, don't you think it is fair to say you are equally overzealous with your criticism of TGM?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I usually enjoy your posts but as someone who reads some of the TGM posts on the DIS (and yes, I do use TGM but I'm not "overzealous") I would say you are just as fired up with your beliefs as TGM supporters are about theirs.

 

[vettechick99]

I don't know about y'all but TG Mike is one hottie!