Tour Guide Mike or UTG....

[Selket]

Mic

Thank you for coming flat out and saying what I've thought for over a year now - that Mr. Testa is often way too harsh and downright mean sometimes in posts about TGM. I was a fan of the UG before TGM came along and bought it every time I went to WDW (and have bought other UG's for other cities). After using TGM last summer and seeing some of Len's negative posts - not just negative but mean-spirited - I won't buy the UG again. I don't mean just his most recent posts but many posts I've seen since last summer are not right. They should be removed from the boards IMHO, but I guess they won't since he is a sponsor.

I have defended TGM here on the boards and also told him about Len's negative and, in my opinion, outright wrong, posts. I have no affiliation with TGM except being a customer and a very happy one at that.

I hope Len will stick to the POSITIVE - noting the good things about his approach - he has many positive things to offer. If he was a user of the UG and TGM and just posting his opinion of it I wouldn't care. Since he is a representative of the UG and not just a tourist like the rest of us he has to hold himself to a different standard when it comes to commenting on other touring plans in my opinion.

 

[always quiet]

I have never used UG but I do use many other sources to help me plan my days in the parks....Tourguide Mike, Passporter, the DIS, wdwmagic.com..... Touring plans change each time I go as the kids are getting bigger each year and interests change. Also, the amount of rehab that WDW does plays a big part in it too. I LOVE Mike's secrets and tips that only a professional tourguide (with personal, hands on experience WITH Disney as an employee) can give. I signed up with him over a year ago now (and my trip is still 6 months away....HEY!! 6 months from today, I'll be checking into Fort Wilderness!!!! ) and still find so much information. It changes whenever disney adds something or takes something away. Books that are published can not change their information, unless, of course, they publish another edition, at which time, that will ALSO be out of date! In my opinion, Mike is the way to go!!

 

[mic_key_mouse]

Good morning everyone

I wanted to see if there was any more activity on the thread, and since there is I thought I would add a few comments

Len and I exchanged a few emails last night, and I am certain that this 'is water under the bridge'. I am hopeful that from this point on we can all 'take the high road' and post positive thoughts. That would really, really be appreciated- as the disagreement between Len and I has been resolved amicably

Blessings to all
mic_key_mouse

 

[Castillo Mom]

Thank you Len for offering your apology. It's nice to see that we can behave as adults, hats off to you. Have a great day everyone!

 

[scootron]

I used Passporter, UG and Tourguide Mike, as well as the Boards to help plan my family trip in May to WDW. All were helpful, all had pluses and minuses. The negative in UG's MK touring plan, IMO, was the zig-zagging all over the park (which they warn you it does). It was not practical for my family due to DH having bad knees and a bad back (not bad enough to rent an ECV, but close). I just used all the best info from each source and found that we were able to do almost everything we wanted to do at all four parks (and elsewhere) in the 6 days we were there. I have no doubt that had I not researched and planned, we would have been among the hoards there at the same time we were who thought the lines were awful and wasted countless hours standing in them. I would recommend all sources to anyone who asked me, and tell them I would recommend at least using two separate sources instead of just relying on one.

 

[lentesta]

Hi folks,

Thanks very much. I called TourGuideMike last night to apologize in person. While I won't say we're friends yet, I think it's safe to say we both like each other more than we did this time yesterday.

After speaking with Mike, and in his defense, I don't think he realized the word 'minimize' and its variants has a specific meaning in the context of wait times. It is the curse of my people (that's engineers, in case you're wondering) to always assume that everyone automatically knows what we're talking about. Instead of letting this drive me nuts, I should have picked up the phone to call him a long time ago to get it resolved. There's a lesson in here about communication, I'm sure. Anyway, I expect Mike and I will keep in touch going forward.

While I've tried to apologize to every person in this thread via e-mail I may have offended, I don't think I can get to everyone. (D'oh!) Selket, and anyone else I may have missed, please accept my apologies. Last post on this subject, I promise.

Sincerely,

Len

 

[SnackyStacky]

Glad to see everyone is playing nicely again.

Remember folks - it's been resolved! Refrain from personal attacks, and keep it clean!

Don't MAKE me lock this thread!!!

 

[scootron]

Len,

Could you enlighten us please? It seems clear, but pehaps it isn't, given your post. I'm not trying to "egg something on", just trying to learn something here.

Alice

 

[jcemom]

Wow! How did I miss this one? LOL

To answer the OP's question, I think it depends upon who is on the trip and what your goal is. If you have small children/mixed age groups or want a more relaxing plan that doesn't skip around much, then I would recommend TGM's plans. They may not be as efficient as far as squeezing the most attractions into the least amount of time, but they "flow" very well and manage to hit everything that you're interested in. If you're a group of older kids/teens/adults and you want to see/do as much as possible then I would go with the UG's plans (though I must say I haven't tried them yet personally). They are more "commando" but appear to allow you to see the most attractions in the amount of time you have, as long as you're willing to jump around a bit to minimize waiting in lines.

My next trip will be just DD (3) and I and I will be using TGM's plans, the following trip will be with my boys (12 and 13) and we will use the UG's plans.

If you want to order custom touring plans from Len, as long as you know exactly what you want to see and do, I think those would be great for anyone. I'm sure I will be ordering at least one for each of the aforementioned trips for those "odd" days where we will be arriving late or on a holiday.

Len has helped me with many issues during my planning and I'm very grateful for it. I think he's a terrific guy!

I've also had some personal correspondence with Mike and think he's great as well!

So, I don't think it's really a matter of one plan being "better" than another, but rather which one is better for YOU!

 

[wdw4pwe]

TGM!

 

[lentesta]

Hi Alice,

No problem. When using the word minimize, I mean literally the definition found in a standard English dictionary, with no qualifications whatsoever. In my American Heritage Dictionary, it's "the lowest degree or amount reached or recorded."

More specifically, with respect to touring plans, I'm saying no person, book or other computer software exists (that I'm aware of) that can consistently produce a touring plan with fewer minutes of waiting in line than our computer software. I had a couple of really neat paragraphs typed up explaining my grad school work, academic publications and patents in this area, but it sounded too much like a commercial so I'll leave it off. Drop me a line if you'd like to talk about it more, though.

Again, and in Mike's defense, he seems like a nice guy who wasn't familiar with the definition of the word "minimize," especially to someone with a technical background in this field. But I should have checked with him first before posting a criticism. Lesson learned.

Len

 

[Selket]

The main reason why I've preferred TGM to the UG or the Touring Plans is that with young children I cannot follow a strict touring plan. It seems possible that a computer could give you a touring plan with the least wait times for attractions but what happens if somewhere between attractions 4 and 5 you have to stop what you're doing? My youngest has type 1 diabetes so what if we have to stop everything and treat a low for him or etc? Or he takes a nap in his stroller at an unexpected time? Or we end up eating earlier or later than what is in the plan? This is what perplexes me about the UG and the Touring Plans formed by Len T. Should a person with that situation not buy a Touring Plan or the UG? I think going way OP (off plan) could happen to anyone with children. I'd be curious to see Len's answer to this question if he is around - I've asked it before but didn't get an answer that I know of. I appreciate the apology btw.

TGM gives you a plan but educates on what attractions are good when and why and what parks and when is a good time to make a PS and why. I know what to do when I get "off schedule" with TGM or do a half day and so forth.

I would recommend that folks, especially if WDW is fairly new to them, buy both guides and maybe a Touring Plan and perhaps some others as well (like Passporter) and see which one fits them best.

(P.S.: Len, please don't call TGM anymore as I'm afraid you'll corrupt him with your scientific method of park touring )

 

[Baloo]

Hey gang!

Since we don't have a Debate Board anymore so I can move this post over there and y'all could have a good hash out about TGM and UG let me just post a reminder of a couple of the DIS GUIDLINES to refresh everyone's memories before this thread turns a bit harsh again!


3. NO FIGHTING: Several Internet news groups are marred by the actions of a few selfish people who turn an otherwise positive forum into a soap box for their anger issues. Internet newsgroups are not moderated, and therefore, anything goes. These boards are moderated in an effort to keep the discussions appropriate to the topic at hand. Those who feel they can not abide by these rules are welcome to read the posts on the board, and respond via email to the person who posted the message. Messages that are argumentative or sarcastic in nature will be deleted without discussion.

4. NO PERSONAL MESSAGES: These boards are not for exchanging personal messages with friends. For that, we suggest you use email or our Private Message system. If you have a personal comment for that person, please direct it to them via email or PM. If the use of the boards for personal messages continues, those messages will be deleted. Remember, if the message is not intended for EVERYONE, it does not belong on the boards!

THANKS!!!

 

[PKS44]

I am shocked at the vitriol generated over this thread and it is clear to me that it all arises out of miscommunication and erroneous assumptions and preconceived notions that people bring to the table... LOOK at these choice quotes to put the whole mess in context.

first the original POST:

originally posted by mamahauldrenJust wondering if anyone has used either of these touring plans. ...In Your opinion, which has been more beneficial to you?

Right off people start answering about this with THEIR OWN DEFINITION of BENEFICIAL...beneficial for what purpose, for whom? Here is a question for you... What is the beneficial temperature of water? It becomes obvious with this sort of question that it requires MORE INFO to answer, but that did not stop people from plunging right in with their own ideas of what is beneficial--for Len it is all about time as he makes clear in his posts...again a few select quotes

Originally posted by lentesta
... The touring plans in the Unofficial Guide are the very best available, and can save as much as five hours of standing in line per day....
I doubt seriously whether anyone's touring plans, including Tour Guide Mike's, can come close to saving as much time as ours.

Re-reading Len's post in that context it is clear he meant no malice towards anyone..he is talking about a measureable distinct endpoint--TIME--no subjectivity there==just like an engineer--looking at the tangible...and stating the conclusion that when it comes to saving TIME there is simply no way to do it as well as a system which MEASURES and compares all the possible ways the time can breakdown....

the TGM defenders including Mike are all talking much more intangible benefits and assuming that Len is claiming Mike's and others do not deliver on their promise when in fact they are talking about entirely different BENEFICIAL endpoints...

There is a lesson here if people choose to learn it...and it will help when replying to similar questions on these and other boards and in life in general....to quote from an episode with the late great Tony Randall in the Odd Couple TV show...NEVER ASSUME---it makes an A$$ out of U and ME...

Paul

ps-sometimes you are not aware of the assumptions you bring--words like beneficial, wrong/right, good/bad--those words are loaded with assumptions that not everyone will share with you...

 

[WebmasterPete]

Hi folks:

Just and FYI. The Unofficial Guide (as reported in our last newsletter), will be the official sponsor of this board. The only reason the design as not changed is we're working out some tech issues with it. I have to iterate to you that enjoy these boards that our official sponsors are critical to keeping them free, and allowing us to upgrade. As a matter of fact, the deal with UG justified the server upgrade that everyone seems to be very happy about (the return of the black dot, the return of search, and the improved speed). So, while you're free to disagree, and I don't want to enter in to the debate, i just wanted to make it clear that Len is only participating in a manner that is fully and completely appropriate for the sponsor of one of our boards.

Thanks,
Pete

 

[SeattleRedBear]

Originally posted by Selket
TGM gives you a plan but educates on what attractions are good when and why and what parks and when is a good time to make a PS and why. I know what to do when I get "off schedule" with TGM or do a half day and so forth.

As a newbie to DIS, I just want to say that this (and other threads) have made me aware of TGM and make me think I will probably use his service this year (in addition to UG). Since I haven't subscribed to TGM yet, I don't know *how* TGM provides you the information to get back 'on schedule' but if I remember correctly, UG does mention somewhere what the best and worst times are to ride specific attractions and a couple times they do recommend skipping attractions in order to catch up to the touring plan. The UG information could possibly be packaged in a slightly different way to make it more apparent, but the info is there in a fairly general form. As I said, I don't know how TGM presents this info to make it apparent to subscribers

 

[SoCalKDG]

Just wondering, but is it possible to have too many guides? I've read UG, loved it, have Birnbaums coming, been looking at buying passporter, and now I definitely want to check out TGM. Keep up the good work.

 

[MrsJ Henry]

Never possible to have too many guides!!!!