Torture At Guantanamo Bay

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Professor Mouse

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Both the UN and the New England Journal of Medicine have come out today with articles about torture at Guantanamo Bay. Both stories are very disturbing. First, here is the report from the New England Journal of Medicine. The New England Journal of Medicine has now jointed the Lancet in finding that US military doctors are participating in the torture at Guantanamo Bay. These are the two of the most important and well respected journals in the medical world. U.S. doctors linked to POW `torture'
Medical records compiled by doctors caring for prisoners at the U.S. detention camp at Guantanamo Bay are being tapped to design more effective interrogation techniques, says an explosive new report.

Doctors, nurses and medics caring for the approximately 600 prisoners at the U.S. naval base in Cuba are required to provide health information to military and CIA interrogators, according to the report in the respected New England Journal of Medicine.

"Since late 2003, psychiatrists and psychologists (at Guantanamo) have been part of a strategy that employs extreme stress, combined with behaviour-shaping rewards, to extract actionable intelligence from resistant captives," it states.

Such tactics are considered torture by many authorities, the authors note....

Using medical records to devise interrogation protocols crosses an ethical line, said Peter Singer, director of the University of Toronto's Joint Centre for Bioethics.

"The goal for the physician is to care for the sick, not to aid an interrogation," he said. "Patients are patients and prisoners are prisoners and mixing those two things on the part of physicians who work in prisons is actually quite dangerous. Physicians are there for the benefit of patients and if they are seen to be there for some other purpose, it really blurs what they're doing."

An Amnesty International Canada spokesman said the report gives serious pause to anyone who is following what happens at Guantanamo.

"This reinforces the necessity for a full, independent commission of inquiry into the detentions. What is going on and what rules are being violated," John Tackaberry said from Ottawa.

"The American government needs to accept its responsibility to expose what is actually happening and show the world they are following standards that are acceptable in terms of international law," he said.....

Mulugeta Abai, executive director of the Canadian Centre for Victims of Torture in Toronto, wasn't surprised by the journal report. "This is practised globally," he said. "This is very frustrating. A superpower that is considered a leader in many ways is losing its moral authority now, completely."

The New England Journal of Medicine is the second respected journal to criticize U.S. interrogation techniques.

The British medical journal The Lancet reported in August, 2004, that U.S. military doctors violated medical ethics as part of the interrogation regime at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison.

"Not only were (they) aware of human rights abuses, they were actually complicit in them," University of Minnesota professor Steven Miles, who wrote the report, told the Toronto Star's Sandro Contenta. A Lancet editorial urged health-care workers to "now break their silence."
Here is the story about the UN. U.N. Uncovers Torture at Guantanamo Bay
GENEVA - U.N. human rights experts said Thursday they have reliable accounts of detainees being tortured at the U.S. base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The experts also said Washington had not responded to their latest request to check on the conditions of terror suspects at the facility in eastern Cuba. That request was made in April....

The experts, who report to U.N. bodies on different human rights issues, said their request for a visit was "based on information, from reliable sources, of serious allegations of torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of detainees, arbitrary detention, violations of their right to health and their due process rights."

"Many of these allegations have come to light through declassified (U.S.) government documents," they said.

Manfred Nowak, the U.N. special investigator on torture, said his team needed full access to Guantanamo's facilities and prison population, but the United States refused to guarantee him the right to speak to detainees in private.

"We deeply regret that the government of the United States has still not invited us to visit those persons arrested, detained or tried on grounds of alleged terrorism or other violations," the experts said in their statement.

The experts said they were expressing their misgivings because "the lack of a definitive answer despite repeated requests suggests that the United States is not willing to cooperate with the United Nations human rights machinery on this issue."
Together, these stories show that as far as the medicial community and the rest of the world is concern, torture is being conducted at Guantanamo Bay.
 
I would agree that the first article is disturbing. As a health acre provider, your job is to care for the patient, period. And keep perosnal beliefs/feelings out of it.

As far as the second article...I am always suspicious of quoted "reliable sources". Reliable by whose standards? I don't practice anonymity. If I have something to say, I say it with my name attached to it.I expect others to do the same.
 

Prof,

Those are disturbing articles. But don't you know that opinions from Canada, the UN, Britain, and the "acedemic elite" are worthless here in the good ol' USA? :rolleyes1
 
BunsenH said:
Prof,

Those are disturbing articles. But don't you know that opinions from Canada, the UN, Britain, and the "acedemic elite" are worthless here in the good ol' USA? :rolleyes1
I thought that the New England Journal of Medicine was still published here in the United States. You may use that arguement to justify ignoring the Lancet but the NEJM is about as American as you can get.
 
Professor Mouse said:
I thought that the New England Journal of Medicine was still published here in the United States. You may use that arguement to justify ignoring the Lancet but the NEJM is about as American as you can get.

Yeah, but you know all them New ENGLANDers ain't nuthin' but a bunch of elitist LIBERALS...Ain't y'all been payin' no attention ?

;)
 
When Americans do it, it's called "interrogation". ;)
 
Whoa, I'm on your side, just bad at satire and smiley selection. Unless you response is also satirical, we need to get in sync.

The NEJM is indeed a distinguished US publication. However, the quotes in it are from sources in Toronto and Ottawa.

On with the show!
 
I'm a little surprised that the NEJM reported this. From what I've seen they stay out of political issues. Perhaps the charges will be taken a little more seriously since they are in such a distinguished publication.

BunsenH--I got what you meant. NEJM would be considered the "academic elite" and from the Northeast to boot.
 
I guess after Sept. 11, I just can't get worked up about terrorists that are in prison and our treatment of them. I believe we've been pretty gentle about the whole thing, actually.
 
Disney01 said:
I guess after Sept. 11, I just can't get worked up about terrorists that are in prison and our treatment of them. I believe we've been pretty gentle about the whole thing, actually.

That's some pretty terrible thinking right there. The kind of ignorant thinking that could end up getting us into to yet another attack IMO. :sad2:
 
Disney01 said:
I guess after Sept. 11, I just can't get worked up about terrorists that are in prison and our treatment of them. I believe we've been pretty gentle about the whole thing, actually.

How does one respond to this type of comment? :confused3 State facts? Appeal to compassion? Turn away? :confused3

Views like this make me tired.
 
BunsenH said:
Prof,

Those are disturbing articles. But don't you know that opinions from Canada, the UN, Britain, and the "acedemic elite" are worthless here in the good ol' USA? :rolleyes1

:rotfl:

Don't forget Amnesty International guys!

Has the Red Cross been allowed into this chop shop? Or will it compromise the entire USA military?



Rich::
 
dcentity2000 said:


:rotfl:

Don't forget Amnesty International guys!

Has the Red Cross been allowed into this chop shop? Or will it compromise the entire USA military?



Rich::
The Red Cross has been allowed in but the Red Cross does not issue public reports. As part of the deal to gain access to the POWs or detainees, the Red Cross only makes reports to the country holding the prisoners and does not make public statements. If the Red Cross made any such statement, then the US govt would likely treat the Red Cross like the UN and deny further access.

The fact that Amesty International, the UN and NEJM have all come out on the fact that torture is being used at Gitmo is telling.
 
Yes, it is concerning. But in the interest in accuracy.

1) The piece in the NEJM is not a piece BY the NEJM, but essentially a "letter to the editor" which has been peer reviewed. It is not the same as them sending out their "medical journalist" to go dig up the truth and publish an official position.

2) The piece in NEJM has one and only one reference to the word torture, and that is by way of quoting a previous allegation in its introductory paragraphs.

Again, it is concerning. But the fact that a piece about it appeared in NEJM is not a good reason to be particularly breathless about it.
 
Professor Mouse said:
The fact that Amesty International, the UN and NEJM have all come out on the fact that torture is being used at Gitmo is telling.

Many people view the UN as a slow, lazy dinosaur; this news should shock them more than it shocks me.

Why?

Because here we have something major enough to wake that slow, lazy dinosaur up.



Rich::
 
Professor Mouse said:
I thought that the New England Journal of Medicine was still published here in the United States. You may use that arguement to justify ignoring the Lancet but the NEJM is about as American as you can get.

"About as American as you can get", meaning that it is published in the United States. It still reflects one author's opinion and his conclusions. The editorial board of the NEJM is not known for having a conservative opinion. Frankly, Time magazine, about as left of center as most liberal newspapers, had an account of the "torture" of the 20th high jacker. Of course they attempted to make the treatment sound dreadful but it didn't sound so dreadful to me, particularly when this guy was thwarted from flying a plane into another one of our buildings on 9/11. He had information. I depend upon our intelligence agencies to get that information, particularly if it will save American lives. If that isn't okay with the rest of the world. Too bad.
 
chadfromdallas said:
That's some pretty terrible thinking right there. The kind of ignorant thinking that could end up getting us into to yet another attack IMO. :sad2:
What can get us into another attack is to do nothing. In fact, I would guess that is what got us into the original attack in the first place. A lot of ignoring attacks went on for 8 years prior to 9/11.
 
DawnCt1 said:
If that isn't okay with the rest of the world. Too bad.

So much for the democratic world and rule of the majority!



Rich::
 
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