Top of the World Lounge at Bay Lake Tower at Contemporary Resort - *2 New Parties Added! “Enchantment at the Top” & New “Bound to Be Bad” Dates Added

[achinforsomebacon]

Of course, DVD didn't have to change the product to make direct different than resale. But they did and they did it for a reason…it makes them more money and honestly, that is the whole purpose of it all.

While it makes DVD more money, I'm curious if it makes Disney more money in the long run. Direct wasn't worth it to us so it was resale or nothing. No DVC means our 2+ trips per year become maybe every other year or less. Not that our individual spending on meals, souvenirs, etc is much but across the board, it adds up. Additionally, all the changes being made by DVD and just Disney in general makes it hard to speak about anything Disney related with much positivity. That can't be helping DVD sell contracts.

It just seems like most of the changes lately are very short-sighted and geared towards the profitability of a particular division, without regard to how it impacts Disney as a whole. And maybe that's the direction they've been given. Increase YOUR bottom line at all costs. That seems like something Chapek would be behind.

 

[Sandisw]

While it makes DVD more money, I'm curious if it makes Disney more money in the long run. Direct wasn't worth it to us so it was resale or nothing. No DVC means our 2+ trips per year become maybe every other year or less. Not that our individual spending on meals, souvenirs, etc is much but across the board, it adds up. Additionally, all the changes being made by DVD and just Disney in general makes it hard to speak about anything Disney related with much positivity. That can't be helping DVD sell contracts.

It just seems like most of the changes lately are very short-sighted and geared towards the profitability of a particular division, without regard to how it impacts Disney as a whole. And maybe that's the direction they've been given. Increase YOUR bottom line at all costs. That seems like something Chapek would be behind.

Each division of Disney has its own profit and loss and only worries about their own goals. It’s been that way forever…

To a certain extent they are intertwined, but each still is responsible for their own product.

As I shared, look at the AP. DPEP isn’t selling it to DVC owners. DVD can’t force them to. I’d bet a lot of money they wish they could because that is the one perk that most of value.

But so far, DPEP hasn’t changed their decision so they obviously aren’t concerned how it may or may not be impacting DVD sales because in the end, it’s their own numbers that are a priority to them, not DVDs sales numbers.

If, at any point DVD can’t make a profit selling DVC, DVC expansion will stop. The building of Poly tower means they believe DVC is still a money maker.

And if I had to guess, Disney must have been happy with whatever deal they cut with DVD for making TOTWL an exclusive membership extras DVC spot.

 

[Sandisw]

Yeah, I get it now. And I get the EPCOT lounge restriction because opening that up to all DVC members likely would kill the value of the thing. But taking away totwl access from BLT owners and paying guests is the hill I guess I'll die on! I just think it's wrong and cheap and petty and offers no extra benefit other than to feel special and superior and exclusive. Why can't DVD just say hey as an extra perk you get access to totwl and leave it at that? Is someone gonna go resale instead of direct if they find out BLT owners are also allowed?

ETA - By the way, what exactly is moonlight magic and how is it different from extended evening or whatever all deluxe guests get? I understand you can enter the park without a ticket after a certain hour right? what else is involved?

Moonlight Magic is a free after hours event. You get to enjoy the park at night, don’t need a park ticket, unless you want to enter earlier in the day. You get free snacks, free ice cream, and a chance to meet rare characters that aren’t out and about.

It’s limited so nit everyone gets to go..it sells out fast…but it’s a nice event

You just nailed it on the head….TOTWL being an exclusive spot for certain DVC owners is exactly why it is an added benefit to the program.

Sure, it’s not new for those of us who have owned since before it closed , but it will be for those who buy tomorrow from DVD because as a cash guest, they couldn’t visit or for any resale owner who has bought since it closed and now adds on direct.

For both those types of buyers, they do get something new.

But curious, if your resale broker had made it clear to you that you had no right as an owner to access to TOTWL, that it wasn’t part of DVC and your contract…would you have still bought there?

 

[BeachClub2014]

In the end this is my thought. My dues and contract are the same. The truth is direct is just easier to acquire and that alone is hard to market versus the difference in cost so perks are needed to formulate more differences. This argument cannot be won because in the end DVC needs to force a reason for there to be a markup so they have to slight a resale contract somehow besides naturally it being harder to acquire.

Except that isn't necessarily true. The dues may be the same, but the contracts are not. Points purchased directly from DVD are unrestricted points and points purchased via resale are restricted. That's really the whole crux of the issue, right?

You are spot-on in saying that the argument cannot really be won. DVD sets the rules and requires a buyer to acknowledge those rules when purchasing the product. Some owners may like the rules, while others, not so much.

 

[Fauntleroy]

The villains theming seems a bit strange to me - although I’m honestly not sure why I feel that way. I guess with the Contemporary and Bay Lake Tower retro/futuristic theming there are limited characters that would be perfectly themed (thinking Alice and Mary Poppins at VGF or Timon at AKL). I’m a new DVC direct member (just joined this year), so I don’t know if there is some type of tie to villains for DVC that I’m not aware of. I did notice from some vlogs I watched of Moonlight Magic that those had a villains theme also…

Apparently, Disney's been wanting to play the "villains" card for some time- and I guess TOTWL provided the next, best opportunity to try it out. Also, as you say, BLT/Contemporary provides more of a "blank canvas" thematically than the other MK resorts too (though the Contemporary does have an "Incredibles" tie-in). Should be interesting/looking forward to what they come up with- as it is a special space.

 

[Sandisw]

Except that isn't necessarily true. The dues may be the same, but the contracts are not. Points purchased directly from DVD are unrestricted points and points purchased via resale are restricted. That's really the whole crux of the issue, right?

You are spot-on in saying that the argument cannot really be won. DVD sets the rules and requires a buyer to acknowledge those rules when purchasing the product. Some owners may like the rules, while others, not so much.

Just to clarify, the contracts are the same. The rules for trading within BVTC are different. It’s a small but important element IMO.

Perks are incidental benefits and not even part of the contract. They never have been…and they can’t be which is why dues can’t fund them.

So, DVD doesn’t Include the perks in your contract, even when you buy from them.

They simply give them to you, as owner, ina seperare agreement, which you also sign, but make them non transferable.

Again, seems like semantics, but it’s why they can put limits on them.

Its why owners who buy the L14 resorts can’t be restricted from trading to other L14, because the POS for those resorts entered BVTC with different rules than RIV, which entered with restrictions. .

 

[BeachClub2014]

Just to clarify, the contracts are the same. The rules for trading within BVTC are different. It’s a small but important element IMO.

Perks are incidental benefits and not even part of the contract. They never have been…and they can’t be which is why dues can’t fund them.

So, DVD doesn’t Include the perks in your contract, even when you buy from them.

They simply give them to you, as owner, ina seperare agreement, which you also sign, but make them non transferable.

Again, seems like semantics, but it’s why they can put limits on them.

Its why owners who buy the L14 resorts can’t be restricted from trading to other L14, because the POS for those resorts entered BVTC with different rules than RIV, which entered with restrictions. .

Totally agree that it's likely a matter of semantics. I was mainly pointing out that there are fundamental differences in the rules and applicability between resale and directly purchased points, and that DVD (within the boundaries of Florida law) gets to determine those rules.

 

[Sandisw]

Totally agree that it's likely a matter of semantics. I was mainly pointing out that there are fundamental differences in the rules and applicability between resale and directly purchased points, and that DVD (within the boundaries of Florida law) gets to determine those rules.

I do realize that but given how many had no idea this could even happen, or thought dues funded it, I think explaining it in detail helps.

As you said, decisions DVD makes is up to them, but even a direct buyer needs to know perks for them can go away too.

Doesn’t mean it needs to change a point of view, or make someone less upset…those valid frustrations especially when no one really explained it to them before choosing To buy.

 

[tjkraz]

ETA - By the way, what exactly is moonlight magic and how is it different from extended evening or whatever all deluxe guests get? I understand you can enter the park without a ticket after a certain hour right? what else is involved?

Moonlight Magic is basically the equivalent of Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party or Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party that is free for DVC owners. There aren't any unique parades or fireworks, but all of the other elements are present. Crowds are low, meaning short wait times for attractions. There are typically rare character meets which are not found on other park days. Free snacks, DJ dance party, etc.

It's completely free--no theme park admission is required. Compared to MNSSHP and MVMCP, it represents a value of about $150 per person.

Attendance is limited and even at it's peak, DVC only hosts the events about 1x per month. It requires a little luck to stumble across one, unless you're flexible enough to adjust trip dates. The most notice DVC has ever given for the schedule was announcing dates in October or November for the following calendar year.

Financially, Moonlight Magic and the AP discount are the two perks which will most rapidly justify paying more for direct points. We've been to several of the MM events and have another planned this year. Combined with several years of AP discounts and some modest accounting for shopping & dining savings, we've easily saved $5000+ over the years via DVC discounts. But neither MM nor AP discounts are guaranteed, meaning there's a leap of faith involved if buying in today. If one is buying DVC with every intention of using it for the next 30-40 years, not having access to the perks is leaving a lot of little trip-enhancers on the table.

 

[BL2020]

It will be interesting if this is the final status of this perk. While DVD is apparently subsidizing it now, the vendor is still expecting a certain volume of sales. This venue was initially limited to BLT owners I believe, then opened to all DVC. Was it also opened to anyone staying at the resort? I don't remember for certain, but thought it was. If the volume is not what the vendor expects it may be renegotiated to increase sales. For example opening it to those with current reservations at BLT would make sense and still limiting additional access to direct owners who are not staying at the resort.

 

[TraderStitch]

Possibly included for Blue card members but $100 a year for White card members? That way it is the best of both worlds. They get most of the clients back and a huge bump in revenue to offset TOWL expenses.

 

[I Run Long]

I've never been to TOTWL so I have no skin in the game. Resale owner btw - anyway, I can remember watching the DIS team commenting that it was never really busy up there. I am sure that will change with the re-opening much like other products have - it's in a way, shiny and new. But once the shine wears off will it become a dead space? It does seem odd to have a "perk" which is simply the ability to go into a space and spend money. To me, and to me only, it would be like limiting Geyser Point to direct members. I know for some the ability to go to TOTWL is really important to them and in the end comes off as DVD being petty. I just shrug and figure if they don't want my money, fine, I'll go to another terrific lounge and spend it there. I've saved a ton of money going resale and am very happy with that.

 

[Paul Stupin]

It will be interesting if this is the final status of this perk. While DVD is apparently subsidizing it now, the vendor is still expecting a certain volume of sales. This venue was initially limited to BLT owners I believe, then opened to all DVC. Was it also opened to anyone staying at the resort? I don't remember for certain, but thought it was. If the volume is not what the vendor expects it may be renegotiated to increase sales. For example opening it to those with current reservations at BLT would make sense and still limiting additional access to direct owners who are not staying at the resort.

But is there any precedent allowing WDW hotel guests access to a DVC member perk just because it’s on-site? We just got back from Aulani, where on Monday mornings there was a special get together on the back lawn just for DVC members. Should all hotel guests have been allowed to attend, just because the back lawn is part of the hotel?

 

[wnielsen1]

Possibly included for Blue card members but $100 a year for White card members? That way it is the best of both worlds. They get most of the clients back and a huge bump in revenue to offset TOWL expenses.

I think you are missing a zero.

 

[Wiltony]

Man if this is the only change I'm pleasantly surprised. There was a lot of speculation that they were going to try to generate more revenue by charging a fee for anyone to get up there at any time, or make it so there were food/drink minimums, or every night was going to be a "hard ticketed" fireworks-type event or something, but it seems like they were just re-theming it, and are now including it for blue-card holders only now.

Could have been much, much worse. Looking forward to going back!

 

[DonMacGregor]

It will be interesting if this is the final status of this perk. While DVD is apparently subsidizing it now, the vendor is still expecting a certain volume of sales. This venue was initially limited to BLT owners I believe, then opened to all DVC. Was it also opened to anyone staying at the resort? I don't remember for certain, but thought it was. If the volume is not what the vendor expects it may be renegotiated to increase sales. For example opening it to those with current reservations at BLT would make sense and still limiting additional access to direct owners who are not staying at the resort.

But isn't that the whole point of a subsidy?

 

[TraderStitch]

I think you are missing a zero.

Gotta be enticing enough for most resale owners to jump onboard.

 

[wnielsen1]

Gotta be enticing enough for most resale owners to jump onboard.

They won't price it to entice resale owner participation. They will price it to entice resale owners buying direct.

 

[hilltopper152]

It will be interesting if this is the final status of this perk. While DVD is apparently subsidizing it now, the vendor is still expecting a certain volume of sales. This venue was initially limited to BLT owners I believe, then opened to all DVC. Was it also opened to anyone staying at the resort? I don't remember for certain, but thought it was. If the volume is not what the vendor expects it may be renegotiated to increase sales. For example opening it to those with current reservations at BLT would make sense and still limiting additional access to direct owners who are not staying at the resort.

It just makes sense that if I am two floors away and have money, they would like me to spend that money. They can keep it exclusive for direct otherwise but get they may want to protect that identity and still lose money. After a few months and it settles down maybe they change tune slightly.

 

[Jenglish13]

Moonlight Magic is a free after hours event. You get to enjoy the park at night, don’t need a park ticket, unless you want to enter earlier in the day. You get free snacks, free ice cream, and a chance to meet rare characters that aren’t out and about.

It’s limited so nit everyone gets to go..it sells out fast…but it’s a nice event

You just nailed it on the head….TOTWL being an exclusive spot for certain DVC owners is exactly why it is an added benefit to the program.

Sure, it’s not new for those of us who have owned since before it closed , but it will be for those who buy tomorrow from DVD because as a cash guest, they couldn’t visit or for any resale owner who has bought since it closed and now adds on direct.

For both those types of buyers, they do get something new.

But curious, if your resale broker had made it clear to you that you had no right as an owner to access to TOTWL, that it wasn’t part of DVC and your contract…would you have still bought there?

I get the exclusive perk, my point is does it really lose its luster if they made it just slightly less exclusive by allowing resort guests to also access a facility located within the same resort? Again I'm new and I've never even stepped foot inside totwl or BLT for that matter! Does the lounge get too crowded if all have access? But even if that is the case, is that really going to push someone away from a direct purchase and into resale? Or is someone like me that is intent at owning at BLT, supposed to suddenly say oh ok I'll pay DVD $265 per point instead of $150-170 per point by resale so I can visit a lounge with nice views? And yes, I know there's much more than just totwl access involved , but the point still stands, in changing the status of this one venue did they really have to take away access from other guests staying at the resort for it to matter as a blue card benefit? If you're a current or prospective blue card member, is the exclusion of non blue card members from totwl important to you? If yes, then I'm sorry but I think you deserve a little of the teasing and mockery for being a little snobbish that some of us are dishing out.

The more we dissect the whole matter the more upset I get at Disney in general for allowing DVD to take it and make it exclusive. Disney gave away a perk to its paying guests at contemporary and BLT, I assume they could've required DVD to maintain access for those guests but didn't care or bother to. I'm also assuming contemporary guests previously had access too but I could be wrong about that.