Too big for stroller--the website

[maxiesmom]

That's why IT IS NOT A RULE.

Instead, as a guest you agree that Disney has the right to refuse your admission. You grant them that right. It could be for ANY reason. Any at all.

If you aren't comfortable with it, then you don't buy the ticket. It isn't forced upon you. But make no mistake...that's the deal when you enter WDW.

Ok, so if it is not a rule, how is anyone to know that taking a child's picture could cause you to have a negative interaction with a CM? You are making Disney sound like a police state. I don't for one minute believe that CMs can arbitrarily decide who stays and who can be kicked out of the parks, just on their mood. Which seems to be what you are saying. They could walk up to grandpa and say Hey, I don't like the looks of you. Leave.

Don't the CMs have a list or guidelines to follow?

And is there a difference between what would cause Disney to refuse admission and what would make them eject someone from the parks?

 

[MsPeggySue911]

Another funny site: http://peopleofdisney.org/

OMGGGGGG that's too funny. You have got to watch the fat people video. I couldn't stop LOL'ing.

 

[jayandstacey]

Ok, so if it is not a rule, how is anyone to know that taking a child's picture could cause you to have a negative interaction with a CM? You are making Disney sound like a police state. I don't for one minute believe that CMs can arbitrarily decide who stays and who can be kicked out of the parks, just on their mood. Which seems to be what you are saying. They could walk up to grandpa and say Hey, I don't like the looks of you. Leave.

Don't the CMs have a list or guidelines to follow?

And is there a difference between what would cause Disney to refuse admission and what would make them eject someone from the parks?

To answer your questions:

refusing admission = ejecting them from the parks, the only difference being where the refusal happened. If they refuse your admission while you're in the park, you have to leave.

I'm sure the CMs have guidelines to follow, and I'm sure we'll never see them intentionally. I'm also sure that any questionable behavior that may result in a guest's ejection would be brought to a manager. The reason:
- they are better trained and have a higher confidence level from Disney management than a front line CM
- they are fewer in number, thus more consistent in the overall approach.

So what keeps Disney CM managers from running amuck with all this power? The fact that Disney is a business. If word got out that random people have been kicked out for no apparent reason, Disney's less likely to sell tickets tomorrow. It isn't a sustainable business practice. So they are trained, and one of the ways to really weed out the bad guys is to let a guest make the wrong 'right' before being kicked out.

in the worst case scenario of a guest being falsely accused, that guest would likely agree to delete any photos that appear out of the ordinary. Meanwhile, the manager is getting a good look at the overall pattern of those photos - and just as the supreme court defines pronography, 'they know it when they see it.'

Sorry it isn't more black and white. But again, if you were a guest that was somehow violated by another guest... the LAST thing you'd want to hear from a CM is "sorry, what they did isn't technically against the rules, so there's nothing I can do."

Disney always reserves the right to do something as a protection to vast majority of guests who aren't bad guys.

 

[jayandstacey]

Ok, so if it is not a rule, how is anyone to know that taking a child's picture could cause you to have a negative interaction with a CM? You are making Disney sound like a police state.

No, not a police state, rather a place where they have the most rights as the owners of the property.

But yes, it comes pretty close to a police state. It is what makes it so good - that they are so dilgent about enforcement of their rights so as to maximize the 'good' guest's experience.

I've been in parks with much less such enforcement. I avoid those parks.

 

[jayandstacey]

Ok, so if it is not a rule, how is anyone to know that taking a child's picture could cause you to have a negative interaction with a CM?

And to answer this question:

How do you know when someone else is making you uncomfortable? or you see wrong being done? Or when you feel in danger?

You just do - you know it when it happens, and no list, no matter how long, will cover all the possibilities of what could make you feel those things. So yes, it is somewhat subjective. Thus all the training managers have.

One thing that's guarateed though - if a GUEST complains about another guest, that other guest will get scrutiny no matter what. Doesn't mean they'll be kicked out, but the whole point is to keep the majority of guests happy and Disney profitable.

 

[Altoqueenkelly]

That's because they were taken out back and fed to the alligators before anyone else saw what was happening.

I think the issue here is not solely that strangers are unintentionally photographing other people's kids, it's that it's INTENTIONAL, and it's what they are doing with the photos. Even if you HAVE the "right" to take a photo of someone's kid solely for the purpose of posting it online to mock them, it doesn't mean Disney has to protect that right. It also makes you a jerk. Come on, really. Adults? Fine. But don't bully kids online. We're old enough to know better.

If some dude came up to you (general you, here) at Disney World and aimed a camera at your rack (chest! bosom! breasteses!), would you be happy if you found it on a blog called "Saggy Jugs of Fantasyland?"

I feel like people are being deliberately obtuse here.

I don't think disneymegs has said anything even remotely unreasonable, and she certainly has not implied that Disney CMs are profiling. Give me a break. *I* am the one who used the word creepy, because yes, I do find the idea of a random guy (even a "non-creepy" one) going in to BBB to photograph children very odd. And if this had happened to my daughter while she was in there, I damn sure would have pulled a CM aside. I don't know what parent wouldn't. I'm not a helicopter parent. I have a potty mouth and a filthy sense of humor. Certainly not a prude. But if I'm sitting there watching my girl get her hair and makeup done, and some guy comes up, points a camera at her without asking me, or without explanation? Hell to the no.

THANKYOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been saying THIS since the START of this thread!!!!!!

 

[bigwino]

Ok, so if it is not a rule, how is anyone to know that taking a child's picture could cause you to have a negative interaction with a CM?:

Common sense, when the child is not yours or with your group. That's how.

And even if you can't figure out that this might not lead DIRECTLY to a negative interaction with a CM, surely your common-sense-o-meter must realize that if noticed, such action would, at a minimum, be likely to lead to a negative interaction with the child's guardian (which might, in turn, lead to a negative interaction with a CM). Because it's presumptively weird and yes, creepy, to take a picture of a kid you don't know, on purpose. And to be clear, that's where said child is noticeably and obviously the focal point of the picture.

God, I need to step away from this train wreck. Seriously.

 

[designermv]

Ok, so if it is not a rule, how is anyone to know that taking a child's picture could cause you to have a negative interaction with a CM?:

Common sense, when the child is not yours or with your group. That's how.

And even if you can't figure out that this might not lead DIRECTLY to a negative interaction with a CM, surely your common-sense-o-meter must realize that if noticed, such action would, at a minimum, be likely to lead to a negative interaction with the child's guardian (which might, in turn, lead to a negative interaction with a CM). Because it's presumptively weird and yes, creepy, to take a picture of a kid you don't know, on purpose. And to be clear, that's where said child is noticeably and obviously the focal point of the picture.

God, I need to step away from this train wreck. Seriously.

Quoting can be tricky business. And I totally get and agree with what you are saying. I mean, regarding photos....not about you needing to step away from the train wreck.

 

[bigwino]

Quoting can be tricky business. And I totally get and agree with what you are saying. I mean, regarding photos....not about you needing to step away from the train wreck.

LOL! Designermv, I will buy you a glass of wine/beer/whatever-you-like-to drink anytime!

 

[ses1230]

Black and white policies are impossible, because what if someone does something horrific that whoever wrote the black and white policies didn't think of? You're making it sound like all 60,000+ CM's reserve the right to throw a guest out. It's not that simple. Managers and security are in place for a reason. We warn people not to take pictures of individual children without parental consent at the BBB, so yes the guests are aware of the rule. Obviously Disney does a good job of regulating things, so I don't see why it needs to be debated.

In my experience, disneymegs is right on with this one.

I was at BBB when my older daughter was 3.5. There were 2 men in there with a camera, taking random pictures. I didn't even notice because I was so focused on my DD. The FGIT whispered to me "are they with you?", as she did to the other parents around. Within a matter of seconds, it seemed, a manager/supervisor and 2 Disney security guards appeared. They asked the men what they were doing to which they responded, "just taking pictures". The men were escorted out of BBB by security, and I was glad that they (FGIT) were on top of it.

 

[jayandstacey]

In my experience, disneymegs is right on with this one.

I was at BBB when my older daughter was 3.5. There were 2 men in there with a camera, taking random pictures. I didn't even notice because I was so focused on my DD. The FGIT whispered to me "are they with you?", as she did to the other parents around. Within a matter of seconds, it seemed, a manager/supervisor and 2 Disney security guards appeared. They asked the men what they were doing to which they responded, "just taking pictures". The men were escorted out of BBB by security, and I was glad that they (FGIT) were on top of it.

So, I'll kick myself, but does FGIT stand for?

And this perfectly exemplifies the approach. I don't know Disney's internal policies but they are pretty easy to figure out:
1. Asess the situation directly with a common-sense-meter as suggested
2. Not sure? Ask the people who might be 'targets'.
3. Remove the suspects from the area
4. Deal with them by giving them a chance to show their story (not just tell it)
5. Kick them out if needed, take more action if warranted.

Note that 'common sense' works through these steps - at least four steps before a person is kicked out. I'd also imagine that an expulsion never happens at the hand of a single Disney employee, no matter how senior - I'm sure at least one other person is a part of the process both as a witness and as another layer of common sense.

 

[jayandstacey]

So, I'll kick myself, but does FGIT stand for?

Got it myself - Fairy Godmothers in Training. I assume these are the BBB employees.

 

[MightyGitis]

I kept quiet on this one for a while. But the real issue here is not children in strollers, it's whether or not you are okay with the idea of having a random picture snapped of you and then made fun of on the internet.

I've found this behavior despicable since it began with that People of WalMart page. I see on here there is now a People of Disney page, and it kind of makes me want to vomit.

We all have our bad moments, our embarrassing moments. How would you like it if one of those embarrassing moments was caught on candid camera and posted for the world to see? How would you feel if you happened to find a picture of yourself or your child on one of these blogs with people mocking you for what you were wearing? Or how your child happened to look in their stroller?

Of the children in these photos I would say less than 5% genuinely shouldn't be in them, the rest were probably caught at an unusual moment, or aren't as old as you have decided to believe they are. I've been going to Disney world since I was 5 and I know we had strollers in the park when we no longer used them at home. Why? Because after four hours of endless walking even my PARENTS were probably tired, and the last thing they needed was to attempt to carry me and my sister. We probably looked too big for our stroller too, but thank goodness that was before the internet.

How about you focus your damn cameras on your own party of people and the characters and let people live their lives as they see fit?

 

[Lisa x]

to all of your posts, I understood exactly what you were saying and I also understood that the only reason that you posted was to give peace of mind to all those who would not be happy having pictures taken of their children by just anybody!

I think its great what you do when you see a stranger photographing the children in BBB disneymegs....you can only do so much though and you only have one pair of eyes so it is inevitable that you cannot physically stop every single person doing the same thing!

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Actually, I believe what the CM poster said was that any CM who feels that the safety of a guest is at risk (yes, that includes strangers taking pictures of children), can contact a manager or Disney security. The manager or security CM can - and has - asked the guest to see pictures and delete any that were targeting children.

.

I have been asked by a manager and nothing happened. I shoot a lot on FILM so there is no way to delete a single photo.

If a parent gets in my face and acts inappropriately I just smile and walk away. If they ask my nicely what I am doing, I tell them. If after we speak they are uncomfortable I offer to send them the photo after I process the film. Some shots are so great I have received thank you notes.

There is no expectation of privacy in Disney.

 

[mom2rtk]

I have been asked by a manager and nothing happened. I shoot a lot on FILM so there is no way to delete a single photo.

If a parent gets in my face and acts inappropriately I just smile and walk away. If they ask my nicely what I am doing, I tell them. If after we speak they are uncomfortable I offer to send them the photo after I process the film. Some shots are so great I have received thank you notes.

There is no expectation of privacy in Disney.

THIS is what I meant by "sense of entitlement". That a random person thinks they should be able to take photos of YOUR child as the subject. Then say "If you're really nice, I'll send you a copy".

And to save you the trouble........... I'm not talking about catching someone's kid in a crowd. And I'm not talking about what's LEGAL.

I'm talking about what's decent, moral, and polite.

 

[YodaGirl]

I have been asked by a manager and nothing happened. I shoot a lot on FILM so there is no way to delete a single photo.

And I've seen people in "public" places be asked to relinquish their film. Be glad that didn't happen.

If a parent gets in my face and acts inappropriately I just smile and walk away. If they ask my nicely what I am doing, I tell them. If after we speak they are uncomfortable I offer to send them the photo after I process the film. Some shots are so great I have received thank you notes.

I would NEVER send you a thank you note for taking pictures of my children. You still would have the negative, and who knows how many copies that you could make?

Why should the parent have to approach you and ask what you are doing? How about you approach the parents and ask first?

There is no expectation of privacy in Disney.

The statement makes me think that you haven't read many of the previous posts.

I have no issue with my kids being in the background of random photos. There IS an expectation that random people don't single my child out as the subject of a picture. Why? Because as most good photographers know, you don't photograph subjects without their permission. No, not legally speaking, but as many others have said, because it's the right thing to do.

THIS is what I meant by "sense of entitlement". That a random person thinks they should be able to take photos of YOUR child as the subject. Then say "If you're really nice, I'll send you a copy".

And to save you the trouble........... I'm not talking about catching someone's kid in a crowd. And I'm not talking about what's LEGAL.

I'm talking about what's decent, moral, and polite.

Exactly!

 

[JB2K]

Oh, I get that.

If the photos were funny, I'd be laughing. Trust me. People of Walmart cracks me up. But, they really aren't that funny, imo.

I really bet you'd be laughing when you lose your job and find yourself browsing the Ramen noodles aisle at WM.

As for the strollers, yeah, I think it's hilarious...

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

THIS is what I meant by "sense of entitlement". That a random person thinks they should be able to take photos of YOUR child as the subject. Then say "If you're really nice, I'll send you a copy".

And to save you the trouble........... I'm not talking about catching someone's kid in a crowd. And I'm not talking about what's LEGAL.

I'm talking about what's decent, moral, and polite.

Wow talk about entitlement!! What makes any person decide what can happen in public? If someone is so concerned with privacy there are options - wear a mask, don't go out, get bodyguards to surround you, etc.

If your child is in a public place anyone can photograph them, stare at them, do a drawing of them etc.

Boggles my mind that you feel that is immoral.

 

[TLinden16]

I'm going to close this thread now.

Please note that the site in question had inapproprite language on the first page. When linking to a site, it must comply with DIS guidelines.