Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes are divorcing.

[Tiger926]

Nope. First of all, Tom Cruise never really appealed to me, pre-Scientology. Just didn't. Secondly, I haven't done a whole lot of reading up on him, or watching (listening) to "news" reports about him. What I have seen of him is the seriously creepy (in my opinion...the only opinion that matters to me as far as what *I* think about him) jumping on the couch, distorted laughing while professing his love, his sticking his nose into other people's mental health issues, his condescending "glib" statement to Matt Lauer, and in effect, anyone who thinks differently than himself, and those disturbing (IMO) videos of him talking about Scientology. So, yes, I've formed my opinions, to the extent that I could care, about him. This is a discussion board, so I'll take part in discussing him. Otherwise, no, Tom Cruise himself isn't of much importance to me.

Of course, *I* haven't studied cults, so I'm not as versed as you in deciding that no brainwashing occurred, but at the very least, I think she was "encouraged" to accept a certain way of life and she went with it for whatever reason...crush, pregnant, whatever. I think it makes perfect sense that someone would accept a certain way of life, and as a child got older, might start rethinking living that lifestyle for their child. Maybe that happened, maybe not. Who knows.

Bottom line...I think Tom's creepy because that's what I've seen...him acting creepy. All this other stuff just sort of "fits".

You are missing my point. You don't actually know him. You don't have a relationship with him. So, all of what you have based your opinion on is what you have seen or read about him. Sure, he jumped on a couch, so what?

I am by no means an expert on cults at all, so I am not an authority on whether she was brainwashed or not, but I do recall our professors making emphasis on the fact that brainwashed cult members usually don't act like Katie Holmes has, and in fact, they are hidden from the public. I think it's weird that so many people on here think that Tom Cruise or Scientology for that matter, has the ability to control people's minds. The whole thing is just bizarre to me...

Because it IS.

Anyone who doesn't "get" the disdain for Tom Cruise likely hasn't watched that insane Scientology video he did (the one with the faux Mission Impossible music in the background)...the one where he claimed "we" (as in Scientologists) are the authority on mental health and helping others. the one where he claimed that "we" (scientologists) are the most qualified/able to help someone in a crisis...like if he spotted an accident on the side of the road, HE would be the most qualified to help.

Watch and learn. And If you HAVE watched and you still think he's peachy-keen, well you're entitled to your opinion and apparently nothing will change it.

All kinds of people feel they are the authority on all kinds of things. That is alive and well here on the DIS on a daily basis. Do I agree with what he said about mental health? Nope. But Scientologists have no actual effect on any of the psychological world, so no need to worry much about that. I do worry that people may believe them and follow them to a point where they do harm to themselves, such as not taking their psychotropic meds, but there are many areas in life in which this is the case. It still doesn't make me hate the man, as those are his beliefs.

Seriously, I think it's because people are fearful and don't understand, and it's as simple as that. Many people don't get organized religion either, and they are also fearful of that.

As I said, I don't get the huge disdain for Tom Cruise based on the whole Scientology stuff. There are celebrities who have abused people or who have been shooting up drugs for years. I understand disdain in that respect, but just because someone doesn't agree with one's "religion"? I don't get that.

Many people have said that Tom Cruise works his butt off, has a good relationship with his kids and does charitable works, yet all of that is ignored because people are fearful of Scientology.

I don't know the man, so I can't comment one way or the other. And I also know that I can't base my opinion on what I have seen of him on TV or read in interviews.

Katie obviously is done with their marriage, and so I pray that things are worked out in a positive manner, as a young child is in the middle of this mess.

Tiger

 

[Jennasis]

You are missing my point. You don't actually know him. You don't have a relationship with him. So, all of what you have based your opinion on is what you have seen or read about him. Sure, he jumped on a couch, so what?

I am by no means an expert on cults at all, so I am not an authority on whether she was brainwashed or not, but I do recall our professors making emphasis on the fact that brainwashed cult members usually don't act like Katie Holmes has, and in fact, they are hidden from the public. I think it's weird that so many people on here think that Tom Cruise or Scientology for that matter, has the ability to control people's minds. The whole thing is just bizarre to me...



All kinds of people feel they are the authority on all kinds of things. That is alive and well here on the DIS on a daily basis. Do I agree with what he said about mental health? Nope. But Scientologists have no actual effect on any of the psychological world, so no need to worry much about that. I do worry that people may believe them and follow them to a point where they do harm to themselves, such as not taking their psychotropic meds, but there are many areas in life in which this is the case. It still doesn't make me hate the man, as those are his beliefs.

Seriously, I think it's because people are fearful and don't understand, and it's as simple as that. Many people don't get organized religion either, and they are also fearful of that.

As I said, I don't get the huge disdain for Tom Cruise based on the whole Scientology stuff. There are celebrities who have abused people or who have been shooting up drugs for years. I understand disdain in that respect, but just because someone doesn't agree with one's "religion"? I don't get that.

Many people have said that Tom Cruise works his butt off, has a good relationship with his kids and does charitable works, yet all of that is ignored because people are fearful of Scientology.

I don't know the man, so I can't comment one way or the other. And I also know that I can't base my opinion on what I have seen of him on TV or read in interviews.

Katie obviously is done with their marriage, and so I pray that things are worked out in a positive manner, as a young child is in the middle of this mess.

Tiger

So you haven't watched the video...

 

[Tiger926]

So you haven't watched the video...

Yup, I watched parts of the video (didn't have time to watch the whole thing).

He believes what he believes, just as so many others do. Your country is built on people having the ability to freely express their opinions, so I'm not getting why people don't allow him his beliefs too?

Perhaps Katie is divorcing because of Scientology, and if that is the case, then she has to look out for herself and most especially her daughter. Perhaps there are other reasons too...I am not so sure though that everything can be blamed on Tom's "religion".

Tiger

 

[EMom]

So you haven't watched the video...

Ahhhhh.....The video. Thanks for the reminder. I'll have to look that up again. But I'll wait until my asthma eases up, since watching that lunacy will surely bring on an attack due to uncontrollable laughter. Gotta breathe, ya know..........

Really, the spoof Jerry O'Connell (?) did was even better than the original.

 

[Jennasis]

Yup, I watched parts of the video (didn't have time to watch the whole thing).

He believes what he believes, just as so many others do. Your country is built on people having the ability to freely express their opinions, so I'm not getting why people don't allow him his beliefs too?

Perhaps Katie is divorcing because of Scientology, and if that is the case, then she has to look out for herself and most especially her daughter. Perhaps there are other reasons too...I am not so sure though that everything can be blamed on Tom's "religion".

Tiger

Who said he can't believe what he wants to? He can believe whatever he likes...he can believe fish fly and cows lay eggs if he likes...and I have the right to think he's a raving lunatic for his beliefs.

 

[alex9179]

I am by no means an expert on cults at all, so I am not an authority on whether she was brainwashed or not, but I do recall our professors making emphasis on the fact that brainwashed cult members usually don't act like Katie Holmes has, and in fact, they are hidden from the public. I think it's weird that so many people on here think that Tom Cruise or Scientology for that matter, has the ability to control people's minds. The whole thing is just bizarre to me...

Cult members aren't necessarily hidden. Isolated would be a better word. They may go through an indoctrination period that does use this technique, but afterwards the cult can use other methods to create that separation from influences that don't go along with their ideology. I do remember that early on in the relationship, her family made comments that insinuated something like that was happening because they felt cut off from her. Also, most cults don't have millions of dollars at their disposal in order to achieve their ends. It's certainly not a stretch to imagine that is what happened to Katie given the changes in her lifestyle and friends.

I don't pretend to know what happened, but I wouldn't discount the crazy version because I've read what former scientologists were put through when they left.

 

[JaneBanks]

Look on youtube for ex-scientologists. They talk about the brainwashing.

 

[mjantz]

Could someone link to the videos please? Thanks!!

 

[PaulaSB12]

You are missing my point. You don't actually know him. You don't have a relationship with him. So, all of what you have based your opinion on is what you have seen or read about him. Sure, he jumped on a couch, so what?

I am by no means an expert on cults at all, so I am not an authority on whether she was brainwashed or not, but I do recall our professors making emphasis on the fact that brainwashed cult members usually don't act like Katie Holmes has, and in fact, they are hidden from the public. I think it's weird that so many people on here think that Tom Cruise or Scientology for that matter, has the ability to control people's minds. The whole thing is just bizarre to me...



All kinds of people feel they are the authority on all kinds of things. That is alive and well here on the DIS on a daily basis. Do I agree with what he said about mental health? Nope. But Scientologists have no actual effect on any of the psychological world, so no need to worry much about that. I do worry that people may believe them and follow them to a point where they do harm to themselves, such as not taking their psychotropic meds, but there are many areas in life in which this is the case. It still doesn't make me hate the man, as those are his beliefs.

Seriously, I think it's because people are fearful and don't understand, and it's as simple as that. Many people don't get organized religion either, and they are also fearful of that.

As I said, I don't get the huge disdain for Tom Cruise based on the whole Scientology stuff. There are celebrities who have abused people or who have been shooting up drugs for years. I understand disdain in that respect, but just because someone doesn't agree with one's "religion"? I don't get that.

Many people have said that Tom Cruise works his butt off, has a good relationship with his kids and does charitable works, yet all of that is ignored because people are fearful of Scientology.

I don't know the man, so I can't comment one way or the other. And I also know that I can't base my opinion on what I have seen of him on TV or read in interviews.

Katie obviously is done with their marriage, and so I pray that things are worked out in a positive manner, as a young child is in the middle of this mess.

Tiger

Here is the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFBZ_uAbxS0
this is the second wife to bolt from scientology. An organisation that deliberately disrupts the bond between parent, helps abusers, persecutes anyone who leaves and forces their remaining family members to shun them. Who deny them medical help because they don't believe in it is not a religion its a cult and a particularly evil one. Remember the family who used children in flirty fishing you know the ones who used to be called the children of god.

 

[Tiger926]

Who said he can't believe what he wants to? He can believe whatever he likes...he can believe fish fly and cows lay eggs if he likes...and I have the right to think he's a raving lunatic for his beliefs.

Yes you do have that right!

Cult members aren't necessarily hidden. Isolated would be a better word. They may go through an indoctrination period that does use this technique, but afterwards the cult can use other methods to create that separation from influences that don't go along with their ideology. I do remember that early on in the relationship, her family made comments that insinuated something like that was happening because they felt cut off from her. Also, most cults don't have millions of dollars at their disposal in order to achieve their ends. It's certainly not a stretch to imagine that is what happened to Katie given the changes in her lifestyle and friends.

I don't pretend to know what happened, but I wouldn't discount the crazy version because I've read what former scientologists were put through when they left.

Yes, I guess isolated may be a better word. I just remember watching former cult members who had broken free use the word hidden a lot - hidden from friends, hidden from daily life, etc.

If this did happen, was Katie a willing participant? If she was, then that may be an entirely different discussion.

People latch onto certain beliefs for many reasons. There is a whole psychology behind conspiracy theories, and why people believe in them. Perhaps Katie liked what she heard about Scientology, perhaps she felt she really loved Tom and had to join to keep him, or perhaps she wanted to try out something new? If in fact, her decision to divorce has to do with Scientology, than it would be interesting to hear what has changed for her over the past 7+ years they have been together. More than likely it has something to do with Suri, as many are suggesting.

Tiger