Today's Oprah, "Money and Class distinctions"

[snowball22]

Did anyone watch today's Oprah show? The discussion was on "class". Which brings me to a few questions:

1. Does class matter and do you judge others in a lower or higher class than you? Do you ever on purpose hurt another person by trying to make them feel bad because they may not have something as nice as you?

2. Do you personally feel judged by those in your community based on your house, the car you drive, your wedding ring, and so forth?

3. Is your family comfortable in the "class" they are in?

4. Do you feel your family will ever move up to the next "class?"

5. What is your personal overall thoughts on "class?"

 

[AllyandJack]

1. Nope. The reason? I wasn't always comfortable. In fact, once I got comfortable, DH's company shut down and we were thrust into being "uncomfortable" once more. Just because you're doing OK now doesn't mean it can't all be taken away. Going around gloating is wrong. Not only can your comfort be taken away in a moment, but there is always someone better off than you are (well...unless you're Bill Gates!).

2. At work, sometimes. I'm a lawyer and I work a large firm. I hear comments that tick me off. One guy made a comment about getting a bonus that wasn't to his liking and he said something like "They treated me like I walk around here with a tool belt." My DH is in constuction and, guess what, he makes more than this snot does. But, I'm not going to chime in and say that. See #1 above!

3. We're very happy where we are. I can't complain. Do I jetset around? No. But, I will be a SAHM (if kids ever show up) and we have a nice house and don't have to worry a heck of a lot about bills (this is also attributed to good financial planning, not just our actual earning). What more can I ask for?

4. I'm not sure I want to....that tax bracket is pretty darn high!

5. I don't think about it too much. I don't look at someone and think "upper class" or "lower class". People's only responsibility is to take care of themselves and their family and quit worrying about what so-and-so has or the vacations so-and-so takes. It's also wrong to look at other people and think you have it better.....I know from experience that your "class" can be demoted as easily as it can be promoted.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

1. No
2. No
3. mostly
4. No
5. not sure.

 

[Christine]

1. Does class matter and do you judge others in a lower or higher class than you? Do you ever on purpose hurt another person by trying to make them feel bad because they may not have something as nice as you? Not that I'm conciously aware of. I know I would never intentionally hurt someone because I feel "above" them, nor would I try to make that obvious.

2. Do you personally feel judged by those in your community based on your house, the car you drive, your wedding ring, and so forth?Not at all.

3. Is your family comfortable in the "class" they are in? Fairly. I would like to be one "notch" up. Not for *status* or anything but just for more financial security.

4. Do you feel your family will ever move up to the next "class?" No, not at this point.

5. What is your personal overall thoughts on "class?"[/QUOTE] I don't really think about it much. It exists and I agree with the guy on Oprah who said it is becoming increasingly difficult to get out of one's class anymore. Kind of depressing that people can't really get ahead anymore.

The last thing I will say about the show is that the upper-class SAHM from Naperville got on my last nerve. I really "felt" for the lower middle class woman with the two kids. I really feel she was being a great mom to her boys.

 

[Sparx]

1. Does class matter and do you judge others in a lower or higher class than you? Do you ever on purpose hurt another person by trying to make them feel bad because they may not have something as nice as you?
It does not matter. I do not judge others because of what they do ro don't have.

2. Do you personally feel judged by those in your community based on your house, the car you drive, your wedding ring, and so forth?
People usually tend to judge others without getting to know them. I do think I am judged for what I do or don't have, but I don't really care. If you get to know me, you can look past all of that. if you can't, then I don't want to get to know you.

3. Is your family comfortable in the "class" they are in?
yes
4. Do you feel your family will ever move up to the next "class?"
maybe
5. What is your personal overall thoughts on "class?"see number 2.

 

[Disney Doll]

Did anyone watch today's Oprah show? The discussion was on "class". Which brings me to a few questions:

1. Does class matter and do you judge others in a lower or higher class than you? Do you ever on purpose hurt another person by trying to make them feel bad because they may not have something as nice as you?

2. Do you personally feel judged by those in your community based on your house, the car you drive, your wedding ring, and so forth?

3. Is your family comfortable in the "class" they are in?

4. Do you feel your family will ever move up to the next "class?"

5. What is your personal overall thoughts on "class?"

1. I don't tend to judge people by class, but more by behavior. No, I would not intentionally make someone feel bad because they do not have what I have
2. Sometimes. We live in a town that has a number of fairly affluent people (we are not among them ), and many of them are very focused on the material aspects of their and everyone else's life.
3. We are very comfortable in the class we're in. We're in the middle, I think. We both have to work, but we are able to afford to do the things we enjoy doing. Our home is nice, but not opulent...a pretty basic 3 BR Cape.
4. No, nor do I feel like I want to. I am quite happy being right here where I am.
5. I have pretty good self-esteem, so class doesn't really bother me. I tend to feel sorry for folks who base their existence on what they have vs. what others have...material things, I guess, instead of what's really important.

 

[beckmrk04]

Did anyone watch today's Oprah show? The discussion was on "class". Which brings me to a few questions:

1. Does class matter and do you judge others in a lower or higher class than you? Do you ever on purpose hurt another person by trying to make them feel bad because they may not have something as nice as you?
It doesn't matter to me. Character matters to me, not class. And I would never hurt anyone on purpose, no matter the circumstance. But especially not because they weren't as fortunate- that is just disgusting.

2. Do you personally feel judged by those in your community based on your house, the car you drive, your wedding ring, and so forth?
No, although when dh and I got engaged, I was not aware of the engagement ring contest among girls my age. I actually did feel judged because my ring wasn't "huge." Now, I could care less.

3. Is your family comfortable in the "class" they are in?
We're comfortable. We have our needs, and some wants. But for us, it's more about being happy than attaining a certain class level: and happy comes from good relationships and self-worth, not money and "things."

4. Do you feel your family will ever move up to the next "class?"
Maybe, but I wouldn't be any different. I don't ever think I'll be sipping champagne with Oprah. Maybe we'll move from Middle class to upper middle. I don't know. Don't care. Like I said, we just strive to be happy and healthy.

5. What is your personal overall thoughts on "class?"
Class is something that society sees to differentiate us all from one another- like race, or religion, or political beliefs, etc. And there are visible differences, but I think it's ridiculous to not talk to someone because of their class. And class is fluid. You (generic person) may be upper-middle today, but you and dh lose your jobs tomorrow, and find yourselves in the poorhouse, you know? People who think themselves "above" others make me ill.

I think it can all go back to the Golden Rule, like so many things. Treat others as you would be treated.

 

[JoyG]

Did anyone watch today's Oprah show? The discussion was on "class". Which brings me to a few questions:

1. Does class matter and do you judge others in a lower or higher class than you? Do you ever on purpose hurt another person by trying to make them feel bad because they may not have something as nice as you?

2. Do you personally feel judged by those in your community based on your house, the car you drive, your wedding ring, and so forth?

3. Is your family comfortable in the "class" they are in?

4. Do you feel your family will ever move up to the next "class?"

5. What is your personal overall thoughts on "class?"

1. I was about to post that I don't judge others, but I had to delete it. There is one category of person that I "judge" and that is pastors or ministers. When I see a minister or a pastor driving around in a flashy car and wearing lots of "bling" it doesn't sit well with me. How I judge them is I choose not to go to their churches. I feel like God would want Christians to be a better steward of their money then spend it on frivalities. I know this is very subjective, but I guess I draw the line at churches who's pastors drive beemers or mercedes'. It doesn't bother me if average people have such things but I wouldn't choose to buy them myself and I expect pastors to set an example for others.

2. I don't feel judged usually, but I live in a very modest house. The one thing that could give people the impression that we spend money frivalously is all the vacations we take and I try not to talk about them much to people...I don't hide it but I don't go out of my way to mention them in conversation either.

3. We are comfortable being middle class. I would feel uncomfortable "appearing" wealthy or upper class. If I was indeed wealthy, I would hope we could continue to live modestly and donate lots more money to charity.

4. I don't usually think about "movin' on up" but DH and his business partners have been talking about it alot. Apparently they have high hopes for a big change in the near future. DH claims he's going to get a fancy car (we clearly don't share the same views on modesty) and I told him I would rather him buy me a nice sensible van.

5. Overall thoughts...I view money as a means to helping others. The more you have the more you can help. I'd rather not appear wealthy even if I was.

 

[cardaway]

First of all, Oprah talking about class...

1. No. I judge people that may be in a lower class than me because they decide to bad things, but it's not based on their class. Plently of people make real good moneyy but do the same bad things.

2. Yes, both ways.

3. Completely.

4. No.

5. People usually fall into the class that equals the effort they are willing to give.

 

[Caradana]

Of course we subconsciously color our judgments of people by their class. It's not that we judge them BY their class - it's that their class affects our judgement of them. I see two people on this thread who have come down on welfare mothers in past threads. Do we judge these women for being poor? No ... do we let the fact that they're poor color our judgment of their choices? YES.

By the way, no one raises their hand and volunteers this. "Oh, no! I would NEVER judge anyone by class! I am an omniscient and subjective judge of character and behavior!" I mean, come on, is anyone going to raise their hand and say "yes, I am a shallow minimalist, and I look at poor people and think that they make stupid decisions and that I deserve better for all of the good choices I've made, and also for being a god-fearing woman who is favored by fate."

 

[DVC Jen]

I judge a persons "class" by their personal worth not their financial worth.

The only time I ever feel uncomfortable is when my oh so lovely sister in law points out and makes snotty comments about something we have and she doesn't. It is always in a very disapproving tone. I don't fall for it and feel guily.. instead I feel bad for her.. she must be having some really unpleasant feelings of her own to be acting the way she does sometimes.

 

[goodeats]

1. Does class matter and do you judge others in a lower or higher class than you? Do you ever on purpose hurt another person by trying to make them feel bad because they may not have something as nice as you? - I never do anything on purpose to make somebody feel bad that they may not have something as nice as me, but sometimes I feel guilty at how well my Dh and I are doing (when compared to most of society). The funny thing is that sometimes I also feel like we're big failures (when compared to my lawyer friends). I guess that's how the world works. I wouldn't say I judge people based on class, but I do judge people on the choices they make.

2. Do you personally feel judged by those in your community based on your house, the car you drive, your wedding ring, and so forth? Of course. I don't think I'll ever not worry about what others think. I try to change it, but appearances are important to me. I was in a sorority in college, so that may be part of it. But even in high school I wanted the 'nicer' clothes.

3. Is your family comfortable in the "class" they are in? Yes, but would like to do better financially. We're fairly newlyweds, and feel like we should wait a few more years to have kids.

4. Do you feel your family will ever move up to the next "class?"I don't feel class is tied with how much money you make. I think our class doesn't change from how we were raiseed. I suppose it could change if you were the first college graduate in your family, or you became a lawyer/doctor while your parents were blue collar. So, no I don't feel we will move up. Even if we win the lotto our social class will not change.

5. What is your personal overall thoughts on "class?" This is a very complicated question. We have a friend who does very well. He and his wife live in a beautiful home, she will stay home with their child, and they have lots of 'finer' things in life (big screen tv, season tickets to football, skiing, boat, etc), but I don't look at them as upper class. They obviously are very comfortable, and they are well-educated, but the way they live is not upper-middle class. He drives a big truck, they don't like 'fancy' food, they vacation at the lake, they don't wear 'nicer' clothes. They grew up with parents had good paying blue collar jobs and I think that plays a part in it. Both DH's and my parents were highly educated. Our dads were both engineers, his mom a nurse, and my mom a SAHM. We went to museums when we were younger or tours of big cities. I feel like we will always be a higher class than these friends even though they may always be better off than us. Of course this doesn't mean anything in terms of our friendship, but it's how I view socio-economic class.

 

[barkley]

i've seen class distinctions being a key issue much more in and WITHIN 2 income brackets-the highly wealthy and the highly poor than i've ever seen or experienced it personaly across the board.

while working in social services in a county that was populated by some of california's poorest residents i quickly learned that there was indeed a social hierarchy and a "pecking order" amongs clients of identical financial circumstances/identical behaviours (and clients were very vocal as to their standing "above" someone else in the community). growing up and initialy working in an area that housed (moreso now than when i grew up) some of the wealthiest i observed that social standing was much more prevelent among those that deemed themselves as "the rich" (weather this was factual or not). the kids in jr./sr high (when i attended) who deemed themselves as "rich kids" were much faster to segregate themselves into a class-and then build a hierarchy and pecking order within that class.

what i have always found amusing (with those that deem themselves as "the rich") is that they always seem so overly concerned with how they are socialy perceived-always have to belong to the "right" club (in napa there were 2 country clubs-"silverado" and "napa"-silverado was the "right club" because of it's higher profile, yet napa-which carried a much lower membership fee-was actualy populated by a much financialy wealthier (i guess what would be called "old money") membership), the "right organizations" and the like. this was very apparant with their children and the organizations/activities they affiliated themselves with in jr/sr high-tennis was encouraged for the girls (but any other female sports team was frowned upon), football was tolerated (unless your son might have a future in the sport or dad was a former player and wanted the bragging rights) but largly tennis and baseball were the teams the males went out for. everything was driven by "appearance".

i think my biggest personal experience with class distinction has come via the extra curricular activities i've participated in since my youth. i've been involved with/affiliated with several area performing arts groups who over time have become "high profile/pet causes" for some of the what i guess would be deemed as "cause celeb". i've found that when i become after some period of absence, active in a production or event i am largly snubbed or ignored by the "patrons of the arts". there is then a sharp "about face" when occasion causes them to notice that the people they hold in high esteem (artistic directors, designers and the like) and whom they love to brag about somehow interacting with ("i was speaking with MR. so and so about" "i heard MR. x say" ) will upon catching site of me seek me out for a hug and a long conversation (shoot we've know each other for years and i dare say some of thier "patrons" would be disappointed to realise how much more closely thier lives mirror those the patrons choose to snub). it seems once it becomes apparant i have some "social standing" with their idols i immediatly become a worthy and valuable person to interact with (and i have to say it can get downright sickening-in fact i've teased some "idols" asking if i can't just call them "MR x" to avoid their patron fauning ).

i guess i'm glad that my kids don't seem to be aware of any real "class" structure-they generaly just believe people are people, and you base your opinions on them relative to their character and behaviours.

 

[disykat]

I tend to be more judgemental of people who spend their money differently than me, not by the amount they have. I think people do the same to me. I've gotten lots of comments over the years about being behind the technology loop, etc.

I also tend to be more judgemental about people's moral/behavioral decisions than their income level. Again, I think people do the same to me. I've certainly been mocked for some of my decisions.

So, while I definately think that "class judgement" exists, I don't really think it has that much to do with income in my circles. Maybe I just don't know people that have significantly different income levels.