Today Show Story About GAC Abuse

[cmwade77]

Two things:

Never been to D-Land in Cali, but it looks like most of their queues are outside whereas WDW in Florida has a lot of indoor queues. Found that interesting.

I was taken aback by the two people on the Today Show expose that didn't feel any remorse or had a moral problem with what they are doing. I thought about it further and I think their point, although still kinda messed up, is that Disney offers VIP tours for anywhere between $315 to $380 per hour and the tour also gets you on certain popular rides without waiting in line.

They probably feel that they are providing the same thing a VIP tour provides, but at a much lower cost (one was $50 per hour and the other $100, I think) and someone that needs that extra income is getting it rather than a multi-billion dollar corporation.

What they are missing is the point that they are mis-using something that Disney happily provides to the people that should have it, the GAC. If the reason you got the GAC to begin with was for a temporary condition (hurt/broke your leg or ankle a week before your vacation) then you should have to return it at the end of your stay--or it's only valid for the length of your stay.

They do only give them out for the length of your stay (they have expiration dates), unless you are a passholder, then they give them out for longer, depending on the condition and if its temporary or permanent.

 

[Sunnywho]

If the reason you got the GAC to begin with was for a temporary condition (hurt/broke your leg or ankle a week before your vacation) then you should have to return it at the end of your stay--or it's only valid for the length of your stay.

Just a sidenote that, if you break your leg or ankle, Disney will recommend that you use a wheelchair if needed, and the CM at the ride will be able to see the issue and direct you to the correct waiting place. At Disney World this may well be the regular line because they are mainstreamed.

But yes the GAC has a date on it and is written out for the length of stay.

 

[cmwade77]

What I want to know is why it doesn't work this way for me. Granted I only have WDW and not DL experience but seriously, at WDW it NEVER works that way for me. Then again, the regular lines are never like that when I'm heading into an attraction because we have really strong touring plans that keep us away from crowds and lines even without a GAC.

I guess I'll find out soon enough first hand what it's like at DL. We'll get DD15's typical GAC plus DD12 will be in a wheelchair (probably; she's at a pain level of 8 out of 10 today after a day at a museum yesterday with her class so I can't imagine that in a mere 5 weeks she'll be up to walking through parks for almost 2 straight weeks even with as many break days as we take). Like I do for WDW though, I'm working on touring plans that should make a huge difference even without the GAC and wheelchair entrances. I can't actually imagine going up to an attraction with a GAC and/or wheelchair when the regular line is like what they're showing. I just wouldn't even try. The area getting to the attraction would be too overwhelming so it's just not something we could even try.

I really hope people like these don't end up making things more difficult for people like us.

Just remember the touring plans with GACs are definitely different than without them at DL, otherwise they will not work as well for you. Sometimes you will need to show up when the standby line is really long, as sometimes when it isn't, the wheelchair line is really long. And sometimes you need to do the attraction when the standby line is really short. There are patterns and it definitely depends in your GAC and specific needs.

 

[cmwade77]

I love this! Geniuses.

Can't wait to see the follow up story.

These people may not care that this is unethical and immoral, but they sure will care once the reality sets in. Using one's AP to run a business is likely covered in the contract. I personally have never read it, even though I have an AP, but I'm sure it's in there somewhere.

I know Disney is not allowed to ask for proof for equal access, but maybe they should start for stamps that allow use of fastpass lines. That is not equal, it is clearly better. If I were asking for one of these GACs, I would have zero objection to that.

Since they have already been in touch with the ADA over this, maybe something like this is in the works.

Actually, use of Fastpass lines is equal for many attractions, as without that use, there are many conditions that would not allow a person to visit an attraction. Additionally, some people conditions may not allow them to visit until after a certain time of day and thus prevent them from being able to get a Fastpass. If they can't wait in the regular queue, due to length and the fast passes are gone for the day, access to the Fastpass queue would be equal access.

But ultimately, it is at the discretion of the CM as to how you should be accommodated at each attraction and it can vary based on operational concerns, crowd levels, etc.

 

[cmwade77]

Something like this happens routinely in DL. I see it all the time. People argue that their GAC trumps the line of people waiting, all of whom have disabilities. Guests either get in the line eventually or stalk off. This happens most often at Space, BTMRR, and Splash. All these lines have fastpass entrances, so a GAC, no matter the stamp, and i have seen them all by now, does not mean automatic FP access.

And if you piss off the CM, you may find yourself getting to visit with some very nice security folk.

Yes, there is no reason to be rude. By the way, the reason that they do not send any GACs through the FP on these three attractions is that they all have stairs. By the way, it is busy and they do need to send those with GACs through the FP line, they will often provide a return time pass that is equal to the length of the standby line (especially if no FPs are available). So even if FP is the way to be accommodated, it doesn't mean it's instant.

 

[ain0004]

We too use a GAC for a vital part of vacation with our Daughter with autism. This entire thing is upsetting. We always provide a note from her specialist. I have no problems with showing documentation. I understand WDW can't ask, but I am in favor for some rule to be put in place. With or without a law

 

[Mama Who]

But all in all the easiest way to combat this is with a policy change. Simply setup scanners to scan the GAC when a person first gets into line and say you can't use the GAC again until the length of time of the standby line has lapsed. It would be scanned when you first get in line, so that the length of time you are waiting is accounted for.

Some of us self-police in a similar manner. If my GAC wait is shorter than stand by, I do not come back for a second ride until that amount of time has passed. It just seems fair.

 

[cmwade77]

We too use a GAC for a vital part of vacation with our Daughter with autism. This entire thing is upsetting. We always provide a note from her specialist. I have no problems with showing documentation. I understand WDW can't ask, but I am in favor for some rule to be put in place. With or without a law

There would be too many problems with requiring proof. For example, if someone didn't know proof was now required or what about those from other countries? Their notes might not meet whatever standards were put in place. The other thing to remember is there was a time (at least at Disneyland) that proof was required and there was a severe injury attributed to it, so the courts ordered that Disney could no longer require proof. What happened for those not in the know was a lady, who had issues with standing for long periods of time (she had a cane or walker, but at that time GACs (called special adsistance pass at the time) were required for everyone, even with mobility devices, but proof was required for anyone not in a wheelchair) and was denied GAC (again, different term then, but used for consistency now), she went to go on Indiana Jones and instead of being directed to the disabled line, she was told that she had to go through the standard queue (would have happened with a wheelchair at the time, as it was a mainstreamed queue prior to FP, so only those with GACs would go through the accessible entrance). Well, she ended up falling in the queue. Then people were rude and walked on or over her, rather than trying to help. I know it can hard to imagine anyone being that rude, but it did indeed happen. This is why requiring proof can never happen again, we can't see repeats of things like this happening (and no, this wasn't the only incident I have heard of, it was the one that I have seen confirmation on though).

My earlier suggestion would work with the law and fix things, as well as keep wait times equal, in all reality, it would probably reduce wait times for those who need GACs on a lot of attractions.

 

[cmwade77]

Some of us self-police in a similar manner. If my GAC wait is shorter than stand by, I do not come back for a second ride until that amount of time has passed. It just seems fair.

But what I am saying is this would also require the length of the standby line to be waited for before going on the next attraction. Thus keeping all wait times equal. And it would be enforced rather than self policed, as not everyone does this.

 

[FortForever]

The ADA is the Americans with Disabilities Act - it's a law, not an organization.
There was an organization mentioned in the TV story, but that is not a government or official organization, just a private organization.

Oops, I guess that second 'A' stands for 'Act' rather than 'Administration.' Not sure why they contacted a private organization since it's the law they would have to go by, not opinion of an organization. Maybe just because they are more knowledgeable of what is acceptable under the law?

Additionally, some people conditions may not allow them to visit until after a certain time of day and thus prevent them from being able to get a Fastpass. If they can't wait in the regular queue, due to length and the fast passes are gone for the day, access to the Fastpass queue would be equal access.

Okay, this I agree this to be the case. I am not sure I agree with your first line of reasoning, so I didn't quote it here. Additionally, it didn't matter in this particular conversation since I agree with at least one point it would make my idea invalid.

This is just such a difficult situation. Twice, I've thought up what I perceived to be good solutions. Both times, I've posted on these boards and people have pointed out the deficiencies in my ideas.

It seems the only really good way to go forward is leaving things alone and concentrating on stopping GACs from being used for profit.

Well, she ended up falling in the queue. Then people were rude and walked on or over her, rather than trying to help. I know it can hard to imagine anyone being that rude, but it did indeed happen.

So sad. I believe it happened, but admit it is hard to imagine that many lowlife people being in one line.

 

[cmwade77]

Oops, I guess that second 'A' stands for 'Act' rather than 'Administration.' Not sure why they contacted a private organization since it's the law they would have to go by, not opinion of an organization. Maybe just because they are more knowledgeable of what is acceptable under the law?



Okay, this I agree this to be the case. I am not sure I agree with your first line of reasoning, so I didn't quote it here. Additionally, it didn't matter in this particular conversation since I agree with at least one point it would make my idea invalid.

This is just such a difficult situation. Twice, I've thought up what I perceived to be good solutions. Both times, I've posted on these boards and people have pointed out the deficiencies in my ideas.

It seems the only really good way to go forward is leaving things alone and concentrating on stopping GACs from being used for profit.



So sad. I believe it happened, but admit it is hard to imagine that many lowlife people being in one line.

The suggestion I have earlier I'd in place at Universal Studios Hollywood and it works very well. Comparing to how it worked before, the new system is much better. I could see it taking time for people to adapt to it, but in the long run it would end up being more fair for everyone.

 

[KPeveler]

By the way, the reason that they do not send any GACs through the FP on these three attractions is that they all have stairs. By the way, it is busy and they do need to send those with GACs through the FP line, they will often provide a return time pass that is equal to the length of the standby line (especially if no FPs are available). So even if FP is the way to be accommodated, it doesn't mean it's instant.

I understand why a person with a GAC for a mobility related need would not be able to to be sent through the FP line, but in my earlier post, I was referring to Guests with GACs that are not mobility related. That guest with a disability may be able to do stairs just fine, but they are sometimes still in the same line as the wheelchairs, even if there is a FP line.

In fact, I see people argue all the time at Space Mountain especially. A guest walks up with a GAC (I usually cannot see the stamp) and does not want to wait in the long wheelchair accessible/alternate entrance queue (the accessible queue through the exit is almost always as long or longer than the stand-by line). They insist, since they do not have a wheelchair and can walk just fine (a paraphrase of their usual words) they want to be directed to the FP line. The CMs just repeat that the wheelchair accessible line and the line for many GACs is the same, and they get to hang with us in that awful place.

I know the rides I mentioned have stairs in the FP queues, otherwise I would use them.

And my point was that it is really never instant. There is no GAC nor mobility device that allows instant access.

I am interested to see what happens with the new RFID tech in Florida, but we are a long way from that here in DL, so I think we will be using the paper GACs for quite some time still.

 

[cmjaffe]

using a GAC pass for DD. Here are our observations. DD is 15 so not young, and at times disability not that noticeable. We come with a dr note (I know not required but Libby feels uncomfortable about being "looked at differently" (being a teenager as well as her disability). At WDW it worked out very well. Used fastpass line where available (she really can't ben in crowds for long time - also bypassing some of the theming in que can be helpful for eliminating extra/uneeding noise/stimulation etc.) We haven't had "walk ons" except during the very late evenings. Had a major problem with Fantastmic lines -- and rudeness of staff (but with proper coordination and cell phones were able to make things work out ok). In the past things weren't are problematic with DD's condition but these last two years have presented major health issues when we go (only times now w/heat and her meds get to be problematic with the combination)so any way of getting some pixie dust in our insanely "work in progress" situation is appreciated. It's very hard to plan things so having the GAC is a god-send.
At DL/CA things were a bit different. On lines with fast pass we went on those lines EXECPT at cars where directed to go to CM who gave a separate fast pass for another time (think it had a 1 1/2 hr wait). Was a bit of a problem since FP line was long and by time we had to wait there was an additional time of 1 hr+ to get on line. Not good in heat where you don't have water to keep drinking while waiting w/med issue (DD almost passed out on ride btw). Otherwise everywhere else FP line just showed GAC pass and waited w/rest . Only real wait was peter pan which had a different line for handicap. Had a real long line there and over an hour wait -- was n outside. DD was waiting patiently especially since it wasn't confined, outside AND didn't have additional stimulation. The only problem we had was with the actual ride... it was extremely dark, jerky (almost hit another "boat) which elevated DD anxiety ... almost in tears, vowing never to do it again.... a shame since Peter Pan in WDW is ultimate fave..... as well as Peter Pan (Peter and Star Catcher in general).\
DD has seen the buz now on tv and internet and is hoping she won't be affected... we usually don't stay long in the parks because of her condition usually later starts in day after 2 PM).
Hope this is mainly geared to those greedy folks$

 

[sunshinehighway]

using a GAC pass for DD. Here are our observations. DD is 15 so not young, and at times disability not that noticeable. We come with a dr note (I know not required but Libby feels uncomfortable about being "looked at differently" (being a teenager as well as her disability). At WDW it worked out very well. Used fastpass line where available (she really can't ben in crowds for long time - also bypassing some of the theming in que can be helpful for eliminating extra/uneeding noise/stimulation etc.) We haven't had "walk ons" except during the very late evenings. Had a major problem with Fantastmic lines -- and rudeness of staff (but with proper coordination and cell phones were able to make things work out ok). In the past things weren't are problematic with DD's condition but these last two years have presented major health issues when we go (only times now w/heat and her meds get to be problematic with the combination)so any way of getting some pixie dust in our insanely "work in progress" situation is appreciated. It's very hard to plan things so having the GAC is a god-send.
At DL/CA things were a bit different. On lines with fast pass we went on those lines EXECPT at cars where directed to go to CM who gave a separate fast pass for another time (think it had a 1 1/2 hr wait). Was a bit of a problem since FP line was long and by time we had to wait there was an additional time of 1 hr+ to get on line. Not good in heat where you don't have water to keep drinking while waiting w/med issue (DD almost passed out on ride btw). Otherwise everywhere else FP line just showed GAC pass and waited w/rest . Only real wait was peter pan which had a different line for handicap. Had a real long line there and over an hour wait -- was n outside. DD was waiting patiently especially since it wasn't confined, outside AND didn't have additional stimulation. The only problem we had was with the actual ride... it was extremely dark, jerky (almost hit another "boat) which elevated DD anxiety ... almost in tears, vowing never to do it again.... a shame since Peter Pan in WDW is ultimate fave..... as well as Peter Pan (Peter and Star Catcher in general).\
DD has seen the buz now on tv and internet and is hoping she won't be affected... we usually don't stay long in the parks because of her condition usually later starts in day after 2 PM).
Hope this is mainly geared to those greedy folks$

There has been some information out which could help to explains your experiences at Cars land (is that what its called?). From what I've read, it seems GAC use for that area is so high among AP holders that it impacts the FP lines when there's a large number of AP users in the park. I believe I read it actually gets to the point that they have to stop distributing FPs to the general public because the FP line gets so overwhelmed.

 

[infopurposesonly]

- in the last few years, they renovated to line at Magic Carpets of Aladdin to be fully wheelchair accessible. The first trip after that, we took DD to the exit in her wheelchair and showed her GAC because thst was previously the only way that was accessible.
The CM said that the regular line was accessible and that since the posted wait was less than 20 minutes, there were no accommodations being given for anyone other than children on Wish Trips (if it had been more than 20 minutes with the GAC DD has, they would have given us a return time equal to the line).
We went around and were going to get into the line, but a family with a GAC (no wheelchair) was blocking the entrance and arguing loudly with the CM, saying their child could not wait 15 minutes, he needed to get on right away.
By the time we boarded, 15 minutes later, they were still arguing with the CM.

On our last couple of visits, we have asked if we could wait the fifteen-twenty minutes at the exit instead of getting in the regular queue. I explained that it was the crowded line that was the issue, not the amount of time (although that's a separate issue, which is why we go at a less crowded time of year). We didn't argue, just made the request. They allowed it both times, although they didn't seem happy about it. I didn't time it to see if they actually had us wait the full amount of time, but we definitely waited awhile. It wasn't immediate access.

 

[onecuteladybug]

We do have annual passes at WDW. The DL ones have a photo, the WDW ones did many years ago, but have not had photos for many years. They stopped using pictures on WDW annual passes when they installed the old finger scanners (the ones where you had to put 2 fingers into the scanner and have both fingers scanned).
I don't know if they were not using those scanners at DL or if they have more issues with passes. But, I do know the WDW ones do not have photos and the DL ones do.
Also, the annual pass may not have a name on it, but the number on the pass accesses that guest's file, which has name, address, how the guest paid for the pass, etc.
the GAC has the person's name written on it and if there was an issue, looking at the GAC and the using a scanner yo read the annual pass would let the CMs see whether the person using the GAC was actually the one it was issued to.

As of April 1st, possibly before, there are no longer photos on DLR AP's... They are even removing expiration dates in hopes that they will be used continuously until the ink comes off... I had to find a PhotoPass photog to have my picture taken and now every time they scan my card, my horrible pic shows on their screen.

 

[keishashadow]

They do only give them out for the length of your stay (they have expiration dates), unless you are a passholder, then they give them out for longer, depending on the condition and if its temporary or permanent.

back from stay a week ago, was told they are only issuing GAC cards for AP holders for a maximum of two weeks now.

when i questioned 'why' was told that it's was due to the upcoming new technology. curious to see how that works out & if it's in place by our next trip in October.btw, I did notice many covered readers near the boarding areas of rides that don't currently participate in FP (even small world).

 

[SueM in MN]

back from stay a week ago, was told they are only issuing GAC cards for AP holders for a maximum of two weeks now.

when i questioned 'why' was told that it's was due to the upcoming new technology. curious to see how that works out & if it's in place by our next trip in October.btw, I did notice many covered readers near the boarding areas of rides that don't currently participate in FP (even small world).

From what has come out about Fastpass Plus, most (if not all) attractions will participate in Fastpass Plus.
Not that much is known about Fastpass Plus for sure other than it will take advantage of RFID (radio frequency ID) built into park passes and Magicbands.
Guests will be able to prearrange some times for Fastpass - no one is sure how many or how often. Guests will also be able to sign up for some Fastpasses inside the parks - again, not sure how any or how often.

There are guesses that guests using GACs at WDW will have information about their GAC linked to their RFID park ticket, AP or Magicbands.
This should cut down on abuse by people lending or selling the GAC or using the GAC for a ride the person it was issued to will not be riding.

The 2 week timeline for GACs for people with APs apparently have to do with trying to inconvenience people who are using GACs for 'business' purposes as well as trying to get ready to standardize to whatever new technology is going to be used at WDW.

 

[keishashadow]

thank you Sue for the information. I hope the new system does assure GACs work as intended.