To Tip or Not To Tip (long)

[kwitcherkicken99]

In the spirit of full disclosure - servers make a sub minimum wage in SOME states. In California and Nevada minimum is required. Coming from California I used to feel that tipping should be done purely as a thank you - with no regard as to whether the server "deserved" the tip or not. However, knowing that society - and the government of the people of states like Florida - have decided that patrons should tip servers as part of their salary - I tip different. I always leave something - even for just basic service - because the tip is part of the compensation for basic service in these states

It should be more like that across the board. If the minimum wage for tipped employees was higher, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

I asked my sister (a server) about this. She said that is a perception many servers have, that foreigners tip poorly. I know my wife and I have noticed, pretty much across the board, a decline in the service we've received since DS's came along. My sister said that's another one, people with young kids tip poorly.

In a lot of foreign countries, it is considered ackward to receive a tip, when they come over here, the whole idea is "foreign" to them and it doesn't always translate well.

Not certain if it is the same for every state, but I would guess that it is. If a server does not report enough tips to get his/her hourly rate up to minimum wage, the employer is required to make up the difference here in Michigan.

Servers are supposed to report 100% of their tips, but most don't. Generally if the IRS sees the server reporting less than 10% of their total sales, red flags pop up and the store plus the server can get in trouble. And technically here, the restaurant is supposed to offset tips if they do not equal minimum wage, but that is rarely ever the case. They take a weekly average vs. a daily one. You ever work for 8 hours and make $25? It sucks. $3 in tips per hour on top of your super high hourly wage of $2.13... yeah, that is no where NEAR federal minimum wage.

 

[floridianer]

Hey

I, normally, don´t write in "Tipping Posts"... neither here or in Tripadvisor...

But just a few thoughts.
I talked someone who is a server in Florida.
And this is, what they make at LEAST!

Let´s say a server works ONLY 40 hours a week.
in a normal restaurant.
He works in Outback Restaurant and has 15 Tables to serve.
But let´s say that the average would be only 6 Tables (which would be a VERY small restaurant I guess)
Let´s say, that ONLY 6 Tables are served per hour (is that accurate? I guess YES)
Let´s say, depending on how many people are served per table (between 2 and 6) I guess 3 is a good estimate for a MINIMUM)
A bill for 3 would be around 75 to 100 Dollar, right?
Let´s say 80!

OK, you say they earn between 2 and 3 dollar an hour.

40 hours per week make 160 hours per month.
Monthly payment (2,50 Dollar) would be 400 $.

6 Tables with guests would be 960 Tables served in a month...

An average bill of 80 $ would makes 12 $ per table (if you leave 15%)

960 x 12 makes 11520 $
Plus 400

Total of 11920 $.
This is 143040 $ per year...

Well, I WOULD DO THAT JOB!!

I don´t want to offend anyone and this is exactly what I talked with my buddy working there.
Anyone who thinks that servers are UNDERPAYED????
He doesn´t! Me neither...

Any mistake found in my maths???
I would totally appreaciate any input and anyone who can lighten me up should I have a mistake in my thoughts...
Just didn´t find it!

Just a reminder...
This was NOT what HE GETS (he works in a LARGE restaurant and does a lot more!!)
This is what we considered a MINIMUM ...

NOW:

I a totaly fine with tipping and I really leave a 15% Tip if the service is more than good!
I really think that it is fine if a server does a BRILLIANT job if he/she gets more than 100000 a year.

BUT I don´t see how server can DEMAND a 15% tip just for bringing the food and being not more than good!

I know and totally understand that server is a hard job and they are, SOMETIMES, treated unfair.
But this happens in my job too.
And guess what:

I don´t get 143000 a year!

 

[goofy4prez]

This is going to start nothing but arguments...

It always does!!!!

I don't understand many of the controversial subjects on this site. THIS is one of them.

Tip if you want.

Don't tip if you don't want.

END OF DISCUSSION.

AMEN !!!!!

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

He works in Outback Restaurant and has 15 Tables to serve.
But let´s say that the average would be only 6 Tables (which would be a VERY small restaurant I guess)

Most restaurants won't let you serve that many tables on one shift providing the shift is fully staffed (not counting the off hours after people have gone home...) at Chili's, corporate-wide, a single server isn't supposed to have more than 4 tables in their section.

 

[Disneyadore]

Ok - Since this thread had not been closed (yet) I do have a question about tipping for turndown service...

If you request turndown service what is an appropriate tip? Any extra if they have to do the day bed as well? Where do you leave the tip?

I was thinking $2 for both beds and day bed in an envelope on the bed or nightstand.

I "googled" it can could not find a very clear answer...

Okay got my flame suit on.
We get turn down service without asking. Comes with the room automatically. We just put 5 dollar for the morning ladies and again five dollar for the turn down ladies on the night stand with a little note saying "Thank you for taking so good care of us".

 

[floridianer]

Most restaurants won't let you serve that many tables on one shift providing the shift is fully staffed (not counting the off hours after people have gone home... at Chili's, corporate-wide, a single server isn't supposed to have more than 4 tables in their section.

Yeah

ok. Thanks a lot!

Only 4 Tables...

Comes only to 7680 per month plus 400.
8080 x 12 is then UNDER 100000

96960

Let´s say he works HALFTIME

Only 80 hours per month...

48480 per year.


But I have to agree.
The best is that everyone decides by himself if he feels to tip or not.

I agree with the AMEN also

 

[Tara922c]

Warning! I'm about to hijack this thread!

I've just always wondered why people (waitresses, servers, housekeepers, etc) don't just get paid a proper wage in the first place so that tipping isn't necessary.


For goodness sake,

When I was a gas station attendant making minimum wage, did I get a tip for giving you good service or helping you outside above and beyond my duty? - NO

When I was a foster care worker in college still making minimum wage and I definitely went above and beyond caring for my residents and acknowledging their accomplishments, but did I get tips? - No

When I worked as a nurse, did I get tipped for having a smile and giving a person their meds on time? - No

When I teach college courses, do I get a tip if you get an A? - No

I'm a lawyer, if I get you a great settlement do I get a tip? - No

Don't get me wrong, I tip, but I think its all ridiculous. If a person does his/her job properly, he/she should make a descent wage relevant to the task. If they don't, they should be fired.

That would resolve threads like this forever!

Yes, but in all those posistions you were paid at least minimum wage. Floridia servers make 3.15 an hour. (better than Texas, I only made 2.13 an hour). It doesn't matter whether you worked there for 6 months or 6 years, servers rarely get an hourly raise. Then on top of that many servers have to pay "tip pool" that goes to help pay for the host, buss boys, bartenders. For example on a busy Friday night, I would have to pay up to 30 dollars in tip pool. I worked for about 7 hours, so I made 14.91 in hourly pay. I rarely walked out with less than 100 bucks, so for a college kid, I wasn't complaining too much. As I had to pay taxes on my tips, my checks were never over 10 bucks every two weeks. I depended on tips, and expected them, but I only expected them when I gave great service. My point is, our govenment allows servers to be paid pennies because patrons are "expected" to tip. It is not the waiters fault. The only way tips in restuarants would be eliminated would be if our tipping culture changed. The government would have to raise the minimum wage for servers (it has been 2.13 for over 25 years in Texas!), and the resturants would have to raise their menu prices to be able to pay their servers more. I doubt they would pay more than 10 bucks an hour, and as a former server, there is no way I would do that job for 10 buck an hour, no way. It is the most stressful, mental and physically demanding job I have ever had. You have to deal with hungry, rude people, who think you should kiss their feet in order to get a tip.

Personally, I like to dictate my tip. I always tip, unless my server is downright rude. If they are a bad server, I give 10 to 15%, if they are okay 15% to 20%, and if they go out of their way, I hook them up

Being said, I am not the know all of know alls when it comes to tipping. I beleive you should leave what you feel the waiter deserved. It isn't the waiters fault you are expected to tip, it is our country's tipping culture, the government (who allows waiters to be tipped so litte), and the restuarant who pays the waiter pennies, who expects you to tip!

 

[cathydwin]

Generally, I feel tipping is what is best for you. For me, I do tip Mousekeeping as the past 4 years they have adjusted the schedule to have our room done before we get back for our mid-day break. One day I came back ealy due to violent headace and practically shut the door on mousekeeping as I wanted peace & quite & dark. Our mousekeeper had to call in why she was only in room 5 minutes or less and I confirmed that I asked for only towels & to left alone. She stated that she calls in when a room is finished then moves on to the next.
We have has some good ones and some bad ones when dealing with mousekeeping, so the tip is really a personal choice!.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The server doesn't demand it. No person 'demands' it. It's the way the service industry works.

Chances are your imaginary server is not working forty hours a week, nor five days a week, nor eight hours a day. For VERY FEW people is restaurant service a full-time, permanent position. And you do NOT want a server with fifteen tables. FIFTEEN table? Really??? Six tables wouldn't be a small restaurant, it would be a typical (chain) restaurant with six times x tables and ideally enough servers to staff those tables.

Let's say they work the more likely six hours a day, three days a week. Out of those six hours, maybe four are spent serving. An hour is devoted to set-up and prep; another hour to clean-up and prep for the next day. So, four hours times six tables times three diners.

The economy stinks right now (not sure if you're aware) so the average check would tend to be more in the range of $15 - assuming all diners are adults. So, $45 per table, times 15%. Figure each table turns over once an hour, so twenty-four parties, or $162. The server needs to tip out the bartender (yes, even just for pouring soda), the bus persons, the food runners, sometimes the host/esses. Figure $150, times three days = $450. Add that to the - shocking! - $42.35 the restaurant PAYS them for those same eighteen hours, you get $492.35.

You end up with a much less enviable - but far more realistic - PRE-tax annual earning of $25,599.60.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Most restaurants won't let you serve that many tables on one shift providing the shift is fully staffed (not counting the off hours after people have gone home...) at Chili's, corporate-wide, a single server isn't supposed to have more than 4 tables in their section.

Thank you. I thought six was standard, but obviously it depends on a number of conditions, company policy being an important one I still stand by my claim that nobody would WANT to eat at a restaurant where servers were assigned FIFTEEN tables

 

[BuzzBiteyear]

In a lot of foreign countries, it is considered ackward to receive a tip, when they come over here, the whole idea is "foreign" to them and it doesn't always translate well.

That's what I told her, as did my father. She wasn't aware of that, thought tipping is just "normal" everywhere. I think sometimes people need to realize, customs both foreign and even regional can be cause for a large difference in tipping habits.

Servers are supposed to report 100% of their tips, but most don't. Generally if the IRS sees the server reporting less than 10% of their total sales, red flags pop up and the store plus the server can get in trouble. And technically here, the restaurant is supposed to offset tips if they do not equal minimum wage, but that is rarely ever the case. They take a weekly average vs. a daily one. You ever work for 8 hours and make $25? It sucks. $3 in tips per hour on top of your super high hourly wage of $2.13... yeah, that is no where NEAR federal minimum wage. [/QUOTE]

As a CPA, I've had this conversation with my sister (the 100% reporting) and then with my restaurant clients (calculating hourly wage on a daily basis vs weekly or monthly), but also said they needed to talk with their servers about properly reporting their tips, when it came that I could see on a weekly basis they were under the minimum wage, and calculated the amounts they owed to the employee. It's always amazed me how over years of looking at those payrolls, not once did someone receive tips that involved cents. Not even my sister who I tipped 3 shiney pennies once (while hiding the real tip under a plate, that she found later after admitting calling me a not-so-nice name, haha). I know, I know, rounding, but having prepared taxes for 10+ years, I also know there are those who think every amount must be exact to the penny.

With as computerized as everything has become, it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to report tips on a daily basis, that way meeting the minimum wage daily could be met.

I hear that about the bad days, my sister used to waitress in Shipshewana, IN, which is a tourist trap that has a big flea market on Tuesdays and Wednesdays during the summer. On those days, tips were great, but if she got a Monday or Thursday, they were awful, to the point it wasn't worth the gas money to make the short trip to work.

 

[floridianer]

The server doesn't demand it. No person 'demands' it. It's the way the service industry works.

Chances are your imaginary server is not working forty hours a week, nor five days a week, nor eight hours a day. For VERY FEW people is restaurant service a full-time, permanent position. And you do NOT want a server with fifteen tables. FIFTEEN table? Really??? Six tables wouldn't be a small restaurant, it would be a typical (chain) restaurant with six times x tables and ideally enough servers to staff those tables.

Let's say they work the more likely six hours a day, three days a week. Out of those six hours, maybe four are spent serving. An hour is devoted to set-up and prep; another hour to clean-up and prep for the next day. So, four hours times six tables times three diners.

The economy stinks right now (not sure if you're aware) so the average check would tend to be more in the range of $15 - assuming all diners are adults. So, $45 per table, times 15%. Figure each table turns over once an hour, so twenty-four parties, or $162. The server needs to tip out the bartender (yes, even just for pouring soda), the bus persons, the food runners, sometimes the host/esses. Figure $150, times three days = $450. Add that to the - shocking! - $42.35 the restaurant PAYS them for those same eighteen hours, you get $492.35.

You end up with a much less enviable - but far more realistic - PRE-tax annual earning of $25,599.60.

Thanks for that!

25.599 for 3 days a week with 6 hours per day???

Where shall I sign??



And I guess you NOW agree, that the 25.500 is really the MINIMUM, right??

Because I don´t think that the average per serve is 15 $
This is a steak without drinks...
20 to 25 would be more accurate but anyways.

is it correct the minimum in Florida is 3,15?

then we´ll have a bit more than I calculated

And AGAIN... As I said previously...
I´m not mad that they make the money... They should!
I´m just mad about this storys how poor the servers are and that they don´t make money.
If the service is great everyone should tip and I guess the majority of the posters DO, right?

 

[mousireid]

I tip when the service was very good, more when it is outstanding. If someone does a lousy job they most certainly will not be receiving any tip. A good enough job warrants a minor tip. It is a little sad to think if you DO NOT tip you will not receive good service, bit bribery there? If you have a job to do and do it well you will receive a tip from me!

 

[floridianer]

I tip when the service was very good, more when it is outstanding. If someone does a lousy job they most certainly will not be receiving any tip. A good enough job warrants a minor tip. It is a little sad to think if you DO NOT tip you will not receive good service, bit bribery there? If you have a job to do and do it well you will receive a tip from me!

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

That's what I told her, as did my father. She wasn't aware of that, thought tipping is just "normal" everywhere. I think sometimes people need to realize, customs both foreign and even regional can be cause for a large difference in tipping habits.

Especially in France! Boy was that ever driven home when I was taking the language.

As a CPA, I've had this conversation with my sister (the 100% reporting) and then with my restaurant clients (calculating hourly wage on a daily basis vs weekly or monthly), but also said they needed to talk with their servers about properly reporting their tips, when it came that I could see on a weekly basis they were under the minimum wage, and calculated the amounts they owed to the employee. It's always amazed me how over years of looking at those payrolls, not once did someone receive tips that involved cents.

1) EXACTLY 2) it's honestly easier to round.

With as computerized as everything has become, it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to report tips on a daily basis, that way meeting the minimum wage daily could be met.

I theory yes, but again, I think they look at the total sales for the week vs. daily sales and the resulting tips. One day could be really high, the other exceptionally low... the average makes up the difference so the dailys don't matter.

I hear that about the bad days, my sister used to waitress in Shipshewana, IN, which is a tourist trap that has a big flea market on Tuesdays and Wednesdays during the summer. On those days, tips were great, but if she got a Monday or Thursday, they were awful, to the point it wasn't worth the gas money to make the short trip to work.

I know that area very well. And she's right. I finally started telling my bosses they had to work me double shifts on days like that because I wasn't going to waste my gas getting to work. If I wasn't making decent tips, it's not worth my time (guess that's how I ended working 5p-4a most nights...).

 

[Tara922c]

Thanks for that!

25.599 for 3 days a week with 6 hours per day???

Where shall I sign??



And I guess you NOW agree, that the 25.500 is really the MINIMUM, right??

Because I don´t think that the average per serve is 15 $
This is a steak without drinks...
20 to 25 would be more accurate but anyways.

is it correct the minimum in Florida is 3,15?

then we´ll have a bit more than I calculated

And AGAIN... As I said previously...
I´m not mad that they make the money... They should!
I´m just mad about this storys how poor the servers are and that they don´t make money.
If the service is great everyone should tip and I guess the majority of the posters DO, right?

This is coming from someone who made a living as a server for 6 years. I don't know too many severs who make 25K a year on 3 nights per week. I am sure it happens, but it is rare. Your PPA, is a little off except at a fine dining establishment. You are going to have people who order steak, and wine, but you are also going to have people who share a steak, and drink water. Where I worked the cheapest meal was 10 bucks, and the most expensive was 30. Sodas were 2.25, and the cheapest margarita was 7 bucks. Sometimes you would have a table of 2 whose bill was 75, sometimes you would have a table of 6 whose bill was 30. In this economy, people started drinking less, not ordering apps., and sharing entrees. Anyway, our average PPA was around 20 dollars a person. Also, not everyone tips well. Sometimes people sit at your table all night long, leave a crappy tip, and prevent anyone else from sitting at that table. Sometimes a waiter's sales are 1000, and they walk out with 200 in tips (rare), and sometimes they are 1000, and they walk out with 50 bucks. I would say, on average my tips were about 15%. Some people tip great, so like crap, but it averaged to 15%. Let's say my sales were 1000, and I averaged 15%, that's 150, now I have to tip out (our maximum tip out was 30) So now I am leaving with 120. Not bad. I work 3 days a week 360 a week thats about 18700 which is wonderful for 3 days a week. However, that is in an ideal world. Many servers have their good nights, and their bad nights. Many times my sales were 1000 on weekends, but on the weekdays, they were more like 600, and I would end up making like 70. Severs do make decent money. It is a great job to have while your in school. If you work fine dining you can make close to 100K per year. But I promise you, your typical waiter at chili's isn't bringing home over 20K per year working 3 days per week. It is good money, but it is HARD work, that not everyone can do. The most I ever made in one night was 200 bucks. The least was 2.90. (we were really slow, and I went home an hour into my shift). There were times I worked all day on a sunday and made 50 bucks, the next week 150 bucks. I am just saying, servers do okay, but not like what you think.

 

[wisnieea]

The server doesn't demand it. No person 'demands' it. It's the way the service industry works.

Chances are your imaginary server is not working forty hours a week, nor five days a week, nor eight hours a day. For VERY FEW people is restaurant service a full-time, permanent position. And you do NOT want a server with fifteen tables. FIFTEEN table? Really??? Six tables wouldn't be a small restaurant, it would be a typical (chain) restaurant with six times x tables and ideally enough servers to staff those tables.

Let's say they work the more likely six hours a day, three days a week. Out of those six hours, maybe four are spent serving. An hour is devoted to set-up and prep; another hour to clean-up and prep for the next day. So, four hours times six tables times three diners.

The economy stinks right now (not sure if you're aware) so the average check would tend to be more in the range of $15 - assuming all diners are adults. So, $45 per table, times 15%. Figure each table turns over once an hour, so twenty-four parties, or $162. The server needs to tip out the bartender (yes, even just for pouring soda), the bus persons, the food runners, sometimes the host/esses. Figure $150, times three days = $450. Add that to the - shocking! - $42.35 the restaurant PAYS them for those same eighteen hours, you get $492.35.

You end up with a much less enviable - but far more realistic - PRE-tax annual earning of $25,599.60.

This is much more reasonable. And add to the fact that probably only 50% of people actually tip that 15%.

There is no way the average server is making over 100 thousand dollars a year. IF that is even possible it would be happening in extremely high end restaurants with servers who get all the primo shifts (opens and closes or over-dinner). And if that is the case than they are working WAY over 40 hours a week.

 

[hockey mom]

I am so grateful that there are people out there willing to clean my toilet that I gladly tip and I am not looking for any towel animals. We have had housekeepers in Disney and Vegas stop us to give us heartfelt smiles and a big thank-you- and that starts my day off with a big smile.

Just a note- buffet servers do as much(if not more) work than menu servers.

My one beef lately though is Disney tacking on 18% tip to tables of 6 or more. We got some very bad service our last trip because the tip was a given. One server at WCC actually chased me into the lobby to tell me I did not leave her enough. Our tip was over $50 and my sister left her half at her end of the table and I left my half at my end. This was the fastest we seen her move for the whole dinner.

 

[Andrea73]

I asked my sister (a server) about this. She said that is a perception many servers have, that foreigners tip poorly. I know my wife and I have noticed, pretty much across the board, a decline in the service we've received since DS's came along. My sister said that's another one, people with young kids tip poorly.

This is another issue. Servers do have perceptions and sometimes base their service on it. Another perception is that minorities do not tip well.

We consider ourselves good tippers. We typically do 20% for average service. Honestly, the math is just easier, take 10% and double it. If our kids make a bigger than normal mess, we may even add more.

But it's a shame for the servers who think that minorities and people with kids don't tip well and don't give us good or even standard service. Because I will drop the amount if it is really bad.

It can be a self fulfilling prophecy. X people (families, foreigners, minorities, young people) don't tip well so I give them bad service, then X people decide not to tip well BASED on the bad service.

 

[ginnymack]

Well, since we are illuminating the servers job a few more points to consider...

PP who discussed tipping more at vacation destinations after already paying "inflated" prices...remember that the cost of living is much higher in resort areas. A modest one bedroom apt is affordable in Anytown, USA, but quite a bit higher if, for example you are at the beach!

Many of the tipping calcualtions done previously assume a full restaurant/section start to finish which is just not the case! You usually only have one seating that your section is full (6:30-7:30 in my hometown, a little later for resorts) And that is only on a Friday or Saturday night! You never get a full section even once on a weeknight! Of course, at Disney, they are full more often! The average section is 3-4 tables that seat 4 people. Of course you will frequently have a booth with only 2 people.

Also, the server has to tip support staff. A huge chunk of what ever I made, I had to tip out to the barteneder and bus boy. This was based on my sales - not the amt I made in tip. So if I had a few poor tippers, I still had to tip-out the same amount.

And lastly, I will mention a servers worst nightmare. Ladies night out. (I am a lady and I love my nights out, so don't blast me here!) A server looses half of their section to a group that is going to sit and talk and talk and talk - I am guilty of this myself! You can't turn the table to try to make more money, so you just ride it out and hope they take care of you. So folks, if you are going to meet the girls, guys, family for a long liesurely dinner it a busy restaurant, just remember to take care of your server!