To the DISer whose husband was looking for a teaching job

[BuzzLiteyear]

I was referring to the following by you


why the discussion on giving up lunch?

Because part of the discussion is about the teachers being asked to give up 1 lunch period a week to work with students...then throw in the $70,000 comment and I was just trying to make a point. What does making $70,000 have to do with "giving up" extra time, some of which is 1 lunch period a week? I would not want to be told that I have to do this. Personally, I give up all 5 as it is. I have had 1 lunch so far this school year. I am far too busy to take my 22 minute lunch. There are places where it is against the law to deny someone their breaks, including lunch. Mind you, I'm not complaining. I choose to do it, but don't tell me I should or have to do it because I make $70,000 (which I don't).

That's where my comment came from!

 

[fac]

There is a bottom line with NCLB too - there is no way that every child will be proficient in every subject. It just won't happen regardless of how much information is crammed down their throats, it just won't happen.

Is the idea that everyone will be on the same page a good idea? Yes but it's not practical.

I am aware of this in particular my exposure with the SPED kids, NCLB brings out some problems within the system, a lot of the kids should be proficient and they aren't. I have shown the school how I bring my kid to be proficient in Math when they just told me she has a disability and gave up.

Obama is going to change it, will see what happens.

 

[bridget]

NCLB has issues however, when it comes to reading instruction in my building, we have really stepped it up! It is not just decoding words, but teaching reading comprehension strategies that these students can use for the rest of their life. My big slogan in my room is Reading is Thinking. We are predicting, making inferences, summarizing, visualizing, making connections, etc. I tell all my students, this isn't for the test, these strategies will make reading easier and you'll enjoy it more. My fifth grade girls and I had a major discussion walking down the hall on the way to reading group about what parts of the book the Lightening Thief that they were able to visualize (none of them have seen the movie). I wish I had a video camera to record their discussions. It was amazing. These were girls that if it wasn't for NCLB would have been left behind

 

[BuzzLiteyear]

BuzzLiteYear - PLEASE do not take Hannathy's comments as a personal attack. I truly believe that Hannathy is commenting on the situation in Rhode Island. And to that end, Hannathy is correct. The average teacher's salary at the high school is between $72K & 78K. That is a good salary regardless of your profession. It is also worth being said, that those salaries are paid on the backs of taxpayers. That alone is going to invoke strong emotion from people.

The super wanted to change the school hours from 7:50 - 2:25 pm to 8am - 3pm. There was the additional 25 minutes a day. Ok, so maybe Hannathy estimated a bit on the low end for what the work day consisted of, but really not by much.

I think this thread has established that pay scales for teachers vary throughout the country. I think this thread has also established that teachers work very hard.

Now, how about some solutions? Are there are teachers out there that have been a part of a successful turnaround in an underpeforming school district?

There are so many serious factors playing into this unfortunate set of circumstances.

If that is the case then I find it hard to believe that the blame falls only on the teachers. How could every teacher in that district be that bad and if they are then why didn't the administration "weed" them out in their first few years on the job? It sounds like this school failure belongs to everyone (teachers, parents, administration, etc.). I'd like to hear the other side of the story too.

I'd also like to know why teachers are not allowed to make a decent salary without taking a lot of heat for it. If a store manager makes $100,000 we don't take issue with it. Many other professions are also exempt from public ridicule. Teachers in many states (mine included) are required to have a masters degree. We are also required to participate in a specified number of professional development hours in order to maintain our certificate. Most of this is unpaid, unless the district agrees to pay. So why is there this negative vibe when some one mentions that a teacher might make $70,000?

So I do take this personally. I think that if I started making blanket statements about other professions, that would evoke emotions from many others. Yes, there are bad teachers out there. There are bad doctors, lawyers, store managers, etc...I am sure that there are teachers within that RI district that are very good at their job. There are obviously a few bad ones too. Like I said before, I'd like to hear both sides of the story.

Anyway...

 

[fac]

I have worked in several low performing schools. You are looking for solutions and here are a few that have worked:
1. Hired additional teachers to teach remedial reading and math. A child can't learn history well if they can't read close to grade level. They can't learn algebra well if they don't know basic math. keep these classes extremely small so that kids have alot of one on one attention. Keep kids in remediation until they are ready to handle coursework. trickle this down into the feeder middle/junior schools and elementary schools so that the problem doesn't continue year after year.
2. Do not pass kids who are not at or near grade level. Mandate summer school for those who need it. Change laws that require parents consent for retention.
3. Hire a trunancy officer who checks daily on kids who are absent. Take steps against families who have children who are consistantly absent.
4. Provide ESL classes for both kids and parents until they are fluent and can manage in English the normal course load.

Problems- This costs money not saves as the firing of everyone does. Laws/Rules must be change about retention and pulling kids out for remediation. An investment has to be made across all levels of schools in the district and maintained overtime. The extra money/help for low performing schools usually dries up as soon as they pull up scores minimally and the cycle begins all over again.

good suggestions. For a lack of funding they are asking the teachers to work the extra hours..

Again, from my experience with my district, a lot depends on the teachers as well. My kid is in a resource room with 5 kids. She had the same teacher taught her 2 out of the last 3 years, I have been monitoring my kid's progress, some how I managed to make sure she knew her multiplication facts well, but I knew a kid in her class didn't even know the multiplication table going into 5th grade. I also knew DD's 4th grade teacher always asked DD not to answer questions so that other kids could answer the questions. Therefore, I was concerned when she went to 5th grade, I talked to the SPED teacher and asked her for suggestion for a private tutor for DD's language arts, I also brought up Math as I was not sure how she would teach, she told me she would not teach multiplication facts and would just ask the kids to look the answer up from a printout. Then a minute later, she was bragging on how well she could teacher her private student multiplication facts in a few months. I was speechless and thought why she didn't apply the same technique on the student who had problem. It was a small class, hence I knew other kids as well. Anyway, I took DD and ran (I meant I moved her out from the resouce room for Math). The way this woman "taught" language arts was to give handouts in class, did the exercises, corrected it in class. Nearly 0% homework.

Then this year, DD's SPED teacher not only gave one-on-one to DD, she offered the same to other kids in her class. When I talked to her, I can see that she understands DD's strength and weaknesses. I always thought if the previous teachers even did a decent job she will not need to spend as much time.

Anyway, how can the school evaluate either teacher? I don't know. Therefore smaller class size alone is not necessary the solution. We need dedicated teachers.

I do think the kids need good foundation, the better teachers should be teaching the earlier grade. But who is the better teacher?? I don't know.

 

[fac]

NCLB has issues however, when it comes to reading instruction in my building, we have really stepped it up! It is not just decoding words, but teaching reading comprehension strategies that these students can use for the rest of their life. My big slogan in my room is Reading is Thinking. We are predicting, making inferences, summarizing, visualizing, making connections, etc. I tell all my students, this isn't for the test, these strategies will make reading easier and you'll enjoy it more. My fifth grade girls and I had a major discussion walking down the hall on the way to reading group about what parts of the book the Lightening Thief that they were able to visualize (none of them have seen the movie). I wish I had a video camera to record their discussions. It was amazing. These were girls that if it wasn't for NCLB would have been left behind

Big thanks.
Bridget, where do you live? I am considering to move LOL.
DD"s previous teachers emphasized on decoding, teaching new words without context.
Until this year, her teacher told me she is emphasizing on comprehension, predicting, making inferences, summarizing, making connections (she must be your twin). I myself is looking into LMB's visualizing and verbalizing techniques and reading "Strategies that Work: Teaching Comprehension to Enhance Understanding"

I constantly discussed strategies with her current teacher, I would question why most of the suggestions she gave were't used in earlier grade. The poor teacher couldn't really defend her colleague..

 

[fac]

If that is the case then I find it hard to believe that the blame falls only on the teachers. How could every teacher in that district be that bad and if they are then why didn't the administration "weed" them out in their first few years on the job? It sounds like this school failure belongs to everyone (teachers, parents, administration, etc.). I'd like to hear the other side of the story too.

Not hannathy, not telcogirl nor the other side here..

I don't think any of us believed all teachers in the same school are bad, hence I think some will be rehired. Wasn't the principal fired as well? It is very difficult to weed out the bad teachers, I live in a very "good" school district, I certainly have seen my share of bad teachers. Then there are those who worked hard in the first few years..
Probably we can have another thread to discuss whether people should have kids if they are not ready to teach...

I'd also like to know why teachers are not allowed to make a decent salary without taking a lot of heat for it. If a store manager makes $100,000 we don't take issue with it. Many other professions are also exempt from public ridicule. Teachers in many states (mine included) are required to have a masters degree. We are also required to participate in a specified number of professional development hours in order to maintain our certificate. Most of this is unpaid, unless the district agrees to pay. So why is there this negative vibe when some one mentions that a teacher might make $70,000?

I don't think many of us argued that teachers are not allowed to make a decent salary or whatever that salary may be..Store manager probably is not a good example for you to use, because some of us was puzzled by some teachers expecting to pay for overtime because many of us, salaried worker, worked overtime without paid all the time. Not saying it is right, but we don't complain that much. Obviously, if someone goes in the teaching thinking that it is a mom-friendly job and find out that it is not, or that they expect the district to honour the contract, I understand. But then if it were happened in my district, I know where I stand...

 

[fac]

like to see whether Obama can stand firm on this issue

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/01/AR2010030103560.html

 

[palavra]

Wow! Well, it's quite obvious that there are some real idiots on here. Some of the things I've seen written about the teaching profession are astounding to me.

Let me just clear up a few myths about teaching:

1. Many teachers have masters degrees or beyond which we pay for.

2. Good teachers work many, many hours outside the classroom.

3. Most of the teachers that I know have additional duties. For example, I am the Academic Bowl coach. Our competitions are on Saturdays. This year, one of our major competitions falls on Saturday during our spring break. Will I be compensated for this "extra" time? No, and i wouldn't expect to. it is part of my job. Oh, and since many of team sports practice right after school, I usually have at least one lunch quiz bowl practice a week.

4. Planning lessons, grading work and recording grades takes far more time than certain people seem to realize.

5. The stress level in the classroom is very high in many places. I personally know of two teachers who were attacked by students last year. One of these teachers has permanent damage from the attack. Gone are the days of "misbehavior" being gum chewing or talking in class.

6. And finally, many teachers have to deal with seeing and experiencing unspeakable things on a regular basis-sexual and physical abuse of students by parents, attempted suicides by students, etc.

It is the rare person who can put up with all this and hate teaching. Most of "those" teachers never make it past the first few years.

 

[buzz5985]

lack of a better alternative, I happen to like NCLB.. Now, I am going to see how Obama is going to change it...
Bottom line, no matter what policy, there will always be people not doing their jobs.

He hasn't been a friend to the unions, it could be interesting.

 

[gojoe]

I just want to add a bit of info. ABC 6 Providence reported last night that the average amount of sick days for a Central Falls High School teacher is 23 days per year. That's average, some teachers have less and some more. That's 12.77% of there work year out sick. They are still being paid and the school department has to pay a substitute.
Please remember this is not cometary just more information to help you form your opinion.

 

[Telcogirl]

However, for professional services provided outside of the agreed upon school year that would normally be considered part of a bargaining unit member’s regular responsibilities, such as summer ET, and IEP teams, ESY programs, guidance counselors, etc., the individual will be compensated based upon his or her prorated per diem salary.

It shall be the responsibility of the teacher to submit pay vouchers to the building principal on a bi-weekly basis.
The District shall not be prohibited from paying stipends for specific tasks related to grants and committee work. In such instances the District shall provide the Union with information on said stipends and the circumstances under which they are being offered.

$90 an hour is not jumping off the page here. . A pro-rated per diem salary does not mean that each teacher will be compensated at a rate of $90 an hour.

Have you ever been to Central Falls?

 

[Lisa_M]

I just want to add a bit of info. ABC 6 Providence reported last night that the average amount of sick days for a Central Falls High School teacher is 23 days per year. That's average, some teachers have less and some more. That's 12.77% of there work year out sick. They are still being paid and the school department has to pay a substitute.
Please remember this is not cometary just more information to help you form your opinion.

23 days is the average amount taken per year or the average amount a person has per year? If it's the latter, they may be carrying over their days and that's why they have so many.

Also averages don't always paint the clearest picture. It doesn't account for outliers, such as if a couple of teachers were out for maternity leave or an extended illness such as cancer, where they may have hired a long term sub. So the majority of teachers could be taking 10 or less per year where there may be a few out for a LOT of days and then the average is pulled up. A better way to look at this is to find out the median number of sick days taken per teacher per year, but that data may not sell the news as well as 12.77% of the work year out sick.

 

[Telcogirl]

If that is the case then I find it hard to believe that the blame falls only on the teachers. How could every teacher in that district be that bad and if they are then why didn't the administration "weed" them out in their first few years on the job? It sounds like this school failure belongs to everyone (teachers, parents, administration, etc.). I'd like to hear the other side of the story too.:

Well, this is the case in this particular school district. And a "could have/should have" mentality isn't going to fix the issue at hand. And you are correct in thinking that not every teacher in the district is that bad. How could that be? That is why this plan allows for re-hiring up to half of the teachers that were let go. It wasn't just teachers that were let go; it was the entire school administration.

Do the parents in this city have a responsibility? I truly believe that they have the biggest responsibility, but the city can't fire parents.

I'd also like to know why teachers are not allowed to make a decent salary without taking a lot of heat for it.

Here's why: Teachers make their salaries on the backs of taxpayers in this state. Well over 75% of most cities and towns budgets go to the School Department here. We have school departments suing towns for more money in this state. Where do they think this money is coming from?

What, we should have less of a police and fire presence? We should continue to let our roads deteriorate? We should cut back on our other important social services? School departments here are not living within their budgets.

A lot of of our schools are run down, dingy, non-inspiring places to be. Yet there is never any money to build a new school or even update the existing ones. One of our high schools is relying on stimulus funds to replace a leaky roof. (IMO, that whole school needs to be replaced.) Sports programs are being cut left and right.

So, one can only look around and ask: Where is all the money going? Can you not agree that is a fair question for any parent AND taxpayer to ask?

Listen, teacher salaries are being publicized. The maintenance budgets are not out there like the salary and benefit package is. A lot of people have a real hard time feeling sympathy for a profession that has the salary and benefits that these teachers do. Especially in times like these, where people are doing everything they can to keep their heads above water. And, oh by the way, guess how those salaries and those benefits are funded?

And, personally, when I see this particular situation in Central Falls (failing schools and generously paid teaching staff)I am going to form a very strong opinion on that.

Like I said before, I'd like to hear both sides of the story.

I would LOVE to hear from teacher from Central Falls on this topic on this board.

 

[disneyandme]

I am not impressed by the ABC providence news using statistics to fuel the fire. If more than 1/2 of the teachers at the school are long term teachers, they would have the most sick days. The reason teachers end up with so many sick days is that in many areas, sick days roll over. Many teachers do not take sick days unless they really, really have to because it is far more work to be out than to come in. You have to over prepare for each minute of the day, leave a back up plan and then reteach each thing when you return to make sure each child understood it. Where I worked, we had 5 sick days. If you didn't take one of those days each year and you worked for 20 years, you would have 20 sick days. This is not unusual for long term empoyees when days roll over. My Dad had over 200 days or sick/vacation when he retired because he rarely took a day off.

 

[daughtersrus]

I just want to add a bit of info. ABC 6 Providence reported last night that the average amount of sick days for a Central Falls High School teacher is 23 days per year. That's average, some teachers have less and some more. That's 12.77% of there work year out sick. They are still being paid and the school department has to pay a substitute.
Please remember this is not cometary just more information to help you form your opinion.

The contract provides them with 15 sick days per year. If they have more than that, it is because they did not use them in the previous years and have carried them over.

A. Sick Leave/Family Illness Policy

Fifteen (15) days per year cumulative to one hundred eighty (185) days shall be granted for personal illness or for family illness of members of a teacher’s immediate family. Immediate family shall mean: husband, wife, son, daughter, mother, father, sister, brother, father-in-law, mother-in-law, or any other person residing in the immediate household.

 

[Telcogirl]

The contract provides them with 15 sick days per year. If they have more than that, it is because they did not use them in the previous years and have carried them over.

A. Sick Leave/Family Illness Policy

Fifteen (15) days per year cumulative to one hundred eighty (185) days shall be granted for personal illness or for family illness of members of a teacher’s immediate family. Immediate family shall mean: husband, wife, son, daughter, mother, father, sister, brother, father-in-law, mother-in-law, or any other person residing in the immediate household.

Does the contract provide a cash payout upon retirement of unused sick days? I am only asking you, because you are quoting from it and I do not have a copy of it.

 

[fac]

I am not impressed by the ABC providence news using statistics to fuel the fire. If more than 1/2 of the teachers at the school are long term teachers, they would have the most sick days. The reason teachers end up with so many sick days is that in many areas, sick days roll over. Many teachers do not take sick days unless they really, really have to because it is far more work to be out than to come in. You have to over prepare for each minute of the day, leave a back up plan and then reteach each thing when you return to make sure each child understood it. Where I worked, we had 5 sick days. If you didn't take one of those days each year and you worked for 20 years, you would have 20 sick days. This is not unusual for long term empoyees when days roll over. My Dad had over 200 days or sick/vacation when he retired because he rarely took a day off.

WOW!! I didn't know that.. Ever since my first "real" job, I was told and had told people the same that sick days were not entitlement. In fact, I do not recall having a job that allowed me to carry over sick days. I do recall co-workers counting the sick days to take them before end of year.
Now that you bring it up, I think it does happen in a few professionss...

 

[andrews_dad]

I sorta like watching this train wreck of a thread... and it is on the budget board no less?? The modertors must enjoy watching it too, since they've allowed it to go on this long here!!

Teachers unite!!

 

[daughtersrus]

$90 an hour is not jumping off the page here. . A pro-rated per diem salary does not mean that each teacher will be compensated at a rate of $90 an hour.

Have you ever been to Central Falls?

The breakdown of the per diem rate was posted either on this thread or the one on the Community Board. I tried using the search feature but I couldn't find the exact post. Both threads are pretty long and I'm sorry but I don't have the time to reread both threads.