To recline or not to recline...

[Disneypro1]

This is comical. Talk about first world issue we all have. I still will recline though. As others have said. My seat, i paid for it. I’m allowed to recline. I will. Life goes on.

 

[wvjules]

No, people bought access to their tray table, and access to their television, and if you're reclining, you might be reducing that access.

Also, cool, since you didn't buy space, it's alright if I put my luggage in what would ordinarily be where you'd put yours, right?

The TV and tray table are still usable when the seat in front of them is reclined. However, those are not what was purchased. A seat that gets you from point A to point B was purchased.

People use bin space that isn't theirs all the time so sure, have at it.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Right but you weren't doing anything out of spite, you didn't react to the passenger's behavior and say "well right back at ya too"

So I would consider your situation way different than the other poster's You even attempted to be pleasant to no avail as the passenger would not wake up. The passenger likely yelled out at you for being a jerk because all they saw/felt was a person jerking on their seat with no context. Reactionary on their part though of course.

Yeah, I understand the situations were a little bit different. I'm wondering though how many posters have dealt with something like this though (maybe not exact situation but something in which they tried to be considerate and still got yelled at) and it colors their perception. Like for instance with mine, if I were to say well I tried to be nice, but it didn't work so what's the point trying to be nice next time. Then next time I'm in that situation, I make no effort to be considerate and push on the seat as I'm going past. Then the person whose seat I just pushed gets the impression that I'm a jerk and decides everyone else is too so why should they be polite either.

It just seems like a lot of this is probably a cycle where people figure why should I be nice cuz someone else is probably going to be rude. I think it causes a lot of the divisiveness in this issue and keeps people from trying to be considerate or willing to compromise.

 

[DisneyKoyote]

Oh my goodness! This! So much this! I bought a seat! My seat reclines. No one bought "space"!

Indeed the situation would be solved if the airline had strict definitions of exactly what you paid for hahaa. But I think with the layout of the plane (as someone also mentioned the tray/tv is part of the prior person's chair), it's probably more complex than we think.

 

[MarkLT1]

The TV and tray table are still usable when the seat in front of them is reclined. However, those are not what was purchased. A seat that gets you from point A to point B was purchased.

People use bin space that isn't theirs all the time so sure, have at it.

Ok.. so I've got a lot of airline status, and am usually one of the first on the plane. How would you feel if you were my seat neighbor, and I decided to stow my brief case and personal items under the seat in front of you? After all, you bought the seat, and not the space, and hey.. I was first on the plane.. finders keepers and all that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Ok.. so I've got a lot of airline status, and am usually one of the first on the plane. How would you feel if you were my seat neighbor, and I decided to stow my brief case and personal items under the seat in front of you? After all, you bought the seat, and not the space, and hey.. I was first on the plane.. finders keepers and all that.

The language on airlines is usually pretty clear..under your (or the) seat in front of you.

But you kinda sound a certain way by bringing up your airline status like that has any bearing on your decision to put your briefcase and personal item under the seat in front of the seat next to you.

 

[MarkLT1]

The language on airlines is usually pretty clear..under your seat in front of you .

But you kinda sound a certain way by bringing up your airline status like that has any bearing on your decision to put your briefcase and personal item under the seat in front of the seat next to you.

Apologies if I came across as rude for mentioning my status, that was not my intent. The only reason I brought it up, was due to the fact that I am typically on a plane earlier, and more often than not, my neighbor seat is still empty when I sit down. Would I ever attempt to put my stuff under the seat next to me? No! Should me getting on the plane earlier give me access to the "space" of another person, just because they only purchased a "seat" not "space"? Of course not. All I was pointing out is we're all crammed in this tiny plane together. To make the claim "I bought a seat not space, technicality!" is a somewhat weak argument.

This will be my last post in this thread, because it has clearly run it its course. All I am advocating for is, think about your fellow passenger a bit. Flying is pretty miserable these days for everyone. If you end up in a seat that for some reason or another reclines way more than it probably should.. only recline it partially. If someone in front of you reclines, do you have the right to punch their seat? No way! Does having a little thought for the people around you help to make flying better for everyone? Yes.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

do you pay for a seat or a space? if you pay for a seat, you should be able to recline in that seat. if you pay for a space, you shouldn't have people recline into your space. so do you pick out a seat or a space? answer that question and the problem is solved. do you say, I have space 19b or seat 19 b. I think this solves the issue. you can all thank me later. now can we please resurrect a couple zombie threads?

Yes, you're officially paying for the seat. The expectation is there though that it includes the area between your seat and the next and many people who are tall take that space into consideration when determining airline and seat location. If the advertised pitch between seats is 32", I think the expectation would be to then have a seat with 32" leg room. When that's reduced by someone reclining, you are getting less than advertised and less than expected when you purchased the ticket. That can certainly cause issues with someone who purchases a seat knowing that the advertised 32" will work for them so there's no need to purchase a seat with additional legroom, but then ends up with less legroom and a seat digging into their knees when someone reclined.

When you purchase a seat you are not guaranteed an ability to recline. You can sure make every effort to increase your chances by choosing an airline that offers reclining seats and not choosing the last row or row in front of an exit row which won't recline, but there's still a chance that your seat can be changed or that the recline function does not work. If your seat does recline, I agree that you should have the right to use it, but it also stands to reason that the legroom you expected when purchasing the ticket (based off of what the airline actively advertises) will not change, so I think your argument is a little flawed.

 

[ashley0139]

It's funny how the people who want to recline call those that don't want to recline "entitled" and are so sad for the state of the world being entitled for not wanting others to recline, but then have no comment on the attitude of "I can do it and I will do it and I don't care how it affects anyone around me" being a sad state of the world when we don't consider anyone else. I'd much rather consider how my actions affect those around me and be called "entitled" for preferring that others don't recline in front of me.

 

[sam_gordon]

When that's reduced by someone reclining, you are getting less than advertised and less than expected when you purchased the ticket.

Why would it be less than expected? Do you not know the seat in front of you might recline? Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

I'll admit I don't fly much, but when I do, I try to find out how much a seat truly reclines. As I posted a picture earlier, all the ones I've tried have been maybe 2-3" at the top, so by the time you get to knee height, it should be less than an inch.

 

[MissStitch626]

Every international flight I've been on has made people put their seats upright during a full meal service.

This has usually been my experience as well but I've still seen the occasional time where someone's had to be asked multiple times, or have otherwise made a bigger deal of it than seemed necessary.

I remember a couple of years ago we were boarding the flight and a gentleman in the seat in front had reclined his seat all the way back before the plane has finished boarding, making it difficult for anyone in the row behind to take our seats. The man was asked by me, another passenger and two different members of the flight crew to put his seat up before he finally moved. Same routine again for in-flight meal. Even his wife was getting annoyed with him.

Personally I'd like to see all airlines add a section to the safety video - "Flying Etiquette: How To Avoid Being Passenger Shamed On The Internet."

 

[sam_gordon]

It's funny how the people who want to recline call those that don't want to recline "entitled" and are so sad for the state of the world being entitled for not wanting others to recline, but then have no comment on the attitude of "I can do it and I will do it and I don't care how it affects anyone around me" being a sad state of the world when we don't consider anyone else. I'd much rather consider those around me and be called "entitled" for preferring that others don't recline in front of me.

BOTH sides are acting entitled. Arguing on a message board gets you no where. Argue with the airline. If you don't want someone reclining in front of you, select a seat behind a bulkhead or exit row. Problem solved.

 

[Moliphino]

This has usually been my experience as well but I've still seen the occasional time where someone's had to be asked multiple times, or have otherwise made a bigger deal of it than seemed necessary.

I remember a couple of years ago we were boarding the flight and a gentleman in the seat in front had reclined his seat all the way back before the plane has finished boarding, making it difficult for anyone in the row behind to take our seats. The man was asked by me, another passenger and two different members of the flight crew to put his seat up before he finally moved. Same routine again for in-flight meal. Even his wife was getting annoyed with him.

Personally I'd like to see all airlines add a section to the safety video - "Flying Etiquette: How To Avoid Being Passenger Shamed On The Internet."

Oh yeah, there will always be the occasional person who just DOES NOT CARE and thinks rules don't apply to them.
I had one flight where people were up and moving around during taxi/takeoff and it gave me such anxiety! At that point even the flight attendants were buckled in so there was nobody there to come make them sit down.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Why would it be less than expected? Do you not know the seat in front of you might recline? Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

I'll admit I don't fly much, but when I do, I try to find out how much a seat truly reclines. As I posted a picture earlier, all the ones I've tried have been maybe 2-3" at the top, so by the time you get to knee height, it should be less than an inch.

People with a fair amount of relatively recent flying experience likely know that a reclining seats will decrease their leg room, but someone who doesn't fly a lot or hasn't flown recently or is flying for the first time on an airline that has reclining seats or less legroom may not. Airlines advertise their seat pitch/leg room, but they don't advertise that someone reclining their seat in front of you may decrease that legroom. While I agree that people should do their due diligence in research, I wouldn't expect an inexperienced flyer to automatically realize that's something they would need to research.

Many airlines have reduced their seat recline to only 2 or 3 inches so I do agree that in some cases it's not as big of a deal, but some do still have a fairly large recline ability. How much it affects the person behind them really depends on that person's individual dimensions. Even though the 3" at the top of the seat will be less near the bottom and hypothetically shouldn't affect the knee space as much, everyone has different foot to knee lengths. For some people, their knees when sitting flat footed go half way up the back of the seat, making even the smallest of seat recline that much more impactful on them. Then if their knee to hip length is also long, that leaves them with their knees going even higher on the back of the seat.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Apologies if I came across as rude for mentioning my status, that was not my intent. The only reason I brought it up, was due to the fact that I am typically on a plane earlier, and more often than not, my neighbor seat is still empty when I sit down. Would I ever attempt to put my stuff under the seat next to me? No! Should me getting on the plane earlier give me access to the "space" of another person, just because they only purchased a "seat" not "space"? Of course not. All I was pointing out is we're all crammed in this tiny plane together. To make the claim "I bought a seat not space, technicality!" is a somewhat weak argument.

This will be my last post in this thread, because it has clearly run it its course. All I am advocating for is, think about your fellow passenger a bit. Flying is pretty miserable these days for everyone. If you end up in a seat that for some reason or another reclines way more than it probably should.. only recline it partially. If someone in front of you reclines, do you have the right to punch their seat? No way! Does having a little thought for the people around you help to make flying better for everyone? Yes.

No apology necessary just combined with the rest of the statement came off a certain way. I get what you're meaning.

As far as advocating I for one have been saying that we all need consideration and mentioned previously about reclining a tad vs full on or for the entire flight; ironically though I see way more less consideration on one side than the other..and it's not the side you'd think.

I think I just look at it differently. When people saying "having a little thought for the people around you help to make flying better for everyone? Yes." I think that can absolutely be so applied to both sides. Unfortunately only 1 side is being told that by the comments. That consideration goes both ways.

One can easily spin the recline as "If it makes someone else more comfortable..." and instead rather than consider their own comfort first (as in their space whatever that space may be taken up by a recline) go the route of allowing someone else comfort (as in allow the person with no ill feelings recline). Being kind to others isn't defined just one way

 

[luvsJack]

No apology necessary just combined with the rest of the statement came off a certain way. I get what you're meaning.

As far as advocating I for one have been saying that we all need consideration and mentioned previously about reclining a tad vs full on or for the entire flight; ironically though I see way more less consideration on one side than the other..and it's not the side you'd think.

I think I just look at it differently. When people saying "having a little thought for the people around you help to make flying better for everyone? Yes." I think that can absolutely be so applied to both sides. Unfortunately only 1 side is being told that by the comments. That consideration goes both ways.

One can easily spin the recline as "If it makes someone else more comfortable..." and instead rather than consider their own comfort first (as in their space whatever that space may be taken up by a recline) go the route of allowing someone else comfort (as in allow the person with no ill feelings recline). Being kind to others isn't defined just one way

"If it makes someone more comfortable" is all well and great. It would be fantastic for everyone to be that thoughtful. Except for one thing--are they having to be that thoughtful at their own expense? Is letting someone be more comfortable encroaching on their own comfort?

The person sitting in their seat and not reclining isn't effecting that person in front of them at all. The person reclining may very well be effecting the person behind them. There is just a HUGE difference in the amount of consideration one should give the other.

And yes, I read your earlier post about getting up and down and taking up more space across, etc. BUT I am strictly talking about reclining seats here.

 

[Disneypro1]

Now when my poop throwing service monkey gets out of hand. Will anyone complain? The primate gives me the help I need.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

"If it makes someone more comfortable" is all well and great. It would be fantastic for everyone to be that thoughtful. Except for one thing--are they having to be that thoughtful at their own expense? Is letting someone be more comfortable encroaching on their own comfort?

The person sitting in their seat and not reclining isn't effecting that person in front of them at all. The person reclining may very well be effecting the person behind them. There is just a HUGE difference in the amount of consideration one should give the other.

And yes, I read your earlier post about getting up and down and taking up more space across, etc. BUT I am strictly talking about reclining seats here.

I once sat in the middle of 2 people for over 4 hour flight with my arms in an uncomfortable position because both were using the arm rests too much. I chose to let them be more comfortable over mine own comfort. Would I do that for every flight? No but I opted to for that flight.

Too much in-depth thought here on the recline here and space and whatever. I'm saying whether it affects you or not you can opt to let them have their own comfort as a means of consideration towards other people. I guess I disagreed that the only method to giving someone consideration is towards one group and one group only which is the subtle and at times not subtle thing being said. And like I said I rarely recline myself I just see it in different ways--that and I'm already used to SWA where space..what space haha.

I actually don't think there's a huge difference. Claiming so means you're sticking your feet in the mud, no room for any consideration..on your part..for someone else because at that point you're saying "yeah I don't care you're in my biz so to speak (by virtue of reclining) who cares about you I care about me". It's just a different way to spin it is all.

 

[kaytieeldr]

If my seat is able to recline into that space, then isn't it my space now? I paid for that seat with that function. I should be able to use it without guilt or shame.

Your airfare includes the space under the seat in front of you, he spaces between the back of the seat in front of you (so tv screen and tray table) to the back of your seat, the area between the arm rests, and the open area aboe your seat to the bottom of the overhead bin.

 

[AmyFarrahFowler]

I hate it when the person in front of me reclines. We all have our pet peeves. My experience has been when they recline the seat never goes back as far as they like to so there is pushing back on the seat to get it to lean back farther. Very annoying. I try to make sure I always sit in the exit row so the person in front of me cannot recline.