To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[Dis5150]

Nice recap Billy! I am also impressed by your recall! I'm with the others on race memory, "I saw some people and stuff happened, lol....". I'm glad you enjoyed your race, even if it wasn't what you planned a year ago. You made the best out of your situation and had a great race, that is something a lot of people couldn't do. And I think it is 100% your attitude.

 

[canglim52]

Appreciate the mental aspect discussions. Seems like 23-26 are going to be really rough. I'm not the type of person to lean into pain so I may need to train for that.

Your brain and the language we use, craft the reality we experience... so if you say I’m not that kind of person, you’ve built resistance to being anything else. It’s not easy, but we all have it in ourselves to lean in! A trick I use, is to remind my self why I’m doing it. So when I’m hurting, I’ll tell my self pain is just adaptation in progress.... the more it hurts(good pain of course) the more gains I’m making!! or think about how happy/proud you’ll be if you complete a challenging interval. Or think how bummed you’ll be if you stop and realize you had more to give. It takes practice and it won’t always be perfect, but it’s so worth it! And it really helps in all parts of my life now too, not just running

 

[BikeFan]

Appreciate the mental aspect discussions. Seems like 23-26 are going to be really rough. I'm not the type of person to lean into pain so I may need to train for that.

How you experience the final miles is going to depend on your training and your goal. If your training goes well and your goal is just to finish and enjoy the experience, it's quite possible miles 23-26 are not much different from the earlier ones, and you're never in significant pain. Plenty of ordinary runners have mastered the marathon enough that merely completing 26.2 miles is relatively easy for them. A runner in my club has done 180+ full marathons and has plans for many more. On the other hand, if your training goes poorly, even a goal of just finishing could be tough, and of course if your goal involves a target time which challenges you, the final miles will be tough even if you're fully-trained.

 

[avondale]

I have seen it but not used it. Might be something to consider as I start making decisions on what to do next.

@Keels and I discussed this a bit. Fitzgerald is a very "hard sell" kind of guy and his sales tactics really turned me off, so I ultimately didn't get the program when I was really almost ready to shell out for it with a little more consideration. @Keels (it doesn't seem to be tagging for some reason?) said she knew a running coach who had a similar type of training plan and shared it. It is definitely fairly time-intensive (I would say 75 min 2x per week) and equipment-intensive. I cut out a few things that I was doing in other places and adapted a bit to equipment. I did that for maybe 10 weeks. Ultimately I couldn't stick with the time commitment.

It did, however, give me a few new exercises to use and made me re-think the emphasis I place on different muscle groups, so I've kept that in consideration in building the current routine that I'm using. (Background: I've been doing pretty serious strength training for 10+ years. I got into strength before tennis or running. So I have some moderate knowledge.) Also, it confirmed the idea that heavy weights and low reps can be beneficial to strength training for running.

If you're relatively new to doing total-body strength training, then you'll see gains pretty quickly with a pretty basic program. Especially since you're male. An array of dumbbells (or a set of the ones that you can dial in a weight) and a pull-up bar will get you a long way. Focus on compound moves, which is a time-saver, especially since you're not looking to build a "physique" but are looking for functional strength.

 

[Keels]

@Keels and I discussed this a bit. Fitzgerald is a very "hard sell" kind of guy and his sales tactics really turned me off, so I ultimately didn't get the program when I was really almost ready to shell out for it with a little more consideration. @Keels (it doesn't seem to be tagging for some reason?) said she knew a running coach who had a similar type of training plan and shared it. It is definitely fairly time-intensive (I would say 75 min 2x per week) and equipment-intensive. I cut out a few things that I was doing in other places and adapted a bit to equipment. I did that for maybe 10 weeks. Ultimately I couldn't stick with the time commitment.

It did, however, give me a few new exercises to use and made me re-think the emphasis I place on different muscle groups, so I've kept that in consideration in building the current routine that I'm using. (Background: I've been doing pretty serious strength training for 10+ years. I got into strength before tennis or running. So I have some moderate knowledge.) Also, it confirmed the idea that heavy weights and low reps can be beneficial to strength training for running.

If you're relatively new to doing total-body strength training, then you'll see gains pretty quickly with a pretty basic program. Especially since you're male. An array of dumbbells (or a set of the ones that you can dial in a weight) and a pull-up bar will get you a long way. Focus on compound moves, which is a time-saver, especially since you're not looking to build a "physique" but are looking for functional strength.

It’s so crazy that you posted this because I was JUST thinking about you and how the strength plan was going - now that I’m fully cleared for all activity, I was working on my weekly plans for the coming weeks (including that strength plan from my CC coach friend) and I remembered you and I chatting about it.

 

[dis_or_dat]

@canglim52 and @BikeFan thanks for the recommendations. I think I train properly (thanks to @DopeyBadger ) but my race day strategy needs a lot of work. I go too fast at the beginning and fade at the end. Plus, I have no idea how to fuel properly since I don't during my training runs. It hurts me in my halfs, but can be disastrous for the marathon. Sorry for hijacking @DopeyBadger !

 

[dis_or_dat]

I keep hearing about these 4% shoes? Had no idea they were vaporflys! Anyways, curious to see what you think:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/07/18/upshot/nike-vaporfly-shoe-strava.html

 

[garneska]

I go too fast at the beginning and fade at the end. Plus, I have no idea how to fuel properly since I don't during my training runs. It hurts me in my halfs, but can be disastrous for the marathon. Sorry for hijacking @DopeyBadger !

I was afraid of going too fast at Chicago so I put a pace in my head and said stick to it. Funny first two miles were right on and mile 3 was fast, I think it was because I was good and warmed up at that point. I tend to rely on my watch to keep me in check. As for fuel it is also something I struggle with. Had I missed my goal in Chicago, that was were I was going to start was at fuel. Unfortunately you have to do it on training runs and like you I tend to not bother. For Chicago I did one gel, Huma, and then two 8 oz bottles of Infinite, electrolytes mixed how I prefer and flavor. Stuff is expensive but it’s powder so it lasts a long time. I have a tailwind sample and am looking forward to trying that during 50k training.

 

[bovie]

I will give one more nod for Yoga with Adrienne. I'm also curious on how you're planning to integrate 80 Day Obsession with your running? I really like a lot of the Beachbody programs and have wanted to do this one, but thought it might be too intense to do during a training cycle.

 

[dis_or_dat]

I was afraid of going too fast at Chicago so I put a pace in my head and said stick to it. Funny first two miles were right on and mile 3 was fast, I think it was because I was good and warmed up at that point. I tend to rely on my watch to keep me in check. As for fuel it is also something I struggle with. Had I missed my goal in Chicago, that was were I was going to start was at fuel. Unfortunately you have to do it on training runs and like you I tend to not bother. For Chicago I did one gel, Huma, and then two 8 oz bottles of Infinite, electrolytes mixed how I prefer and flavor. Stuff is expensive but it’s powder so it lasts a long time. I have a tailwind sample and am looking forward to trying that during 50k training.

1 gel for the entire marathon? I bought a huma gel just to see how it goes. I didn't realize the gels/gu were so huge! Did you carry the 2 bottles of Infinite with you during your marathon?

 

[Miranda]

1 gel for the entire marathon? I bought a huma gel just to see how it goes. I didn't realize the gels/gu were so huge! Did you carry the 2 bottles of Infinite with you during your marathon?

The Huma packets are bigger than Gu or Honey Stinger brand... I don't know about other brands, but the Huma ones are abnormally big.

 

[PkbaughAR]

Following this! I am so interested to read about the mental aspects of longer distances - only some 10k races to date for me. (But a long-time lurker!)

 

[garneska]

1 gel for the entire marathon? I bought a huma gel just to see how it goes. I didn't realize the gels/gu were so huge! Did you carry the 2 bottles of Infinite with you during your marathon?

Yes one huma and brought 3 with. I had two 8 oz bottles with infinite. I had about a quarter left in the 2nd one. My huma was normal size, I don’t have the big one. I really, really considered a second huma at mile 22. I was not sure if it would help or hurt. Still not sure. I have been running marathons since 1999 (consistently sincde 2005) and have not nailed down nutrition. That is why if I did not hits my goal, that was what I was focusing on next. I wish there was a silver bullet, but I knew I had that gel at mile 11 and was concerned it would bite me if I did another at 22. I have experimented with a few things and huma seems to be the easiest on my system. Other brands of gel very bad, sport beans were awful, did ok with cliff blocks but tended not to eat them. I do honey stinger waffles when I bike, have not tried during a run.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I'm actually trying to find another Florida marathon to try to run for time, I'll have to keep Celebration in mind! I've got Goofy and have been dealing with a leg issue, so like you it's kind of wait and see.

Sounds like a plan to me. It'll be 2020 for me if Disney/Celebration happens.

Nice recap Billy! I am also impressed by your recall! I'm with the others on race memory, "I saw some people and stuff happened, lol....". I'm glad you enjoyed your race, even if it wasn't what you planned a year ago. You made the best out of your situation and had a great race, that is something a lot of people couldn't do. And I think it is 100% your attitude.

Thanks!

I go too fast at the beginning and fade at the end.

Sounds like we want to drive home the Progressions again. Force you to go slow in the beginning so you can handle the late pacing. If you don't hit the late pacing in the training runs, then it'll help reinforce to yourself that you need to slow down more to handle them. Going too fast in the beginning of a marathon can really make the back-half tough. The marathon pacing scheme feels more like holding back for so much of the race rather than pushing really anytime until the late end.

I keep hearing about these 4% shoes? Had no idea they were vaporflys! Anyways, curious to see what you think:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/07/18/upshot/nike-vaporfly-shoe-strava.html

Yes, everything I've read about them makes them seem real to me. It won't be dramatic, but it can make a difference if the shoe is right for you. The tough part is getting your hands on a pair.

I was afraid of going too fast at Chicago so I put a pace in my head and said stick to it. Funny first two miles were right on and mile 3 was fast, I think it was because I was good and warmed up at that point. I tend to rely on my watch to keep me in check. As for fuel it is also something I struggle with. Had I missed my goal in Chicago, that was were I was going to start was at fuel. Unfortunately you have to do it on training runs and like you I tend to not bother. For Chicago I did one gel, Huma, and then two 8 oz bottles of Infinite, electrolytes mixed how I prefer and flavor. Stuff is expensive but it’s powder so it lasts a long time. I have a tailwind sample and am looking forward to trying that during 50k training.

The necessity of carb consumption in racing can be so individual. A matter of metabolic efficiency and the relationship between pacing and carb/fat burning. It's pretty incredible that you were able to run the marathon so close to peak performance while simultaneously taking in so few in-race carbs. Suggests you must have a pretty high fat burning ratio to pace.

I will give one more nod for Yoga with Adrienne. I'm also curious on how you're planning to integrate 80 Day Obsession with your running? I really like a lot of the Beachbody programs and have wanted to do this one, but thought it might be too intense to do during a training cycle.

I'll be able to balance 80-day obsession and training this upcoming cycle most likely because I won't be training for anything specific. I'll know better what my body can handle once I get into it. But a mixture of 80-day obsession and biking is probably what I'll be doing.

Following this! I am so interested to read about the mental aspects of longer distances - only some 10k races to date for me. (But a long-time lurker!)

out of lurkdom and stick around a while! The mental aspect come race day can be nearly as important as the physical aspect. Here's one of my favorite things I've written about the mental side of endurance running (towards the end):

Eureka! The Quintessential Running Post

 

[TeeterTots]

I will give one more nod for Yoga with Adrienne. I'm also curious on how you're planning to integrate 80 Day Obsession with your running? I really like a lot of the Beachbody programs and have wanted to do this one, but thought it might be too intense to do during a training cycle.

Have you tried 21 day fix? I’ve done multiple cycles especially while training. I’m cautious towards the end so I don’t strain anything too close to s race but I’ve found no matter how sore my legs are (ie can’t walk up/down the stairs or try to sit down) I always run stronger. I do find that days 15-21 get a bit crazy with doubles (2 workouts/day) and running 60-90+ minutes. Just my two cents!

 

[PkbaughAR]

out of lurkdom and stick around a while! The mental aspect come race day can be nearly as important as the physical aspect. Here's one of my favorite things I've written about the mental side of endurance running (towards the end):

Eureka! The Quintessential Running Post

My science background loves to try to process all this math! (Sorry @Keels)! How can I contact you about a customized training plan?

 

[DopeyBadger]

My science background loves to try to process all this math! (Sorry @Keels)! How can I contact you about a customized training plan?

Hooray science! Once you get to 10 posts (one more), then you can send me a PM (Inbox or Start a Conversation).

 

[Keels]

My science background loves to try to process all this math! (Sorry @Keels)! How can I contact you about a customized training plan?

I only like math if I’m getting paid to do it ...

I think lots of people would be surprised to know I have two math-related degrees and just got accepted into a PhD program for a third ...

 

[PkbaughAR]

I only like math if I’m getting paid to do it ...

This...Most definitely this!! Now it makes my brain hurt!!

 

[Chaitali]

Just catching up on the recaps. Congratulations on what sounds like a really tough race!