To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[DopeyBadger]

Chicago Hotel room is booked!



We ended up going with the Chicago Athletic Association Hotel. Ranked as #18 in Chicago, was middle of the road in terms of cost, and was in the center of our desired locations (race, Aquarium, Mag Mile, and Children's Museum).

http://www.chicagoathletichotel.com

Beautiful rooftop restaurant:

Very hipster looking...

 

[roxymama]

Those hotel pics look really cool. The lobby is giving me Tower of Terror vibes (but like minus all the cobwebs and terror.)
Excited for y'all!

Edited to add: just realized we went to a wedding reception here this summer and it is in a good location.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Those hotel pics look really cool. The lobby is giving me Tower of Terror vibes (but like minus all the cobwebs and terror.)
Excited for y'all!

Edited to add: just realized we went to a wedding reception here this summer and it is in a good location.

Glad to hear it gets your stamp of approval!

 

[Sailormoon2]

That hotel looks awesome!!

 

[DopeyBadger]

That hotel looks awesome!!

We're excited!

 

[ZellyB]

Love the look of that hotel!! How far is the walk to the start from there?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Love the look of that hotel!! How far is the walk to the start from there?

4-5 minute walk

 

[garneska]

Time for an update. I wanted to see how my run today went before I shared. On the running front, Thursday I finally went outside it was a 5 miler. My last run on Tuesday on the TM felt good so I was ready to try outside, which meant hills. Thankfully for 5 I can do a fairly flat course with minor hills. It was all good. Friday was at the therapist. We started on the TM so she could watch my gait. What we learned, or maybe the first thing to address as you can only do some many changes at once. My run cadence was at 160. I looked at my garmin and in general my runs have an average cadence of 162. I am sure dopeybadger already knows this, but 180 is the magic number. Also they found that if your cadence is less than 165 your risk of injury is greater. She setup a metronome and put it at 170 and said match it. It definitely took some adjustment but looking at the video it helps my form a lot. Now I need to practice. I got myself my free metronome app and sound like a crazy person running but it's helpful. I just have to keep my pace down. My run Saturday had an average cadence of 163, but today I focused more and it was LR pace not EB and managed 166 for average. Need to keep working on it but I can do it. Saturday I did 6 with hills. It was ok, a little tough. Today went very well. I was a little fast and was focusing on cadence. I did 6.5 as the PT did not want me going to crazy, but said walking was fine, so I did 6.5 and then walked for 2 miles. I did this because DH is following my training plan for his first marathon. He had 10 miles to do. We finished at the same time so it was perfect. I felt like I could do 10, but I did not think that was a good idea.

My goal for Disney finish the 10k and the Marathon healthy and ready to train for Chicago. On the Chicago note, I finally got my acceptance, was afraid my race was not a qualifier but I got it. We then booked the hotel. Hilton Chicago. It's close to start and finish and DH has a lot of Hilton points from work, since we don't stay in hotels much because of Mallory, I was glad to use them. At least it will feel better on the wallet when I have to pay to park.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Time for an update. I wanted to see how my run today went before I shared. On the running front, Thursday I finally went outside it was a 5 miler. My last run on Tuesday on the TM felt good so I was ready to try outside, which meant hills. Thankfully for 5 I can do a fairly flat course with minor hills. It was all good. Friday was at the therapist. We started on the TM so she could watch my gait. What we learned, or maybe the first thing to address as you can only do some many changes at once. My run cadence was at 160. I looked at my garmin and in general my runs have an average cadence of 162. I am sure dopeybadger already knows this, but 180 is the magic number. Also they found that if your cadence is less than 165 your risk of injury is greater. She setup a metronome and put it at 170 and said match it. It definitely took some adjustment but looking at the video it helps my form a lot. Now I need to practice. I got myself my free metronome app and sound like a crazy person running but it's helpful. I just have to keep my pace down. My run Saturday had an average cadence of 163, but today I focused more and it was LR pace not EB and managed 166 for average. Need to keep working on it but I can do it. Saturday I did 6 with hills. It was ok, a little tough. Today went very well. I was a little fast and was focusing on cadence. I did 6.5 as the PT did not want me going to crazy, but said walking was fine, so I did 6.5 and then walked for 2 miles. I did this because DH is following my training plan for his first marathon. He had 10 miles to do. We finished at the same time so it was perfect. I felt like I could do 10, but I did not think that was a good idea.

I agree that increasing the cadence will likely be helpful. As per my instructions:

Foot strike - The general recommendation is to have about 180 steps per minute or more. To have this many steps per minute, it forces you to take smaller, shorter strides and quicker foot movements. You can measure this with a phone app metronome or have someone watch you run and count. Your Garmin measures this. Foot strike during the easy running (LR or EA) is still important for reducing injury risk by making sure it is light-footed. Don't force this too much. Gradually over time find your happy place for cadence with a nice quick stride. Having your foot fall underneath your torso is the most important part because overstriding tends to lead to injuries.

There's nothing necessarily special about 180 vs 178 vs 182. Just that a quicker footstrike is better if you keep the foot fall location underneath your torso. When people have a lower cadence, they tend to make up for it with allowing the foot to fall further ahead of their body (thus overstriding and increase in injury). The pace at which you run dictates what a good cadence is, since running a 13 min/mile and having a cadence of 180 steps per min is difficult (and likely counterproductive). So I like to say think of the ground as hot lava. Constantly move the feet with as little ground contact time as possible. In addition, think of your stride like a ninja. Quick and silent. The more noise, the more force you lose to sound and not returned back into your legs (like springs).

Just make this transition slowly to allow all your muscles to catch up to these changes.

My goal for Disney finish the 10k and the Marathon healthy and ready to train for Chicago. On the Chicago note, I finally got my acceptance, was afraid my race was not a qualifier but I got it. We then booked the hotel. Hilton Chicago. It's close to start and finish and DH has a lot of Hilton points from work, since we don't stay in hotels much because of Mallory, I was glad to use them. At least it will feel better on the wallet when I have to pay to park.

Glad to hear everything worked out!

 

[Sailormoon2]

The general recommendation is to have about 180 steps per minute or more

I realize this is a generalization but my cadence is pretty consistantly at 170. Is that just because I am running 11:00 minute-ish miles? Or should I try to have more turn over too?

 

[DopeyBadger]

I realize this is a generalization but my cadence is pretty consistantly at 170. Is that just because I am running 11:00 minute-ish miles? Or should I try to have more turn over too?

There's no good way for me to say what you should or shouldn't have. Rather instead of paying attention to the #, pay attention to hot lava and ninja feet. In most cases (but not all), it's better to have a faster cadence than not. Best way to figure out if things look good is to have someone film you at different paces and watch where the foot makes contact with the ground. Not how it strikes (fore, mid or heel), but where (in front or underneath). The slower you run the slower your cadence will be at relative paces.

I made the cadence/faster foot change in Spring 2015. During that time, I've changed my cadence from 173 to 178 to 185 at a 7:30 min/mile. That went from my 5k pace to my marathon pace. Now it's not a get rich scheme. Plenty of factors that play pivotal roles in getting better. But making your cadence quicker can yield more efficient energy use and make you faster while reducing injury risk from overstriding. Just make any changes to cadence slowly to allow the muscles to catch up.

Right now my cadence is the following:

5:00 min/mile is 208 and stride 1.50m
6:30 min/mile is 193 and stride 1.30m
7:00 min/mile is 188-190 and stride 1.19-1.22m
7:30 min/mile is 186 and stride 1.15m
8:00 min/mile is 185 and stride 1.10m
8:50 min/mile is 178 and stride 1.04m

So for different paces, I change both my cadence and stride length. But I don't choose to do either consciously. I simply try to run that given pace. But it was something I had to force early on when learning to quicken it up.

 

[Sailormoon2]

^^^It seems like I would instinctively land more on my toes, if I thought about lava/ninja...is that initially what happens?

 

[DopeyBadger]

^^^It seems like I would instinctively land more on my toes, if I thought about lava/ninja...is that initially what happens?

If that is not naturally where you currently have your foot strike relative to your foot (on toes), then you very likely do not want to have that happen. Changing your location of foot strike relative to foot can be a dangerous game to play. Just think of trying to move your feet faster as simple as it sounds. I think the change in cadence increasing comes more from my quads and hips getting through their motions and taking quick/short steps.

 

[Sailormoon2]

quads and hips getting through their motions and taking quick/short steps.

This resonates with me. And I know I don't want to change my natural foot strike. But concentrating on quads could be a good focus, as I am a predominate hamstring and glute runner, maybe that is what is "slowing" my cadence down. Food for thought.

 

[garneska]

Yep. Am just focusing on shorter strides so I can go quicker on the leg turn. I saw my before and after video. It is definitely different and my form is better when my cadence was quicker. It is tough so I just try to be conscious of it. The PT said it would take some time.

 

[avondale]

I agree that increasing the cadence will likely be helpful. As per my instructions:

Foot strike - The general recommendation is to have about 180 steps per minute or more. To have this many steps per minute, it forces you to take smaller, shorter strides and quicker foot movements. You can measure this with a phone app metronome or have someone watch you run and count. Your Garmin measures this. Foot strike during the easy running (LR or EA) is still important for reducing injury risk by making sure it is light-footed. Don't force this too much. Gradually over time find your happy place for cadence with a nice quick stride. Having your foot fall underneath your torso is the most important part because overstriding tends to lead to injuries.

There's nothing necessarily special about 180 vs 178 vs 182. Just that a quicker footstrike is better if you keep the foot fall location underneath your torso. When people have a lower cadence, they tend to make up for it with allowing the foot to fall further ahead of their body (thus overstriding and increase in injury). The pace at which you run dictates what a good cadence is, since running a 13 min/mile and having a cadence of 180 steps per min is difficult (and likely counterproductive). So I like to say think of the ground as hot lava. Constantly move the feet with as little ground contact time as possible. In addition, think of your stride like a ninja. Quick and silent. The more noise, the more force you lose to sound and not returned back into your legs (like springs).

Just make this transition slowly to allow all your muscles to catch up to these changes.



Glad to hear everything worked out!

I find that my cadence on the treadmill is a lot lower than my cadence when I run outside, at least according to my Garmin. On the treadmill, my cadence is something like 160, but outside I do run at about 180. Is there a reason this would happen to me on the treadmill? Just my body being lazy? If I concentrate while I'm on the treadmill, I can increase the cadence, but I do have to think about it. All with no change in the speed of the treadmill, which is kind of freaky. Clearly my stride length must be changing.

Could this be why I feel like running on the treadmill is harder, even with a slightly slower speed and 0 incline? I always thought it was just because it was more boring and uniform - no natural ups or downs or turns or any other changes.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I find that my cadence on the treadmill is a lot lower than my cadence when I run outside, at least according to my Garmin. On the treadmill, my cadence is something like 160, but outside I do run at about 180. Is there a reason this would happen to me on the treadmill? Just my body being lazy? If I concentrate while I'm on the treadmill, I can increase the cadence, but I do have to think about it. All with no change in the speed of the treadmill, which is kind of freaky. Clearly my stride length must be changing.

I don't have a great answer. It could be the 0 incline since from what I've read an incline of 1% is more representative of outside flat running. Could be that the treadmill is off in terms of the speed you think you're running, but a 20 step difference is quite dramatic (assuming you mean 160 treadmill and 180 outside at the assumed exact same pace)? Clearly, you don't feel the need to quicken the stride on the treadmill if equal.

Could this be why I feel like running on the treadmill is harder, even with a slightly slower speed and 0 incline? I always thought it was just because it was more boring and uniform - no natural ups or downs or turns or any other changes.

I certainly find a treadmill to be mind-numbing. I was unable to do similar paces at the same effort between treadmill and outside. But in your circumstance, I can't say for sure.

 

[DopeyBadger]

59 Days to Go (Chicago...)



Date - Day - Scheduled Workout (Intervals within desired pace)

10/30/17 - M - MBW
11/1/17 - T - 2 mi @ WU + 4 x 1 @ T w/ 1 min rest + 5 x 200 @ R w/ 200 RI @ WU + 2 mi @ CD (8/9)
11/2/17 - W - 7 miles @ 7:54-8:28 min/mile
11/3/17 - R - 3 mile WU + 6 miles @ M Tempo + 3 mile CD (X/X)
11/4/17 - F - 7 miles @ 7:54-8:28 min/mile
11/5/17 - Sat - 9 miles @ 7:54-8:28 min/mile + MBW
11/6/17 - Sun - 15 miles @ 7:35 min/mile (13/14)
11/7/17 - M - MBW

Total (training) mileage = 58.7 miles
Number of SOS intervals within pace = 21/23 (91%)

Monday

Standard medicine ball workout, but still with the 4 pound ball. Not ready to step up to the 6 pound ball yet.

Tuesday

2 mile WU + 4x1 mile @ T w/ 1 min RI + 5x200m @ R w/ 200m RI + 2 mile CD

Happy Halloween! Time for a Treat!

Daniels T Pace = 6:33 min/mile
Daniels T Window = +/-5 seconds (6:28-6:38)
Daniels R Pace = 5:28 min/mile (41 sec)
Daniels R Window = +/- 1 sec (40-42 sec) *Although I didn't follow the window today (effort based)

WC of 31, little wind, night

I was excited to try out the Daniels T pace again. Back in Spring 2017 my T pace was a 6:38 min/mile. So I was interested to see whether I was or was not capable of hitting that pace. Color me surprised.

T pace = 6:30, 6:24, 6:28, 6:32

Ummm.... yea..... so.... That 6:24 might be my 3rd best mile ever. Here's the thing though. I felt good. I was locked in. I wasn't running at 3rd best mile ever effort. It certainly felt sustainable. Always harder to keep track of the paces at night (especially Halloween night where I've got to pay attention). HR wise says the same story - 151, 154, 156, 155. NICE! The cold is very very helpful.

Now about those R paces.... Yea.... ummm.... so... about that....

R = 37.9 (?), 37.9, 39.0, 38.7, 40.3

Let's just say I enjoyed having a Halloween audience. Very Very difficult to keep tabs on this pace at night. But I felt like it was appropriate. I felt like I could have run a mile at this pace if I had to. It was suppose to be 6x200 but I guess I got quick with button pushing? The first interval is within that first lap, so I'm guessing based on peak pace it was around 37.9.

This was a VERY strong run and I'm very happy with it. Excited to see what is in store with the upcoming training cycle!

Here's the negative though... I did something to my hip. After the 200s were done, I stopped by a neighbor's Halloween fire pit and we talked about running and kids. After a few minutes (?) I wished them well and got started back up for my cool-down. But as soon as I started I could tell my hip was very sore. A similar feeling to when I mis-stepped a year or so ago and my hip flexed outwards. I wrapped up the run and then bit my tongue with hope things would be momentary.

Wednesday

The hip soreness was evident throughout the day. But if it's the same as the last time, it took just a few days to clear up and feel normal again. It felt like 70% on this run with the issues being the very start and the hills (mostly downhill). Avg pace 8:49 min/mile with HR of 132. T+D of ? (weather underground is down), pretty sure it was raining for this run.

The big news on Wednesday was that my time qualifier application was accepted for the 2018 Chicago Marathon!

Thursday

3 mile WU + 6 miles @ M Tempo + 3 mile CD

T+D of 86, cloudy, night, no wind

After Tuesday's run it was apparent that my right hip was sore. I wasn't quite sure what caused it exactly, but it's something I've had happen before. Best guess is the uneven running surface during the R pace work. In the past it's usually been when my foot falls kinda sideways underneath me and my hip pops outwards. Thankfully, if I'm right and it's the same issue as in year's past, then it it should only take a few days to clear up. The main issue it causes is I can't maintain pace down hills. Otherwise, it's just a matter of time before things are normal again. So I took the first 3 miles cautiously and the second 3 miles at pace other than hills. Happy with how it felt all considered.

Friday

No rain, but windy. Average pace of 8:33 with HR of 130.

Saturday

Another run in the rain and relatively higher wind (15-20mph?)! T+D of ?. Average pace of 8:02 with HR of 141.

Sunday

60 days to go!

T+D of 87, no wind, cloudy

Long Run Pace = 7:35 min/mile
Long Run Window = +/- 10 sec (7:25-7:45)

Today was the Madison Marathon. I walked out the door and was super envious of those running today in near perfect conditions. I thought to myself, maybe I should have been out there too. But it became apparent after a few miles that it was for the best I wasn't racing a marathon today.

Long Run = 7:24, 7:32, 7:25, 7:39, 7:31, 7:34, 7:34, 7:36, 7:32, 7:31, 7:28, 7:37, 7:36, 7:27

Everything was good through 9 miles, but then the difficultly of the run increased. I kept putting in a good LR effort. I had my E-Gel at mile 7. A few of the miles between 10-15 were nearly out of range but I gave a good effort to keep them within window. Average HR of 142-144 which is a tad high for LR.

One reason this 15 miler may have seemed tougher than prior is I somehow increased my hill work. Past 15 mile runs were around 500 feet gained, but this one was just over 700 feet.

Predicted TRIMP = 212
Actual TRIMP = 219

Predicted TRIMP Weekly Load = 840 (120 avg for 7 days)
Actual TRIMP Weekly Load = 862 (123.1 avg for 7 days)

At this point, I'm feeling rather confident I can predict the TRIMP of a workout with reliable consistency. If the numbers bear this out, then I should be in better shape come January then I was in October. We shall see! This week (862) was harder than all but one week during Daniels Training and would have been the 4th highest during Lakefront.

Weight on Sunday morning was 164. So no change from last week from one Sunday to the next. Although, my weight went up during the week and came back down. Since the goal was to lose 1 pound per week, this 164 is right on target.

Still not back into form at this point, but I'm making progress!

 

[JulieODC]

Looks like a really solid week to me!!

And your hotel choice looks pretty perfect!!

 

[FredtheDuck]

What a week! Sorry to hear about your hip, but it sounds like whatever was flared up is calming down. Also, congrats on getting accepted to Chicago (not that it was a surprise, but still awesome!)!!!

This was a VERY strong run and I'm very happy with it. Excited to see what is in store with the upcoming training cycle!

Me too!