To Buy or Not To Buy?

[jlazz]

We are a family of 4 from NJ. We have been to WDW 4 times since 2001, and also took a Disney Cruise earlier this year. My dh and I are in our early 40s and our kids are 7 and 8. We typically travel to WDW in August and if we were to go the DVC route, we would probably consider going during teachers convention each November (aka "Jersey Week"). We have considered buying a vacation home at the Jersey Shore, which we would rent out and use ourselves 1 or 2 wks a year and in the off season.

We toured DVC/Saratoga Springs this past Saturday, on the last day of our most recent trip. We were very impressed with everything we learned and saw. Dh, who would never consider a timeshare, has actually been the driving force behind considering DVC as an option for our family. We enjoy our trips to WDW, and we own stock in Disney which means we believe in Disney as a company. For those reasons, it makes sense for us to consider Disney even tho' we would never consider another timeshare company.

Now that you have some background, I am hoping you can give me some help on making the decision by answering a few questions. I have been reading DisBoards and any other info I can find online. While I have absorbed quite a bit, my head is spinning. lol!Here are my questions (although I have a feeling I'll have more.).

• According to our guide, we have a window of no more than 72 hrs to get the incentives DVC is currently offering. Have you found this to be true? If not, what will we be looking at if we decide in the next few weeks?

• For those who toured last year, what were the incentives offered then, or with other properties?

• If I don't buy now, can I expect new incentives at another point down the road?

• Why do you think this is a good use of your money ($15k or more) when you will pay maintenance fees each year and you will receive no return on your investment after 49yrs??

• Have you used your points from any of the other categories (concierge, world collection, etc) and have you been satisfied?

• I just read a post where someone was unhappy with a comment about using your points at a resort other than your home resort. Why is that? Does that mean that it will be hard to get reservations at the other locations so we shouldn't have that expectation or that it will prevent those who have that resort as their home resort from getting the dates they want?

I'm sorry for all the questions. I hope this is the correct forum to ask. Any help would be appreciated.



Jackie

 

[JimC]

Welcome to the DIS!

Here are two sites you should read:

http://www.mousesavers.com/dvc.html#dvc

http://allearsnet.com/acc/dvc.htm

Others can speak to the incentives being offered. Disney is often running some kind of incentive. Generally the prices increase and incentives decrease as a resort is built out and sales progress.

Using your points at other resorts depends on available accommodations at the 7 month booking window. You get a priority at your home resort to book from 7 months to 11 months before your check out date. At smaller resorts, such as VWL and BCV, the 11 month window is important during certain peak DVC times.

We have only used our points at DVC resorts or other Disney resorts. The best value is to use them at DVC resorts. There are other timeshares that are less expensive to buy and own that are better for trading. We own at Marriott for that purpose.

We believe we get excellent value from our membership. Because of Disney's ROFR resale prices are quite good, although at some point in the contract prices will begin to decline. You should view this as a pre-paid vacation, not an investment.

You might want to consider a resale contract as there is no difference in how you buy - once in the system you are treated as any other member. It will save you some money.

Good luck.

 

[wtpclc]

I'll try to answer what I can

• According to our guide, we have a window of no more than 72 hrs to get the incentives DVC is currently offering. Have you found this to be true? If not, what will we be looking at if we decide in the next few weeks?

This has been true. Sometimes, if you call your guide in teh 72-hour window, though, you can get it extended.

• For those who toured last year, what were the incentives offered then, or with other properties?

The incentive we got was $10 per point to buy back teh first years points. It seems there was somethign else too.

• If I don't buy now, can I expect new incentives at another point down the road?

There will be more incentives, but the price has gone up fairly steadily in teh past. One of the most common complaints that I have heard here is "Why didn't I buy in sooner?"

• Why do you think this is a good use of your money ($15k or more) when you will pay maintenance fees each year and you will receive no return on your investment after 49yrs??

It's not really an investment, it's prepaid vacations as relatively guaranteed costs fro teh next 49 years. Plus, you will end up staying at deluxes (actually better than deluxes) for the prices of mods, or sometimes even values.

• Have you used your points from any of the other categories (concierge, world collection, etc) and have you been satisfied?

WIll try the Adventurer's Alaksan Cruise next year, but have not tried them yet.

• I just read a post where someone was unhappy with a comment about using your points at a resort other than your home resort. Why is that?

You can book at your home resort 11 months out. You can book at all otehr DVCs 7 months out. SOme people feel that the bigger resorts, especially SSR, will cause more congestion at teh smaller resorts and make it harder to get ressies at 7 months.

• Does that mean that it will be hard to get reservations at the other locations so we shouldn't have that expectation or that it will prevent those who have that resort as their home resort from getting the dates they want?

As long as you book your home resort before 7 months, you should be fine, except for very popular times. It's best to buy where you want to stay if you would be very disappointed if you do not get a resort other than your home resort.

HTH! Keep firing those questions!

 

[tjkraz]

According to our guide, we have a window of no more than 72 hrs to get the incentives DVC is currently offering. Have you found this to be true? If not, what will we be looking at if we decide in the next few weeks?

As wtpclc said, you might be able to get an extension if you ask and have a set period of time in mind. I wouldn't suggest letting the 72 hours simply lapse and expect to get some sort of discount later. There have been SOME instances of people being able to get incentives reinstated at a later date, but it often involved buying a different property or listing additional names on the deed. More often than not, you lose access to all current and future incentives on the property if you pass the deadline.

Bear in mind that all you need to do to lock in the discount is say "yes" and give them a $500 deposit. You aren't truly committed until you actually sign and notarize the documents, and even then you still have 14 more days to rescind the deal.

Even if you feel you need more research time, it would be wise to give a verbal commitment and use the next couple of weeks (before returning the signed documents) to complete your research.

For those who toured last year, what were the incentives offered then, or with other properties?

The deal you were offered is the same they are offering to all current buyers. It is on par with past offerings. In fact, as wtpclc said, it was more commonplace in the past to have to forfeit your first year's point in return for a discount. Now you get an $8 per point discount and get to keep those points.

I highly doubt you will see a better deal if you wait.

 

[Disney Fanatic]

Since you are considering DVC you should seriously look at resale as an option since it looks like you plan to travel again next summer.

You have the time to put an offer on a nice contract with some banked points and really make it worth your while.

We are in the process of finalizing an OKW resale and have literally saved thousands!!!

Look at The Timeshare Store for any resales and call them and let them know what you are looking for.

If you are patient, you will get what you want, eventually.

We went to visit the Timeshare Store on our last trip to Disney and would not hesitate to make a purchase through them.

I even called my guide at DVC when they would not extend the offer to us they made on our DVC tour quite some time later and asked what is the difference between buying from them and buying resale and she said nothing.

I then felt quite confident about buying resale and soon will be official OKW members.

Good Luck!!

 

[Deb & Bill]

...The deal you were offered is the same they are offering to all current buyers. It is on par with past offerings. In fact, as wtpclc said, it was more commonplace in the past to have to forfeit your first year's point in return for a discount. Now you get an $8 per point discount and get to keep those points.

I highly doubt you will see a better deal if you wait.

Course some of us bought in for $62.50 a point (and less, but not me). Points will only go up because they can.

 

[cruise-o-matic]

Bear in mind that all you need to do to lock in the discount is say "yes" and give them a $500 deposit. You aren't truly committed until you actually sign and notarize the documents, and even then you still have 14 more days to rescind the deal.

Even if you feel you need more research time, it would be wise to give a verbal commitment and use the next couple of weeks (before returning the signed documents) to complete your research.

This is similar to what we did. We ordered a 160 pt SSR contract w/in the 72 hour period. Then we found a 200 pt HH resale contract w/banked points and decided to go with that instead. We called DVC and returned the contract unsigned, NQA, and they refunded our deposit shortly thereafter.

So I would echo that advice to go ahead and commit to get the incentive. You can always back out (or if you do not sign and return in 60 days, Disney will cancel it and send your $ back anyway). This will give you plenty of time to crunch the #'s to make sure it is right for you.

 

[bcvillastwo]

You said you've been to WDW 4 times since 2001 and you also said that you were considering a house on the Jersey shore.

Is this an either or proposition for you folks? You are likely to do one but not the other. If you are looking for a financial investment then DVC is probably not your best choice. However, some of the people who bought into DVC early could probably make money if they sold today. But, there is not guarantee that this will be the case in the future.

On the other hand many people see DVC as a way to prepay for on site WDE delux accomodations thus lowering the cost of future vacations. To me one way to view DVC. Another way it to view DVC is an investment in your family and its future. I think this viewpoint is equally valid.

The common mantra is that DVC could be for you if you:

Visit WDW at least once every two years,

Stay in moderate or better resorts, and

Really love WDW.

Every family situation is different and we each have to weigh the pro's and cons but if you understand that DVC should not be considered a financial investment and you can say yest to the 3 points I just raised then I would say you are a candidate for DVC. So, run the numbers, weigh the pro's and con's for your family, continue to read and ask questions, and really think it over. Good luck with your decision.

By the way, we love DVC and haven't had a single regret. It's been one of the best decisions we ever made and we look forward to every trip. We have one planned for the two weeks starting the 2nd week of October and the anticipation is starting to build.

 

[JimMIA]

You've received some good advice already. I'll offer just a few comments on some of your specific questions.

• According to our guide, we have a window of no more than 72 hrs to get the incentives DVC is currently offering. Have you found this to be true? If not, what will we be looking at if we decide in the next few weeks?

• I think that depends on what kind of incentives you were offered. I seriously doubt if the basic incentive ($8 off the per point price) will change. That's just the price, not some special deal. If there were preferential interest rates on financing, those may well change. If there was some sort of "no dues until" or "2004 points available in your use year," I suspect those would go away in 72 hours and immediately reappear if you told them they were deal-breakers

  • Have you used your points from any of the other categories (concierge, world collection, etc) and have you been satisfied?

  You will hear two schools of thought on this question. I think most people here would advise that you not buy DVC with the intention of using it heavily for trading into properties or vacation packages outside the seven DVC resorts. If you are going to trade into and out of timeshares, there are a lot of products on the market that would be better suited for that.
  
  Some (myself included) will tell you that using your DVC points for options outside DVC is not the best use of your points. The value you get within DVC is much higher than you will get outside...even with Disney Cruise Line and other Disney properties. Many will advise to pay cash for those options and rent points to recoup your cash outlay.
  
  Other equally-sensible folks say, "Hey...I bought DVC for prepaid, quality vacations. I don't want the hassle of renting points, and if I get good value for my points outside DVC, I'm not concerned that I didn't get maximum value." I can't argue with that logic. It's a perfectly logical personal choice.
  
  I have seen a number of trip reports from folks who used their points for all sorts of vacations, and I have not read any who said they were not satisfied with the value they received. I'm sure there probably are some out there, but I have not seen them.

  • I just read a post where someone was unhappy with a comment about using your points at a resort other than your home resort. Why is that? Does that mean that it will be hard to get reservations at the other locations so we shouldn't have that expectation or that it will prevent those who have that resort as their home resort from getting the dates they want?

  I'm not sure what comments you are referring to, but August is hardly peak season for DVC. I would think you'd be able to get accommodations just about anywhere booking at the seven-month window. Now, that doesn't mean trying to book 60 days out...but if you plan ahead, I'm sure you'll be fine as long as you are flexible. Also, you can book a backup ressie at your home resort at 11 months and then see what you can get at seven months. If you like your 7-month options better, you cancel the backup.

 

[tjkraz]

I seriously doubt if the basic incentive ($8 off the per point price) will change. That's just the price, not some special deal. If there were preferential interest rates on financing, those may well change. If there was some sort of "no dues until" or "2004 points available in your use year," I suspect those would go away in 72 hours and immediately reappear if you told them they were deal-breakers.

Jim,

I think you are incorrect on a couple of points here.

First, the $8 per point promotion DOES disappear after 72 hours. That's a common approach for DVC to take when a guest's VERY FIRST contact with DVC comes during a spur-of-the-moment tour. Don't ask me to explain to logic behind it. I would think it alienates as many people as it convinces to buy--but DVC must have sales numbers that say otherwise.

Bottom line: If you don't commit in those 72 hours the price jumps to the published rate of $98.

Also, making reinstatement of the incentive a condition of the sale is touch-and-go. To anyone who legitimately needs another 48-72 hours to get all of their ducks in a row, I'd recommend discussing that with DVC in advance. My guess is an extension would be granted under pre-defined conditions.

But, to simply let the 72 hour window expire and assume you can later push to get the incentive reinstated would be a mistake. I've read too many reports of people NOT being able to convince DVC to do this. In one case, the only way around the deadline was to include the name of a relative who did not take the tour on the deed. I guess someone must have felt it worth a few hundred dollars to go that route, but I doubt anyone here would condone such a move.

If you need more time to decide give a verbal commitment, spend a few weeks doing your homework, and rescind the deal if necessary.

 

[JimMIA]

Jim,

I think you are incorrect on a couple of points here.

First, the $8 per point promotion DOES disappear after 72 hours. That's a common approach for DVC to take when a guest's VERY FIRST contact with DVC comes during a spur-of-the-moment tour. Don't ask me to explain to logic behind it. I would think it alienates as many people as it convinces to buy--but DVC must have sales numbers that say otherwise.

Bottom line: If you don't commit in those 72 hours the price jumps to the published rate of $98.

You may well be right, but that was not my experience. My very first contact was a spur of the moment tour, and I told my guide right up front I was not ready to buy anything. I ended up waiting two months, and eventually bought resale, but the "deals" were still on the table from my guide.

I've heard other anecdotal information both ways, and I'm inclined to believe that it might be a "guide thing," rather than DVC policy. Some guides may think that's their best shot (or they may not want to spend the time and effort with people who are not ready to buy). I do think you're right about it being counterproductive in a lot of cases -- that kind of pressure would only generate push-back from me. If my guide had treated me like that, I never would have bought an add-on from her.

 

[Shawn]

Jim,

I think you are incorrect on a couple of points here.

First, the $8 per point promotion DOES disappear after 72 hours. That's a common approach for DVC to take when a guest's VERY FIRST contact with DVC comes during a spur-of-the-moment tour. Don't ask me to explain to logic behind it. I would think it alienates as many people as it convinces to buy--but DVC must have sales numbers that say otherwise.

Apparently your mileage may vary here. Here is my experience.

First of all I am in Oregon, and have never *been* to WDW, much less taken the tour. I hit the "send me the DVD button" on the official DVC web site http://dvc.disney.go.com/dvc/index.

The DVD arrived after a week or so. After another week or so I received a call from a guide. She explained how the DVC works in detail, then offered to send me more literature, which I gladly accepted. This arrived within a week, and it included the *big blue* DVC book, which was very helpful. It also included a sheet on financing and interest rates, and a flyer on saving money via the $8 per point discount.

Another week or so later, I phoned my guide back (a wonderful lady), and talked some more with her. One of the things I brought up was the discount. At this time, we're a good month from the time I hit that 'send me the DVD' button, and the $8 discount is still available.

I talked to the guide weeks later, and it was still available -- in fact, she never mentioned a date (such as 72 hours) at which it would not be available -- although the initial flyer did suggest that it would expire at some time.

Perhaps, they are more lenient to us folks who they are selling to over the phone and who have not taken the tour. I don't know.

For me, I would *never* be pressured into making a financial decision such as this within 72 hours. As others have said, you can buy resale (at SSR or elsewhere) for far less than $98 per point, realtor fees included, so don't worry about that deadline. Whether you buy resale or direct from Disney, you will be treated just the same, and are an owner with all rights and obligations (maintenance fees) that go along with that.

The *only* reason I could see to worry about the deadline is if you are considering doing the Disney financing, as opposed to using a home equity loan, or other means of paying for it.

But even then, I think it is something you should not rush into. We didn't rush, and it gave us time to learn lots of the ins and outs and strategy of buying into DVC from this board.

The story for us, is that we realized that we will *eventually* need 250 - 300 points for our family vacations. We were considering financing to purchase 250 points. However, we changed our strategy, and instead decided to buy 100 points at VWL this year via a resale. One of the big advantages of this is that we did *not* have to finance, we were able to scrape up the money for this purchase.

We plan on buying 200 more points -- probably in 75 or 100 point increments in future years -- again with cash that we save up.

The other contracts will be at a different resort than VWL -- perhaps SSR, perhaps elsewhere. This will allow us to have the 11 month reservation window at at least two DVC resorts.

You have probably learned about banking and borrowing, we plan on using that to vary the contract use each year. For instance, on our first trip to VWL, we plan on using 100 points from the current year, and 100 points from the next year, so that we will have 200 points to spend. Then that contract will have to rest for a year. During that year of rest, we will use the other contract (which we have not yet bought) for our vacation.

Don't be pressured or rushed. There are lots of options.

Shawn

 

[T.E. Yeary]

Just my observation over the 11 years weve been doing the Disney's, Their tactics are becoming more and more like the "regular" timeshare tours. In the beginning there were no "incentives" and you had 30 days to look over the paperwork. They've come a long way baby!!!

 

[wtpclc]

It is completely different over the phone. The only deadline is when the offer hist its deadline. Even then, if you contact DVC before tehn, it can be extended. However, doing the tour automatically starts the 72-hour deadline. (My gues is they want to catch you in that post-wdw, I want to go back mode).

Careful Tom, them's fighting words. Comparing our DVC to a regular timeshare!

 

[T.E. Yeary]

I feared the flames!!! Just remember I said the word "tactics" are getting more like the others, not the program itself!

 

[3DisneyKids]

I'm sure there probably are some out there, but I have not seen them.I'm not sure what comments you are referring to, but August is hardly peak season for DVC. I would think you'd be able to get accommodations just about anywhere booking at the seven-month window. Now, that doesn't mean trying to book 60 days out...but if you plan ahead, I'm sure you'll be fine as long as you are flexible. Also, you can book a backup ressie at your home resort at 11 months and then see what you can get at seven months. If you like your 7-month options better, you cancel the backup.

I have been reading this thread with interest as we, too, are sitting on the proverbial DVC fence, though we are about a year away from making a commitment (but I like to do my research so that when the time comes I know what is best for my family).

We are fortunate in that we have a lot of flexibility as to what time of year we vacation. Yes, I pull the kids out of school (but we have a great school system with an amazing "vacation-to-school" program so that families can travel and not stress out about how much school the kids are missing). And DH and I are both very flexible when we can get away from work, etc.

Because of this flexibility, we always head to WDW during value season...Sept., Jan, etc. I guess I did not realize that DVC's peak times may be different. Is this the case?

If so, when are the DVC peak times? Are there different peak times for each DVC resort, or are the peak times for all DVC properties in general?

TIA--

 

[wtpclc]

I feared the flames!!! Just remember I said the word "tactics" are getting more like the others, not the program itself!

OK. I'll give you this one. Just a surprising comment out of one who tends to trod so carfeully. aw:

 

[wtpclc]

Peak time seem to be October (especially BWV and BCV) durign F&W fest, first part of Decemeber, around Marathon weekend and around MLK day. Stiil, if you nook before 7 month window, you should be fine.

 

[M4travels]

Greetings. My partner and I were at Disneyland this weekend and saw the signs everywhere regarding "The Best Kept Secret." We went over, talked to the guide, and without any pressure from him whatsoever decided that we could give up a couple hours to see what was being offered. We own a few timeshares and really didn't want to get into another "floating week / fixed week" discussion and how much we travel and how much we spend, blah blah blah.

This was probably the most low-keyed sales presentation we have ever sat in on, save a phenomenal place we found in Cabo San Lucas. The point system, while we've heard of it previously, was new to us and was beyond easy to understand. After chatting a bit our cast member left us so that we could chat about it and, while we NEVER anticipated signing up, we did. We picked up our 160 points surprising even our salesperson. One of the reasons we did was due one of the incentives that they offered that was expiring on Sept 1st. I usually don't believe expiry dates (not even on milk cartons!) but this did seem legit. Now, we only put the $500 down to hold it because we did want to talk about it once we got home from the park. We also thought about the resales out there and it just wasn't for us. A home equity loan was not going to be an option for us so financing via Disney was our option. It's not the option for all, but it worked for us.

We've already discussed amongst ourselves as to how we'll be using it (yes, at the home resort first but then on to a Disney Cruise and then back to SSR.) We really do spend a lot of time down at Disneyland but have never gone to WDW. Now we see that as a perfect possibility.

Glad I found this board and looking forward to learning more about the program and your insights!

Michael

 

[tjkraz]

At this time, we're a good month from the time I hit that 'send me the DVD' button, and the $8 discount is still available.

I talked to the guide weeks later, and it was still available -- in fact, she never mentioned a date (such as 72 hours) at which it would not be available -- although the initial flyer did suggest that it would expire at some time.

As wtpclc said, the deadline is often stated before / during / after the on-site tour of the facilities. I've never heard of deadlines being imposed on those who purchased from home, unless it's a case where a particular incentive is ending throughout the program.

As others have said, you can buy resale (at SSR or elsewhere) for far less than $98 per point, realtor fees included, so don't worry about that deadline.

Yes, but the price we're talking about retaining is $90 per point at SSR with the 12 additional years of ownership.

You can get VB, HHI and OKW cheaper on the resale market. But then you're losing 12 years of ownership comparitively speaking. BWV, VWL and BCV--not a chance (and you're still losing the 12 years.)

SSR resales vary greatly, but those who are patient can probably find a good contract (not heavily borrowed) for a couple dollars less than DVC prices.

And buying direct you can get the exact number of points you want, book a stay immediately, choose from multiple Use Years, finance the purchase and virtually complete the process in a single phone call.

I feared the flames!!! Just remember I said the word "tactics" are getting more like the others, not the program itself!

Nevertheless, coming from someone who has a financial interest in bemoaning DVC's sales practices, the comments were a bit surprising to me. I would think taking the high road a bit more tactful.