Tipping when will it be too much?

[Uncleromulus]

kcrew:
You make a good point. I suppose the "problem" would be --what to tip each one?? I imagine there would need to be a "level of service" factor, but how would that be computed to arrive at a dollar amount?? To sort of standardize things..
As I suggested in an earlier thread on this subject, the American way of paying servers and tipping has been around for awhile. It hasn't changed, and there must be a reason (in the restaurant industry) for that. I'm just not sure what it is

 

[mgilmer]

I usually tip a standard 15% at buffets and 20% at table service restaurants for standard level of service. If the service is bad, the tip can go down. For exceptional service, the tip rises. I tend to base my enhanced tips on my servers attentiveness to my wife and my child - the more so, the bigger the tip. I have tipped 50% before to a server who really fawned over my child.

 

[honeymo78]

I wonder how menu prices have been affected in states where servers now get the regular minimum wage - like cali and apparently WA. How have those employers dealt with a mandatory increase in wage payments. If it works out fine for consumers there, then maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to mandate it everywhere.

 

[BoyLovesBuzz]

Here is my problem. Do you tip in the bottom line or the pre-tax amount? I have always felt that I should not have to tip on tax.

 

[Dbaumann]

I was once a cook at a resturant in Illinois & we would get part of the tips from the wait staff. Because we got tips (it was like a buck for the whole night during the week and 20-30 on the weekend) we were paid below Min Pay. That really bit.
But even today I will leave 20% for really good service, 12-15 for average, and I will leave a penny for bad service. I leave a penny so that they know that I didn't just forget to give it to them. I also will leave cash for the tip so that they don't have to claim it all. I know that at another place that I worked at they had to claim at least 8% of total sales for the night. Were as they would have to claim the total tip on the credit card slip.

 

[Dbaumann]

By the ways does everyone know what tips stand for.....

To Insure Propmt Service

 

[kimberh]

By the ways does everyone know what tips stand for.....

To Insure Propmt Service

I never knew this. I have always been a very fair tipper, but there has to be a line drawn or we won't be able to eat out. I wish the establishment paid more to the server.

 

[just another guy]

Just another guy, your example is maybe a bit of an exageration but in principle is right on. You only need to wait on one table of four in an hour to make up for the wage increase. An entree would not need to raise in price that much to allow for a higher wage.

I sure wouldn't have waited tables for less than I was making, which was about 150 a night in tips when we were busy. Lets toss out some numbers. Lets say I had 4 tables of 4 thus 16 seats available. I'll not get them 100% full, so lets say 12 on average. When you factor in time to clean/buss, and time to get resat, a 1.5 hour turns. 3.5 turns, thus 14 tables for the night. So, in this setup, I waited on 42 people. Lets say 7 were kids. You can't jack up the price of kids meals really, so only adults feel the increase. So thats 35 peoples meals, who need to be increased enough for me to make 150. That comes out to $4.28 a plate. Or if you want to make the numbers a little more loose, I need $150 from those 14 tables, thus $10.71 a table.

I ran this by a restaurant manager just last night. Without really taking time working up all the numbers exactly, she "guessed" that if server wages quadrupled (that is, went to just $8.75 and hour) menu prices would need to rise about 15%. Make the wage higher, the menu price goes higher as well.

Two things. First off, no one would wait tables for 8.75. In high school I knew a girl working at dennys who made more than that once you factored in tips.

And then she figured that restaurants would probably try and trim server numbers down to the bare minimum to recover even more of the wage increase. I know there are restaurant owners/managers on these boards. I'd like to hear from them as to why we still keep the current tipping system in place and what might likely happen (to menu prices and service) if we paid the servers a good and fair wage.

Exactly!!! I dealt with that problem when servers were only getting $3 an hour. Jack up the price, and it will be even worse. You'll hear the hosts telling people your server should be with you in about 5-7 minutes. Ya need a refill, give me 3-5 minutes.

Here is my problem. Do you tip in the bottom line or the pre-tax amount? I have always felt that I should not have to tip on tax.

Is that difference really going to brake your bank?

 

[cafetao]

Just another guy, You're right, to a point. The entree price doesn't need to bear the brunt of the price increase. Raise the price by smaller amounts for drinks, appetizers, entrees, desserts and yes children's meals and a smart establishment could easily make up that money and more. Granted the entrees would need to be raised the most because just about everyone gets an entree, but four dollars an entree? Not even close, maybe two for an entree, 50 cents for a soft drink ( most people never really look at how much the drink is) 75 cents to a dollar for appetizers, the same for dessert, maybe a dollar for a kids meal. One table of two could almost pay for the increase by itself. Three or four tables can be done in two hours easily.

But you reduce sticker shock and you can use the fact that you pay a much better wage as advertising, what the price says on the menu is what the price will be. You could even say that tipping is not required but if you feel you received excellent service than tip as you feel is appropriate.

Don't get me wrong I'm okay with tipping, and being a server is not the easiest job, though it's not that hard either. I just think tipping has been divorced from it's original purpose and is now considered mandatory as opposed to an incentive to reward good service.

 

[dqpowell]

"Standard" tipping percentage is already too high at 18-20%, especially with the hugely inflated food prices at Disney restaurants. Tipping percentage need not be raised to afford the servers a raise in 'pay.' That already happens as the cost of meals and drinks goes up. Ask a Disney server if they'd rather make 15% tips at a Disney restaurant, or 20% tips at a non-Disney restaurant serving similar food. No question whatsoever -- they'll pick Disney every time, because the food prices are so inflated.

Oh, and technically speaking, you don't tip on the tax. You tip on the pre-tax amount. Though of course, many people don't bother trying to figure it out that way.

David

 

[just another guy]

Just another guy, You're right, to a point. The entree price doesn't need to bear the brunt of the price increase. Raise the price by smaller amounts for drinks, appetizers, entrees, desserts and yes children's meals and a smart establishment could easily make up that money and more. Granted the entrees would need to be raised the most because just about everyone gets an entree, but four dollars an entree? Not even close, maybe two for an entree, 50 cents for a soft drink ( most people never really look at how much the drink is) 75 cents to a dollar for appetizers, the same for dessert, maybe a dollar for a kids meal. One table of two could almost pay for the increase by itself. Three or four tables can be done in two hours easily.

Correct, I just didn't want to go into full detail. Plus, you gotta remember, the increase in price paid by guests would have to cover the full amount of time the servers are on the clock. There is typically 30-60 minutes of setup work for the restaurant, and then another 30-60 for cleanup at close. To make $150 from 4pm-11pm, thats 7 hours, thus $21 an hour. If there are 2 hours of non serving time, thats $42 the restaurant has to pay the server That money has to come from the busy time of the restaurant.

 

[mgilmer]

Here is my problem. Do you tip in the bottom line or the pre-tax amount? I have always felt that I should not have to tip on tax.

I always tip pre-tax amount only.

 

[mgilmer]

By the ways does everyone know what tips stand for.....

To Insure Propmt Service

Actually that is incorrect. See below:

From http://money.cnn.com/2001/10/07/pf/tipping/ --

In 1972, George Foster, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at UC Berkeley, looked at the origins of words meaning "tip" or "gratuity" in several languages. He found that, frequently, it evolved from 'drink money' -- supporting the idea that the practice began in eating establishments. Foster theorized that tipping started with a desire to avoid envy on the part of the server and to send the message that the server should have a drink at the customer's expense.

The origin of the word English word "tip" is less clear. One popular theory says it's is an acronym of "to insure promptness." Jesse Sheidlower, Principal Editor in North America for the Oxford English Dictionary, says that's wrong, because acronyms weren't popular in English until the 1920s. "'Tip," says Sheidlower, "began as a verb in the seventeenth century, used in the language of thieves, meaning 'to give'." By the early eighteenth century, the meaning included "to give a gratuity to a servant or employee".

 

[just another guy]

Ask a Disney server if they'd rather make 15% tips at a Disney restaurant, or 20% tips at a non-Disney restaurant serving similar food. No question whatsoever -- they'll pick Disney every time, because the food prices are so inflated.

That argument doesn't really work. Guess what, the servers at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse make a lot more that those at Denny. Reason being, the price difference.

 

[dqpowell]

By the ways does everyone know what tips stand for.....

To Insure Propmt Service

This is a common misconception. Neither "tip" nor "tips" is an acronym for anything.

David

 

[dqpowell]

That argument doesn't really work. Guess what, the servers at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse make a lot more that those at Denny. Reason being, the price difference.

That's why I said "at a non-Disney restaurant serving similar food." The food at Ruth's Chris costs more because it's better.

David

 

[just another guy]

That's why I said "at a non-Disney restaurant serving similar food." The food at Ruth's Chris costs more because it's better.

David

You're paying for the convenience and the location. A coffee in BFE, Alabama cost maybe .75 or so. The same thing in NCY, times square is probably $4

 

[mgilmer]

FWIW here is a good comprehensive guide to tipping:

http://www.findalink.net/tippingetiquette.php

 

[dqpowell]

You're paying for the convenience and the location. A coffee in BFE, Alabama cost maybe .75 or so. The same thing in NCY, times square is probably $4

But this example doesn't relate back to my original point. A server that can do simple math will pick 15% tips at restaurant A (Disney, where a steak, potato and vegetable cost $27) over 20% tips at restaurant B (Outback, for example, where a similar steak, potato and vegetable entree costs $18). A 15% tip on $25 is $4.05. A 20% tip on $16 is $3.20. Add in appetizers, drinks, and more than one diner and the server is making $6-10 more per table at a Disney restaurant with a 15% tip than at Outback with a 20% tip.

David

 

[SavvyMom]

You all make very good points and I completely understand what you are saying. Most of your explanations reinforce the point that we are not tipping to show appreciation for good service. We tip to make up for what the restaurant will not pay the server. That's what bothers me. We have restaurants here (as well as Disney) that automatically add on 18-20percent tip. This is not just large groups either. We are a family of four. I suppose if I received inferior service I could fuss and have that removed. I don't know since I've never tried. Now when we go somewhere we look very carefully to see if it's added on the bill. Sometimes it's hidden!! We went to a restaurant and had to ask, "Is this gratuity?" It had no label and was just there. Perhaps they should make add-on gratuity an industry standard? Geesh, going out to eat is work