Tipping out of control?

[crisi]

I answered the poll, but after the debate, also need to clarify.

I tip well - 15-20%. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to tip because servers would make a living wage. And because servers would give great service regardless of tip. If things worked like this, I wouldn't mind small tips (8-10%) for exceptional service.

I hate the ever escallting tip percentage. Not only has the tip percentage gone up (anyone else remember 8% being a reasonable tip?), but the bill for the restaurant has gone up as well. Wish I could get raises like that.

On the other hand, I know waitstaff isn't getting the raise because tipping is "Liberatarianism in action." Some people do stiff their servers or drastically undertip them, and my 15% needs to make up for the people who still think 8% is reasonable.

I also hate the thought that a waitpersons income is so fickle. Waitstaff doesn't control how many people enter the restaurant, or if a new menu scares people away. Slow night = slow tips = less than minimum wage. Somehow, I think the risk of the business should be on the business owner, not his employees (other than the risk of the business going under and needing to find new jobs).

I also can't stand the "everyone with their hand out." We should be working on cutting down the number of tipped positions and making employers responsible for the costs - not increasing them. But my principle doesn't pay the bills, so I do tip housekeeping at a hotel - though not as much as I think others do.

If you enjoyed this post, let me know. I have a paypal account set up to accept tips for my brilliant insight.

 

[MATTERHORN]

Totalia, So I must not be understanding you right! You are complaining that you don't make tips for what you do, but the other server position does. Then you say that their job is much worse than yours and you would never do it again. I don't understand when people don't want to tip someone to do a job that they wouldn't want to ex: carrying bags, serving food. Why wouldn't someone tip the person who brings the bags to your room, it makes your life easier and more enjoyable. Why wouldn't someone tip a person to serve them? Who really wants to serve people, wouldn't everyone rather be served? People are waiters because there has to be waiters and sometimes the pay is great, sometimes not, but I don't think it is silly to show appreciation to someone for doing a job that you don't want to. Barring the obvious which is horrible service, basically tips are a way to say Thank you for serving me and doing a job I wouldn't want to!


Muushka, Let me just say that $5 will be fine if that's what you have to give. I would give $5 to the baggage handler (the unloader) and $10 to the bellman who comes to your room. That is $1 per bag. My reasoning is that the baggage handler gets it done in less time due to the fact that he only goes behind the desk, not all the way to your room. And it's not the distance but the time it takes. For instance, in a 15 minute span it takes the bellman to get to your room, the baggage handler has already unloaded 3 other people's baggage, hence getting possibly 3 other tips, if you get what I mean.
However I will say that one can usually tell when someone gives them $5 out of the goodness of their heart vs. when a person is just being cheap and doesn't think the bellman is worth it. I can tell the difference (most of the time) between those people here. There are people that purposely hide in the bathroom when you get to their room to deliver the luggage, so they won't have to tip you! They peek out the door and say just leave the bags there, and then shut the bathroom door again until you leave! How low is that, atleast look me in the eye when you stiff me!!! Anyways, you can tell a huge difference between those that may not know much about tipping and those that are just rude! Good luck and have fun!

Andrea

 

[Muushka]

Oh Andrea. I thank you for your honest opinion on the "baggage tipping for Mr and Mrs Muushka debate". The problem is that for $15, we will carry our own bags. Quite honestly it is not a matter of not being able to afford it, but after all, this is the budget board. And I think about every single purchase I make, including tips. Thank you for this enlightening converstaion!

 

[jann1033]

just remembered( see the light bulb above my head)i asked once on the pop century thread and according to a cm, luggage handleing is "not" a tipped position at wdw( i asked cause i wondered how you could tip them if they delivered the luggage when you were out) so hmmm

 

[fac]

Originally posted by jann1033
just remembered( see the light bulb above my head)i asked once on the pop century thread and according to a cm, luggage handleing is "not" a tipped position at wdw( i asked cause i wondered how you could tip them if they delivered the luggage when you were out) so hmmm

Jann1033,

Thank You for the info. I really need to re-think how much I should tip.

Throughout this discussion, I saw some people mentioned the tip cups in some counter services, may be I am wrong, but my experience is that "no one" really cares if you do not put the tip, or not too many people expects the tips. However, my impression is that the baggage handlers come to expect the tip. For example, we can see people suggested to "carry your own bags".

I wonder, besides the waiters, how many positions are paid below minimum wages, that tip is part of their standard wages. BTW, I am not saying that baggage handlers should not get tips for good service, but that I am not obligated to pay. Will someone point me to official publications that list "tipped position"? I do not want to short changed people, but I really think tipping is out of control and instead of taking, I should really take some corrective action. Come to think about it, there may be major differences in services from different waiters, but how much difference do we expect from different baggage handlers? They drop my bags ?

I recalled someone mentioned that the waiters have to pay tax for their tips, but don't we all? I paid income tax for my year-end bonus.

 

[wmarsich]

Having read all the posts on this thread and understanding that many people have not had to rely on tips for their job, I thought I would post my expereinces in a "tipped profession."

A day in the life of one waitress: I waitressed for many years while in college. First let me say, what a hard job! I was payed 2.15 and hour plus tips. Hope this doesn't date me, but min wage at that time was about 3.75. I usually worked an 8 hour shift in which the first 2 hours were prep - no tips. The last about 1-2 hours was clean-up - also no tips. After making my tips for the evening, I was responsible for tipping out the bus boys (15%) and bartenders (15%). The better your tips to these people, the easier your life was the next time you worked. I also worked at a place where in addition to these people, I had to tip out the hostess. I worked about 25 hours a week and "payday" is just a joke for waitresses. My check was about 20-30 dollars due to the tax deductions for tips based upon my gross receipts. I was a adequate to good waitress. I was always friendly and tried my best to give my customers the best service I was able to. Having said that please understand that there are many factors that effect a waitresses job. The cooks, the prep people, the hostesses, and the bartenders. All of these people have to be doing their job well for the service to be coming together. When one link fails, the service decreases and the waitress appears less than adequate. There is also a lot of politics in the job including who gets the best tables and who is in the corner of the restaurant working twice as hard with more tables. Being a college student rather than a career waitress - that was me. I look back on my years of waitressing as a big learning experience and I have a great respect for those that wait on me.

 

[crisi]

Originally posted by fac
Jann1033,


I recalled someone mentioned that the waiters have to pay tax for their tips, but don't we all? I paid income tax for my year-end bonus.

Yep, but the difference is that you GET the bonus and you pay tips on it.

A lot of waitstaff is taxed on a projected tip rate. I don't know if that is 15% of sales or not (I think the tax rate is less, but I don't know), but for arguments sake, lets say they are taxed at 15% of sales.

They serve your table. Bill $100. You tip 15% - $15. They pay tax on the $15 (say, once again for arguements sake 24%) of $3.60. They net $11.40 - which is the fair going rate.

They serve Joe's table. Bill $100. Joe is a big tipper - $20 - they pay tax on 15% of the sale - so $3.60. They net $16.40 - a good deal.

They serve Cindy's table. Bill $100. Cindy tips 10%. - $10. They keep $6.40 - less than fair.

They serve Tom's table. Bill $100. Tom stiff them. They pay the government $3.60 for the privledge of serving Tom his meal.

At the end of serving these four tables - they have made $45. They have paid $14.40 in taxes - netting $30.60. They have paid 32% of their tips in taxes.

If you get a $45 bonus at the 24% tax rate, you will net $33.30.

The problem a lot of waiters have is that they serve in places where there are far more Cindys and Toms than Joes. So their tax rate is higher than it should be. In addition, if no one comes into the restaurant that evening - they are working for sub minimum wage. So they can put in a lot of hours for very little money. I doubt this is a problem at Disney, but I know it can be an issue (slow nights, and getting stiffed) serving late nights at Perkins. I had a friend who actually worked a shift where at the end of it he owed the government money for working.

 

[wmarsich]

Wow some of these surprised me, but here is an idea of tipping expectations:

http://www.tipping.org/tips/TipsPageTipsUS.html

 

[dana0069]

geez..i had no idea...tell you what lets save you guys all the trouble of having to wait on people..set up a pal-pal acct., and instead of waiting to give you your earned tip..i'll just start depositing loads of money into your acct. then after i start doing it, i'll tell 2 people, then they will tell 2 people and so-os and so-on.
PROBLEM SOLVED..
this must be the party room? all this cheese and wining in here..
Give us a break..!! we all got our money problems.
instead of dictating what we should be giving you for a tip...Take responsabilty for your own financial loss or gain, if tips is the only thing between you and death...look for another job..!!
I'd like to sit here and complain about my low salary, my high taxes, all my expensives..and then sit there and ask everybody else should be helping me out.
bottom line is tipping is not manadory in most cases.So stop depending on them.

ok, i got my boxing gloves on.....bring it on..
LOve ya all xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo...kisses and hugs for eveyone
lets give more LOVE and less TIPS....Mmmmmm love...

 

[elfbo]

Assuming that the tipped positions were being paid tips only for a 100$ meal the going rate taxed is 15% so tip should be approximately 15$. Said waitstaff would pay around 15% fed tax, 0% state tax in fla, and 7.65% fica/medicare for a total of 22.65%, In VA it would be 27.65% due to state income tax.

The wait staff would pay 3.40$ in taxes for that 15.00$ they are perceived to make in fla. $4.14 in VA.

So to keep the wait persons from losing money, due to taxes, on your transaction, please tip at least 3.4% in florida, or 4.2% in VA. This will cover the taxes they pay on the tip.

Since we rarely have meals that cost over 25% a tip of 1.05 would suffice. This of course is for basic service. If the experience was so horrible, and you feel like the wait person owes you, dont tip! The wait person will loose money on the transaction. If on the other hand the service was good, show your apprecation by at least paying the taxes on the expected tip for your meal.

 

[ksumn1]

I am a recent college grad (at the age of 26) and since 16, I have worked in resteraunts. A couple of times, I waitressed, but most were in fast food joints. My pay now is $7.00 at a Subway resteraunt. I have worked for the same owner for over 5 years, and as a store manager I only made $8.00 an hour. Why? Because our owner is a tightwad. He can afford a condo in Florida, but can't afford to give his employees a raise! Working with the public is sometimes a challenge. Some people are never happy, no matter how great of a job you do, or how friendly you are. However, the place I am at in my life now is of my choosing. I stay because I actually DO like my job, and because I'm in the process of trying to find a better job so I can use my education. This said, we DO have a tip jar. As long as I can remember, we have always had a tip jar. We split the tips at the end of the day...BUT- I don't expect anyone to tip me. I'm there to do my job, not make tips. If someone leaves a tip, that's very nice of them, I ALWAYS say Thank You, and have a good day.I don't count on tips as part of my income, and to be perfectly honest, all of my tip $$ goes into my piggy bank, for a trip to WdW. I do tip waitstaff 15-30% depending on the service. Would I leave a tip at McDonald's? NO WAY! I do agree that everyone should be paid a living wage, lord knows I'm not making one now, and my owner never will pay us decently because it would cut into his profits. If I could make decent money, and get some health insurance, 401K plan, etc, I would stay with Subway because I love it. I think many people in the service industry would, if that were the case. But it's sad to say that it will probably never happen. Anyway, ther's my .02

 

[crisi]

Originally posted by elfbo
Assuming that the tipped positions were being paid tips only for a 100$ meal the going rate taxed is 15% so tip should be approximately 15$. Said waitstaff would pay around 15% fed tax, 0% state tax in fla, and 7.65% for a total of 22.65%, In VA it would be 27.65% due to state income tax.

The wait staff would pay 3.40$ in taxes for that 15.00$ they are perceived to make in fla. $4.14 in VA.

So to keep the wait persons from losing money, due to taxes, on your transaction, please tip at least 3.4% in florida, or 4.2% in VA. This will cover the taxes they pay on the tip.

Since we rarely have meals that cost over 25% a tip of 1.05 would suffice. This of course is for basic service. If the experience was so horrible, and you feel like the wait person owes you, dont tip! The wait person will loose money on the transaction. If on the other hand the service was good, show your apprecation by at least paying the taxes on the expected tip for your meal.

But don't forget there is more than just federal income tax. You'll have FICA and medicare out of there as well and state taxes. Plus you have no idea what their tax bracket is. Maybe its Melinda Gates waiting tables for some extra cash - her tax bracket is somewhat higher.

I suspect your post was tongue in cheek, but I actually sort of agree. If you have a need to undertip, at least try to cover the taxes that the waiter will have to pay for your meal. $5 on a $100 meal may be a huge insult and get your food spit in if you ever go back, but at least they aren't actively losing money.

 

[dana0069]

ya well..looks like thats what it comes down to., if we don't tip..or the tip in your mind isn't big enough...as one poster said: god knows what will happen to your luggage' or spitting or picking your nose on my food..well thats fine with me..as long as you don't mind that i am going to steal YOUR OWN TIP money to pay for the spitt and boogie encrusted food that you served me..and to add insult to injury, I won't even tip you..with your own tip money...
Ahhhhhh revenge sooooooo sweet.....Mmmmmm sweet.
you people shouldn't even be in the SERVICE INDUSTRY...
Shame on you..!!! bad people...
go in the corner and say 50 halo mary prayers..!!!!

 

[nluvwithdisney]

Our worst incident happened a couple of months before 9/11.

We had booked a limo to take 6 of us to the airport.

I called to confirm 24 hours in advance and to offer directions to the house just in case. I was traveling with in-laws and they were paranoid. The limo company said they did not need directions.

Low and behold the next morning, the limo driver is calling to say he is lost. He cannot find the street. He was on the other side of town. He finally shows up 45 minutes late. That was some warp speed trip to the airport.

I pay the limo driver via credit card. I had already called the dispatcher to have the fee lowered for their carelessness. I pay via credit card and did not include a tip. The driver asked me for it. My father-in-law was about to give him one. I stopped him.
I could not believe he had the gall to ask for a tip.

I told him that his tip was... next time be on time to pick me up. He claimed the street was not on the map. The house is 25 years old. Give me a break. We never used that service again.

 

[crisi]

I'm a little confused Dana.

Is your position that people should do the job for the love of it and not because they get paid?

I know few people who love waitressing enough to do it for $2.35 an hour - less because they are taxed on tips you aren't paying them. Its a rather hard job to do for low wages. Now, I know waitstaff who make a pretty good living - but those jobs are hard to come by.

If you've never been to the restaurant before, waitstaff isn't going to abuse your food. So your justification of it being revenge isn't adequate - someone has to act first - and its the non-tipper.

Personally, I think the system is horrible - lets just pay the staff up front and not tip - or make tipping for "above and beyond." But I don't control the system - and if I'm not willing to tip, I'm not going to eat out because I can't stomach having someone pay the government for the opportunity to provide me service.

 

[fac]

Originally posted by crisi
Yep, but the difference is that you GET the bonus and you pay tips on it.

A lot of waitstaff is taxed on a projected tip rate. I don't know if that is 15% of sales or not (I think the tax rate is less, but I don't know), but for arguments sake, lets say they are taxed at 15% of sales.

[... deleted ...]
I had a friend who actually worked a shift where at the end of it he owed the government money for working.

I recalled DBF (it was before we got marry and it was many years ago) told me that the reason he got "below" minimum wages was because the employer withhold the wages for tax, and the calculation for tax included the potential tip". I am assuming it was what you referred to as "projected tip rate". If it were true, shouldn't the wait person file a tax return and claim a refund? Do they file a tax return to report the extra income if they do earn more than they have already reported.

As far as slow night is concerned, shouldn't it be part of the calculation of total income? I helped a coworker to interview two consultants, I don't think they will get the job, and I am sorry that they have spent $20 to $30 for travel just for the interview, but this is really part of the expense working as a consultant.

I don't want to be mean and to suggest people to find another job or don't eat out when you cannot afford the tip.

Again, as of now we have been paying reasonable tip as DH had worked as a waiter more than 15 years ago. But I really think tipping is out of control.

 

[fac]

Originally posted by wmarsich
Wow some of these surprised me, but here is an idea of tipping expectations:

http://www.tipping.org/tips/TipsPageTipsUS.html

What does expectation mean anyway?

I used to get over 50% of my base salary for my year-end bonus. My life style depends on it. My mortgage depends on it. I am doing the same type of job, work harder, I (or many people in the financial industry) "expect" the same, if not more, bonuses. The market was bad, and I got less. So do I get another job? May be I should, but it does not pay as much as what I am doing even with the smaller bonus..

 

[fac]

Originally posted by crisi

They serve your table. Bill $100. You tip 15% - $15. They pay tax on the $15 (say, once again for arguements sake 24%) of $3.60. They net $11.40 - which is the fair going rate.

They serve Joe's table. Bill $100. Joe is a big tipper - $20 - they pay tax on 15% of the sale - so $3.60. They net $16.40 - a good deal.

They serve Cindy's table. Bill $100. Cindy tips 10%. - $10. They keep $6.40 - less than fair.

They serve Tom's table. Bill $100. Tom stiff them. They pay the government $3.60 for the privledge of serving Tom his meal.

At the end of serving these four tables - they have made $45. They have paid $14.40 in taxes - netting $30.60. They have paid 32% of their tips in taxes.

I am not sure how much my unerstanding of wages is correct, but I got the impression from my then BF was that their wages was withheld for the potential tip. If it were true, they have already paid tax on the $45 plus the $2 to $3 per hour from the restaurant.

 

[wmarsich]

Originally posted by fac
What does expectation mean anyway?

I used to get over 50% of my base salary for my year-end bonus. My life style depends on it. My mortgage depends on it. I am doing the same type of job, work harder, I (or many people in the financial industry) "expect" the same, if not more, bonuses. The market was bad, and I got less. So do I get another job? May be I should, but it does not pay as much as what I am doing even with the smaller bonus..

There was no signficance to the word "expectation" that I used in the above thread. Several times in this thread, posters have asked for specifics regarding how much to tip and I merely referred them to a .org site that may give them some guidelines. There was no intent meant in my choice of words.

 

[crisi]

Originally posted by fac
I am not sure how much my unerstanding of wages is correct, but I got the impression from my then BF was that their wages was withheld for the potential tip. If it were true, they have already paid tax on the $45 plus the $2 to $3 per hour from the restaurant.

I believe that is true, but my point was that they don't net $45 in tips. Well, they do, but then they see their wage decreased to cover taxes.

My understanding is that you are taxed on a percentage of gross receipts - that is the game. If you get less than that, that is your tough luck. You cannot file for a refund - but I am not a tax accountant.

When I consulted my employer - the consulting firm I worked for - paid for my time when I interviewed. Freelancers don't, but they do set their own rates. I have never held a consulting position where I didn't get paid for client interaction.