Timeshare only

[Doris1962]

on International Drive. Do you know that broker ? I let them a message two weeks ago and still no answer.

They have a lot of DVC resale at low price but we can't know which UY it's if you don't call them

thanks

 

[Doris1962]

maybe some locals know them, they're on International drive, Orlando ?

 

[disneynutz]

I would stick with the brokers who specialize selling Disney.

 

[bookwormde]

Timeshare Only is a big national time-share broker who advertises extensively. DVC is not a major portion of their business so caution as to their “expertise” would be advised. If they do not have special salespersons and settlement teams dedicated to DVC I would be extra cautious.


bookwormde

 

[ckg]

on International Drive. Do you know that broker ? I let them a message two weeks ago and still no answer.

They have a lot of DVC resale at low price but we can't know which UY it's if you don't call them

thanks

I assume you followed up in case the message got lost ... if so that is poor business practice they must not need your business. As a local that building is a rather large building right at the corner of where Sea World is. Looks like a good size operation for a real estate office. Very new and fanciful.

 

[Brian Noble]

Timeshare Only is also what's known as an "up-front fee" organization. They make their money primarily by *listing* timeshares, as opposed to *selling* timeshares.

You might still get a deal as a buyer, but if you are thinking about selling, run as far and as fast as you can.

 

[Doris1962]

Thank you

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

Timeshare Only is also what's known as an "up-front fee" organization. They make their money primarily by *listing* timeshares, as opposed to *selling* timeshares.

You might still get a deal as a buyer, but if you are thinking about selling, run as far and as fast as you can.

In my opinion you give great advice Brian Noble.

 

[zumbergc]

we emailed with The Timeshare store last week. Within the day we had an email re-ply to start the purchase of the dvc timshare.

We are still in the process with them, and we get great response... so if your looking for any attention, maybe give them a try.

 

[Dean]

Timeshare Only is also what's known as an "up-front fee" organization. They make their money primarily by *listing* timeshares, as opposed to *selling* timeshares.

You might still get a deal as a buyer, but if you are thinking about selling, run as far and as fast as you can.

In the past it has often been easier to get a better deal with those that don't specialize in DVC. With the economy and less ROFR that may or may not be currently true. Stroman, GMAC, Timeshares Only, Holiday Timeshares, Seth Nock, BocaBum, ebay, TUG classifieds, redweeks, Timesharing today all come to mind as other places to start. There are many others. Some want the comfort in knowing more about the people their working with and knowing they have more experience dealing with DVC and that is not a bad choice at all. One word of caution is that most people overpay on maint fees buying resale since DVC charges on a calendar year basis rather than the pay the dues and get the points like most of the rest do.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

One word of caution is that most people overpay on maint fees buying resale since DVC charges on a calendar year basis rather than the pay the dues and get the points like most of the rest do.

At The Timeshare Store, Inc.® the buyer will have three costs which include the purchase price, closing costs and dues. All three costs can be negotiated with the seller via an associate (Jerry/Jason/Jamie/Robert/Scot).

If a buyer is getting points for the current use year (currently 2009) they are purchasing they will be responsible for the annual dues on those points. The buyer will pay those dues in one lump sum at the time of closing and that will cover their annual dues until January 2010. In 2010 the buyer will have the option of paying them in one lump sum or monthly with Disney. If the buyer is not getting points until the 2010 use year then they would not have any dues until then.

For example, if you buy a 200 point listing and you are getting all 200 points from the 2009 allocation generally the seller is expecting the buyer to pay the dues on all 200 points.

If you buy a 200 point listing and you are only getting 100 points from the 2009 allocation then the seller is only expecting the buyer to pay dues on 100 points (seller pays dues on the 100 points they used).

If you buy a 200 point listing and you are not getting any points from the 2009 allocation but getting points starting in the 2010 allocation then you won't have to pay any dues for 2009 at the time of closing. Some refer to this listings as "stripped" contracts but they work well for some buyers. For example, the family that just returned from Disney and not looking to take a vacation again until April 2010 might find a listing that doesn't have any points coming until 3/1/2010 the perfect contract for them. They generally get it for a lower purchase price and don't have to pay dues until January of 2010. The stripped contracts don't work for everyone but we generally have plenty of listings (all types) to choose from.

Be advised that some sellers will list their properties with an advertisement such as "No annual dues until 2010" even though the buyer is getting points from the 2009 allocation. The seller is simply trying to make their listing more attractive and these listings typically sell pretty quick.

Hope that helps to all interested in dealing with The Timeshare Store, Inc.®.

Jason

 

[Dean]

If a buyer is getting points for the current use year (currently 2009) they are purchasing they will be responsible for the annual dues on those points. The buyer will pay those dues in one lump sum at the time of closing and that will cover their annual dues until January 2010. In 2010 the buyer will have the option of paying them in one lump sum or monthly with Disney. If the buyer is not getting points until the 2010 use year then they would not have any dues until then.

Jason, I understand that all aspects are negotiable therefore my comments will assume a neutral stance on the maint fees. I also know that most timeshares charge for the weeks or points. However, DVC is unique in this area and charges dues on a Calendar year basis. This means that dues paid in Dec-Jan are for Jan to Dec, not for this years points. As an example, lets assume buying an Oct contract this year with no 2008 points and no banked or borrowed points but all of the 2009 points coming in Oct. The proper neutral dues reimbursement in that situation is 3 months worth of dues for Oct-Dec. As proof of this, if one did an add on with DVC for that same Oct UY with 2009 points and no 2008 points, the dues you'd pay would be the same 3 months.

Here is a quote from an email sent by member admin to another resale broker and forwarded to me which has some relevance to the question.

No, they pay a full year of dues. 12 months from January 1 to December 31 for every year and all years thereafter. The only time they would have paid a partial year is the year they bought from us because we prorated the dues for that year from the day they purchased through 12-31. The dues were still based on calendar year which is 12 months. They are NEVER assessed based on Use Year. Just forget about their Use Year and points, that has absolutely nothing to do with dues.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

Jason, I understand that all aspects are negotiable therefore my comments will assume a neutral stance on the maint fees. I also know that most timeshares charge for the weeks or points. However, DVC is unique in this area and charges dues on a Calendar year basis. This means that dues paid in Dec-Jan are for Jan to Dec, not for this years points. As an example, lets assume buying an Oct contract this year with no 2008 points and no banked or borrowed points but all of the 2009 points coming in Oct. The proper neutral dues reimbursement in that situation is 3 months worth of dues for Oct-Dec. As proof of this, if one did an add on with DVC for that same Oct UY with 2009 points and no 2008 points, the dues you'd pay would be the same 3 months.

Here is a quote from an email sent by member admin to another resale broker and forwarded to me which has some relevance to the question.

Thank you for sharing that e-mail from Disney.

The e-mail from Disney is perfect as it states that the dues are NEVER assessed based on "use year." The dues are based on a calendar basis regardless of the use year and based on the number of points that you own. For example, in a home purchase the taxes are typically based on when you take occupancy (which in my opinion is comparable to Disney points). You are paying taxes for the days you are in the house for the year and with DVC resale purchase paying annual on the points (vs days) you get to use for the year.

 

[Dean]

Thank you for sharing that e-mail from Disney.

The e-mail from Disney is perfect as it states that the dues are NEVER assessed based on "use year." The dues are based on a calendar basis regardless of the use year and based on the number of points that you own. For example, in a home purchase the taxes are typically based on when you take occupancy (which in my opinion is comparable to Disney points). You are paying taxes for the days you are in the house for the year and with DVC resale purchase paying annual on the points (vs days) you get to use for the year.

Look at the part about the first year being prorated.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

Look at the part about the first year being prorated.

I understand that part. When you buy a property directly from Disney they will prorate the dues for the 1st year.

If a seller sells a property during that first year the new buyer will get the same prorated dues for that property (when buying from The Timeshare Store, Inc.®. For example, if a buyer bought 150 points at Saratoga Springs and only paid $217 in dues instead of $651 then when sold via resale that same 1st year the new buyers dues would only be $217 as well instead of the full $651. We don't typically get a lot of sellers that sell the same year they bought but occasionally it does happen.

 

[Dean]

I understand that part. When you buy a property directly from Disney they will prorate the dues for the 1st year.

If a seller sells a property during that first year the new buyer will get the same prorated dues for that property (when buying from The Timeshare Store, Inc.®. For example, if a buyer bought 150 points at Saratoga Springs and only paid $217 in dues instead of $651 then when sold via resale that same 1st year the new buyers dues would only be $217 as well instead of the full $651. We don't typically get a lot of sellers that sell the same year they bought but occasionally it does happen.

Look at the other end, say Feb UY 2042 for OKW. Those owners who are not extended and assuming they get to use all of their points, will owe 1 month in 2042. Assume you actually bought an Oct UY OKW from Disney in June 2040 but not getting points until the 2041 UY. In your calculations they'd owe a full years worth of dues plus 1 month for 2042 where with DVC's calculations they'd owe 3 months one year and 1 month in the other. Or on the other end, say someone added on at BLT for an Oct UY and then decided to sell before they paid any dues. If they had kept it, they would have paid 3 months this year, if you sold it, you'd expect the full years dues because "you get the points". There can be no other reasonable interpretation of the calendar year basis and Disney proves it by charging accordingly initially.

I do realize that such a system makes it a lot more complicated for you as a company and complicated is not necessarily good for doing timeshare resales. I also realizes it doesn't come home to roost until the last years of the contract.

ETA: Ask yourself, and possibly Disney, WHY they prorate year one when the points don't come until later. They WHY is the important part in this equation. I think you'll get the answer that it's because Disney charges dues on a calendar year basis, if so, end of story with no other possibly approach. I had another broker take the same stance as you when I bought my second OKW contract. He called Disney then called me back and apologized because I was correct.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

Look at the other end, say Feb UY 2042 for OKW. Those owners who are not extended and assuming they get to use all of their points, will owe 1 month in 2042.

It is my understanding that since dues are charged on a calendar basis (I agree with you on that and always have) no one will be paying any dues in 2042 (assuming they own at a resort that ends January 31st, 2042). It is my understanding that is why they did not create a January use year.

Assume you actually bought an Oct UY OKW from Disney in June 2040 but not getting points until the 2041 UY. In your calculations they'd owe a full years worth of dues plus 1 month for 2042 where with DVC's calculations they'd owe 3 months one year and 1 month in the other.

In my calculations buying from Disney they will typically prorate the dues the 1st year you purchase so I agree with you.

Or on the other end, say someone added on at BLT for an Oct UY and then decided to sell before they paid any dues. If they had kept it, they would have paid 3 months this year, if you sold it, you'd expect the full years dues because "you get the points". There can be no other reasonable interpretation of the calendar year basis and Disney proves it by charging accordingly initially.

If a seller sells a property through The Timeshare Store, Inc.® and selling the same year they paid prorated dues then the new buyer would pay those same prorated dues.

I do realize that such a system makes it a lot more complicated for you as a company and complicated is not necessarily good for doing timeshare resales. I also realizes it doesn't come home to roost until the last years of the contract.

I actually worked for Disney Vacation Club for a couple of years and I feel DVC is setup great. I think their system is the best vacation program available. At The Timeshare Store, Inc.® our transactions are typically not complicated and we strive to work as transaction brokers to get buyers and sellers to come to an agreement.

Thank you for bringing up the comment about the dues. Others might have the same questions and it is great that the Disboards provides such a place where people can gather so much information.

ETA: Ask yourself, and possibly Disney, WHY they prorate year one when the points don't come until later. They WHY is the important part in this equation. I think you'll get the answer that it's because Disney charges dues on a calendar year basis, if so, end of story with no other possibly approach. I had another broker take the same stance as you when I bought my second OKW contract. He called Disney then called me back and apologized because I was correct.

I agree that Disney does charge dues on a calendar basis. Thank you again Dean.

 

[Dean]

I agree that Disney does charge dues on a calendar basis. Thank you again Dean.

If you agree they charge dues on a Calendar year basis, then you would have to agree that a full years dues for points coming during the middle of a UY would NOT be a neutral position, by default, you cannot have it both ways. Ask yourself why DVC prorates dues the first year. There are only two possible explanations that I can think of. One is they are doing it as a sales incentive, the other is that it's because the dues are paid on a calendar year basis and not for the UY. The first is not the case except in two situations. One is for the few times they had free dues the entire year (actually only part of a year free when you think about it) and the other when you get dues backdated and the reason there is while you might get all the dues, you have less time to use them. Thus we're back to if you buy this year and get Oct points but none prior, the neutral position on dues would be 3 months worth, a full years dues would be overpaying by 9 months. This might not matter if the deal were good enough but that can be make or break for many resales.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

I am going to use four examples regarding dues and buying via The Timeshare Store, Inc.®

1) Seller owns 200 points with a June use year. Seller has 200 points coming on 6/1/09. Sells it sometime in 2009 and doesn't advertise as "no annual dues until 2009" then the seller is expecting the buyer to pay the dues on those 200 2009 points at the time of closing.

2) Seller owns 200 points with a June use year. Seller has 200 points coming on 6/1/10. Sells it sometime in 2009. The buyer for this property would start paying dues January 2010. I realize that dues are paid on a calendar basis but the seller is not expecting the buyer to start paying dues the 1st month it closes (rather January 2010) since not getting any 2009 points.

3) Seller owns 200 points with a June use year. Seller has 400 points coming on 6/1/10 (200 + 200 banked points from 2008). Sells it sometime in 2009 and doesn't advertise as "no annual dues until 2009" then the seller is expecting the buyer to pay the dues on those 200 2009 points at the time of closing. The seller is not able to get the buyer to pay the dues on the 2008 banked points but typically gets a higher selling price since has those banked points.

4) Seller owns 200 points with a June use year. Seller has 200 points coming on 6/1/11 (seller has borrowed all 2010 points for a vacation after 6/1/09 and file would not be able to close until seller checked out). The buyer for this property would start paying dues January 2011. I realize that dues are paid on a calendar basis but the seller is not expecting the buyer to start paying dues the 1st month it closes (rather January 2011) since not getting any 2009 points or 2010 points.

 

[Dean]

I am going to use three examples regarding dues and buying via The Timeshare Store, Inc.®

1) Seller owns 200 points with a June use year. Seller has 200 points coming on 6/1/09. Sells it sometime in 2009 and doesn't advertise as "no annual dues until 2009" then the seller is expecting the buyer to pay the dues on those 200 2009 points at the time of closing.

The neutral dues on that contract would be 7 months worth paid by the buyer at closing, not the entire years worth of dues. If closing were later in the year it would be reasonable to start to adjust downward due to a reduced benefit of those points.

2) Seller owns 200 points with a June use year. Seller has 200 points coming on 6/1/10. Sells it sometime in 2009. The buyer for this property would start paying dues January 2010. I realize that dues are paid on a calendar basis but the seller is not expecting the buyer to start paying dues the 1st month it closes (rather January 2010) since not getting any 2009 points.

The neutral dues on that contract would be 7 months worth starting in 2010 basically a credit to the buyer from the seller at closing for 5 months.

3) Seller owns 200 points with a June use year. Seller has 400 points coming on 6/1/10 (200 + 200 banked points from 2008). Sells it sometime in 2009 and doesn't advertise as "no annual dues until 2009" then the seller is expecting the buyer to pay the dues on those 200 2009 points at the time of closing. The seller is not able to get the buyer to pay the dues on the 2008 banked points but typically gets a higher selling price since has those banked points.

The neutral dues on that contract would be 7 months worth starting in 2010 basically a credit to the buyer from the seller at closing for 5 months. Banked and borrowed points should generally be ignored for dues reimbursement purposes. Plus as you noted, the extra points (which are limited BTW) are compensated usually by a higher pp buy in. Certainly the buyer has to look at the entire package but we're talking dues reimbursement 101 at this point.

4) Seller owns 200 points with a June use year. Seller has 200 points coming on 6/1/11 (seller has borrowed all 2010 points for a vacation after 6/1/09 and file would not be able to close until seller checked out). The buyer for this property would start paying dues January 2011. I realize that dues are paid on a calendar basis but the seller is not expecting the buyer to start paying dues the 1st month it closes (rather January 2011) since not getting any 2009 points or 2010 points.

Lets assume closing in June, 2010. In this case the dues do not start for another year, the 12 months following closing are not available. The neutral dues in this case is no dues at closing and a 5 months credit toward the dues in 2011.

BTW, that's 4 examples, LOL. As I noted earlier, there really is an easy way to settle this issue in your mind. Ask DVC WHY they prorate the dues year one of a new purchase or add on when the UY starts after closing and there are no points for the current UY. If they answer that it's because they charge dues on a calendar year basis, see my notes above on your examples, there is no other alternative. If, and only if, they say it's a sales incentive, then you have room for argument.

My 333 BWV points are Dec UY. I will pay one month of the dues associated with the 2009 points for this Dec, then 11 months on those same points in 2010.