Timeshare help!

[molly2004]

Hi! DH and I have two little boys (age 2.5). We have been considering DVC for some time. The biggest drawback to DVC for us (though it seems so easy to use) is the paucity of locations outside of WDW. So we're looking outside of Disney, mainly HGVC and MGV because they seem to be highly recommended here.

I have a few questions for timeshare veterans.

- Where did you buy and how did you decide where to buy? I just want to know what your personal experience was, something that the generic advice on TUG doesn't cover.

- Timeshares are a great way to lock into today's prices for accommodations: truth or myth? I want to be sure we're making the right decision here!

- What did you find out after you bought that you wish you had known beforehand?

- For those who have point system timeshares, did the point requirements for accommodations increase? If so, was it considerable? Are there any vacation clubs that don't increase, like DVC?

- Would you do it again?

Thanks in advance!

 

[swilshire]

One other question: can anyone offer your opinion on whether timeshares are a great way to lock into today's prices for accommodations: truth or myth?

This isn't quite as true as the salemen would like you to believe. Maintenance fees DO go up. Maybe not as fast as hotel rooms, but they do change. The important thing is to buy at a well managed resort. Poorly managed ones may charge special assessments and high annual fees. Well managed ones will be conservative, but keep a sufficient reserve to keep the resort in excellent shape.

The costs are certainly lower than trying to rent an equivalent lodging unless you can travel in the way off-season. With kids in school, you will find timesharing is a great way to beat the higher season rates.

We have been vacationing almost exclusively since 1996 in timeshares with our four kids. We spent Spring break at Fort Myers Beach, 22 nights in Hawaii in June, have Fall break scheduled at the beach on Nantucket and a week on Captiva and a week in Orlando at Christmas time. There is no way we could afford to travel like we do without timeshares. Even our long Hawaii trip was quite economical.

Sheila

 

[spiceycat]

timeshare cost with DVC is definitely better especially if you like to stay in moderates or deluxes.

values are still a better bargin than owning DVC.

I have owned since 93 so my inital costs are long gone. I can stay on property for 8 * $4.24 = $33.92 for Sun-thurs (leaving on Friday) stays in Sept, - Dec & jan -(not all times in Nov & dec). the fri & sat are what is so costly - 20 * $4.24 = $84.80 - maintence fee is $4.24 per point, the points are the other figure. those were one night only in a studio.

however with skyauction I can get a nice timeshare generally for 2 bedrooms - but sometimes for 1 bedroom - for around $216 to $250 for 7 nights. this is generally less than the owners pay for maintence fees for these places.

so lately I have renting my points more often than usually.

if you go to WDW every year and you must stay onsite. then go buy a little DVC resale contract for 100 points. every other year you will have 200 points to get you a nicer stay.

that say, I would go back to tug. Join if you are seriously so you can read the advice sections. go post on the Marriott board - I think it has an explanation of the Marriott program in that section. If not it is in the advice section.

Marriott has 2 different problem. If you buy from them either orginially or resale. and one if you buy from another resalers.

the best bargin are generally found from other resalers.

there is a price to be paid - you don't get to participate in the Marriott points program. Where you can every other year received instead of your week, points that can be used at any Marriott hotel.

Marriott is still on the week program. You buy a week and that is the week you get every year. A few marriott are more flexible - but not many. This is my opinion.

HGVC I don't know alot about - besides what I have read on tug. This seems to be a very flexible program, too.

most timeshare if you just want to stay a few nights not the week - will have extra charges if this allowed. DVC does not. Most of the time it is not allowed at all.

so I would give skyauction a try. Now it doesn't often have the 2 timeshares in NY, but they do come up once a year. I think.

the timeshares in NY are more overpriced that DVC. DVC you can get your inital money out of - most timeshares you can't.

just depends upon what you want.

where do you live? any beaches near by - a beach timeshare trades pretty good with both RCI and II.

don't buy in Las Vegas, Williamsburg, Branson, and one more I don't remember. Same situation as Orlando - too many timeshares so they aren't good traders.

 

[jeff968]

- Where did you buy and how did you decide where to buy? I just want to know what your personal experience was, something that the generic advice on TUG doesn't cover.
I don't own in Orlando but in Cape Cod. I found our unit on eBay. Definateely go the resale market to save big dollars. I paid $4K for mine, the retail is $21K.

- Timeshares are a great way to lock into today's prices for accommodations: truth or myth? I want to be sure we're making the right decision here! Nope, because the maintence fees will always rise. Most Orlando timeshares have annual fees close to $1000 now. I am able to find a rental for that price every year, and president's week.

- What did you find out after you bought that you wish you had known beforehand? Nothing, but know with DVC, your TS is not deeded so they get to take it back in 40 years. i know that is a long time but it would still bother me.

- For those who have point system timeshares, did the point requirements for accommodations increase? If so, was it considerable? Are there any vacation clubs that don't increase, like DVC? n/a

- Would you do it again? I'm very happy with our unit on the cape but we always use it and never trade so their are no extra fees.

Good luck

 

[utahkennedys]

We bought a small DVC contract last year and couldn't be happier. We only bought it to use on site every other year or so, and possibly to try Vero Beach and Hilton Head Island some day. As for other timeshares, I have researched it a ton and can't justify it...there are so many rentals out there and I figure why take the risk of owning, even with Marriott. For example, I could buy a Gold Marriott week close to home in Park City, but pay $835/year in Maintenance fees on top of my initial buy in. We have rented there for under $100/night...so why own? We can go anywhere, anytime, just by finding good deals on eBay and other sites. I would not buy in Orlando -- I see weeks on eBay for rent at all of the Marriotts for around $600 -- less than maintenance fees. Just my two cents, but I've done a lot of thinking about it. DVC rocks though! Plus, if you can't use your points, you can rent them out that year and pay for a vacation somewhere else.

 

[spiceycat]

sites you can rent from
www.skyauction.com
www.condodirect.com
www.myresortnetwork.com
www.redweek.com
www.bidshares.com

 

[cindala]

Marriott is still on the week program. You buy a week and that is the week you get every year. A few marriott are more flexible - but not many. This is my opinion.

Not so. Our week at MGV is in the Gold season, May. We traded it for the July 4th week. You can trade/exchange your week around, and the chances of this are better the further out you are from your travel dates.

don't buy in Las Vegas, Williamsburg, Branson, and one more I don't remember. Same situation as Orlando - too many timeshares so they aren't good traders.

Well, there are alot of TS's in Orlando, but what is the #1 place to go for vacation? MANY, MANY, people travel to Orlando each year because of WDW. Keep that in mind.

We purchased through Marriott Vacation Club a week at Marriott Grande Vista. It is a deeded TS that we own forever, not just 40 years, and we can pass it on to our children. The locations that are available to travel to are fantastic, and one of the reasons we purchased through them. DH just doesn't want to do the Disney thing every year anymore. He wants to see more of the 'real world'. So for us it works.

Only thing I would have done differently is maybe buy resale since the points don't mean that much to us. However, Marriott is restructuring how they distinguish between resale purchases and direct purchases in terms of trading power etc., so maybe we did the right thing in purchasing directly from Marriott.

 

[molly2004]

So do all the fees associated with trading plus maintenance fees negate your "savings?"

 

[CarolA]

Not so. Our week at MGV is in the Gold season, May. We traded it for the July 4th week. You can trade/exchange your week around, and the chances of this are better the further out you are from your travel dates.




.

But it's still a WEEK. That just doesn't work for me. I just went to Disney for 3 days using my DVC. I could not get away right now for a week and wanted to join my friends who were there. I think for me the flexibilty of being able to reserve by the day was a big selling point for DVC.

I also have looked at Marriott, they would have to do something REALLY special to keep me from buying resale however, points or no points. If they change thier structure to hurt resale buyers assume that you are going to LOSE if you ever need to sell.

To me this whole "passing it on to our children" is a mixed blessing. Are you really giving them an asset or a liablity? Will they be able to afford the mainteneace fees, the costs of vacation? Will they WANT the resort? (And if you buy from some places will the resort be worth wanting?) Will they be able to sell it or will they be stuck owing money for dues etc on something they don't want and/or can't afford? (I see some VERY nice timeshares going for next to nothing on TUG)

To me the inhertiance argument assumes a timeshare is an investment. Any reputable money manager will tell you it's not. So if you want to leave your kids something take the money you would use to buy the timeshare and put it in a money market fund. If you, like me, consider the present day value of your vacations and investment in you then this may be the way to go. Passing on a timeshare to your children isn't what I would consider a great inheritance.

 

[spiceycat]

So do all the fees associated with trading plus maintenance fees negate your "savings?"

well I count the maintence fees, exchange fees - when I do my calculations.

one reason not to buy in Orlando except for DVC. You can generally rent these timeshares for their maintence fees or less (skyauction).

DVC when you compare it to the WDW resorts - moderates and deluxes. You will save money. You can't compare it to outside - outside is just cheaper.

you can generally rent the other timeshares for less money. Hey you can even DVC for around $10 a point.

with DVC even when you rent you get EMH, DME, all the onsite priviledges. DVC member can even pool hop - and you should see the post on Resort boards on that one....

but if you really want to save money you can buy a nice timeshares for around $2,000 to $5,000 - just don't buy one in Orlando. too expensive and the maintence fees in Orlando are high - the competition demands that everyone kept their timeshares up. otherwise RCI or II will down grade you.

just NEVER buy from the developer. Even DVC is cheaper through a resaler than DVC most of the time.

 

[HeatherC]

I'm one of those people who would love to "own" a timeshare, but haven't been able to convince myself of dh that it makes sense for us. We travel a lot and always find a deal that costs me less than most of the maintenance fees. So in that sense financially it's not right for us at the moment.

One idea I do like about them is that I keep saying that when my kids are grown and we are ready to retire, I'd love to have my beachfront condo in Florida. However, we are terrible with maintenance....we just hate it. We would much rather spend our money on other things.

With this in mind, I have met a couple retired couples over the years that own at many of the timeshares we have stayed at and what they like to do is buy a timeshare, pay it off, buy another and pay it off until they have a couple months worth of vacation time. Since they are now retired and like to winter in warmer climates, they stay a week or two maybe in Florida, then go to Arizona for a month, etc.. You get the idea. People I've met that have done this tell me that the maintenance fees combined are not that much to them and they have the option to pick where they want to be for the winter. And...they have no maintenance to worry about. Right up my alley.

On one hand I think this sounds fun...since I love to see new places. But on the other hand I think I might like to stay in one place, get to know my neighbors, have a circle of friends to do things with, etc.. But I did think this idea was kind of neat...even if it isn't maybe the most fiscally smart thing to do.

Just one other way of looking at timeshares I guess.

HeatherC

 

[spiceycat]

Heather - one of my other timeshares is on the beach at Panama City beach. It is older but the new management is really working hard to make everything even better than when it was new.

the views are worth the maintence fee anytime for me.... they are just beautiful.

I brought my week for $1,500 floating - all times except summer. (with my skin I don't want to be in Florida during the summer). It works great for me. but I brought it for my nephew.... Disney was boring to him.... So I can get spring break weeks or fall (lower crowds) - doesn't matter. Love it!!!

now he almost like Disney better.

but I still love the views from this place. Right now when the resort rents it - they rent for more than my maintence fees - so it is win-win situation for me.

the problem next door they are building one of those high rises - it starting price for a 1-bedroom condo is $350,000 and then it goes up....

so beach property even in the Panhandle is rising. I would hope with the latest down turn - these would go down.

there are still bargins for a beachfront but they are getting harder to find. Also price the maintence fees - some of the beachfront property I looked at - you rent from the timeshares for less than it was charging for maintence fees.

some timeshares have one fee maintence fee - so no matter when you go you are charged the same fee - great if your week is in summer, horrible if your week is in winter on the beach. Some places are so mean that a studio charges the same maintence fee as a 2 or 3 bedroom.

so look at everything!!!!

 

[jeff968]

To me this whole "passing it on to our children" is a mixed blessing. Are you really giving them an asset or a liablity? Will they be able to afford the mainteneace fees, the costs of vacation? Will they WANT the resort? (And if you buy from some places will the resort be worth wanting?) Will they be able to sell it or will they be stuck owing money for dues etc on something they don't want and/or can't afford? (I see some VERY nice timeshares going for next to nothing on TUG)

To me the inhertiance argument assumes a timeshare is an investment. Any reputable money manager will tell you it's not. So if you want to leave your kids something take the money you would use to buy the timeshare and put it in a money market fund. If you, like me, consider the present day value of your vacations and investment in you then this may be the way to go. Passing on a timeshare to your children isn't what I would consider a great inheritance.

You could make the same argument about a house (is it an asset or a liability, will your kids be able to afford it, ect, ect). Maybe you should never own a house, just rent???

I could never give Disney all that money and all the fees through the years and know that they get the property back for free 40 years later. I've visited and stayed at disney properties many times but there is so much more to Orlando. My family and I love the marriotts (not enough to buy though) so that is where we go now.

As I said, we have our week on cape Cod. Our annual fees are $400 there. Weekly rentals on the cape are $1200 (I used to rent). So, our timeshare makes good fiscal since for us as we save $800 a year. And its deeded so our kids will enjoy it as well!!

 

[CarolA]

You could make the same argument about a house (is it an asset or a liability, will your kids be able to afford it, ect, ect). Maybe you should never own a house, just rent???

I could never give Disney all that money and all the fees through the years and know that they get the property back for free 40 years later. I've visited and stayed at disney properties many times but there is so much more to Orlando. My family and I love the marriotts (not enough to buy though) so that is where we go now.

As I said, we have our week on cape Cod. Our annual fees are $400 there. Weekly rentals on the cape are $1200 (I used to rent). So, our timeshare makes good fiscal since for us as we save $800 a year. And its deeded so our kids will enjoy it as well!!

I don't just feel this way about Disney. I feel that ALL timeshares come with a downside. You have a week on the Cape.... so a hurricane hits it the year you pass away and the resort passes on a huge special assement...or your kids move to California or Europe for work which could make the cost of the week on the cape more like $2,000 just to get there to enjoy it....

I really do think the timeshare idea is a good one, I just don't think it's an inheritance. Chances are your kids can sell you house with a LOT of timeshares chances are they can't.... Look at TUG there are people practically GIVING away nice timeshares...

I may buy some deeded timeshares to use as I get older. However, my plan is to sell them when I can't use them even if I take a HUGE loss. I would not plan to pass them on assuming that my heirs want to vacation as I do. (Not to mention that if you have one timeshare and multiple kids it may not be as pretty as you wouild like....)

 

[HeatherC]

Reading through this thread it's interesting to see the diffferent points of view. I guess timeshares may be right for some and not right for others. I think there are many things in life like this. Take a car for example. Some people will pay 30,40 or 50 thousand dollars for something that can get wrecked in the supermarket parking lot. But...that is important to them and if they can afford it, I don't see the problem. (Problem is when they can't afford it.)

I think timeshares can be similar. They may not be the most fiscally smart choice in every instance, but many people get great enjoyment out of them and like the ease of mind of knowing where they will vacation and when. So I can understand that and don't fault anyone for this.

And like Spiceycat mentioned, there are still good deals out there...you just have to look really hard to find them. If I could find a $1500 one beachfront, I might just be convinced finally!!

Like most things in life one thing doesn't fit everyone and that's what keeps the debates so interesting. That's why I love these boards...no matter what the topic, people are very well spoken and all have their point of view which they can always back up. Makes for interesting reading!!!

Heather C

 

[AJKMOM]

My sister owns 4 weeks at a Fairfield in Williamsburg, and whenever she wants to trade with any RCI resorts, the good ones are always booked, even a year in advance. She is very frustrated, not liking RCI much at all.

 

[MiaSRN62]

But it's still a WEEK. That just doesn't work for me. I just went to Disney for 3 days using my DVC. I could not get away right now for a week and wanted to join my friends who were there. I think for me the flexibilty of being able to reserve by the day was a big selling point for DVC.

I agree the flexibility with DVC is wonderful. We love it.

But just wanted to mention.....I also own at Vistana. It is a prime floating week, but I can break that week up if I choose. I just cannot use more than 2 weekend nights (Fri or Sat) over the course of a year. But for my 7 night week, I can stay 3 nights in Feb.....come back in July and stay 2 nights.....and then again in November and stay another 2 nights. Or I can break it up 3 and 4 nights over the course of 12 months. Not sure if you can do that with Marriott ?

 

[swilshire]

So do all the fees associated with trading plus maintenance fees negate your "savings?"

Just one example: We stayed in June 2005 at Marriott Custom House in Boston. I've never checked rental rates there, but my guess would be around $250 a night. You would be unlikely to find it on any of the cheap rental sites. I've worked in Boston and it's tough to find a decent hotel room for under $150 plus taxes. My cost for the week was less than $600.

Two weeks prior to that, I spent a week on Nantucket in a 3br beach cottage. June is still just off season on the island, but rentals would still be a $1500 - $2000 for what we had. We grabbed it as a last minute exchange for around $200.

I don't do a lot of calculation, but my rule of thumb is that our resorts cost us around $100 a day by the time I add in the initial purchase, annual fees, memberships to two exchange companies, exchange costs, etc. You can rent a Hampton Inn type room most places in most seasons for the $88 or so before taxes that would equal that, but you usually couldn't touch the type of places we stay in. Mind you, we have kids in school, which makes all the difference. If you were able to travel off-season, the numbers might come out differently.

My initial reason for purchasing a timeshare was to force us to plan vacations. We would let every summer slip by and never go anywhere. Now, by being sort of forced to plan ahead, we travel five or six weeks a year. We already have a week in England and a week in Scotland booked for next June. Planning the travel and manipulating our timeshare opportunities has turned into a fun hobby for me.

Sheila

 

[swilshire]

My sister owns 4 weeks at a Fairfield in Williamsburg, and whenever she wants to trade with any RCI resorts, the good ones are always booked, even a year in advance. She is very frustrated, not liking RCI much at all.

Many others are very happy with RCI. I've made several dozen trades with them in the last decade. I don't always get exactly what I want, but they do a very good job overall.

A lot of it relates to the value of your trader. Williamsburg is overbuilt and not popular year round. Unless she is trading prime summer weeks, others with better traders are probably beating her out for the weeks she wants.

Sheila

 

[TotoToo]

Although we own weeks based timeshares as well as points based if I was starting out fresh today I would buy a good deeded, points based program first and weeks based only where I had a specific resort/season I wanted and planned to return to nearly every year. I prefer the frlexibility of points so I can go more or less than a week if I prefer, adjust the unit to the exact size I need and get the dates I want with each use not be tied to a certain week.

There are many points based systems but once you say it neds to based on a deeded property the number available dwindles. DVC is out (RTU - right to use not deeded), the newer Sunterra Clubs are RTU and many of the others are as well. I avoid those as there is an unfortunate history of non-deed based systems running into trouble and disappearing. Of course some like DVC have the disappearing built into the program - just not my cup of tea. Most of the RTU's also are hard to get or even restricted from resale altogether.

One that is both large (plenty of resorts/areas to choose from), deeded (but be careful - some are RTU) and readily available on deeply discounted resale pricing is Fairfield. They have great resorts including one right on Disney roads and surrounded by Disney land (but for the purist's it is NOT "Disney") but even better are all the resorts all over the US in areas you may want to visit when Disney isn't the goal. Most are top quaility and they just seem to keep getting better. You can buy a point package that will get two-four weeks of use for around $5500 with annual fees of $800 or so in that system resale. Retail it would cost well over $24,000 or more and the fees may be higher.

There are other points systems as well but we have found FF to do everything we want at a very reasonable cost.